I am a child of the 80's(born in 81'). One thing you didn't address was the shift in the 80's away from what i'd call the "blackness" of 50s,60s,70s music. In those 3 decades the rhythm came from the blues;the 80s rhythm lost the "swing". There was nothing with the feel of "brown sugar" or "sex machine". And i see that same sound coming around again in this rebirth of 80's culture. There is a "soul revival" going on, but it is truly a revival. Few artists have a groove to their "modern" music. Brittle is in as it was in the 80s.

Sent by DH Bennett | 5:54 PM ET | 09-02-2008

Before, a backlash of posts defending the music from the 1980s pops up on the site, I want to lend support that the comments made on this this week's show were spot on, both for the praise and bashing of the music. Having grown up in the heart of Gen-X, I have been making the same arguments for twenty years. Often, I only hear the revisionism of the alternative bands or people's enthusiastic nostalgia, both make me feel so cynical when criticizing the music.

Sent by dave - colorado | 6:04 PM ET | 09-02-2008

Just finished listening to the show online. I thought it was funny and entertaining. It also provided some good time to reflect on how not-so-bad it was.
I had some other random thoughts while listening and cruising around on the site.
1. What happened to Project Song? I'm always looking for a new one, but it's been awhile.
2. In the spirit of Elections this year I think it would be cool to hear a show on political music, like 'Sunday Bloody Sunday' by U2 and "For What It's Worth", written by Stephen Stills and
recorded by Buffalo Springfield. What was the message?, was it received?, etc... most people would probably think of the 60's and 70's but there is something from almost every era. Just a thought.
I love the show, keep up the good work.

thanks for asking about project song, we have one soon ready to go with Chris Walla and J. Robbins...great tune...they are labor intensive and we have been a bit busy...but soon and thanks..
we've done political shows before to address your other thought...I'll try and find a way to do something interesting.

all the best

bob

Sent by Anthony Quinn | 6:23 PM ET | 09-02-2008

I love the 80s. 80s music indulged in fun. Fun is something that lots of music is missing these days. Why so serious?

Sent by tyler k. rauman | 6:59 PM ET | 09-02-2008

I heartily disagree. The 80's to me were like the 50's over again. The music was happy and fun, as opposed to the chaos of the late 60's and the schmaltz and excess of the 70's.
I mean, seriously, listen to the top songs of 1973-74 and tell me it was better than the 80's.
I'll give some examples:
"Having My Baby" - Paul Anka
"The Night Chicago Died" - Paper Lace
"Tie A Yellow Ribbon" - Tony Orlando and Dawn
I just vomited in my mouth a little bit while typing that. Ugh.
OK, "Wild Wild West" was awful but there were much better 80's songs before that.

Sent by Andrew D. Crews | 9:27 PM ET | 09-02-2008

Great show! The commentary had me laughing along the whole way. Thanks as always.

Sent by John Shook | 10:02 PM ET | 09-02-2008

I have to say that while I agree with what you said as far as the music that you DID cover, your choices of what to cover and not to cover seemed a little ethnocentric. To talk about the eighties music without even mentioning the birth of hip-hop, sampling, or the creation of turntable as instrument seems a little narrow-minded. I kept waiting for someone to mention Run DMC or Public Enemy for what they contributed to today's muscial culture, but it never happened.

Sent by kevin lane | 1:04 AM ET | 09-03-2008

Just caught the show online and loved every minute (despite the torture some of those songs inflicted - Hall & Oates? OUCH). I feel compelled to add to the list of all the things that were wrong with mainstream 80s music (synth, reverb, lack of bass, etc.) something my friend Mark has dubbed The BSS (Bad Sax Solo). Once he pointed this out to me it seemed that almost every other song on the charts at that time had one (and I believe every song by Rick Springfield).

Great job covering the good and bad in such a short time! I could easily have listened for another hour. My personal picks for good 80s music that I didn't hear mentioned include Violent Femmes, They Might Be Giants and Paul Simon's Graceland. And one of my favorite travesties that you mercifully avoided: Wham Rap! Thanks for a fun nostalgia trip.

Sent by Heather Brown | 2:08 AM ET | 09-03-2008

AC/DC' album Back in Blog compares suitably to anything they released in the seventies.

Sent by Rishi | 9:25 AM ET | 09-03-2008

A great, funny, entertaining show! These roundtable discussions always make me wish I was sitting there with you guys.

I'd always considered myself a fan of every decade EXCEPT the 80s... until recently. I credit this new acceptance to a combination of factors such as the revival of 80s culture that's been happening in the indie/hipster scene, the influence of friends who had always loved that era, and the permeation of 80s sensibilities in some of the new music today (i.e. Cut Copy).

Grunge (particularly Nirvana) was the moment of my musical awakening so my previous exposure to 80s had been limited to whatever was on TV or the movies, and it was all terrible.

Still, I've found myself listening to music of this era and not completely hating it (yes, even Hall & Oates). Of course there's stuff I always loved, like the heyday of Michael Jackson. Even then, there are some strange 80s eccentricities. (What's with the Chipmunk vocals in P.Y.T.?!)

Carrie made an interesting observation that I think is true. I can appreciate the 80s now in context of a wider scope of music. The 80s are a fun indulgence, but it'll never be my one true love.

Sent by laoser | 9:52 AM ET | 09-03-2008

Ok. I never comment on stuff, but I really have to put my very small two cents in on this show.

Where was the rap? Going by your comments that the 80's was right in the middle of the great music of the 70's and toning down of theatrics of the 90's, the 80's was the 70's of rap music. We were introduced to this new element and got to ride along with the formation of different styles within that one genre. We got to see rap used and actually fused with other great music forms.

I can't believe that the only thing remotely close that I heard was the Beastie Boys in the very beginning of the show.

I, too, came of age in the 80's. Sure the 80's was over the top in many ways and the music scene was ready for a major enema by the nineties, but there were some really ground breaking things going on, too. Where would rap be without the 80's? When the eighties ended, it seemed that I could no longer hear any music of different "genres" on the same radio station any more. I loved that in the eighties, I could listen to Duran Duran and the Doug E Fresh and Talking Heads and it was all fine.

Sent by Tylene | 10:42 AM ET | 09-03-2008

I don't want to defend the 80's as much as explain why 1983 is my favorite year for music.

I believe that for guys, their favorite music tends to be when they are around 13 years of age. I was 12 in 1983 and that is far and away my favorite year in music. It was also the year I discovered American Top 40 on the radio and was amazed at the different genres of music played that introduced me to many different genres of music.

I would say "favorite" is different from "influential" - when I hear others speak of their favorite time period, it typically is more because the period, such as the 60's was influential to the future of music.

1983 to me represented a variety of popular music - pop, rock, modern, new wave, country and R & B were all represented as #1 songs on Billboard. It's rare to find time periods in the rock era that had such variety, in my opinion.

Look at the list of artists that hit #1 that year: The Police, Michael Jackson, Irene Cara, Paul McCartney, Eurythmics, Men At Work, Lionel Richie, Bonnie Tyler, Dexy's Midnight Runners, David Bowie, Toto, Billy Joel, Michael Sembello, Dolly Parton/Kenny Rogers, James Ingram/Patti Austin.

While I can't say all of the above are my favorites, the number ones that year are still played on the radio today.

That said, I do enjoy every decade of music during the rock era, with the 90s probably ranking the lowest. I think what saves the 90s and this decade is the access we now have to a variety of music is so much greater than it ever was. I can find my favorite type of music without relying on the Pop charts to define what I listen to.

Sent by Tony | 11:36 AM ET | 09-03-2008

Great show. The worst single of the 1980s, but perhaps the best video, has to be track star Carl Lewis's single "Break It Up". Lewis looks like a beefy Grace Jones, and the video is filled with gym equipment, Carl Lewis exercising, hot tubs, the worst of 1980s workout wear, and bizarre moments, especially the surprise ending. To save your ears, you may just want to watch it with the sound off.

Sent by Michael Meyer | 11:45 AM ET | 09-03-2008

Great show! Your round-table editions are my favorites. Along with those wondering why no rap (save the Beasties) in your discussion, I am also wondering why not one mention of The Smiths or XTC? Though their popularity here never reached the heights it did in Britain, both these bands meant a lot to kids like me who thought pop music did not have to be brainless. In the case of The Smiths, I cannot think of another band so articulate in its expression of teenage longing and solitude. And XTC's Skylarking is simply a masterpiece from start to finish. Thank goodness for college radio and WFNX in Boston when I was growing up for playing these bands and so many others and saving me from hearing "Walking on Sunshine" 'round the clock!

we left out so much, rap being one of the biggest gaping holes. When we do these kind of shows I think of them more as a sit down with friends, and I don't plot out an agenda to make sure we cover all the bases. It is so different then reporting a story or writing an article...I think of these as jumping off points. Maybe we should do part 2, I'm not sure...Let's see how the comments fall.

Bob

Sent by Kim | 12:04 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Oh what a feeling
When you're dancing on the ceiling!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I was disappointed to hear no mention of rap music. The 80's may have done much harm but at least they brought that to the mainstream. Public Enemy, BDP, DMC, LL, Slick Rick (and many others) introduced this suburban white kid to what life was like for many urban blacks. And much of it was good music.

Sent by Richard Bolster | 12:19 PM ET | 09-03-2008

What about hip-hop? As a white boy who grew up in suburban Indiana, I was greatly influenced by albums by Public Enemy, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, and The Beastie Boys. Granted, it took me until the early 90s to 'catch on'. I still listen to albums such as 'It Takes a Nation of Millions...' today and they sound as powerful and vital as they did 20 odd years ago. I am fairly certain that if a white teen from Indiana was inspired by these albums, then so were countless others. I think that the late 80s and early 90s hip-hop revolution would make a great topic (w/ guest hosts) for an All Song Considered podcast. This is a genre that is often overlooked on the program. And although the current commercialization of hip-hop has given the genre a black eye, there are still many relevant, great hip-hop artists carrying on the tradition that started in the 80s. I can take or leave some of the other music from the time, but the hip-hop was fresh, raw, and revolutionary.

Sent by Paul | 12:49 PM ET | 09-03-2008

I was born in 84 and didn't really hear a lot of music until grunge. I didn't don't and never will like Nirvana. I do however LOVE most 80's music. I love pretty much ALL hair bands, I love Depeche Mode and the Cure even Flock of Seagulls. I love the poppy (I'll admit- bad) music from all the classic 80's movies. I had older brothers that, as the younger sister, I idolized and they loved the eighties so I think I just followed their lead but pretty much took it as my own once I got older and realized my brothers were just annoying.

I understand that the music is not as "deep" as the music since but it's fun. Nothing wrong with mindless fun now and then. Speaking of, I really need to go listen to G & R now... that was such a tease!

Sent by Lyndsey | 1:13 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Doveman cover of Hear it for the Boy is terrible.

Sent by Heather S. | 1:43 PM ET | 09-03-2008

What a fabulous show. A couple of thoughts:

I didn't choose the 80's because at age 9 or 10 in 1976, I convinced my Mom to buy me Kiss - Destroyer. Older brothers were "shock and awe-ing" their little brothers with the spectacle of KISS at home and at school. Kiss had to be the biggest influence on me ever. Then there was the first time I heard "Sultans of Swing" in the summer of '78. I found my self using my right forearm as a guitar neck while my left hand and my brain tried to figure out how Mark Knoffler was playing all those gorgeous notes. I have even more fond memories of The Who, David Bowie, and Rocky Horror being recorded on cassettes by sticking the deck up to the radio speaker. Nostalgia won out there.

If not for those reasons, I would have picked a year in the 80's-- probably '85 or '86. I started college after discovering punk rock as a sophomore in high school, and the Replacements and Husker Du were my mainstays. But then again, those bands and a million others I loved were not mainstream music.

Speaking of Minneapolis mega-bands... The one artist that was better in the 80's rather than the 70's was Prince! He took all of those overblown elements that you spoke of and made some of the most revolutionary music ever (pun somewhat not intended).

Sent by Mark C | 2:02 PM ET | 09-03-2008

I'm with Bob - Thank goodness for WFNX in Boston!! The 80's are my favorite decade for music, but I wasn't listening to Top 40. I was listening to alternative - The Smiths, The Cure, Sinead O'Connor, XTC, The Housemartins, The Violent Femmes, etc. Sadly, it seems that the 80's isn't remembered for those artist, but the cheesy tunes you highlighted on your show.

Sent by Jen | 2:05 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Great show, as always! You guys all have great insights into music that I've previously not considered.

I'm the same age as Carrie Brownstein, so I think I related most to her talking about how we can view the 80's as bad and cheesy and still really love it, knowing that what came before and after was so much better. Also, we were 10-12 years old, and it was almost as if the music were just as young and cheesy as WE were - and that's why it's fun to listen to it now, and pretend we're that young again. (For a little bit, that is.)

One of the best things that MTV and videos provided for me and my sister was a bigger view of the world - sure there was Madonna and Prince and Michael Jackson on every hour, but once in a while you'd get bands like They Might Be Giants, Butthole Surfers, Dead Kennedys, etc. - and you'd realize, hey, these bands are so interesting and not what I normally hear. That was the gift of MTV to us, in addition to showing us Yes, Peter Gabriel, Tom Petty and allowing us to trace back and find out that Peter Gabriel was once in Genesis, and Genesis was awesome back then.

Thanks again for the show - it's fun to think back and realize what CDs from the 80s that I still own (REM, mainly, TMBG and Tracy Chapman) and realize that hey, the stuff that was good back then is still good. Keep up the fun!

Sent by Nancy | 2:19 PM ET | 09-03-2008

I enjoyed the show and understand the way you all felt about some of those songs, but at the same time I feel that the theme was based upon a flaky assumption. Just because no one chose the 80s as their music-defining year doesn't necessarily mean that it was hated. My choice for the best year in music was 1994, but I have a soft spot for the cheesy, superficial, synth-rich music of the decade before. My guess is that there are a fair amount of people who feel the same way.

If I had to choose a decade for when popular music was at its worst, I would say we are living in it. Between the completely empty rap songs and throngs of reality-show based singers, I cannot find any value in the music that is played on the radio today. Sure the hits of the 80s were shallow, but there was a sort of genius about how crappy they were that can still be appreciated today. Maybe I'll feel that way about today's popular music 8-10 years from now, but it's not really looking that way.

Sent by AJ | 2:55 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Thanks again Bob,

You had me laughing out loud, I nearly splotchered.
I had to pause the podcast because I didn't want to miss a nanosecond when tepid coffee shot out of my nose.

I was introduced to Talking Heads and REM by a younger brother.
I was also fortunate enough to have a high school, yes high school station that played some great truly alternative rock music in the Reagan/Thatcher/Garfield Era:
Oingo Boingo, Replacements, Pschycodelic Furs, remember the Godfathers? We got kicked out of their show when they opened for Love and Rockets.

I cringed like you during Tears for Fear and Guns 'n Roses.
"Naive Melody" was a lullaby I sang to my restless baby girl, she's now 24, still restless.

Thanks again,

Norm Herrmann
Etowah, NC

Sent by Norm Herrmann | 3:34 PM ET | 09-03-2008

The reason people like 80's music aside from the nostalgia is that it is fun and easy to dance to. The songs are simple and sometimes music is just supposed to be fun. That does not make it good but it does make it stick around.

Sent by Molly D. | 3:43 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Thanks so much for your 80s music episode. I came of age during the 80s (i'm 36) and my favorite band is still Talking Heads. I think that, despite its awful contributions to popular music, that great decade was when the foundation of alternative/college music was built (a foundation started in the late 70s, sure). Thinking back to all the great music I discovered (from The Cure to Bauhaus to REM to the Smiths to New Order to the Pixies) I realize with so much chagrin that much of it was thanks to MTV's "120 Minutes" of all things! My sister and I used to stay up very late on, I think it was, Sundays to watch the show. It's embarrassing that MTV is to thank for much of my musical development early on but perhaps it makes a certain kind of twisted sense.

I'm not sure where The Police fall in terms of taste--regardless, they still hold a special place in my musical heart--but to me they scream 80s. I can't believe you neglected to mention them at all! They were my first concert (the GoGos opened).

BTW, great example of a good song ruined by synth and production, and revealed in its greatness by a cover: Tears for Fears' "Mad World" (covered brilliantly by Gary Jules).

Cheers,
Chad Woodford
San Francisco, CA (raised in Syracuse, NY)

Sent by Chad Woodford | 3:53 PM ET | 09-03-2008

As a 39 year old music professional I sometimes lament that I had to come of age in the 1980s instead of the 50s, 60s, or 70s. Luckily from a random review in Rolling Stones in 1986 I purchased a cassette of Husker Du's Candy Apple Grey which led me to other artists such as Husker Du, Sonic Youth, Minute Men, Black Flag, Replacements, Dead Kennedys etc. I was always repelled by the popier side of 80s music, but I have to admit that I was sucked in by Duran Duran, Psychedelic Furs, the Fixx, and other keyboard laced mullet wearing English groups. But with all that said you are still wrong about Hall and Oats. Although completely overproduced on the original recordings, stripped down these songs are brilliant pieces of rock Americana. Check out Live from Daryl's House on line for proof positive. And no I have nothing professionally to do with this site or Daryl Hall's music, just a geek fan.

Sent by Michael Cusanelli | 3:53 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Paul Simon did his best work in the 80s with "Graceland." Although, as Bob would note, the post-production at the Hit Factory did indeed indulge in some excessive digital reverb--listen to the snare drum!

Sent by Rich from Austin | 3:54 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Hello,
I loved the program. I was a young adult in the 80's (I'm 47 now) and played in a band. Although I enjoyed the show, you didn't mention many of the English bands that actually did interesting things with synths like New Order and Ultravox. New Order had the definitive synth dance song with Blue Monday. It had incredible programming and arrangement and it still sounds good today. There were also the dark, pre-Goth bands like Bauhaus, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Theatre of Hate and the Cure. The Cure especially used synths that sounded very organic when mixed with their more traditional instruments. Bauhaus had some incredible records that sounded like nothing else at the time and still hold up today.
If you stick to what was popular and on MTV, the 80s definitely sucked. But if you went a little deeper underground, like you mentioned on your program, there was a lot of innovative stuff going on.
By the way, the Talking Heads' best record, Remain In Light, had a ground-breaking sound which combined African rhythms with their quirky dance music.

Thanks for reading,
Oscar Herrera
Miami, FL

Sent by Oscar Herrera | 3:58 PM ET | 09-03-2008

The '80s: Were They Really That Bad?

If readers were judging by the list of listening samples provided ("Let's Hear it For the Boy" twice??), I'd be inclined to say so.
Like every decade, the 80's produced it's share of cultural pap but it also was the decade of Prince, Michael Jackson (when he was about music & dance) and the advent of some pretty damn good electronic music (Devo, Kraftwerk, Howard Jones, New Order, etc.). Personally, I really liked some of the "hair bands" of metal: Scorpions, Iron Maiden, early Metallica, etc. The 1980's music lacked the folk sensitivity and soul of the 70's but there really were too many innovations and contributions to ignore.

Sent by Seth Basen | 4:01 PM ET | 09-03-2008

All Songs folks,

I really enjoyed the 80s-centered show.

Of course you can't get all of the best and the worst of the 80s in a half-hour broadcast, but I can't believe no one mentioned the king of the 80s: Huey Lewis and the News. Was anyone flying the flag of the 80s more than he was? And as soon as the 80s ended, he disappeared. Man did that band suck although I have to admit I enjoyed some of it as a young teenager, but not so much as a 36-year-old today.

I saw them once in the mid-1990s in an outdoor amphitheater and I'll never forget how Huey introduced one of his hits in the middle of the show. He looked out at the (modest) crowd and said in a conversational yet downtrodden tone: "You know, some say the old dog is barely breathing." Pause. Then the party started: "But I'm here to tell you, the heart of rock and roll is still beating!!" I cringed so hard I hurt my back.

But there really was a sizeable chunk of worthwhile music. For starters:
Metallica (and the non-hair metal): especially and Justice For All--the thinking man's metal album.
Men At Work
Dead Kennedys
Camper Van Beethoven
They Might Be Giants (their first two records are BRILLIANT and sound like nothing else)
Talking Heads: Probably my favorite song of all time is Road to Nowhere. It's like we're all going to die but have a hell of a time on the way.

Special praise should be reserved for the best song of the decade: Cars by Gary Numan. Sure, it has the synths and all that but it still packs a punch. My friend's band used to do a great guitar-driven cover of it to close their show.

Another band who excelled in the 70s and did not in the 80s: Pink Floyd.

Doug Trapp

Sent by Doug Trapp | 4:05 PM ET | 09-03-2008

It was a little odd not to hear U2 mentioned in an 80s retrospective.

The program was rather long, so maybe I missed the name drop, but I'm pretty sure there wasn't any U2 played.

Of course, I see U2 mentioned in the text preceding these comments . . .

On a personal note, I can't decide whether U2 had (has) a timeless sound that transcends the 80s (which would make their exclusion from the program acceptable), or whether they perfected an 80s sound in a way that's kept the songs relevant (which would make their exclusion a crime). Witness the Edge's shimmery guitar, Bono's arena lyrics and vocals, etc.

Sent by Nathan Spears | 4:05 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Whoa Folks!

You missed some of the most talented and influential bands of the eighties that spawned the grunge and glory of the nineties! Anybody who doesn't think the 80s had anything to offer needs to flip back through their albums some of the greatest music of the last generation. From the British Isles you had the raw sound of The Jesus & Mary Chain and the pop sensibilities of The Smiths; in Olympia, WA Calvin Johnson & Beat Happening was birthing Twee Pop and K Records; and on the East Coast Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jr. and The Pixies were throwing together unique sounds that had never been heard before!

I'd say the eighties were one of the greatest periods for music of all time - it was the boiling pot of wonderful things to come... when talented bands started to ditch the mainstream and independent labels became the wave of the future. The nineties may have been the high water mark of this trend but surely you have to give the eighties its do.

Just my humble opinion :-)

Sent by Dan | 4:28 PM ET | 09-03-2008

The 80s - The Pixies and Metal.

Dear All Songs Considered,

Let me begin this short email by letting you know two things. First, that I am an avid listener and fan of NPR. Second, that I have never written to a radio, tv, or film studio to comment on content.

It seems almost a crime that all of you neglected to mention The Pixies. The influence that The Pixies had on so many subsequent bands is simply staggering. They were fresh, new and inventive.

While you did mention 'butt rock' and 'hair metal', you seemed to neglect the 'rest' of the metal scene. The 80s ushered in a huge era of metal that influenced all of heavy music to this day. The significance of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal cannot be ignored. This scene shed light on Iron Maiden with fantastic records like Number of the Beast. Bands from the 'NWOBHM' heavily influenced bands like Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, who's contribution to heavy music must be recognized. These are only a few of some truly creative bands in the heavy metal genre that made waves and moved music forward.

If the program was only about top 40, it would be easier to dismiss these bands being overlooked. However, your hosts did pick a few fringe bands. I was smiling ear to ear when you were discussing Minor Threat. I thought for sure that part of the discussion would be a gateway to talk about more fringe, or underground music.

It's not the dismissal of particular bands that's disappointing. It's neglecting a whole movement.

All the best,

-drp-

Sent by David | 4:29 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Dear Idiots ;),

You didn't talk about the best song and artist of that decade in my book. Of course I was listening to some hole-in-the-wall college stations back in the day.

The Replacements and Tracy Chapman were a couple of the few raw sounds on the charts during the worst recent decade of popular music.

But though you briefly discussed the impact of video on your reactions to the music of the 80's, you missed what for me was the standout song and video production of that decade.

Please give a listen, sans preconceptions: http://tinyurl.com/6hcnqm

For me, the sparse, tasteful instrumentation could almost be of any recent decade (other than the 80's). The video is also timeless--could be shot today.

thank you, we laughed out loud - rh

Sent by Adrian near Seattle | 4:37 PM ET | 09-03-2008

What a bunch of snobs who have totally missed the point. The eighties have mass elements of cheese and can drown you in synths, but the musicianship is significantly better than anything that came out later on the pop scene. This was the beginning of the end for people who new how to play their instruments. Yes, they experimented...just like Frampton comes alive did in the 70's. Soon after the eighties, music has been reduced to people who don't know how to play their instruments, sequencers programmed by producers and rip off hacks. The eighties offered niches for everyone. It was when alternative was really an alternative. Punk music was made by people who still new why punk was started. Underground was underground because it wasn't picked up by major labels, not like today where it's not picked up because nobody wants to hear it. Every decade has had its dose of cheesy bubblegum. I am sure that you could pick out hundreds of songs from the seventies and sixties that make you wonder what the artists and producer were thinking. I know that I have thought it for a vast majority of music produced after 1996. It was much easier to find song to relate to in the eighties. Now its all the same crybaby, fake gangsta, mommy doesn't love me garbage.

Sent by MB | 4:57 PM ET | 09-03-2008

I don't want to include the force-feeding of music played at the Ahhs! gift store in Westwood, which included David Bowie's Let's Dance, Michael Jackson's Thriller and Off the Wall, Marshall Crenshaw, Police's Synchronicity, etc

gag.

I cleared my head by listening to KCRW's Morning Becomes Eclectic, Snap (hosted by the late Dierdre O'Donahue), Reggae Beat, African Beat, and other shows.

But the vinyl I spun included Peter Gabriel, Kate Bush, Laurie Anderson, The Talking Heads, The Greatful Dead (well, not their studio work, though, so I guess that doesn't count). I listened to Paul Simon's Graceland, The Neville Brother's Yellow Moon, Pink Floyd's The Wall.

There is a pattern here. I pretty much avoided popular music. The more I heard it on commercial radio, the more I changed the channel.

I grew up in L.A. and now that I live in Northern California, thank goodness for Internet radio, because there is nothing around here I can receive that I can tolerate. Therefore, Pandora.com and Radioparadise.com, thank you!

Sent by Jerald in the Silicon Valley | 5:23 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Thanks for the 80s show, it brought back a lot of memories, good and bad.

I graduated in 1991 so I was right in the thick of the mid to late 80s music scene. Even though I grew up in the Twin Cities, I was still very sheltered in what I got to listen to, mostly Top 40. That makes me quite sad, looking back, I missed a lot that happened right under my nose in Minneapolis.

Also wanted to thank you for leaving the outro on the podcast, that was quite entertaining, sounded a lot like some of the conversations I have had with my friends over the years.

Thanks again!

Sent by Tony | 5:39 PM ET | 09-03-2008

So, like maybe you need to have someone else in your group that knows about music of color......

Sent by Amy | 5:55 PM ET | 09-03-2008

No Dinosaur Jr? No H??sker D??? No Pixies? No Eric B & Rakim? No Michael
Jackson? No JAMC? No XTC?

CMON GUYS!! The terrible long tail verb on snares is there and yes,
it's hilarious but there was plenty of great music in the 1980s.

1985 was a great year for music. The Pixies formed. Dinosaur was
released. Psychocandy was released. And 1987. You're Living All Over
Me. Come On Pilgrim.

You guys missed a whole lot of great stuff.

Sent by Colin Barrett | 6:05 PM ET | 09-03-2008

You asked for comments as to why people are so defensive of 80s pop music. I think you guys managed to touch on it, but the majority of the music just felt good. It certainly isn't anywhere near as good as a lot of other music. I wouldn't listen to a whole Tears For Fears album multiple times a week, but I wouldn't hesitate to do that with Arcade Fire.

80s music is JFK. His presidency was short, largely unsuccessful, marred by scandal and filled with gaffes, but when he spoke it strired something in us. He wasn't good at his job, but listening to him speak felt good. And with the music in the 90s taking such a quick turn to depressing themes, its not surprising the nostalgia that we feel for this music that isn't that well executed. It's chocolate. It feels nice in moderation.

Sent by Ben | 6:33 PM ET | 09-03-2008

NO PRINCE!? No mention at all of Prince? Main stream 80's music still influencing bands today? Everyone says Prince! I can't believe it.

Sent by Michael Storc | 6:35 PM ET | 09-03-2008

I really enjoyed the episode about the '80s with the retrospective discussion amongst the four music experts. I would love to hear a second part to it where you could address all of the music that the four of you mentioned at the end that you couldn't get to. I was also expecting to hear someone bring up The Cure and Sonic Youth and was a bit surprised at their omissions, although I understand it is difficult to cram a whole decade into a podcast under an hour long. So, perhaps a second installment? Hope so.

Sent by adam | 6:40 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Q: Was there anybody in the 80s who put out a record that was better than the records they put out in the 70s?

A: Tom Waits. ("Swordfishtrombones" and "Rain Dogs"...great records.)

Sent by Gareth Tucker | 6:52 PM ET | 09-03-2008

I loved the "80's worst show" and passed the podcast link to several friends and co-workers.

The fun you had making the show is infectious. I'm surprised to see so many negative posts. Have a bit of humor, and some perspective.

Sent by Blair | 6:54 PM ET | 09-03-2008

I started to write this before the end of your story when you finally gave the underground music scene a mention. The 80's were an incredibly thriving and extraordinary time for music but those who were watching Madonna at home on MTV missed it. The bad music you're talking about when videos and commerce took over music was not what was really happening in the 80's. The garage bands of the 60's, bands like the MC5 and Iggy and the Stooges gave way to punk. Punk in the late 70's was a reaction against the big over produced stuff and spawned a huge underground that had absolutely no support except by their own community. In the 80's every town all over America and Europe and beyond had people that took it into their own hands to make music, record music, promote events, booked their own tours and produce magazines about this underground scene.That's the music that was comparable to what happened in the 60's before the industry started to put looks and lip syncing above everything else. That's why they had the audacity to put stand-ins in the videos instead of the less photogenic actual singers. XTC, Joy Division, Wire, Minutemen, Husker du, Meat Puppets, REM, Sonic Youth are the bigger names I can think of and there were other smaller national acts and local acts that were really good. Grunge really began there as well as other off shoots of music that are impossible to pigeon hole. There was Hard Core, that has been documented to some extent but also a much more varied kind of music. Bands like Nirvana and later the White Stripes came out of that groundwork. They didn't appear in a vacuum. I hope in the future you can cover THAT 80's. That was my 80's and the majority of that work is evaporating. Sad that the Don Johnson "music" and that ilk will be preserved instead.

Sent by Diana from Detroit | 7:02 PM ET | 09-03-2008

I disagree that 80s music was bad, but maybe I was just lucky to grow up with a good radio station or two. Just a few observations:

- U2's "Joshua Tree" was only mentioned as an afterthought, but the music that came before was just as good (listen to or watch Under a Blood Red Sky for some awesome examples).
- Tears for Fears had a lot of good stuff besides "Head Over Heels" ("Woman in Chains," "Mad World," "Pale Shelter") even if you couldn't dance to their music - but unless you danced in the 80s you might not have known how good INXS or Duran Duran or Pet Shop Boys or Billy Idol were.
- Simple Minds was more than just music in a John Hughes film - listen to their earlier new wave-ish sound in "Waterfront" or "Up On the Catwalk."
- And let's not forget Ska! English Beat/General Public, UB40, Madness.
- Or how about Oingo Boingo ("Nothing Bad Ever Happens" and "Who Do You Want To Be?").
- And there are plenty of us who still love the upbeat music of Howard Jones - my kids are now fans after attending a concert of his this summer. In fact, I'd bet you'd find lots of those little "musical gems" in the New Wave synth music from the early 80s that you dismissed so easily (how about the instrumental "DNA" or "It's Not Me Talking" or "European" by A Flock of Seagulls).

Musical tastes are personal. Personally - and many will find it heretical - I don't like the Beatles. I finally grew to appreciate the lyrics of Tracy Chapman's "Fast Car" but people roll their eyes when I admit that. I didn't see what was so great about your song by The Replacements and couldn't understand your obsession with bands from the 70s like Black Sabbath or the Eagles ("Hotel California" makes me want to kill myself as does just about anything by Pink Floyd!). But that's the great thing about music - there's something for everyone - and the 80s had plenty of variety, maybe more than the decades before or since. In my opinion it was a breath of fresh air after the 70s. Granted, the hair and clothing styles were over the top, but at least the clothes they wore were clean - unlike the 70s and 90s!

Sent by John (class of '85) | 7:21 PM ET | 09-03-2008

As I'm pretty much the same age as Carrie Brownstein, I lived through the decade of 80s music. It was great to listen to your discussion - and all of the giggles.

Anyway, the selection of songs is some of my favorite songs of the 80s and my least favorite songs of the 80s. My babysitters loved Talking Heads, while I was more of a Tears for Fears kid. I do love We Built This City by Starship but I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area in the 1980s. The entire Footloose soundtrack is a hoot. I love Fast Car by Tracy Chapman. And Paradise City by Guns and Roses - brings back memories from when my husband and I were in graduate school at Michigan in the early 2000s. We had to drive 30 miles to our house in the country from Ann Arbor, we'd put this song on just so that we hit the really curvy part of the road right when the thrasher part of the song came on. Who knew that I would do this to Paradise City when it came out when I was in 8th grade! What a classic from the 80s.

Thanks for the exposure on the 80s music. 90s should be next - some great highs and lows in that decade as well.

Sent by Annie Dowling | 7:39 PM ET | 09-03-2008

When my friends and I started getting satellite radios, they all started gravitating towards the 80's channels. I was confused, because my main memories of the 80's, as I have often proclaimed to my friends, was "Let's hear It for the Boy" on an endless loop.

Your show made me want to defend some parts of the 80's. It was sad that you didn't mention anything about rap - Sugarhill Records with the house band of Doug Wimbush, Keith LeBlanc etc., Profile records, Tommy Boy records, Def Jam, etc. The indies were where it was at in all genres. Rap n the 80's was GREAT, there was a new style almost every week. De La Soul, Public Enemey, 3rd Bass, LL Cool J, Beastie Boys, Grandmater Flash, etc.

On the rock side, there was Sonic Youth's EVOL, the whole SST records crew (Meat Puppets, Minutemen, Husker Du), The stuff coming out of Chicago, etc.

Hey, ever heard of a guy named Prince?

You touched on the Post-Punk and the New Zealand scenes, but what about Joy Division/New Order, Factory records, Rough Trade, all of the great British stuff making the rounds?

Ever heard of The Clash? Sandanista maybe?

Didn't "Remain in Light" come out on the 80's? Atomic Dog, lots of George Clinton solo stuff that was great.

You guys didn't mention any black artists except the Bad Brains - who were one of the greatest bands ever - but weren't exactly playing R & B.

What about Country Music? Merle Haggard put out some of his best work in the 80's, when a country artist was still releasing 3 albums a year. Then there's Dwight Yoakam, Randy Travis, Ricky Skaggs, George Strait, Steve Earle, Lyle Lovett, George Jones, LOTS of country artists doing their greatest work in the 80's.

What about reggae? Sly and Robbie, Black Uhuru, Burning Spear, Steel Pulse...

The mainstream stuff in the 80's was 90 percent garbage, but just like any era the mainstream stuff is rarely the great stuff. Just look at a singles chart from 1968 to see Englebert Humperdink duking it out with the Beatles.

Lee Harris
host of The Lee Show Tuesdays 9-11 Pm
www.wrir.org

Sent by Lee | 7:42 PM ET | 09-03-2008

One of my favorite albums is from 1985, Kate Bush's "Hounds of Love." In the last 23 years I must have listened to it hundreds of times, and it always sounds complex, fresh, original, and beautiful. I get new meanings from her lyrics now, in my forties, that I did not understand in my twenties. Oh, and I felt that my love of this album was endorsed when, in 1990, a well-known music reviewer put it on his list of top ten albums of the 80's.

Sent by Pam | 8:19 PM ET | 09-03-2008

1984 alone was one of the best years in music. Period.
There were breakout albums across genres that will go down in history - here are a few

Purple Rain
Thriller
Born in the USA
Talking Heads
Tears for Fears
the return of Tina Turner
The Cure
U2 (or actually 84 might have been the year between New Years Day and Unforgettable Fire)
The English Beat
Madonna's debut album
Cyndi Lauper

Not t mention the surge of alternative New Wave and Punk that filled the airwaves. I couldn't disagree more. Maybe the NPR listeners are still a majority of weenie babyboomers.

Sent by stefanie | 9:42 PM ET | 09-03-2008

You are totally right about the main issues of the 80's. Bad synths and drums really dehumanized music. The bad production created music that grates and is hard to tolerate repetitively. And your discussion of nostalgia and context was also right on. You mentioned that some music was actually good, but basically claimed that nothing really seminal came out.

Well, you made one major, obvious ommission in the discussion:
What about Paul Simon's Graceland album?? It had wonderful, dynamic human performances (not synths!), it popularized world-fusion nearly on its own, and it remains today one of the very greatest albums of all time. And it's not an obscure title you found out about later. It was #3 Billboard album in 1986.

Update: I see someone else mentioned this one, but I actually wrote this to the e-mail, and was asked to add to the blog comments, so here it is.

Sent by Aaron | 10:57 PM ET | 09-03-2008

1. The 80's had some poor music. I nominate anything by Sheena Easton, especially "Morning Train."

2. I just think that "Brilliant Disguise" is a brave song that an artist made while his marriage was breaking up:

Well I've tried so hard baby but I just can't see
What a woman like you is doing with me.
So tell me what I see when I look in your eyes
Is that you baby or just a brilliant disguise

3. While I don't like "We Built This City," I just don't think it's the worst. Sheena Easton and the Footloose songs and maybe some Van Halen seem much more annoying to me. Not so much a defense of Starship as "it's as bad as..." statement.

Sent by NJTom | 11:02 PM ET | 09-03-2008

Dianna from Detroit, you hit the nail on the head. The underground scene in the 80s was rich! Minutemen and H??sker D??. These were fantastic 80s bands that seemed to exist in a separate universe from much of what was played on the radio.

Sent by Stephen Randall in Denver | 12:34 AM ET | 09-04-2008

C'mon, are you kidding? I love All Songs Considered, but were those really the best songs you could pick from the 80's? I suppose I wouldn't be too impressed with the musical fruits of the decade, either, if the range were as narrow as Hall & Oates to Don Johnson to Springsteen (as great as he is). You mentioned hair bands, and the best you could come up with was Guns 'n Roses? Haha, I know you're pressed for time and can't choose one of everything, but let's examine some of the finer points of the 80s' legacy, many of which have already been pointed out by astute posters above:

Punk, New Wave, hip-hop, electronica, and world music are just a few things which developed (or audibly shifted into something new) in the 80's. Great artists such as Kate Bush, Paul Simon, The Cure, The Ocean Blue, Annie Lennox/The Eurythmics, Fishbone, the (highly debated) return of Pink Floyd, Cyndi Lauper, Run DMC, Bruce Hornsby, Madonna, Dire Straits, The Smiths, Tom Petty, well...you get the point.

I could go on and on, but the point is that the voices of all of the above can be heard in much, if not most, of the music today. If influence isn't proof of greatness in art, I don't know what is. Granted, many of the decade's treasures are hidden on b-sides or in obscure soundtracks, but what a treasure trove it is! The 80's clearly rule, dude. ;)

Sent by Julia G | 2:28 AM ET | 09-04-2008

I also agree with the above. I don't think the footloose soundrack represents anything memorable about the 80s and has more to do w/ Hollywood in the 80s than music.

why didn't you list. New order, siouxsie and the banshees, the smiiths - my god, the smiths. yes. come on

Sent by stefanie | 6:34 AM ET | 09-04-2008

Well done with the 80s show! I graduated high school in 88. Man, I didn't realize the hits were so non-stop miserable until you played the songs you played today. How did we get it so wrong?? I have to ask though, where was the rap / hip-hop? You started off with Beastie Boys so I thought you were going to play some. Where was Public Enemy? How about Violent Femmes, Pixies, and Tom Waits?

Thank you for playing Talking Heads. Great pick.

As you mentioned, the 80's did seem like the place good 70's bands went to die. Ah well. I will always have a fondness for my first 45... Men At Work's Down Under. Classic 80's!

Keep up the good work!

Sent by Ozzo | 7:02 AM ET | 09-04-2008

Off of the top of my head, Devo, Peter Gabriel, and The Talking Heads all existed in the '70s and in my opinion got better in the '80s.

Also, I am only 26 minutes into your podcast but no mention of Hip Hop/Rap?

I thought you were going to badmouth "Wild Wild West" by Kool Moe Dee for a minute there. Had that been the case, then I would fight you.

Good day,
Matt G.
Southampton, UK

Sent by Matt G. | 7:42 AM ET | 09-04-2008

Thanks for the show. I'm a big fan, usually. But, I had a hard time hearing the music with which I grew up being laughed at, for the most part. Synth, over-production, whatever--I love this stuff! I also love a good bowl of ice cream. I couldn't live on the stuff, but damn if it doesn't taste like heaven at the time.

You ended the show with mentions of all sorts of stuff you did not cover in the show, which all led me to recall what a boon the 80s were to one-hit wonders. Hardly a week goes by that I do not listen to a few songs from one of the five discs in the Living in Oblivion collection (I'm sure I got this with my BMG membership back in the 90s; it's a collection of 80s one-hit wonders, and even includes the Spanish version of Toni Basil's "Mickey"--"Oh Mickey, como estas, como estas..."). If you decide to do a show like this again, you should give a nod to the plethora of one-hit wonders. I'd love to hear Dexy's Midnight Runners' "Come on Eileen" find its way to All Songs Considered.

Also, I notice the picture of Twisted Sister on the web page is most prominent; yet, no mention of them in the show. You'll use their over-the-top look for promotion, but not give "Smokin in the Boys Room" a listen?

Sent by Chris | 10:03 AM ET | 09-04-2008

Hey, I'm an NPR listener, and I think that the 80's had GREAT music! It did have quite a bit of schlock, but what decade doesn't? I was definitely a metal chick (Guns, Metallica, Ozzy, King Diamond, Motorhead, Priest, you name it, I loved it - except for bands like Great White and Winger), but also loved Tracy Chapman, R.E.M., U2, Janet Jackson, Stevie Ray Vaughn...

I think whoever says that 80's music was bad was only listening to pop radio and New Wave (what's worse than Katrina and the Waves, or Michael Jackson, or Wham?).

IMHO!

Sent by Jessica Cutts | 10:06 AM ET | 09-04-2008

The songs not considered on your show were rap. Yes, it "debuted" in 1979, but expanded across the nation and developed in the 80s. I was 17-18 in 1988-89. My memories contain Public Enemy, KRS-One, De La Soul and Yo! MTV Raps

It was a time in which rap started to broaden its message and flow about all aspects of life, not just catchy sing-songy rhyme. Eightys rap laid the groundwork for later groups like NWA and Tribe Called Quest. Pop music, to this day, can't shake the influence of eightys rap.

Please re-consider the 80s with rap.

Sent by Portia | 10:19 AM ET | 09-04-2008

The podcast and above comments are interesting...I think people forget that there was much more music segregation in the 80s than in ensuing decades. Top 40 stations only played pop, "rock" stations only played hard rock and metal, "urban" stations only played R&B and this new rap thing - and nothing really bled over. I listened to WHFS in DC in the 80s - when the station would come in on my crappy clock radio - but none of that stuff (what we think of as "the good stuff" now) really made it onto the pop charts. I never expected to hear The Smiths, The Cure, New Order, etc. on Top 40 stations.

That said, there was some great pop music in the 80s as well, as people above have mentioned. I finally came out as a non-ironic Journey fan not too long ago. And Michael Jackson and Prince's influence can't be overstated.

The 70s and 90s snobbery on the podcast amuses me, though, because you can find just as much crap from those decades as from the 80s. And much of it - just like Don Johnson and Deniece Williams - was on the Top 40 charts.

Cheers,
Martha

Sent by Martha | 10:23 AM ET | 09-04-2008

I think that there is a good case that the worst music of the 80's is worse than any other decade. But you can also argue that the best music of the 80's is better than any other decade as well.

If having the best music of the 80's means having to have the worst music of the 80's, I'll still take it.

By the way, "When Doves Cry" is often lauded for the innovation of a complete lack of a bass track, so you might want to ease up on the DX7 bashing a little. I actually think that the reason that much 80's Top 40 material was light on bass was that the average car stereo and boom boxes back then didn't have the same capability to handle true bass content compared to what you see today.

Sent by Wilbur Pan | 11:08 AM ET | 09-04-2008

I haven't read everyone's comments here but it does seem that this particular program overlooked the fact that much of what has happened in both popular, and avante-garde, or independant music, in the decades following the 80's found its inspiration in music of the eightites. Many listeners have already touched on the birth of rap, but I do need to take a moment to plug some of my favorites. Can me have a moment's silence for Slick Rick, Kool G Rap, and Eric B & Rakim please?
But its not just hip hop that owes much to the eighties, would the 90's alternative music explosion (or say Nirvana)have happened without, oh I don't know... The Misfits, Minor Threat, Black Flag, Bad Brains,the Melvins, Jane's Addiction, most of waht was released on SST, etc, ad infinitum ad nauseun. Could there have ever been say a Marilyn Manson, had there not first been Wax Trax?
And,as a final note, it is worth mentioning that most modern electronica, dj work, or dance music owes a great deal to the eighties, both to pioneering dj's and those horrible, horrible, synths. The more self aware dj's (Cut Chemist and DJ Shadow spring to mind first here) readily acknkowledge this.
Yes, most 80's pop music was regretable. The underground, however, remained vibrant, diverse, and proved ultimately to be highly, highly influential.

Sent by Sebastian Pacheco | 12:18 PM ET | 09-04-2008

Also in response to the challenge of finding an artist whose 80's output was better than their 70's work: Tom Waits.
Personally, I don't think that either his persona or music were fully developed until the release of Swordfish Trombones, and really, let's face it, Rain Dogs is just one of the best albums ever irrespective of one's personal musical tastes.

Sent by Sebastian Pacheco | 1:55 PM ET | 09-04-2008

Just listened to the show online. I think the 80s were not really that bad. Yes you had a lot of over the top music combined with videos on MTV. I'd forgotten about the Don Johnson record. This was the business model that records companies followed, but there was still really great music out there. Like others I'm surprised no one mentioned U2. 1984 marked the band's teaming up with Eno and Lanois and they produced a very different sound compared to their albums before. I graduated high school in 1987 and Joshua Tree was all I ever heard in the dorms my freshman year of college. My wife (a total pop 80s person) just listened to Joshua Tree two months ago and was very impressed. Thanks for mentioning Peter Gabriel as well. I listended to the "So" album an entire summer in 1986. The early 80s were the time I started really listening to music and I went into the progressive rock genre of Rush and Yes. Around the mid 80s I expanded my horizons and listened to Tears for Fears and saw REM a couple of times in concert. Other friends listened to the Smiths, the Cure, Run DMC, the Minutemen, and 7 Seconds. As far as artists who made good music in the 70s and didn't in the 80s I offer David Bowie's "Let's Dance" album. Very catchy, good songwriting ("Blue Jean" with Iggy Pop), great musicians (Stevie Ray Vaughn on guitar). Thanks for playing the Guns and Roses and Tears for Fears. I think every teenager who had crush saw that Tears for Fears video and saw themselves in it.

Sent by Tom Caldwell | 2:59 PM ET | 09-04-2008

Wow I love synth. Piano is better but synth is great in its own way. I think the influence of video games shaped the love of synth. You can see that influence today in bands and DJs that imitate or actually use those early Nintendo sounds (eg Anamanaguchi, RAC and Sportsday Megaphone).

But even if you hate synth, there is much to appreciate from the 80s. Every song on the Violent Femmes self-title album is fantastic. And no mention of the Pixies? The Cars had some fantastic albums and great production too. Rolling Stones were still rolling out qualitiy tunes. Squeeze. The Eurythemics. Elvis Costello. They Might Be Giants. And let's not forget the Clash!
My point is not that the 80s were superlative. Rather, I am uncomfortable with the idea that any genre or time period was inherently band. Mainly because the passion for music and art is part of every community and time---indeed, it is built into the very fabric of culture. And within that culture there will be a spectrum of quality. I gaurantee that there will a generation that looks back at the times we live in now with disgust and cynicism, as civilization continues to reinvent itself.

Sent by daretoeatapeach | 3:51 PM ET | 09-04-2008

Nice show! I love these round table discussions.

Things worth mentioning to me right off the top of my head: rap (of course), Michael Jackson's Thriller and The Police which are all definitely a huge part of great music in the 80s.

I think it's interesting that a lot of indie-electronic artists today are using a lot of these sounds that we all hated in the 80s to make music that people actually love now. I can't say that I'm a huge fan, but I can see why some people are fond of it. I wonder what the big difference in production is... just reverb?

Sent by Beth | 4:01 PM ET | 09-04-2008

Where's the metal? Glad you covered the DC hardcore scene, but no mention of any Heavy Metal? GnR was as close as you got, and they're not even Metal. What about Metallica's first 3 albums? Early Megadeth? Iron Maiden and the whole New Wave of British Heavy Metal scene, Venom, Motorhead? That's just mentioning a few. Maybe you have to be a metalhead to appreciate it, but in the context of Metal, alot of seminal and transformative artists and albums came out in the 80's.

Sent by DC | 5:39 PM ET | 09-04-2008

Dear Bob,

I was just astonished at the insensibility of your podcast on the 80's. I must disclose that, (i) I am a fan of the podcast, and (ii) I have a very very soft spot for the 80's. And in general I agree with a lot of what was said, mainly the production excess, but there was just so much left out of the podcast. Luckily Carrie Brownstein remembered the Go-Betweens, thanks for that.
I realize you cannot mention every single thing, but is there really an excuse for forgetting The Smiths? Wasn't that a pivotal time in pop music history? The Smiths were just timeless and I believe that their influence has been enduring.

And then there was the whole group of very poppy bands that have definitely influenced very directly a lot of great music made in the earlier years of the 2000's (namely under the banner of electronica, electro or electro-pop). Just to name a few:
-Depeche Mode
-Soft Cell
-New Order
-Bronski Beat
-Yazoo (or Yaz in the US)
-D.A.F.

Especially relevant, I believe, are Depeche Mode. I think that they really show how the production excess of the 80's has resulted, sometimes, in magnificent songs that survive the test of time. Actually, Depeche Mode used all the excesses of the 80's to move the field forward, innovate and create new avenues of sound that only rarely happen. Good examples are the albums Music for the Masses (1987) and Violator (1990).

Finally I would like to mention some of the great music from the post-punk/goth movement. Although I recognize, a lot of it hasn't aged very well:
-Joy Division (1979 and 1980)
-Bauhaus
-Siouxie and the Banshees
-Gang of Four (briefly mentioned by you)
-David Sylvian
-Echo and the Bunnymen
-This Mortal Coil
-Dead Can Dance
-Cocteau Twins
-The Cure
-Psychedelic Furs

All and all, I love the podcast and I guess that that was the reason that prompted me to write this email. I just expected to at least have The Smiths, New Order, Depeche Mode, Joy Division and Soft Cell acknowledged.

By the way I was born in 1978 and must admit that Music for the Masses by Depeche Mode changed my life (at 10).

Armando



Sorry Armando, we had too much fun and got carried away.
We obviously know we left out a lot, but then again we are glad to hear folks tell us about the bands we didn???t mention that meant a lot.
We didn???t do a thorough job, but had we done a better job we still would have left out a hundred bands.

all the best

Bob

Sent by Armando Geraldes | 6:37 PM ET | 09-04-2008

No Police? No Prince?

Sent by JM | 7:57 PM ET | 09-04-2008

What a horrible show. To be honest I didn't make it through the entire thing. Listening to the snobbery literally made me sick to my stomach. Someone mentioned this earlier, and I agree, that you could pick music for the 70s and 90s that is just as bad. Anyway, I don't post many comments but, wow, I just had to say something. All Songs was already starting to bother me with the constant Bon Iver mentions, now, I don't know. I just wanted to say how disappointed I am. First they cancel the Bryant Park Project then this. If NPR really wants to attract younger listeners, they're doing it wrong.

We were just trying to have some fun with it. Any perceived snobbery certainly wasn't intentional. There's a ton of great music to love from the '80s and we tried to include as much as we could in a very short time. -- rh

Sent by molly | 8:10 PM ET | 09-04-2008

This episode had me rolling! I was in high school and college during the tail end of the 80's (graduated college in 90) so I definitely came of age all through the decade.

Props to Carrie for giving the Replacements their due. I grew up in suburban Detroit and commercial radio was plagued with "hard" rock of the worst kind or really bad R&B. I was exposed to the brilliance of the 'Mats by a friend's older brother and there was no looking back after that. All my Van Halen and Whitesnake and ZZ Top (bad, MTV era) albums, yes ALBUMS, paled in comparison to the raw energy of the Replacements' "Let It Be." I even had the high privilege of seeing them live in Ann Arbor when Bob Stinson was still sloppily playing lead guitar. And "Tim" is nothing short of brilliant lyrics and memorable hooks. In fact, the Minneapolis scene of the Replacements, Husker Du and Soul Asylum was putting out a vibrant and original voice to combat the schlock found on MTV.

Other seminal moments from my musical awakening:
1) Hearing the Talking Heads' "Swamp" in my cousin's bedroom. It was like all the possibilities opened up... "you mean you're allowed to sing like that and be weird?"

2) The first time I heard the Pixies was a friend's copy of Surfer Rosa; mind blowing for the time and still holds up to anything, at any time.

How could you not mention the Police? Prince? The Cure? For all their commercial success, they still made some amazing music. Same goes for Jane's Addiction (since '85). Same goes for Uncle Tupelo (since '87) since that group spawned both Son Volt and Wilco.

I'm sure you're getting many passionate emails from listeners. I'll go on record as saying this was a great podcast and we indeed built this city on rock and roll. Still laughing about that one...

Cheers,
Tim

Sent by Tim Letscher | 9:06 PM ET | 09-04-2008

Thank you for this episode. I greatly enjoyed it. I just want to make three points.

First, when discussing major musical developments during the 80's, there were two things you missed: 1. The birth of hip hop and 2. The birth of house / electronic dance - music. Both were ground-breaking, and by the end of the 80's, it was already evident that these styles were going to have a huge influence.

Second, among artists at their high point during the 80's, there is of course Prince (Purple Rain, Sign O' the Times) and Michael Jackson (Thriller, Bad), yet they were not mentioned.

Third, I agree that much 80's music sounds sterile because of the use of synthesizers, but that may have been in part because they were digital. By the beginning of the nineties, most musicians agreed that the old analog synthesizers sounded warmer, and the manufacturers in turn responded to that.

Best wishes, and please continue making great radio!

Roger

Sent by Rogier Landman | 10:24 PM ET | 09-04-2008

For me, the 80s had a huge musical moment: the birth of the CD. Hearing about Springsteen's CD-only box set made me buy a CD player a few months before and started me being a music collector instead of just drafting off my older brother's collection. So regardless of what music I was into, I was thinking about it differently. OK, OK: full disclosure, my first two CDs was a Vangelis import and Simple Minds.

Also: Stop Making Sense on film. HUGE.

Sent by Doug Thomas | 12:52 AM ET | 09-05-2008

I finally got to listen to the podcast of your show .... guys, thanks! I had a GREAT morning at work listening to you!!

Just wanted to put in my two pence worth ....

I'm 31 this year ... so I grew up in the 80s. I gotta say, my favorite type of music is 80s that's been remixed to techno ...

What I loved about the music of the 80s is that it's bouncy, fun loving, and MOVING!! There are a few songs that you wanted to slit your wrists to, but for the most part, you moved! Even now when you listen to alot of music for the 80s, you can't sit still! I'll play something real off the wall from the 80s here at work and everyone has an opinion, either it sucked and they remember what they were doing at the time, or tellin me to turn it up so they can relive a bit of their childhood.

Take Stairway to Heaven for instance.... people are either wanting to slit their wrists, or falling in love ..... not much in between. People galvanize about the music of the 80s. Everyone remembers the first video they saw ... or things like Soul Train. Falco was GREAT! briefly .... lol.

Wish I could hear more of you guyz, I can only get podcasts here at work!
ROCK ON!!

"Not all who wander are Lost..."

~Elden K. Aedui~

Sent by Elden K Aedui | 8:47 AM ET | 09-05-2008

Let's see..............I graduated High School in 81', graduated College in 86' and was Married in 89'. I'd say that puts many of my formative music years smack dab in your latest podcast. Although I found many of the comments LOL funny and I did find myself singing along in the car, I felt like I needed to take a shower when I got home. I drank a glass of JD and played an old John Lee Hooker tape that was in my garage.

It's amazing how much webspace is devoted to the 80's songs ( i.e., http://www.afn.org/~afn30091/80songs.html )

Thanks for not playing "It's Raining Men"......I would have driven off a bridge.


I always look forward to your shows and the live shows from the 9:30. My kids are sick of hearing the three song Wilco Sampler I play over and over.

Thanks,
Murph

Sent by Murph | 9:07 AM ET | 09-05-2008

I was in High School and 80's music forced me away from the mainstream music. It seems to me that was when the music industry really began to take (or regain) control over what we all heard.

I appreciated your inclusion of Tracy Chapman, but in a similar way, there was a little outside the box bubble of blues music. Robert Cray's Strong Persuader was huge for me... but also the Fabulous Thunderbirds & Stevie Ray Vaughan.

I don't think there has been another little genre bubble since. Maybe a few outside artists make it to the charts, but it seems the industry has had pretty thorough control since.

Good riddance... There's a reason why audience is slipping so bad...

Sent by Scott | 9:09 AM ET | 09-05-2008

Hey Bob,
>
> I just finished listening to the 80's show and the show before it.
> They were great. I especially liked the show examining how bad the
> 80's were. Personally, I thought they were fine but I found a lot of
> the same 'good' music your panel did. I kind of cringed with you on
> the Guns 'n' Roses track. I had never heard some of the tracks near
> the end of the show. Thanks for bringing great music to us each week.
>
> I listen to your show to find out what is happening in quality music
> but it's nice to look back now and then. You all did a great job in
> exploring the past. I would like to see more shows like this one.
>
> Your loyal listener,
>
> Tom Beckman

Sent by Tom Beckman | 10:25 AM ET | 09-05-2008

The show was definitely incomplete (as other posters have said) -- but sparked a few thoughts about why the 80s have a bad rap.

From the postwar birth of 'popular culture' as we know it up until the early '90s, the mainstream culture and the "counterculture" (or countercultures) existed in parallel. If you weren't seriously interested in music, you mostly got exposed to the former. If you were bitten by the bug and needed to seek out interesting, challenging, creative music with depth, you dove into the counterculture. There were some notable crossovers, of course, and you might say the Beatles jumped from the one thread to the other sometime in the middle of their career, but by and large much of what was popular was not very good and vice versa.

This continued pretty much up through the early '90s with the commercialization of "alternative" as a sound ("alternative is so mainstream" -- Jim's Big Ego) and then the rise of the Internet, which killed this structure once and for all.

When we think back to the '50s, '60s, and '70s, we don't think about the "mainstream / popular" music of the time, the products of the white-bread / sappy / novelty / brainless majority culture, since that stuff long since faded away. Instead we think about what was at that time part of the "counterculture" -- which was absorbed into mainstream culture as the decades went by.

But the '80s are too recent -- and we all remember them. And those of us who grew up then were exposed to the "brainless mainstream" culture up until we discovered that there was something else, something wonderful, lurking underneath. (For me that was '86.) So when we think of the 80s, the stupid stuff comes to mind first and crowds out the interesting music that continued to be made all through the decade.

That was what happened in your discussion, too. There were flickers of references to great things that were percolating (Bob, I can't believe you'd never heard The Bats before then!), but everybody's first reaction to "the 80s" was Starship and its ilk.

If you ask me, a decade which saw the rise of hip-hop, rap, sampling, home 4-track experimentation (think They Might Be Giants' first album) gave us more of the antecedents of our current culture than any other.

Sent by Mark Hessman | 11:54 AM ET | 09-05-2008

Boy, you guys nailed some bad ones there for sure. I also agree with most of the "good" 80s tunes that you played on the show.

However, I was a little disappointed with the way everyone on the show dismissed the synthesizer as simply "bad" and "cheesy". Granted, the synth was overused and abused in the 1980s. It's also important to note that the digital synthesizer was a brand-new instrument and, like the Moog of the 60s, was used for good AND evil, but was fresh at the time--sounds never heard before. I came of musical age in the 80s and at the time I wasn't really into the synth (or the drum machine for that matter), but I think you missed an opportunity to highlight some artists that were trailblazers with the synth sound or used it in creative or at least tasteful ways. Submitted for your approval (or not):

New Order
Thomas Dolby
ABC
Pet Shop Boys
OMD
XTC
Eurythmics
Michael Jackson/Quincy Jones (pre-"Bad")
Prince

Now, before I get flamed as an 80s-synth-apologist, I'd like to point out that I'm not a fan of all of the bands I listed above. Whether or not you like synth or the bands that used it, it should be acknowledged that these artists produced and pioneered sounds that have endured and/or inspired modern electronic, dance and pop music.

On a side note, I was in downtown Las Vegas a couple years ago and heard a band playing "We Built This City" on a stage set up on the street. I remember thinking, "Who in their right mind would cover that song?" When they finished the song--to mild applause--the lead singer called out, "Thank you! We're Starship! Good night!"

Sent by Greg Snyder | 12:35 PM ET | 09-05-2008

Dang... just was working through all the comments and Adrian near Seattle RickRolled us all. I feel dirty now.

Sent by Tim Letscher | 3:53 PM ET | 09-05-2008

Hey everyone,

What I found to be most offensive about 80's music, aside from the awful production quality, was the theater of it. I grew up in the mid- to late 1990's, when artists like Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock, Blink-182 and Eminem were enjoying the height of their popularity. At the time, I didn't really place the music I was listening to into any kind of broader cultural/historical context, due in large part to the fact that I was 12. But in hindsight, I feel that the music of my adolescence and the music of the 1980's have something very important in common, and that is a lack of authenticity.

I know that describing any music or art as "authentic" or "inauthentic" is kind of arbitrary and rather difficult to explain. But whenever I listen to 80's music, as well as the music that defined my early adolescence, I get this overwhelming feeling that I'm watching a play, albeit not a very a good one. In fact, it's probably more like an action movie. At any rate, it's as if the music I'm listening to isn't being performed by people, but rather by characters. And the lyrics and the themes that are expressed all seem as though they've been carefully selected to reinforce the image of the character, rather than the honesty of the artist. And this feeling of the music as inauthentic or plastic is only further emphasized by the indiscriminate use of synth sounds and gratuitous reverb.

I'm not saying that the artists of the era were being dishonest, or that the musicianship and songwriting was poor, only that their musical priorities were a little out of whack. It seems as though the primary goal was to polish the sound as much as possible, even to a point beyond recognition. That being said, I really wanted to thank you for including those songs by The Replacements, The Bats, & Minor Threat. I thought those were all fantastic. And I'm sorry Bob, but I gotta side with Robin, Stephen, and Carrie on this one, "Paradise City" is just pure rock n' roll brilliance. One of my favorite guilty pleasures. I laughed out loud when Robin demanded that you keep the song playing.

But on a serious note, I wanted to commend you all for including Guns N' Roses as a highlight of the 80's. I think it's easy to lump them together with the other, as Carrie so eloquently put it, "butt-rock" bands. But Gun's N' Roses always felt sincere to me. The songwriting was better, the guitar playing was better, and they rocked 10 times harder then any of their hair-metal counterparts. I know that GNR isn't exactly the usual fare for All Songs Considered, so I wanted to compliment you for including them and recognizing that it doesn't always have to be subtle and intimate for it to be good. Although, I do need to make a slight editorial comment. The music video to which Carrie referred, the one where Axl Rose is stepping off the bus, is not in fact the video for "Paradise City". The video to which she was referring is for "Welcome To The Jungle." Just wanted to point that out.

Sent by Jon | 5:29 PM ET | 09-05-2008

This discussion of 80's music was enjoyable. Obviously it was more light-hearted and fun, highlighting more of the excesses of the decade, but still taking time to point out some moments of genius. With practically any recent decade of music you could have either a serious debate or a fun discussion; making note of some of the more embarrassing moments or taking the time to find the really good musicians and songs. Perhaps now that the fun/novelty side of this discussion is out of the way, a latter, much-latter, serious debate might occur. I'm sure to the chagrin of many that the topic of 80's music could be stretched into a week long conference, but really... does anyone want that?

Sent by Matt Hocker | 9:27 PM ET | 09-05-2008

I finally got through the podcast today after listening to bits on my commute this week and felt compelled to to write in to mention a number of bands. However, most have already been mentioned above. (I graduated high school in '86, and college in '90, and listened to college radio throughout.)

I do think there was a lot of good unmentioned music in the 1980s, and some was even popular (e.g. 1980s Clash, U2, Gabriel (who was better than he was in the 1970s), Prince, Violent Femmes). There was even more that was relatively unknown, or less known, like the songs that are generally featured on the podcast. This is why I like listening to the All Songs podcast; I hear great music that I don't hear as much on commercial radio. So this episode was entertaining, but a bit of a break from the usual.

What was most surprising to me was that the hosts from my generation apparently and sadly spent the 1980s so trapped by the mainstream. If the point of the show was that there was dreck in the 1980s, there certainly was. But please don't feel compelled to do a show on the 1990s boy bands just to prove there was dreck in the 1990s as well. I'd rather listen to good music....

Sent by Charlie L | 9:54 PM ET | 09-05-2008

I could easily launch into a overly long and gaudy diatribe of the 1980s, but I'll spare anyone who actually browses through these comments here.

I loved this show, and I think retrospectives are an important part of music, so thank you ASC team for giving us a one-hour look back at the 1980s.

The one comment I won't reserve though is about the quality analysis: It was only briefly covered as to why the 1980s was a lack-luster decade for music (synthesizers, primarily), but we need to look beyond that and look to what we actually learned from the musical styles, what has lingered from that decade, and how some of those artists have tried to resurrect their careers in the present (I look to Rush and INXS as prime examples).

I will add one more thank-you here:

Thanks for not Rick-Rolling your audience.

Sent by Jeff Perkins | 9:58 PM ET | 09-05-2008

i just wanted to note something about bad 80s music. notice how many songs have a sharp loud over-reverbed snare hit at every 2nd and 4th beat. it is uncanny how common this is in the 80s. everybody needed that hammer of a snare, drilling the songs into our skulls.

i think dylan in the 80s is an interesting topic. imagine remixing songs from infidels & empire burlesque (and maybe even a couple from knocked out loaded or down in the groove), replacing the snappy snare-led drumming with more subtle percussion, and altering the reverb to give greater space and warmth. i believe you'd be left with the makings for an entirely improved listening experience. the songs suffered from the production - and this was a defining impact of 80s for a lot of "great" artists.

you asked - were there any artists who's body of work flourished in the 80s (compared to significant work in the previous decade)? In my opinion, I would say Tom Waits. He was great in the 70s, but he peaked with Swordfishtrombones and Raindogs (83/85). Also, John Hiatt - his 80s albums eclipsed his work in the 70s.

lastly - for me, the pixies and sonic youth were the saviours of creative rock in the 80s.

Sent by Ed | 4:09 AM ET | 09-06-2008

thanks for your 80s show! it was tremendously entertaining and enlightening! i love when you bring all those critics together. i always learn something new. please keep up the great programming.

Sent by ac | 7:45 AM ET | 09-06-2008

If people fall in love with music during their teen years how can today's
thirty somethings say they fell in love with music from the 60s or 70s when it wasn't part of their teen years? I am nostalgic for the music of the 80s so I was taken aback by the survey but when I looked at the sample of songs I realized that I am nostalgic only for the early electronic, post punk, British ska and new wave/punk music of the 80s some of which seems to have been resurrected(e.g. groups like Fischerspooner with the electroclash genre). So it seems to me that the discussion has to do with the Top 40 music of the 80s which was indeed bland but I really don't think the 70s were that much better with it's lack of glamour, and sentimental bland folk sensibility (e.g. Christopher Cross, Captain and Tennille's Muskrat Love).

Don DeBoer
Minneapolis, Minnesota.

Sent by Don DeBoer | 8:23 AM ET | 09-06-2008

Thanks for your segment today on 80s music. While I agree almost wholeheartedly, I would submit the following in commentary. Another band that did well leading the charge away from synthesizers and back to guitars was the Smithereens. A band that employed keys tastefully was Split Enz from Australia.
Thanks!

Sent by Scott Gaither | 10:41 AM ET | 09-06-2008

I just listened to your show about the music from the 1980's. Let me start by saying that I am not and never have been a fan of most Pop music. As your show began, you were covering mostly the popular radio songs from that era, which I agree was an incredibly bad time for that type of music. Although I guess it should be mentioned that the most successful Pop album of all time Michael Jackson's Thriller was released in 1982. At first I was rather disappointed that you were ignoring some great alternative music that did actually come from that time, but you did eventually cover some of it.

In my opinion the 1980's had some very great music come out of it. It was hard following the ground breaking music of the 1960's and 70's, but in my opinion the 80's brought us the last of any original music stylings. Maybe they were not truly original, but rather music that evolved out of what had preceded it, however, isn't that really what happened throughout the previous decades? For instance Industrial Music had began in the 70's with Throbbing Gristle, Boyd Rice and Cabaret Voltaire, but it became something completely different in the 1980's with bands such as Einsturzende Neabauten, Ministry, Coil, Test Department, The Swans, Crash Worship, the almighty Jim Thirwell aka Clint Ruin aka Foetus, Big Black, Skinny Puppy and even later in the decade with Nine Inch Nails. To say that what these bands brought to music was not original and great is like saying that Jimi Hendrix was just playing the blues.

Another great movement that really came of age in the 1980's was No Wave. Although it did not really evolve into a completely new entity but more or less continued with what was happening before the decade. Sonic Youth alone warrant credit with making the 1980's a great era.

Bauhaus and Siouxsie and the Banshees, yes I know they actually formed in the late 70's, but face it, they were really 80's bands when you look at when most of their great stuff came out. In fact Gothic Rock really was another fantastic movement that was born in the tail end of the 70's, but was more a child of the 80's. Bauhaus debut album "In the Flat Fields" was released in 1980 and the Gothic style would never look back. The Cure were making music in the 1970's but it wasn't until the 80's that they switched directions into more of a Gothic band. Thanks to these bands the record label 4AD was born which brought us the wonderful sounds of Cocteau Twins, Dead Can Dance, Throwing Muses, Dif Juz, Clan of Xymox, Wolfgang Press and This Immortal Coil.

OK, I know that I have a running theme here but to dismiss music that started in the tail end of the 70's only as 70's music, when it really kicked in and took off in the early part of the 1980's is not fair to the 80's. That being said let me move on to The Birthday Party. Nick Cave's early band sort of fit into a few music categories, but to me they are in a class of their own.

Other great bands from that era that deserve mentioning are the Violent Femmes, The Smiths, Stray Cats, The Pixies, Primus, Helmet, The Boredoms and REM (I know you mentioned them on your show, but I had to bring them up again because they are such an important band). Although they were not rock bands Fred Frith's Massacre and John Zorn's Naked City also warrant a mention for their simply over the top greatness!

One last thing that has to be talked about when discussing great musical things of the 1980's is the Brian Eno and David Byrne collaborative album "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts". In my opinion sounds and styles that were developed on this album have influenced more musicians in countless genres of music than any other single album.

The 1980's brought us some of the worst and some of the best in music. Although it was not my single favorite decade of music, if I had to pick my favorite 10 year period of music it would include a chunk of the 80's (1976 to 1985). I personally feel that music has steadily gone down hill since that era. Come on, how can you criticize the 80's without noticing how bad the music has been ever since?

Sent by Dan Colonna | 1:01 PM ET | 09-06-2008

I'm finished with this podcast. I'm not going to attempt to legitimize some opinion with shallow statements like "I'm no fan of pop music...", but I'm also not going to defend the music used in this episode. It's just not the point. Rather, when a show has to resort to exaggerated baloney like "oh god please!", "it's so painful to me", or forced laughter to fit in with criticism that's fashionable, then there's just no worthwhile content there anymore. It's like listening to the derrogatory chatter of an outcast group of children in high school. Acceptance over substance. I'm not in your club, and your music snobbery isn't endearing.

Sent by Don Fount | 3:30 PM ET | 09-06-2008

How can you guys even call yourself Gen Xers? Sure, we're glib, but arrogant? NOT.

Sent by www.GenerationXpert.com | 4:50 PM ET | 09-06-2008

Dear Editors,

You are such snobs! It's one thing to hear from a couple of guys who might actually have been in high school in the 80's, but give me a break when it comes to having a 33-year old comment on music that came out when she was not even ten years old! Did you forget bands like the Police, U2, and GnR? Much of the music of the decade might have been overproduced, but much wasn't--and you don't have to call yourself a college radio aficionado to have listened to and appreciate it. I've got another bone to pick with you on the subject of the '90s. I don't know what planet you have to be from to call the garbage I called complaint rock good music, but it wasn't. Grunge was horrible. The band members forgot how to actually play notes and decided that it was good enough to limit their musicianship to playing power chords. The lyrics and quality of the vocalists was horrible. That music was all about whining, complaining, and screaming (no melodies)--garbage!--and don't give me bands like Radio Head as great bands. Their music was garbage as well. You need to get your heads out of college and alternative radio snob city and remember why we listened to the music in the first place--we were sick of '70s and classic rock for one thing and wanted something that sounded new and different. (I'll admit; however, that you can throw out the teenie bopper crap that was written and played for 12 year olds.)

Sent by Gary Cosman | 8:03 PM ET | 09-06-2008

As someone who was born in the very late eighties in New Zealand this was an interesting show. I suppose a lot of what my idea of the eighties is shaped by my Mum's old tapes of music videos. But I have to say I'd kind of forgetten about most of the bad music because a lot of it generally just dies in the public conciousness. I've got a resonable amount of music from the eighties in my collection so I can say that an area that would have been nice to explore was some of the great British music happening at the time both in the mainstream and underground. Apart from the mention of NZ the show was very UScentric and could have benifited from some slices of The Smiths, New Order, Gary Numan and Young Marble Giants. Plus some Public Enemy and De La Soul would have been diverting.

Sent by Shaun D Wilson | 12:07 AM ET | 09-07-2008

As someone who was born in the very late eighties in New Zealand this was an interesting show. I suppose a lot of what my idea of the eighties is shaped by my Mum's old tapes of music videos. But I have to say I'd kind of forgetten about most of the bad music because a lot of it generally just dies in the public conciousness. I've got a resonable amount of music from the eighties in my collection so I can say that an area that would have been nice to explore was some of the great British music happening at the time both in the mainstream and underground. Apart from the mention of NZ the show was very UScentric and could have benifited from some slices of The Smiths, New Order, Gary Numan and Young Marble Giants. Plus some Public Enemy and De La Soul would have been diverting.

Sent by Shaun D Wilson | 12:07 AM ET | 09-07-2008

Let me begin by saying that the 80s show was great -- I podcast the show regularly and usually don't actually listen to it (the musical picks are not my thing most of the time), but this time I listened to the whole thing in-depth, and enjoyed the analysis.

A couple of things jumped out at me about the song choices, almost all reflective of the panel on the show --

1. The songs picked for review were overwhelmingly "white" -- almost no dance music, and only 2 black artists (no latinos), only one of whom would have had any real following from the African-American community (not Tracy Chapman). I assume this was largely a result of a totally white show panel (I can't say for sure, since I haven't seen any of your pix, but I'm assuming from voices, accent, and mentioned background), with no hispanics or African-Americans on the show to offer their choices. As a result, almost all of the songs picked did not have a dance beat or any significant R&B influence in them. This is a significant oversight, considering the 80s really continued the dance-heavy trend from the end of the 70s, including the golden age of gay club music (Pet Shop Boys, for example) and the natural path disco took. On the urban side, it also saw the golden age of rap, and the beginning of the silver age of rap as the first gangsta rap acts arrived. To ignore these for plain old bubble gum pop and semi-alternative riffs is to ignore the forest for the trees.

Most of the choices from the panel that they liked were either "Smiths"-type songs or accoustic, totally rejecting the new wave synth in its finer forms (such as "The Metro" or many songs from"Duran Duran"), and leaned heavily towards their acknowledged grunge tastes from the 90s. So basically, depressing, down-beat songs, just like Grunge songs were. In this way, the panel (of which I am 2 years younger than the youngest member on the panel) proved themselves true Gen X'ers, and also basically stuck to the same kind of
genres they usually covered on NPR.

2. Major omissions --

Michael Jackson. I mean, c'mon, how could you miss this? He was the "King of Pop" in the 80s because the quality of his work as a solo artist was so great, and he dominated the charts. He may have done good work with the Jackson 5 in the 70s, but he took the throne in the 80s, and is a clear example of a good artist who did the best in that decade compared to previous or subsequent decades. Once again, I wonder if this is due to a "white"-music bias by the panel, though Michael had a pretty broad appeal.

David Bowie -- While his "Let's Dance" album was criticized for being too commercial, it was just mainly a great artist doing a dance album (thus the title), and helped build interest so that many of us went back to his earlier works (though my mother always played his old stuff as well in the house when I was a child).

Huey Lewis and the News -- not sure where he falls, but he was an interesting phenomenon, worthy of discussion

Men at Work -- same as above

3. Song picks for the "cons" argument

A lot of the choices for the "80s were bad" argument were pretty unfair. I mean, of course Don Johnson is going to sing crappy songs, and if you don't like synthesizer, well yeah, it's going to make a lot of stuff sound bad, same as if you didn't like wailing guitars. The 70s and 90s for sure had their share of crappy songs too -- the argument should focus on the best, and then go accordingly into analysis. And yeah, I didn't really get the whole Hall and Oates thing either, most of their songs are like musical war crimes to my ears.

Understandably there was a lot of material to deal with -- I would love for you guys to do like 2 more shows on this topic (and other decades), as it was very interesting radio.

Sent by Glenn | 12:24 AM ET | 09-07-2008

Bob and company,

I can't tell you how much I enjoyed the conversation and music from the '80s music podcast that you recently did. I am a child of the 80s, and much like Robin and Stephen, growing up in the midwest, I didn't unfortunately discover some of the great underground and out of the mainstream bands of that era until later. I loved how you talked about "gateway" bands and albums. Although coming towards the end of the decade, the Cowboy Junkies' The Trinity Sessions was one such album for me.

Your conversation was both fun and intelligent. Not that I'm surprised, but you respected your listeners by acknowledging the nostalgia factor, but didn't allow the conversation to stay there. Thank you thank you thank you for the most thoroughly enjoyable hour of my entire week.

Sent by Eric Baker | 5:33 PM ET | 09-07-2008

Thank you so much for playing these songs. They bring back such great memories! Its funny, I recently was asked by a co-worker what my favorite all time song was. I replied "Without a doubt, Heartbeat by Don Johnson. I could listen to this song everyday." He looked at me for a second, then turned back to his computer without a word.

I loved everything about the 80's. The fashion, the weird haircuts, even Mayor Koch. My favorite shows were (to no surprise) Miami Vice, Remington Steele, Simon & Simon and the awfully bad Manimal. Of course I can't leave out Misfits of Science. I don't think this show last more than a few episodes.

I still can sing along with the Damn Yankees and DeBarge. Mind you, my favorite all time album (this changes daily) has to Crescent by John Coltrane, but thats not something I listen to everyday. Heart's Bad Animals? Not a problem.

Sent by S. Chan | 9:08 AM ET | 09-08-2008

Hi Bob and Crew,

When I saw the title of last week's All Songs Considered, I was actually a little bit excited. See, I was born in 1983, so I missed a lot of the music and have been playing catch-up ever since for every decade before. Even so, there is some music from that era that I love and grew up on, and I couldn't wait to hear what you all had to say. Honestly, I was a little disappointed because you seemed to have glossed over a lot of the good stuff. True, most of the stuff that came out is really only appropriate for nostalgic dance parties, but let's be honest: some artists came out with great stuff. Just off the top of my head, how about these albums?

Paul Simon - Graceland (1986)
Tom Petty - Full Moon Fever (1989)
Michael Jackson - Thriller (1982)

And then there's U2 - They didn't release any albums until 1980! War came out in '83, and Joshua Tree in '87. Elvis Costello had some good stuff in there, too.

It seems to me that these (well, maybe not Tom Petty) were pretty important albums, and they don't have too much of the synth/reverb stuff you were (rightly) complaining about. So I guess I'm just curious, what was it about these albums that made you guys pass them up?

Keep up the good work!
- ian

Sent by Ian Korn | 12:25 PM ET | 09-08-2008

I might have missed some bits of the show, but here's some good '80s music I came up with in case you missed 'em:

* Rush - a lot of good songs
* Paul Simon - Graceland
* The Pixies
* The Cure
* Prince
* Michael Jackson - Thriller, Bad
* The Smiths
* Husker Du
* Throwing Muses
* Metallica - Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, ...And Justice for All
* The Police - Ghost in the Machine, Synchronicity
* Concrete Blonde

I'll also stand up for Tears for Fears, by the way. I really like "It's My Mistake," from Men at Work. And my wife insists INXS rises above the synth blech of the 80s, although I'm not as familiar with them, myself.

Sent by Guido Strotheide | 1:29 PM ET | 09-08-2008

I just finished listening to the 80's show. It was a lot of fun. I'm the target demographic exactly, having graduated high school in 1984.

I greatly appreciated the rosters of the decades greatest sinners, but I thought you guys could have spent a bit more time on the heroes of the 80's. The indie scene really got going in the middle of the decade and the influence of bands out of GA like REM (small shout out) or British Isles like (my personal faves) the Smiths, the Jam and New Order made huge contributions to the scene and their influence is still being felt today. And what about the 80s anthem rockers? What about U2, Big Country, the Alarm and the Waterboys??

I also enjoyed the thought that the synth sound was a virus that infected everyone. So many good bands, like the Simple Minds and Psychedelic Furs had great early albums and then (over) reached on the synth and 80s power production. Some bands recovered, others just faded away.

Great show (podcast).

Sent by Chris | 2:16 PM ET | 09-08-2008

It makes sense that your guest remembered that 80's for all it's faults, simply because they actually grew up during that period and had a chance to hear the good and the bad. We tend to remember the bad, because when music is bad it is REALLY BAD. But, they weren't around for the 60's or 70's bad, all they hear from those decades are the good songs that still get played, giving a false impression that only good music was made. The 80's did have its revolution in music, a little something called MTV (yes it did at one point in time actually play music). In the 80's music went from an audio experience to one mainly weighted towards the visual. Most of the songs were not meant to only be listened to, but viewed as well. Looking back and reminiscing to the audio only, leaves the music feeling one dimensional. It's like listening to a stereo song in mono and complaining it sounds flat. As far as the good? Ever heard of U2, Peter Gabriel, and Paul Simon? They all made some very significant music in the 80's that will forever stand the test of time.

Sent by Mike | 2:58 PM ET | 09-08-2008

Thank you for your equal parts pain inflicting and hilarious show on the music of the 80s. Never before have my ears bled and sides hurt simultaneously.

As a child of the 80s, I really sort of zoned out on music for that decade, and concentrated on the Beatles, Stones and, yes, the Doors for many years, until I discovered "alternative" music. Yet I somehow know EVERY SINGLE SONG played on the radio during that era. I think that really speaks to how damn catchy those songs were.

Anyways, thanks for your wonderful program.

ivana

ps. "Eye of the Tiger" is another one of those "We Built this City" kinda songs that seems to revel in its own "awesomeness". They are songs with absolutely NO sense of humor. I think that many of these songs are also a direct reflection of the politics of the time.

Sent by Ivana | 3:47 PM ET | 09-08-2008

The reviewers eschewing the 1980s as the worst decade for popular music is shortsighted. The 80s certainly had some of the worst, and I mean the worst music ever. Hair metal bands that now bleed together like greatwhitelionsnakewarrant. Electropop was also pretty terrible, all I should have to say is Wham.

At the same time there were awesome bands that were lashing out against this sort of insipid vapid type of music. U2 which is now only thought of as a larger than life bombastic supergroup was throughout the 80s a cutting edge, post-punk powerhouse. Their image at the time of earnest messiahs of rock and roll was in direct contrast to the imagery and message of hair metal, and synth pop, which propelled them into uber stardom.

There was also a huge underground movement of bands like the Pixies, Fugazi, Elvis Costello, REM, Joy Division and ultimately new order, the cocteau twins, dead can dance, (pretty much the whole 4ad catalog) the dead milkmen, tom waits, the cure, Sonic Youth, and lest we ever forget The Smiths. These bands are all quintessentially 80s. These bands have influenced so many bands that are on your all songs considered you could do an entire show just on these musicians.

I know the show covered some of the good music from the 80s. I felt compelled to comment on the story, only in that I remember the 80s as a great time for music, because of the bands that I listed. Which were either emerging or very vital during the 80s. Sure there were some terrible bands, but I guarantee if you played, Fall On Me by REM, In Between Days by the Cure, or Sunday Bloody Sunday by U2, to anyone who really sought out good music they will remember the 80s fondly.

Sent by keith wikle | 4:24 PM ET | 09-08-2008

I enjoyed the 80's show. A couple things: there were comments about how the 80's were about excess -- I think that compared to the 70's the 80's were positively stripped down. (Led Zeppelin? No excess there. Remember -- the 70's are when 'Arena Rock' was spawned. Bell Bottoms? Remember the 'fuzzy' wallpaper people thought was soo cool? Oh, and the cocaine. Don't forget the cocaine!)

Also -- I agree with most of the Hall & Oates comments, but 'You Make-a My Dreams Come True' was one of my first 'favorite songs' as a child (born 1971), and I still enjoy it today. ('Maneater' -- uck.)

Anyway -- keep up the good work, great show!

Thanks --

Stephen Urbauer
Lincoln, NE

Sent by Stephen Urbauer | 4:32 PM ET | 09-08-2008

Your 80's podcast hit the mark, a dreadful trip down memory lane. Anyhow, what about The Smiths? I grew up in Green Bay, high school was 87-91, similar to Stephen Thompson. REM and U2 were also my gateway bands which led to the Sex Pistols, Dinosaur Jr., Replacements, Pixies, and Buffalo Tom among others. I felt like finding those bands was like finding hidden treasure, a small group of us kept each other up to date based off 120 minutes. Now, there's such a deluge of indie music, one can't keep up and the half-life of a band is 3 months, there's no chance to find the next REM, Replacements or other.

Stephen- In 1990, I saw the Goo Goo Dolls open for the Replacements in Green Bay. It was the All Shook Down tour, Westerberg appeared hammered most of the show but it was still one of the best concerts I've been to. See if that brings back any nostalgic memories. My other concert that year was Wierd Al at the Brown County Fair, ahh the highs and lows.

Sent by chris | 5:15 PM ET | 09-08-2008

Fun show! I was in high school from 1980-1984 & in college from 1984-1988, so this is *completely* my era. Although I grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania, I was lucky enough to have an older friend in high school who turned me on to punk and new wave, so I was listening more to the "good" end of songs. I remember listening every week to "Rock Over London" via satellite from the UK to hear the new music. I also remember priding myself that almost nothing I bought was in the Top 40. I kept waiting for "the music explosion" that seemed to happen every decade - and now realizing it happened around 1982. ;-)

Like every era, there was a lot of bad music - and a lot of good music. It really did depend on what one had available. It's easy to think the 60s and 70s had all great music, but a quick look at the Billboard charts shows there was just as much junk then; we've just forgotten because those songs did not stand the test of time.

Thanks for the joyful nostalgia!

Sent by Dee Romesburg | 5:55 PM ET | 09-08-2008

I worked in a record store from 1980 to 1989 and we sold a lot of the junk you guys talked about. It paid the bills, but I was exposed to a lot of great American rock on minor labels, like the Replacements (whom you mentioned) and many others (that you didn't) like Husker Du, the Minutemen, Meat Puppets, X, the Blasters and Camper Van Beethoven. As for Springsteen, the production on discs like Born in the U.S.A and Tunnel of Love may be dated, but the songwriting isn't. And as for old farts who made their best music in the '80s, how about Paul Simon's Graceland?

Sent by John Gibson, Evansville, IN | 6:32 PM ET | 09-08-2008

The 80's were that bad. I'm glad I was born in 86 and was able to miss out on much of it. It was so over produced and kind of makes me sick to my stomach. However, some of my favorite current bands are strongly influenced by bad 80's music. There was some great stuff under all the production.

Sent by Brennan | 6:55 PM ET | 09-08-2008

Yes, the 80s were a terrible decade for music, but, seemingly under the radar in this discussion was the birth and rise of Hiphop. 1988 in particular was a seminal year for Hip hop. Public Enemy, KRS One, Eric B. and Rakim, N.W.A., Run DMC, Beastie Boys, DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, LL Cool J; all of these artists made major contributions to the culture and the music in that year (especially Public Enemy's "It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back," Eric B. and Rakim's "Follow the Leader," and N.W.A.'s "Straight Outta Compton"). These contributions sparked the mainstreaming of Hiphop in the early 90s.

Sent by Ty | 8:01 PM ET | 09-08-2008

80s were just so boring!...Feel sorry for those who had to grow up with junk music of 80s

Sent by ReVox | 8:49 PM ET | 09-08-2008

My confession...I STILL love a lot of good and bad 80's music. Madonna and Belinda Carlisle were my choices in elementary school, which was bookended with my brother's GNR/Bon Jovi/butt rock and my stepfather's Fleetwood Mac/U2/Peter Gabriel. This was the MTV generation, and the pop scene was all I knew. We just didn't know any better.
I listen on podcast, and this made going to work on a Monday morning way better. I walked into the office still laughing. Thank you!

Sent by Melanie | 10:45 PM ET | 09-08-2008

So yes, I was cringing during the entire podcast. I graduated from high school in 1987, then went to college, then worked for a college radio station in 1991/1992. I immersed myself in music during this time, and had vivid memories of every single song you played until near the end.

Like every era, there was great music if you looked in the corners and crevices. I discovered R.E.M. and U2 in the 80s. Sure, Deniece Williams was terrible, but as you played that song, I thought about Control by Janet Jackson and the unforgettable "Let the Music Play" by Shannon. Or Jody Watley. Or Terence Trent d'Arby's first record.

Sure, the production of that decade was terrible. but a good enough band - 10,000 Maniacs or Lone Justice - could still produce a successful album with a unique sound. Some of the best albums - notably the Trinity Session by Cowboy Junkies - abandoned production techniques completely and turned to a heartfelt, organic sound.

But my biggest gripe is the shocking omission of hip-hop music from the entire show. Hip hop took off in the 1980s, and some of hip hop's most seminal works were produced in that decade. There was the political rap: Public Enemy's Nation of Millions, Paris' The Devil Made Me Do It, Intelligent Hoodlum's "Arrest the President". There were rock-solid hip hop albums like Follow the Leader by Eric B & Rakim and Raising Hell by Run DMC. And then there was the beginning of the Native Tongues or conscious rap movement, epitomized by bands like De La Soul, the Jungle Brothers, and Queen Latifah (back in the day, when she was "just" a rapper, she was a monster).

(There's also the gangsta rap movement, which first launched with NWA's Straight Outta Compton. I find this the most annoying genre of hip hop, so I'm chosen to ignore this 'innovation'.)

But you managed to spend an entire talking about the 1980s and you never even thought to bring up Nation of Millions? How could you not even mention Nation of Millions? I'm just shocked. You spent more time talking about the Georgia Satellites than you did about Public Enemy.

Hip hop took gigantic steps forward in the 80s. It turned from a fad to a genre with multiple identities, multiple celebrities, and staying power. MTV had its own show dedicated to hip hop music. I would argue that no genre was transformed as completely as hip-hop in the 1980s. I can't believe that the entire genre didn't even rate a mention in an hour-long podcast.

Sent by Sky Bluesky | 1:18 AM ET | 09-09-2008

Four bands from the 80s that made a huge impression on me that were not mentioned: X, PIXIES, Jane's Addiction. I can't imagine the 90's being what they were without them.
My personal favorite was Meat Puppets, but that's just me. I can see skipping three of those, but to skip the Pixies?

Sent by Alan Thomas | 8:45 AM ET | 09-09-2008

The program was hugely entertaining, but I also think that it's too easy to laugh of the laughing stock of the 80ies. I could find some really toe-curling emarrasing "smurf songs" from the 90ies and ask if the 90ies really were that bad. What I really missed from the show was a larger focus on other kinds of music than electro-pop. The first half of my teens were dominated by Stock Aitken & Waterman-productions, but my turning point was this party I wnt to in 1988 where some very cool 17 year old guys were discussing music. They were talking about U2, The Cure, Depeche Mode, REM, The Pixies, Sonic Youth and the Britsih punk scene. Music was never the same for me again after that party.

Sent by Eva | 11:38 AM ET | 09-09-2008

When I remember I will download the show and listen to it at work. I was listening to the 80's one today. I heard the Tracy Chapman song and then I had to pause your show. I looked up a website where I can find that song streaming, and I love it. Thanks for showing me this song.... I love it

Sent by Jonathan Charak | 3:01 PM ET | 09-09-2008

I really enjoyed this podcast. I really think there should be a follow-up podcast to cover many of the things left out. The closing discussion at the end was proof of how much ground there was left to cover. I thought the most glaring omission was Europe's Final Countdown. The song embodies many of the qualities discussed and then some. The song has an epic beginning that is followed by a really lousy song.

Sent by mark | 3:06 PM ET | 09-09-2008

I agree with most of what was said, but at times, y'all really come off as music
snobs.

And this is coming from someone who feels like a music snob.

I like some of Hall and Oates, knowing that it for what it is. The same goes for Go-Gos, Loverboy, and Don Henley's 80's work.

But you seem to be forgetting about The Police, Sting's solo work, INXS, Guns
N' Roses (shunned only by you), the Black Crowes, Van Halen (pre-Sammy).

I know that you're getting about 3 million of these emails, but I felt that
I should at least make my voice known.

Love your show, love you, Bob. Keep it going and do some more of the Make a Song sessions. I still play Nellie McKay's over and over.

Sent by michael david thomas | 3:26 PM ET | 09-09-2008

Loved the podcast. I was cracking up on my bus ride home, creating fear and apprehension in my fellow riders. I graduated from high school in 1983, so I was RIGHT THERE. And you forgot...Echo and the Bunnymen! The Killing Moon? AWESOME SONG.

Sent by Kanaka Wahine | 3:49 PM ET | 09-09-2008

To amplify what others have mentioned, the total disregard of rap music as something special and wonderful to emerge in the 80s was shocking and made me feel pretty sad and mad. It was the one thing on my mind throughout the entire episode - like a broken record in my head - or a scratching record rather - rap music, rap music, rap music.
There was one moment when I thought "surely they'll bring up rap now. Now's the time if any" - like when you and the guests mentioned the exception to crappy music during the decade. I mean, ask anyone in NYC at the time. Rap was lighting up parties, setting kids on fire! But no - rap didn't even get a glance, a beat.
The scratching record in my head intensified when one of the guests brought up the underground music scene and what was happening there, and I thought, "okay, these are self identified rural folks - maybe rap was underground to them. And, well, maybe stuff pumping in basement house parties IS underground ... I can embrace that". But NO! Rap was again totally absent from the conversation.
I know you aren't trying to be exhaustive in your discussion, but it might do you well to spend a few moments thinking about the perspectives and experiences that your guests bring to the show and what that might add to (or subtract from) the discussion.
In the end, it seemed to me like the episode was a bit like that 80s music you lamented - lots of synthetic material, no beat.

Sent by Kayhan | 9:01 PM ET | 09-09-2008

Just some thoughts on why the 80's were the 80's. I think what was going on in the US at the time and the people who were taking over the industry as well as their experience of the 70's, led to the crap of the 80's. I remember the UK synth-pop bands of the early 80's being referred to as "the new British Invasion". This was an easy way for people in the industry to think about it and their decisions reflect that mindset. It didn't matter that acts who were synth-free had hits, if you were in the trenches of the music industry when the British Invasion came through, or were just getting into music at that time, it would be very easy to see this as the 'sound of the 80's'. And after several acts didn't jump on to the disco bandwagon until it was on it's last legs (Kiss, the Stones) there could easily have been a feeling of "let's get out in front of this thing and take advantage of it". (Again, Kiss, who adopted a New Romantic look for the 'Music from The Elder' record. There are few things more haunting than Gene Simmons dressed like a gay pirate) Since the British Invasion was so influential it's easy to see an act or a company deciding that a synthesizer is now a necessary piece of equipment.
Also, this was the go-go 80's, not the malaise, post-Watergate, post-VietNam 70's. Let's make some money! Nothing exceeds like excess! We built this city! (not only the worst song of the 80's but also the most Reaganesque) The 70's acts had already established themselves as artists, now it was time to get the college fund set up. A change in decades is a natural time for a change in outlook and consider the number of bands that broke up or had their members leave to do side projects (Eagles, Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Lionel Richie, Mick Jagger) The culture was focused on making money (the Me Generation of the 70's coming to power) so it's natural that the music being made would reflect that.
But all this did produce some great work, often in reaction against it. Without Starship and Tiffany and the New Kids you don't get REM, the Replacements or the Pixies.

Sent by Cord | 9:53 PM ET | 09-09-2008

i'm sorry, but your dismissal of the 80s made for annoying listening - i could easily pick equivalent records to show that the 60s or 70s were the worst decade for music. indeed, as a child of the 80s i don't listen to much music from before the 80s, aside from bowie and roxy music, and the post-punk music by the likes of talking heads and gang of four. for me, things really get exciting in the 80s - pop from the likes of madonna and prince, manchester's finest, new order and the smiths, the ska stylings of the specials, and synth pop from the likes of the pet shop boys and abc. Not to mention your scandalous ignoring of the birth and development of hip hop and house music - a decade cannot be the worst for music if some of the most innovative music is made during that period.

Then, by the end of the 80s, we get acid house, the last truly scary youth culture, which becomes dance music, and 1989, possibly the best year ever for music, with new order's technique, de la soul's 3 feet high and rising, the stone roses debut, and possibly the greatest album of all time, the beastie boys paul's boutique.

Sent by ben collins | 10:35 PM ET | 09-09-2008

The TV theme song reached the height of its popularity as a serious artform in the '80s, and has since almost completely disappeared. For me, Pete Carpenter and Mike Post pretty much defined the genre.

Sent by Tom Cronin | 11:04 PM ET | 09-09-2008

My teenage years were spent in the 80's but I listened to nothing but 60's & 70's music for most of that time. Outside of u2, some Police (pre-synchronicity), Grateful Dead, Replacements, Meat puppets, most everything sucked. Mostly because of machines for instruments, & overmiked snare drums. Without a doubt the worst song of the 80's was Starship's "built this city" with honorable mention to "sussudio", and all of Billy Joel's 80's releases.

Sent by Ray Beyda | 11:27 PM ET | 09-09-2008

It's unfortunate that any mention of 80s music leads to a mention of the worst songs - "We Built This City," "Final Countdown," anything from the Footloose album, etc. Yet when we discuss music from the 70s, do we instantly bring up "Seasons in the Sun?" "Rhinestone Cowboy?" "Love Will Keep Us Together?" "Le Freak?" Because those were all chart-toppers in the 1970s. And when music critics talk about the 90s, all we hear about is grunge, which was already beginning to break in the 80s. Why not deride the 90s for being what it really was: the decade of boy bands, Ricky Martin, Celine Dion, and the Macarena?

If you frame the conversation correctly - or if all you do is look at the Billboard top 40 - you could make any decade out to be the worst decade ever.

Someday when music critics talk about the 80s, maybe they'll mention Billy Bragg instead of Billy Idol, Public Enemy instead of General Public, or the Smiths instead of Simply Red. When that happens the decade will start sounding pretty good.

And OMD was much-maligned at the end of this show - and perhaps deservedly so - but I've got two words for OMD haters: Postal Service.

Sent by ron | 11:57 PM ET | 09-09-2008

Dude:

How can you have people who were children in the eighties critique the music.
If some of you were 11 in 1985, then you were six in 1980. How can you
appreciate the Pretenders debut? I was 16 in 1980 and felt the 80's were a
great decade for music.

Jim
>

Sent by Jim Trenton | 12:27 AM ET | 09-10-2008

While I loved this Episode, I could hardly believe my ears. A conversation about the redeeming bands of the 80's went by without any mention of the Cure. They transended the overproduction, helped develop goth, dark pop, and move pop music into the 90's. All the way through the 80's, they produced interesting music from the raw (Pornography) to the sublime (The Top) to the silly ("The Lovecats") they made the 80's bearable, along with the Smiths.

Sent by Joel | 2:08 AM ET | 09-10-2008

Hey, I loved this show. But WHAT THE HELL? 45 minutes on the '80s and no mention of Prince???? Little Red Corvette? 1999? Raspberry Beret? and for goodness sakes, Kiss (the song, not the band)?? I used to wake my kids up for school with Kiss. A guy with a guitar and a bit of backup channels James Brown and his whole band. Genius.

And, furthermore, not one mention of rap. What's up with that? "The Message" on pop radio was one of the most stunning musical moments I can remember, and it let us know that rap music was going to be way more important than people talking about how great they were at rapping.

And, I can't fault you for this, she never really made it to "popular music" status, but, along with Talking Heads and Prince, the '80s for me were deeply about listening to Laurie Anderson.

Sent by Robin Dreyer | 10:07 AM ET | 09-10-2008

I tend to agree with most of the comments on this episode. Some of the 80s work of Eric Clapton and Robert Plant was weaker than some of their earlier output but it did turn me on to that earlier stuff.

However, the 1980s were not entirely bereft of good music. How could you miss the output of U2, especially The Joshua Tree? This album regularly makes critics' Top Ten Albums All Time lists. I would also like to plug Robert Cray, whose "Strong Persuader" album turned me on to the blues. I've been a fan of his ever since and the music in that album still holds up decades later.

As for not having a "defining moment", did everyone forget Live Aid? It seems to me that event stacks up with Woodstock and Nirvana's "Nevermind" album as the "event of the decade". Certainly it spurred a number of children of the 80s to develop a social consciousness, a consciousness that we are now displaying in the presidential campaign.

Sent by Steve Glaros | 11:16 AM ET | 09-10-2008

I really enjoyed this podcast although I do agree that it was incredibly ethnocentric. But, the participants were talking about what they knew.

Music in the 80s was incredibly segregated in spite of the rise of rap and hip-hop and the popularity of Prince. Michael Jackson on MTV in 1983 was a very BIG DEAL.

I think the point of doing this show was that no one in the survey that was done picked out the 80s as a seminal decade for them musically. I'd have to 'blame' the demise of radio and the rise of video for that.

How people obtained the music divided. On top of that, the music itself splintered into many distinct genres.

In the 50s you had rock and roll, in the 60s you had pop and rock, in the 70s you had rock, punk, pop and disco but in the 80s there was a genre for every musical taste: punk, rock, ska, rap, hip-hop, r&b, hair bands, dance music, college alternative etc. etc.

But also, music became corporate in the 80s. In the 60s music was very political, in the 70s there was the spectacle that was arena rock, but in the 80s it was all about making money.

And that's why the 80s really sucked. It's the decade the music died and lost it's soul.

Sent by eb | 1:26 PM ET | 09-10-2008

WHAT ABOUT DURAN DURAN!

THEY DEFINED MTV AND HELPED START AND DEFINE THE MTV GENERATION.

You guys can't just do an 80's show and forget the contributions of Duran Duran and their influence on a generation. Eyeliner, mullets, white pointy shoes, and pirate shirts. They introduced an entire generation to exotic locations in Sri Lanka and the Caribbean and made us all think five pasty white kids from Birmingham were real wild boys.

And and far as musical talent, John Taylor was a real bass player...Chic's Bernard Edwards heavily influenced the pops, snaps, and muted notes of any DD song. Producer Nile Rogers truly was the backbone of DD for some time, hence many could say Duran was a spin off of Chic. They melded the New Romantic sounds of the 80's sound with last generation's disco beats. Their sounds looked like Vivian Westwood's work!

As far as videos go, the Girls on Film video raised the bar for all music video. Nudity in a video. It was contrived art house stuff as was their Chauffeur video but well done in those days. Now everyone has nudity and sexual content but in those times, gosh what a shock! When MTV played only videos and not crap like Tila Tequila, Duran Duran videos were cutting edge. They were highly polished well done mini movies...and in some cases, travel documentations from foreign lands.

Go listen to Hungry Like the Wolf...forget about Simon running around in the jungle like a fool...but listen to the syncopation, the slight guitar riffs, and the synth work---something unique if you really listen. Rio was another--if you can forget about Simon being foolish on the front of the boat--a very complicated song--it wasn't just a few guys banging on synths and playing two cord riffs. Sound of Thunder is modern disco with heavy pre goth sounding synths...true New Romantic sounds coming out of Birmingham.

New Moon on Monday
Friends of Mine
Save a Prayer--I mean come on!

DD might not have had street cred as they were a "pop" band with tween girls loosing it when they walked out on stage but didn't those tween's parents loose it for the Beatles the same way? I'm not making DD and Beatles comparisons but you have to give them some respect for what they did.

Take a listen and enjoy being back in the 8th grade again. So what if it now sounds silly or its hard to imagine you really liked this music...it was great stuff then and some could argue now. It might sound better if you put a little hair spray on and a dab of eyeliner though.

Sent by Marco in Hawaii | 1:32 PM ET | 09-10-2008

I'm a little late on this comment i know but a very entertaining show! I think the previous comments have pointed out the artists you guys didn't mention so I'll just ditto that but the 80's did represent a time of the emerging adolescence of electronics and recording technology that many really great artists, mentioned above, used wisely. I do have to say I think you guys took a bit of an unfair, elitist position against 'pop' music, citing certain somewhat obscure punk-like bands being 'better'...sorta anti-establishment view. It is 'pop' music. It's easy. However, i really can't believe nobody mentioned what I think is truly the worst song, worse than "we built this city" is....ready? Mr. Roboto from Styx! They got booed off the stage at the Cotton Bowl even. thanks! steve

Sent by Steve | 2:11 PM ET | 09-10-2008

Well, since you asked, Steve Winwood's first (70s) album was nowhere near as good as the ones he made in the 80s. He might be the exception that proves the rule.

Sent by M Willett | 3:21 PM ET | 09-10-2008

You know some 80's songs that I've recently re-discovered that are much, much better than I remembered? "Jenny 867-5309" by Tommy 2 Tone and both singles ("Centerfold and "Freeze Frame") by J. Geils Band. They are really catchy, simple little songs. Trust me, don't go by what you remember of them. Dig them up and try them with fresh ears.

Love the show, and this episode especially!

Sent by Colin (age 38) | 4:28 PM ET | 09-10-2008

I was born in '82, and I dj hip-hop mostly (which should have been at least honorably mentioned here)...but even I know to speak about the music of the 80's and not say ANYTHING about prince is a mistake...but great show!

Sent by dj J Fresh | 4:29 PM ET | 09-10-2008

such a great nostalgia trip! laughed out loud through the whole show. (i'm 36.)
keep up the good work!

Sent by janeen | 4:38 PM ET | 09-10-2008

i saw many have already commented on this but dude, were is the rap. you did not mention it a single time. its like talking about seventies music but not mentioning punk. come on.

Sent by ben | 5:07 PM ET | 09-10-2008

I grew up in the 80's myself and to answer the question that you had asked about what year music became important to me, and it would be when I was ~16 in the late 80's (1987).

I don't know if this is somehow unique to our generation, but part of what we love about the 80's is our ability to MAKE FUN of it! Think all the 80's retrospective shows on VH-1 etc. We love to relish in how bad it was, and I could tell you had a lot of fun doing the same.

However, I was disappointed in the fact that you spent the vast majority of the show focusing on "the bad". There were PLENTY of bands that were very important and made GREAT stuff in the 80's -- the only problem is that they weren't popular in mainstream media...Think about how the 80's were right at that cusp where "Alternative Music" became mainstream music. Well, the stuff out there that was still "alternative" back then did not necessarily focus on the things that made the 80's horrible. You talked about some of the 'small pockets' of music, but there was definitely more out there, albeit still 'independent'.

I know I'll show my biases here, but looking at my 80's playlist on my iPod, I could find plenty of stuff that I think has lasting value today. I wanted to at least throw down a few songs for you that make me keep coming back to the 80's. I encourage you to chase down these songs and listen to them again (or perhaps for the first time)...Some are obviously products of their generation, but good songs nonetheless.

Recommended:
- "The Downtown Lights", The Blue Nile (go out and find this album -- Hats. Great, great stuff)
- "Slave to Love", Bryan Ferry
- "The Spangle Maker", Cocteau Twins
- "All Cats Are Grey", The Cure (seriously? No mention of THE CURE in an 80's show???)
- "Summoning of the Muse", Dead Can Dance
- "Blasphemous Rumours", Depeche Mode
- "Candleland", Ian McCulloch
- "Hounds of Love", Kate Bush
- "Suadehead", Morrissey
- "Love Vigilantes", New Order (how was New Order not mentioned either?)
- "Ringfinger", Nine Inch Nails
- "Cuts You Up", Peter Murphy
- "Debaser", Pixies
- "Steaming", Sarah McLachlan
- "Shatter", Shelleyan Orphan
- "Black Boys on Mopeds", Sinead O'Connor
- "The Killing Jar", Siouxsie and the Banshees (undoubtedly MY most influential song/band)
- "She Bangs the Drums", The Stone Roses
- "Birthday", The Sugarcubes
- "Woman in Chains", Tears for Fears (why did you focus on Songs from the Big Chair? Seeds of Love is way, way better)
- "The Jeweller", This Mortal Coil (or anything else from Ivo Watts-Russell's 4AD "all star" band!)
- "Dizzy", Throwing Muses
- "In My Room", Yaz

Sent by Dan Langrill | 6:18 PM ET | 09-10-2008

Born 1958... honeymoon in 1983, Cancun (ps-still married) ... nothing playing anywhere, even Mexico, except "Thriller," everywhere. Michael Jackson WAS '80s pop, and Prince, Dire Straits, Men at Work, Peter Gabriel.

Fine Young Cannibals?

But despite all those omissions, the show was great, and oh so funny. All I really missed was The Smiths! Please, please let me get what I want... this time.

Sent by Mary Murray | 8:49 PM ET | 09-10-2008

I graduated HS in 84', college in 88'. A really sad fact, I lost my virginity to Spandua Ballet. Maybe that's a bit TMI...but I always smile whenever I hear "True".

Sent by Cosmickent | 7:32 AM ET | 09-11-2008

Topic for next show:

How the space created by grunge destroyed (or at least retarded) the awesome extension and development of punk and post-punk that took place in the '80s.

I left on a two-year LDS mission a month after "Smells Like A Teen Spirit" debuted on MTV. I thought it was a great song, but I didn't realize it was going to kill hair metal and hard rock and completely change the radio landscape. To me, it was an extension of the Screaming Trees or Temple of the Dogs.

When I left I thought that thrash/noise and industrial was going to break big. I thought that techno was going to become huge. And I thought that the Madchester scene was going to produce some great stuff.

I returned in Feb. of 1993 to discover that I was totally wrong.

Now, I can't claim major underground credentials -- my entire musical education was listening incessantly to Live 105 (commercial college rock) and KZSU (Stanford's college radio station) between 1988 and 1991.

But it was very distressing to discover that Nine Inch Nails (or as I call them "the Depeche Mode of the '90s") and Green Day were huge (or become huge shortly after my return). That grunge had basically devolved into hard rock. That the whiny Smashing Pumpkins were carrying the more psychedelic-orchestra sounds instead of, say, the Inspiral Carpets (and I like some of the Pumpkins work, but still). And what the hell had happened to REM? (full disclosure: I have to admit to initially liking Out of Time -- now I can't stand to listen to it -- although it was weird and rather suspicious to meet all these people who loved that album but had never heard Document or Green).

Yes, the post-punk bands of the '80s also got their props (and sometimes some record sales) -- with the Pixies, the Replacements, Sonic Youth and Husker Du all getting cited as inspirations.

And yet it was a bewildering scene to return to after two years. Live 105 was playing some okay music but it was no longer playing ska and reggae and thrash. And it only got worse when the listeners who had adopted grunge reasserted their hard rock/hair band roots and turned to rap-rock in the late '90s. I mean, talk about a wasteland for music.

Anyway, the point is this: 1977-1989 was a great era for punk, post-punk and related offshoots (and yes I'm even talking about synth pop and goth). Nirvana and co. (with some help from rap) killed top 40 radio, but it was in many ways a Pyrrhic victory.

Sent by Wm Morris | 10:20 AM ET | 09-11-2008

What snobs! You all were like the Mean Girls of music. I bet during the 1980s you all were happily singing along to all the bands you now bash. Each year good and bad songs are created. I agree with all the other commentors about the good music you skipped over, tho I missed any mention of Def Leppard's first four albums, which still hold up today. I used to look forward to each week's podcast, hoping to discover a new band, but after this snark-fest I've deleted the show from my iTunes.

Sent by S. Peterson, age 48 | 1:13 PM ET | 09-11-2008

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the 80's show. I sat in my office giggling like the schoolgirl I used to be. I was 13 in 1980 so of course 80's music was incredibly influential to me. To say that music was my refuge is a huge understatement. Living in a small, conservative town in Michigan I never really fit in. I know all teenagers think that but I REALLY didn't belong there. I started listening to artists such as Elvis Costello, the Talking Heads, the Ramones, Blondie and Joe Jackson (an artist who rarely gets his due) in 1979 on a small station out of Lansing. In the early 80's my big sister started bringing home records from Devo, B52s and the like. When she went off to college in 1981 I would look forward to each visit home when she would bring college music I had never heard and had no other access to. All of these artists made me realize that there was this other world out there and other people such as myself and someday I would move out of my small town and meet them! It made 7th to 12th grade bearable.

Was there horrible music in the 80's? Obviously, there was plenty of evidence of that in the show. But here's the thing, a lot of us knew Don Johnson, Rick Ashley and "We Built This City" by Starship were crap at the time they were popular. When most people think of 80's music, wretched pop drivel instantly comes to mind. Give it 10 or 20 years and people will be saying the same for the junk that's popular in the mainstream now (even though it's plenty obvious now). Whenever music is put together for the sole purpose of packaging a trend to sell as much as possible in the shortest time possible it won't hold up.

Carrie brought this point up briefly towards the end of the show but the biggest thing I loved about the 80s and the thing that is gone, maybe forever, was the true underground music scene. We had to work, really hard to discover new bands because there were so few outlets. Even when I was in college the campus station only played the good stuff during a show from 11- 2 am every night. We only went to the bars on Tuesdays when they would play "new music". We all dressed so funny, had Mohawks and the like, so we could recognize who was "in the club" so to say. I wore my funny hairdos strange outfits like a badge of honor even though it meant rednecks would occasionally yell at me out of their truck windows.It was the feeling of being in an exclusive club, a club where being a freak was celebrated. Not everybody got it and we didn't want them too. It was the last time there was a completely new music scene that wasn't a reinterpretation of what had been done before. It was the nursery for so many kinds of great, exciting music that has been made since. Time will tell but music would have to get pretty weird for that to happen again. I'm so glad I came of age when I did, it was exciting, it was fun and yes, I'll admit, sometimes it was really, really stupid.

Sent by Jane | 1:59 PM ET | 09-11-2008

The New Zealand scene in the 80s with Flying Nun was mentioend. There is still some amazing stuff coming out of New Zealand...believe i know I have devoted a podcast to it, and I'm an American!

Anyway...the indie scene in general took root in the 80's. So in truth it wasn't that awful.

But yea the mainstream sucked. Then again isn't that usually the case?

Sent by Carrie Hunter | 2:05 PM ET | 09-11-2008

A big ditto to all the posts that pointed out bands that were missed, especially Husker Du, The Pixies, and others that really set the stage for the nineties.

I grew up in Atlanta (graduated from high school in '89). Perhaps being so close to Athens and having Album 88 (GSU's excellent station) made getting out of the mainstream seem more natural. I had a hard time deciding which excellent music, across many genres, listen to - Widespread Panic, REM, Pylon, as well as bands from further afield - The Feelies, Camper van Beethoven, The Minutemen.

Good times.

Sent by Kevin | 4:39 PM ET | 09-11-2008

As countless others pointed out: why waste 90% of the show talking about top-40 commercial dreck. The 80s were no different from the 90s or the present (or the 60s for that matter), in that the vast bulk of what was selling millions of copies was garbage, and that you had to go look for decent bands on college radio and by going to clubs.

The main difference between now and then was the rise of the internet.

As always, thank God for Carrie Brownstein; otherwise the only high-points to the show would have been the Talking Heads clip, and Bob repeatedly referring to "HR" from Bad Brains as "JR".

Now THAT's funny.

Sent by ibc | 6:13 PM ET | 09-11-2008

Hello Bob,
I'm a regular listener of your show podcast here in Quito, Ecuador. I was listening the "where the 80's really that bad" emission and it was great. By the end of it I heard you guys talk about the song "Take On Me". I'm remebered a cover of that song made by a local jazz band which made me actually appreciate the song, even though it's from the eighties... The band is called "Rarefacci??n" (www.rarefaccion.com ).

Congratulations on such a great show.

Sent by Carlo | 6:46 PM ET | 09-11-2008

Music that was as good in the 80's as in other years?!? I can think of 2 examples, Fisherman's Blues by the Waterboys and The Trinity Sessions by Cowboy Junkies. Both of these came out during my junior/senior year in high school and they blew my mind.
What about Living Colour?
What about Farrenheit and The Del Fuegos and The Heritx and The HooDoo Gurus and O Positive and Bim Ska La Bim and the rest of the awesome Boston music scene of the 80's?
The Alarm put out what might have been the greatest live album of the decade- my best friend and I played that tape until it broke.
As far a guilty pleasures go, what about Frankie Goes to Hollywood? And Simple Minds! And Andy Taylor's (from Duran Duran) solo album, Thunder
And the Greatest, Never got the credit they deserved band of the 80's....The Call...Into the Woods is as good an album as ANYTHING I've heard in the last 10 or 20 years. And let us not forget that 1989 gave us Workbook, by Bob Mould.

Sent by Chris Viens | 7:41 PM ET | 09-11-2008

A key problem with polls is, that when dealing with decades, if you didn't live through a decade, you have no affinity to it.. so, the further we get away from the 80's, the less that the current generation can relate to it's peculiarities or generational/historical base. For example, since I was born in '67 I have no connection to music from the '50's or most of the '60's, so I am predisposed to reject it simply because I didn't live through those times... yet, being a musician, I enjoy music from allll decades, trying to base my opinions on a quality basis. And I truly believe that the overwhelming strength of the 80's was that we enjoyed a wealth of quality music, sith a wide, diverse spectrum of styles, which has not been duplicated since. I honestly believe that this is because funding has been withdrawn steadily from schools since the 70's, so children who came of age in the 90's and in the 2000's simply don't have the musical skills or depth of their predecessors! At the end of the current day, my radio shows very little proof to the contrary. I certainly keep my ears open and am grateful to NPR for the outlets they provide.
To me, the biggest gain of the 80's was that there was an air of.. experimentation, and bravado, and FUN, in music, and fashion, that we haven't seen since. The world has gotten more serious, our problems have become more entrenched, so of course music understandably slips off in it's guiding power in the culture. We've had some scary issues to deal with since the 90's rolled around. The lightheartedness of the 80's was burnt away by the caustic world dramas that played out. Hopefully the world will produce some peace, and we can reset our minds to having fun again. I know that that mindset is what I miss the most. Sometimes I feel that I felt so lighthearted because I was a teenager in the 80's, but overall I'm not convinced. I think we were in a 'calm-before-the-storm' situation from 1978-1993. Certain societies prospered, and then our actions caught up on a global scale.
So to sum it up, someone born in 82 will not appreciate the 80's decade as a whole, since they didn't start paying attention to radio until 1995, where the global mindset was worlds apart. Just like I have to grasp at straws when my mom rants on and on about the late 50's! I think a poll ran today is biased towards the peers of the current teens and twentysomethings. Which isn't bad, it's just biased. Maybe when they're 40, they will better discern what was good and what was not.

Sent by Dean M. | 9:15 PM ET | 09-11-2008

As someone who came to the 80s from the "other side" (i.e., just out of college when the decade struck), I found the autopsy hysterically funny. I got some peculiar looks on the subway as I listened and laughed out loud. No regrets that you left some things out -- everyone acknowledged it at the end. It was a musical education all the same, not only in putting the Hits into proper perspective (making me realize I *should* be embarrassed to have enjoyed some of it), but introducing me to groups I missed (and shouldn't have) because I'd already turned my back on popular music by then. The idea that I missed out on the Kiwi explosion is humbling. That, after all, is why I'm listening to ASC.

I hope you'll consider following this up (after our sides stop aching) with something of the same: appeasing all those whose bests and worsts were left out, but also more analysis of what stands the test of time.

Sent by Ross | 9:43 PM ET | 09-11-2008

After being an NPR fan for many years, this is the first time I've listened to your show - and I've got to say it's one of the snarkiest pieces of junk I've heard in a long time.

So a little about my background - I also came of age musically in the 1980s (I'm 38) and didn't much like 80's music at the time, so I turned to 'classic rock.' Additionally, I play 3 instruments, am trained in jazz and have played in rock, funk, blues and country bands. I'm no virtuoso, but I just want to establish that I'm not completely ignorant on the subject.

So you guys spend the better part of an hour looking down your noses at 80's music, its excess,its production values, and, for lack of a better term, its badness . But what you guys fail to realize is that is exactly what defines a truly great 80's song. To say that an 80's song is bad because there's a DX7 in is it like saying 60's music is bad because it had a political conscious, 70's music is bad because it's loud and raucous, or 90's music is bad because its angst-ridden. I can just hear your critique of Led Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti - "Oh, there goes Jimmy Page playing his Les Paul again. Can't he use another guitar for a change?" It's a completely empty comment.

Next, I'd like to discuss a few of the songs you assert is "good" 80's music.

When you played that Replacements song (which I hadn't heard before), my first thought was that it sounded like a poppy version of mid 60's Beatles, like something off Rubber Soul or Revolver. But when it hit the chorus, that opinion changed to that it was a direct rip off of "I'm Only Sleeping" from Revolver. Not that it's uncommon for bands to rip other bands off (especially when it comes to copying the Beatles), but it shows that your point that this song is somehow breakthrough - while mainstream 80's music is is complete trash - is completely off base.

Next, you bring up Tracy Chapman's "Fast Car" as an example of a great 80's song. The song is a dull guitar riff repeated ad infinitum, with stream-of-consciousness lyrics - the crutch of weak songwriters. Look what I can do in 5 seconds:

I'm sitting at the computer
writing a lettler to NPR
tell them what I'm thinking
who knows if it'll go to far.

YAWN. If you knew the first thing about songwriting, you'd realize exactly what a thoroughly unimportant song this is.

You played the Talking Heads' "This must be the place." I won't argue that this isn't a good song, but what I will say is go back and listen to the bassline in the opening measures. It's strikingly similar in production value and even melody to the bassline of "Let's Hear It For The Boy" that you spent the first 10 minutes of your show picking apart.

And finally, you trash Jefferson Airplane's "We Built This CIty." Is it a good song? Of course not. But it's fish in a barrel. How about some real insight?

My advice to all of you is to reach way up in your rear ends, pull out those Smiths records that are jammed up there, and enjoy 80's music for what it is.

Sent by Kevin | 12:17 AM ET | 09-12-2008

On the program, the question was asked "were there any bands that made better music in the eighties than in the seventies? I came up with one: King Crimson. I love "In the Court of the Crimson King" and I love the more experimental quality of King Crimson's music, compared to other progressive rock bands. However, in the post-punk eighties, bands like Yes, Genesis and Asia came back on a shorter leash, focusing on music that was more accessible. King Crimson didn't. Their lineup, which included Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford, Tony Levin and Adrian Belew, took the band's experimental nature and put in overdrive. They were eclectic, rhythmic and poetic. I know songs like Elephant Talk can seem more like language exercises that music, but there was a lot of great music. Listen to Discipline and Three of a Perfect Pair.

One other thing: adding to your list,I think there were three bad things about music in the eighties: the DX-7, digital reverb and the third D; David Foster. I know you didn't identify individuals, but he really shaped a lot of the overproduced sounds of the decade. He became too responsible for the success of bands like Chicago. I love the early Chicago songs and in the eighties, I listened to the new stuff quite a bit. Now, I have little patience for it. I hear a lot of those same qualities in a lot of eighties music. Thankfully, he's created a new genre of music that's easier for us to avoid.

Sent by Kenny | 7:38 AM ET | 09-12-2008

Dear Idiots (JK Steven),
Really fun episode but, my God, no mention of the Smiths or the Cure?
But thank you, Carrie, for introducing me to the Bats - great stuff.

Sent by David | 9:13 AM ET | 09-12-2008

The panel does come off as the worse kind of snob - the retrospective snob. And I'm not sure they are even qualified. You didn't come off as knowledgeable about music in the 1980s.

Your forgetting what the decade allowed music to do. This is the first decade to reference and react to the rock and roll era. Mix emerging technology with an access to world music and you got some interesting sounds (Talking Heads, Soul II Soul, Peter Gabriel, Paul Simon,
Sade, English Beat, UB40, Police etc.) House, Acid, and Techno all started in the 80s.

As for top forty - it's never a place to look for cultural influence. You are always going have a variation on Physical (Olivia Newton John) or anything by Mr. Mister. This type of music is attacked while it's on the charts - so in retrospect it's just too easy. There was music on the charts that meant something to future music: (obviously) Michael Jackson, Prince, Madonna, De La Soul, Run DMC, ABC, Eurythmics, Crowded House, New Edition, Nenah Cherry, Talk Talk, Yaz, Go-Gos, Grandmaster Flash, Los Lobos, Def Leopard, LL Cool J)

Rock music seems to have suffered the most as a genre in the 80s. Partially because of the a reaction to "classic rock" and new opportunities to express yourself (Rap, New Wave, Punk, and unfortunately Hair Metal) The college and underground scene kept the fires burning until grunge finally revived rock's relevant voice.

I'm particularly fond of 1985: Prefab Sprout (there'd be no Stars or Death Cab), Smiths, Replacements, Waterboys, Del Amitri, Cure, REM, New Order, Scritti Politti, Red Hot Chili Peppers, The Fall, Tom Waits all had great albums that year. I consider most of these as quintessential 80s music because they are without the hangover of the 70s and aren't necessarily early-emerging forms of 90's music.

Sent by jodu | 11:49 AM ET | 09-12-2008

X!

Sent by Jen from Brooklyn | 5:41 PM ET | 09-12-2008

I am a regular listener who came to age in the 80's (born in '72) and had to turn off your shallow evaluation of the decade with the second song. "Name one major event that happened in the 1980's," you asked retorically... Live Aid. If you look at the line up, you will find very few of the bands you chose to make fun of, and many that you still respect today. The mainstreaming of hip-hop (Run-DMC, NWA), the rebirth of blues (Robert Cray, SRV), the birth of House music (Frankie Knuckles, Larry Heard... the world is a better place for th 80's.

Sent by Jonathan | 5:50 PM ET | 09-12-2008

The 80's were years of crap music but there were a few good bands out there - King Crimson, XTC, Talking Heads to name a few. Listening to the podcast did make me cringe! I hope to never hear some of those songs again. Guilty pleasure - the Smithereens!

Sent by kingchazs | 8:05 PM ET | 09-12-2008

I am at this point 17:25 into the show, and fortunately I just heard before pausing it that you are going to get into "good bands" later on in the show, so I don't have to fire off the furious email complaining that you are misrepresenting the decade by featuring only the cheesiest and/or most horrendously awful cuts (any decade could be made to look terrible if you picked the right tracks, after all). I'll hope to hear about bands like Love and Rockets, the Smiths, the Cure, The Church, New Order, etc. later in the show.

But I did want to stick up for Don Henley's solo work. You guys were snickering about how critically acclaimed the "Building the Perfect Beast" album was at the time; I think it still holds up. Sure, Glenn Frey was an embarrassment; but I don't think Henley deserves to be lumped in with Frey. Henley had a good song later in the '80s, too, with a political edge: "End of the Innocence".

Okay, finished the show and enjoyed it greatly. I especially loved how you trashed on "We Built This City", a song I hated from the moment it came out (I hadn't heard about the Blender thing). How perfect(ly evil) to use it to get another song out of your head! I also love Tears for Fears, and (like one but only one member of your group) always hated Guns and Roses. Liked the shout-outs at the end to Dream Academy, A-ha and Howard Jones. Also loved discovering new music like the Bats.

Carrie Brownstein's observation was spot on: the '80s were the last (and perhaps in some ways also the first and therefore only?) era of a true underground scene, since today the music world is flattened and with a "long tail" thanks to MySpace and the general ease of finding music even if it's not put out by a label.

Speaking of '80s underground music, I have to echo the amazement that the Smiths and the Cure were not mentioned even in the shout-outs at the end. That's a huge oversight!

Sent by SlackerInc | 9:25 PM ET | 09-12-2008

I'm on a business trip in Miami, and yesterday I took a long exercise walk along the beach, listening to the '80s show. Enjoyed it even if I liked the music of the era more than the group. I graduated from HS in '81 so the '80s were definitely formative for me.

Ironically this morning I walked through my hotel lobby and what was playing (loudly) than Deniece Williams "Let's Hear it for the Boys"! In some twisted way, I like the song better now for your "discussion" of it.

Sent by Tom EG | 12:22 AM ET | 09-13-2008

I came of age for music during the folk era of the early '60. That said, what I remember most about the '80 is that it was a time of fun catchy, danceable, but throw away song. What I remember was Springsteen's Born in the USA, U2, REM and this guy from Texas, Steve Earle.

Sent by Rick Nelesen | 2:16 AM ET | 09-13-2008

Was I really that far out of the mainstream? Great show, but you tackled an awfuly big topic. Maybe the music I listened too back then was bad then and is bad now but I still think some if it is pretty good. Maybe the fact that some of it is so ridiculusly bad, it overshadows anything of value. I am talking about the 'goth'/punk stuff like Bauhaus, Alien Sex Fiend, Sisters of Mercy and the rest. Does anyone think it has value. I have some Bauhaus on my ipod and it does not seem that far out there. And what about Tom Waits as someone who did some of their best work in the eighties?

Sent by Aaron Burke | 10:08 AM ET | 09-13-2008

Timeless music - some amazing 80's recordings:

Peter Murphy-DEEP
Brian Eno/Daniel Lanois-APOLLO Sndtrack
Icicle Works-ICICLE WORKS
The Chameleons-STRANGE TIMES
Joy Division-UNKNOWN PLEASURES
Love&Rockets-7TH DREAM OF TEENAGE HEAVEN
Galaxie 500-ON FIRE
Echo & the Bunnymen-OCEAN RAIN
The Cure-KISS ME, KISS ME, KISS ME
The Waterboys-THIS IS THE SEA
U2-THE UNFORGETTABLE FIRE
The The-MIND BOMB
The Church-STARFISH
Simple Minds-NEW GOLD DREAM
Shriekback-BIG NIGHT MUSIC

and the list goes on.....

Sent by kojak | 11:58 AM ET | 09-13-2008

After listening to the podcast I have to admit that I agree with most of the comments made about how bad music was in the 80's. The bad synthesizers, the big hair, "but rock." There were some definite low points, but there were also some bright spots.
There was a lot of influential music made in the 80's. Bands like The Cure, Violent Femmes, Pixies, REM, The Smiths, Sonic Youth, etc, etc. Besides REM none of these other bands were mentioned on the podcast. I am disappointed that these bands were left out of the discussion.

Sent by Zach Gibson | 3:03 PM ET | 09-13-2008

I was very surprised there was no mention of rap/hip hop. I was a child of the 80's and learned to LOVE the Beasties, Run-DMC, Schooly D, etc... I loved REM, the Replacements and Duran Duran as well, but rap really came into the mainstream in the 80's. Maybe that should be a separate show...

Sent by Rebecca B | 5:43 PM ET | 09-13-2008

Just recently listened to the 1980's show. While I agree with much of what was said about the songs that you trashed, I did feel that your coverage of what was good about the 1980's was lacking (maybe you just didn't have time) - by the way I'm approaching this from the perspective of an Englishman who was 16 when the 1980's started and was at college in the north of England between 1984-1988. Others have mentioned the lack of discussion about rap and house music, the Smiths' and Madonna's debuts, Paul Simon's Graceland and Kate Bush's Hounds of Love. For what it's worth, here are a few others that I feel worthy of mention: Martin Stephenson and the Daintees' debut, Boat to Bolivia (he is still making great music from somewhere in the Highlands and is someone that the show should definitely check out), Aztec Camera's High Land Hard Rain, Sinead O'connor's The Lion and the Cobra, Squeeze, The The, The Sundays, Cocteau Twins, The Housemartins and The Beautiful South, Dexy's Midnight Runners first couple of albums, The Waterboys, The Pogues, The Jesus and Mary Chain, Mary Margaret O'Hara, Lloyd Cole & the Commotion's Rattlesnakes, Laurie Anderson's Mister Heartbreak, John Hiatt, Nick Cave and the Bad Seed's just doing covers on Kicking Against the Pricks and finally, even 1980's Wham-boy George Michael put out a great debut album with Faith.

Sent by Ed Bowers (Las Vegas) | 11:16 PM ET | 09-13-2008

Maybe it's me, but I've always thought that the mainstream pop music of pretty much any decade sounds pretty awful. Also, while mainstream MTV has and probably always will suck,
MTV's 120 Minutes was pretty great.

Anyway I was in high school and college during the 80's and I was able to find a ton of great music to listen to and to see live. I was able to see Black Flag, Husker Du, the Minutemen, Camper van Beethoven, Butthole Surfers, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Meat Puppets, Pixies, Negativland, Dinosaur Jr, etc. There was great stuff going on in the ska revival with English Beat, Madness, the Specials. And also Bongwater, Jesus and Mary Chain, Pogues, Joy Division, Big Black, Public Enemy, Cocteau Twins... There's many more but you get the idea.

On the show you dragged out Springsteen's Born in the USA as an example of sub-par 80's music. And then you mentioned Nebraska, which was released in ... 1982! Also give The River (1980) another listen, it was great too.

Another artist that got better rather than worse was Elvis Costello.

So how about a follow up show, "The 80's: Best Decade Ever?" You could make the case both ways...

Sent by Phil S | 11:47 PM ET | 09-13-2008

[don't think this went through... apologies if it's a double-post]
I posted a Facebook link to this show yesterday because I hope all my high school and college friends check it out. Reliving the pain of some of this synthetic cheese is pretty therapeutic.

Of course, a one-hour live conversation can't catch everything, so I can't be too harsh in criticizing you guys and gal for missing rap/hip-hop. Still, that was genre of obvious growth in the 80s, moving from "Rapper's Delight" to "Fear of a Black Planet" over the course of the decade (with the inevitable setbacks of "Don't Touch This" and "Ice Ice Baby" lurking at decade's end). It's not a style I enjoy at all, but I still remember feeling in the late 80's that rap and hip-hop were taking over because rock and pop were so hapless.

At the time, I was in the Stanford Band, which plays only rock-and-roll music, and we were *dying* for popular-and-good new music we could arrange for our balls-out style. Only a very few contemporary songs -- like Midnight Oil's "Beds Are Burning", the Cure's "Love Cats", and Oingo Boingo's "Dead Man's Party" -- really worked out for us. We tried charting "Don't Touch This" and it didn't end well. What a revelation to come back as an alumni a few years later when the band could make marching band charts of Green Day and the Offspring and other great, powerful rock bands that broke out in the 90's rock renaissance.

One other factor of 80s music was the emergence of the compact disc. For a while, it made us all music fetishists, determined to find and eliminate tape hiss in our music. I think this might have fostered a preference for the sanitized, over-engineered production style found in so much 80s music and discussed on the show. I've seen similar complaints that producers are now mixing for the audio side-effects of MP3, and wonder if 2000s' music will lack authenticity in retrospect because of how it's produced.

Then again, there's so much more good stuff to be found today. I didn't listen to college radio in the 80s, even when I was in college, and was instead using "classic rock" as a gateway back to great music of the 60s and 70s. Now I'm 40 and I'm listening mostly to contemporary indie bands like Rilo Kiley, Immaculate Machine, The Delgados, The Cribs, Bend Sinister, Kaki King (thanks for her concert, NPR!), The New Pornographers, etc. Maybe the key is the findability of good new music through podcasts, web radio, Pandora, Last.fm, iTunes, etc. I know I missed good 80s music: I bought Sonic Youth's "Daydream Nation" a few months back and said to myself "why was I listening to Alan Parsons Project and Blue Oyster Cult in college when I could have just gone down to Tower and bought this?"

Sent by invalidname | 8:21 AM ET | 09-14-2008

I think your overview was mostly superficial and unfair. Invariably people who attack the 80s employ the same arguments, focussing on the synth scene or hair metal, ignoring the breadth of music made then.

You have a point about the digital impact on production. One interesting digital recording that has stood up well is Lyle Lovett's Pontiac.

You completely ignored the Ska scene which was very much alive in the early 80s, ie The English Beat, Specials.

You glossed over the Manchester Scene. The Stone Roses were a seminal band.

I very much enjoyed Tom Verlaine's solo work. His records along with a few others, Nick Cave, the Pixies, got me through university in the late 80s.
I would also like to point out the Pogues as a great band, embracing instruments (and booze) over synth sounds. What a memorable show that was.

The 80s taught me that going out and looking for music was the way to find something truly memorable. I think the internet has made that easier but the same can be said of today, the mainstream has been dead for years.

Thanks for the show!

Sent by Chris Booth | 12:24 PM ET | 09-14-2008

As a huge fan of the 80's, I thought the show was hilarious. Still, I'd love it if you did a show on the good music of the 80's, even a couple shows, 80's rap, alternative 80's, ska/punk. Get some co-hosts who were in these scenes and we can explore music that hasn't been mentioned even in these comments.

I agree with a lot of the comments about what was left out, and I did get mad in between laughs. One last thing, Joy Division was dead by the 80's.

Sent by RickMcD | 6:48 PM ET | 09-14-2008

I listened to the show but found it incredibly elitist and snobby. I really like All Songs Considered but I have to admit this show in particular really made me cringe, particularly with the way you guys were taking songs that were just easy targets and giggling and ridiculing them. Of course there were some execrable songs in the '80s! You can find such songs in any decade. I think the more important issue that you didn't talk about is how music media (and here I'm including 'popular' music media such as VH-1, etc.) forcefully create an ethos for a particular decade, a kind of ironic nostalgia by selectively picking 'bad' songs, so that after a few years of being fed this ironic nostalgia, we actually start to believe that the decade in question was actually the way VH-1 said it was. And voila, we create new memories.

The other point I'd like to make (sorry to be so verbose) is that there was a slight undercurrent in your episode of dismissing black music. I'm not suggesting any racism or anything, just a general subtext that black/r&b/rap from the 80s kinda sucked. (by the way, if for nothing else, prince makes the eighties hands down the best decade).

Anyway, we all know you guys have oh so uber-cool taste and listened to the replacements (who i worshiped at the time by the way) and big black or the pussy galore or whatever in the eighties but, i think i would have enjoyed it more if there was some attempt to put all of that crap music (Don Johnson, hair metal, Phil Collins drum sounds, etc.) into the context of the larger world of top 40 music, which, excepting some rare periods (50s, 60s, early 90s), has more or less been mediocre music for the past fifty years.
by the way, for what it's worth, if i was forced to pick a decade that was full of absurdly bad music, i would have picked the 60s. and the worst year would be 1969. the music of woodstock was just hideous. only the debut stooges album redeems that year.

Sent by Asif | 10:58 PM ET | 09-14-2008

How do you do a whole show on 80's music and make no mention of U2, The Pixies, The Smiths, The Police, Sonic Youth, The Cars, 10,000 Maniacs, Janes Addiction, Crowded House, the Fixx, or Elvis Costello? All of them had bad 80's moments of course, but they all did their part to carry on the DNA of rock and roll through the wasteland of 80's tripe. And they all have at least a few songs that hold up really well even today. Sometimes the impulse to talk about unknown bands in order to bolster your street cred gets in the way of an honest representation of the times. You seem to be saying that almost all the music we've HEARD of in the 80's was worthless, and that the only place to find 'legit' music was underground. Its just not true. And I think that sort of snobbery is getting really boring.

Sent by klover | 1:42 AM ET | 09-15-2008

There are plenty of omissions; bands you simply did not mention. That's bound to happen of course, but no mention of The Fall?! Give back your "music press" licenses.

Sent by Shaun | 7:58 AM ET | 09-15-2008

Loved the show. One's feelings about the 80s are definitely a function of one's place in life. I started college in 1980 and in the space of a year or two, first heard some killer late-70s music -- Elvis Costello, Talking Heads, Bruce Springsteen, and The Clash. With my ears now opened and a college radio station to listen to, the early 80s weren't that bad at all.

To this day I still get major props from my old college buds for being the first to discover REM (Radio Free Europe). I get only minor props at best for being into Johnny Clegg (Jaluka) and early 10,000 Maniacs.

Sent by Ted J | 11:07 AM ET | 09-15-2008

I just listened to your 80's show. and I have to say that yes the 80's were way to synth oriented. but everything that you guys liked from the 80's was either stuff that still sounded like the late 70's or pre-grunge ( which I really don't see as the highest point in music history) Instead of playing the smiths you played a band called the bats??? And i know how much Bob enjoys his hardcore (which had some awesome music) but no one even mentioned NWA, a band with just as much angst as an hardcore group.

Sent by megan dell | 11:40 AM ET | 09-15-2008

The Pixies formed in 1985 - the greatest rock band ever...

Sent by James | 12:14 PM ET | 09-15-2008

I hope you do address your inexcusable oversight of the birth of hip hop. The name of the show is "All Songs Considered," not "All Better-Than-Thou Upper-Middle-Class White People Songs Considered."

Sent by Dave | 11:03 PM ET | 09-15-2008

Funny things is that most of the music gods we now revere as geniuses, from Nirvana to Radiohead and Coldplay were 80's -influenced and inspired.

But definitely not the music that were sampled in the list.

Dig some more and set sights across Atlantic.

Best.
alain

Sent by friarminor | 2:42 AM ET | 09-16-2008

Man, I really hoped to find this topic interesting, but feared that it would be somewhat predictable. My fears came true. I understand that there is a certain camaraderie between those who were involved in the panel - listening to nostalgic bits of crappy production/obnoxious radio hits, etc. (you could tell by all the giggling that went on). And I know that no matter who is a part of a panel like that (especially one that disects and reviews 80s music), there will always be at least one example of a song that's ridiculed by which a listener will feel insulted by the ridicule (mine is Hall and Oates' "You Make My Dreams" - NOT "You Make-A My Dreams Come True", as stated by the one really annoying, ill-informed guy on the panel). That doesn't bother me so much. I guess what bothered me is how truly snobby Carrie and Boilen were. Man, Bob kissed her butt so hard it was truly pathetic. He's trying so hard to be "cool". And yeah, Carrie, we know you were so privileged to listen to cool college 80s rock, and that you did get exposed to that stuff via college radio (if you really DID listen to that back then). But the show should have been more centered on mainstream 80s music, because that's what the public associates with the term "80s Music". Most people, when hearing someone say "80s music" are not going to be thinking "Husker Du".
This was such a blatant attempt for Bob Boilen to show off in front of Carrie Brownstein.
I'm also ashamed to say that I'm shallow enough to like Sleater-Kinney a little less now.

Sent by clem | 8:54 AM ET | 09-16-2008

I do like the comment the round table made about sound production being the culprit of the 80's excesses but never judge a songs quality on its production. Example in point, Tears for Fears, the songs were actually good but done over the top with instruments that were not timeless.
I have heard cover versions of these songs and have reassessed my opinion of some 80's bands, some being a small number.

Sent by Joel | 1:34 PM ET | 09-16-2008

I'm a child of the 1980s, having been born in 1981. Yes, there were some crappy songs in that decade ("We Built This City" IS truly the worst song of all time), but as a whole, I enjoyed and still enjoy the music of that time, from Madonna to Michael Jackson to Kylie Minogue to Tina Turner to the one-hit wonders, from Nu Shooz to Timex Social Club to Toni Basil. I still listen to the music of those times to this day and would prefer it over any of the self-congratulatory and ego-stroking drivel that makes up 2000s music.

Sent by Alex Sarmiento | 11:44 PM ET | 09-16-2008

I did listen to your entire program (the podcast) and really enjoyed it. I'm 25, was born in 1983. I grew up in Germany but am not German-- I attended a Department of Defense school with other military dependents from all over the U.S. (lived there 17 years, till I was 18, graduated high school 2001). We had one American radio station (ZFM) and everything else was German radio. I wasn't old enough to fall in love with the eighties before it became 1990. But my mom made a lot of mix tapes that she played constantly when we went out in her car-- I was with her a lot, and got to know a lot of her favorite singers/bands/songs.
So part of it may be nostalgia as to why I love Hall & Oates.... but a lot of it isn't! I honestly enjoy them, maybe because everyone has at least one guilty mindless pop group/singer. And also because Hall & Oates may have been better than a lot of German music around at that time... though, yes, they borrowed a lot of American stuff. Germans loved Hall & Oates (go figure).
But I almost went to one of their concerts before I found out the price (I was a college student at Rutgers in New Brunswick, NJ and couldn't afford it, or find it quite worth my money in the end). WAY too many people in NJ are stuck in the 80s, evident in the same songs they always play at the end of every karaoke night. One friend of mine loves 80's music and even had a poster of Hall & Oates on his dorm door (he was born in 1984). He would have more "defend the 80's!!" things to say than me... he also worships Joey from Full House.
That's all, that's all...

Sent by Gina | 1:32 PM ET | 09-17-2008

To attempt to address the question raised early in the show, the only band I can think of that was better in the '80s than in the '70s is The Police. Sure, their early stuff wasn't bad, but nothing compares to the genius of "Synchronicity."

Sent by Rob | 1:41 PM ET | 09-17-2008

This program was hilarious! My mother emailed me the link to this because she knows that my fiance and I have this argument all the time. I grew up in the '90s, and he was born in 1980. He owns a satellite radio, and every time we get in the car, we have to wrestle over the channels, deciding whether we're going to listen to the '80s channel or the '90s. (I usually win!) I made him sit down and listen to this program, and although he had a rebuttle to every comment you made, I caught him laughing quite a few times. (Especially the "We Built This City" part...that's his favorite '80s song ever.)

I have to defend you guys a bit. Previous comments have pointed out that many bands that are now considered to be powerhouses in music were created in and influenced by the '80s (Nirvana, Coldplay, Radiohead, etc.), but they didn't have their biggest moments until the '90s.

All the best, guys! The show is wonderful!

Sent by Katie | 2:35 PM ET | 09-17-2008

I loved the 80s show! I really laughed (and sometimes cried).I think another one is in order and, hopefully, others will agree. If you do indeed to another, for good music keep Violent Femmes in mind. I didn't discover them until the early 1990s, but just loved them. I am not sure how common this phrase was in the 1980s, but in rural
Ohio we always joked "Big hair. Big hopes."
>
> Keep up the great work!
>

Sent by deana | 2:45 PM ET | 09-17-2008

I like the happy 80s. I've discussed w/my friends that right after the Nirvana days, all of the singers were whining about their middle class Gen Y lives. Oh Boo Hoo.

The other reason 80s rap may not have been featured? At the time, and even now, it wasn't considered music, much like the guy pounding on a plastic bucket as if they're drums. Entertaining, yes. Music to my ears? Not so much.

Sent by Richard | 5:11 PM ET | 09-17-2008

I know this has been said by many others already but its shocking you didn't talk about rap. Def. deserves its own show. That was my junior high schools years. But also ska. Every band in my high school in the 80's was a ska band. What about the Specials, English Beat, Madness?? I laughed my ass off listening to the show but there were real gaps. Oh and Prince. Are you kidding me? Dancing to Pop Life at 16 in '85 is one of my greatest memories.

Sent by Tanya | 12:10 AM ET | 09-18-2008

I've word-searched "Graceland" on this page and a good ten other people were disappointed that you guys looked it over.
used-record-store owner who sold me the record not so long ago called it "easily the best record of the eighties... and probably the nineties as well..."

He may be right; it's a phenomenal album. And I think Paul Simon might fit into the tiny category of artists in the 80's that DID do work better or on par with what they did in the 60's and 70's...

Sent by Andrew | 7:59 AM ET | 09-18-2008

I recently downloaded the "Were the 80s that bad?" episode and fully expected a round of exactly what you and your contributors provided i.e. The 80s were soulless and mercenary, the Ramones gave way to Kenny Loggins, and save college radio and a few exceptions, the entire decade was an interegum between Rock n' Roll High School and Smells Like Teen Spirit.

I accept that this is the prevailing wisdom in music criticism despite it being a) The most hackneyed cliche since "My parents don't understand me" and b) filled with logical holes. And because of that, I really expected better of you and your team, ordinarily some of the best music journalists in the business, succumbing to wholly-minded reasoning, puppy kicking and straw men.

Examples:

1). One need only listen to last week's episode of "Sound Opinions" featuring Danny Goldberg to hear that Kurt Cobain's career was hardly the shout of authenticity against 80s artifice we remember it as and that he was as obsessed with mainstream success as any Top 40 artist of the period.

2) It takes a certain blindness towards the history of popular music to believe that the melodic yet empty pap you and your guests featured on the show is somehow a blemish on the face of rock n' roll while (I'm guessing) you would hold the music of the Ronettes, The Brill Building and Phil Spector in high regard: equally studio-constructed, equally corporate driven, equally hell-bent on sales. That the monetary stakes were smaller doesn't make the aims of this previous generation any purer nor the artistry any greater just becase the Yamaha DX-7 hadn't been invented yet.

3) It's both simplistic and reductionist to make "stripped down", "restrained" and "no flourishes" the gold standard of music. Popular music is not a bespoke suit jacket and, at times, its excesses are part of its charm. Many may have felt grunge was a return to the genuine spirit of rock n' roll after a decade in the wilderness. Others like myself considered it joyless, self-important, sludge. Would you prefer David Bowie, Queen or The Arcade Fire be "stripped down" and "tasteful" or is their grandiosity what makes them unique?

4) This has been said many times already but where the heck was hip-hop? The 1980s gave us "Raising Hell", "Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back" and "Straight Outta Comption," revolutions in popular music, on the order of "Murmur" and "The Joshua Tree". Leaving them out of your narrative seems to play to the worst stereotypes of National Public Radio, that its a network for well-fed, Volvo-driving white people who consider hip-hop some foreign culture to be observed, tastefully, at a distance. That none of you found it worth uttering a word about struck me as myopic.

A misstep in an otherwise fine program. Keep up the good work. I'm still listening

Sent by Kevin Smokler | 10:28 AM ET | 09-18-2008

I liked the show overall; it especially started off engaging and funny. I thought it got bogged down when the panelists started talking about the "good" music like Hardcore and ?bands from New Zealand. There is a time for discussion of good music more obscure than mainstream, but during an hour on the music of an entire decade is not one of them! We're all impressed that you listen to Black Flag. But I would have rather you discuss talented artists that did make good use of the 80s technology like Prince, The Cure, and the B-52s. And this may sound out of leftfield on NPR, but I love Van Halen 1984!

Sent by C Tatro | 10:52 AM ET | 09-18-2008

This discussion is a crappy relic from the 1990s.

These gen-X'ers revert back to their high-school tendencies to spew half-baked Garafalo revisionism to prove their coolness.

Westerberg, REM, Sonic Youth and other irony-era heroes are just as guilty for bad cultural aesthetic (Hot Topic hipsterism ... Goo-Goo Dolls ... Neo-Rod Stewart hair ... Hindu Love Gods) as a synthed-out Glen Frey's cop-show musings.

The only African American artist mentioned on this broadcast was Tracy Chapman.

It's culturally biased to define a decade through the vendettas of a some former alt-rock theater kids.

Update from 1992: The jocks won.

Sent by Eric | 12:09 PM ET | 09-18-2008

I agree that pop of the 80's is the worst since recorded music began (I am 47 now, so 19 in 1980). I guess that is what drove me to look for alternatives to pop/rock around 1985 (I would not have been caught dead listening to anything remotely called country at the time). I did discover Dead Kennedys and things like that but never got into them totally. Eventually I moved to blues music and more country stuff like Lyle Lovett and Nancy Griffith and now I really love so many different types of music now no matter the label or who else likes it. So if the music had not been so bad then I might not have ventured out.

A few comments I have from the show:
* I agree that the Tracy Chapman record was a bright spot.

* I think that Springsteen's songs were just as good in the eighties but I agree the music had some of the same cheesy sound as other pop.

* I too hated Guns and Roses for years but my 13 year old son is starting to change my mind about them (Sorry Bob)

* There is a nostalgia about the eighties. Just look at the cover bands on the weekends for the college kids (at least in Chattanooga, TN).

*The Talking Heads were good in the eighties.

* I absolutely hate "We built this city". I could never believe there was a connection to Jefferson Airplane there. Still not sure there was.

*Was never a big REM fan but think they did do a lot to keep the 80's from being worse.

*I do not like videos because I don't want the song interpreted for me. Plus it is just another time I sit staring at the TV.

*You didn't talk about bands like REO Speedwagon, Journey, Styx, and that type of rock from the early to mid 80's. It was the precursor to the hair bands like Cinderella that you did talk about.

Sent by Ken Price | 1:18 PM ET | 09-18-2008

I listened to the eighties music program last week, and I have to say, my reaction was mixed. While you guys did seem very pretentious during the first half of the show, trashing a lot of music I actually like (and am not afraid to admit to liking) and skipping over several major records and bands who were around during the eighties making some pretty good music (at least you realized you forgot to include U2's The Joshua Tree), Carrie Brownstein got me totally hooked on The Bats. After listening to the program, I got on to itunes and immediately purchased the album "Daddy's Highway," which contains "North By North," the song you had on the program, and I absolutely love it. So, while I am a little miffed about some parts of the show, thank you, thank you a million times thank you for introducing me to a band I wouldn't have known about otherwise. Thanks!

Sent by Abby Olcese | 1:27 PM ET | 09-18-2008

I am a little late to the responding party here -- and his can't be the only response along these lines:

YOU DID AN ENTIRE SHOW ABOUT THE MUSIC OF THE 80s AND DIDN'T MENTION HIP HOP?

(sorry for the yelling, but I am still in shock)

(In fact, I don't believe any black artists besides Stevie Wonder and Bad Brains were mentioned. No black artists were played).

That is like doing a show about the 1970s and not mentioning punk. In fact, many argue that hip hop was a game changer in a way punk wasn't. Punk changed my life but hip hop changed music.

I got excited when I saw the topic of the show, wanting to hear a serious re-appraisal of both the sounds and legacy of the 1980s. Instead, most of the time was spent making fun of hair rock and one hit wonders. Would you spend almost half of a 70s show on Captain and Tenille? Then why waste so much time on forgotten bands like The Escape Club or making fun of bands like Hall and Oats and Journey? Yes a lot of 70s bands went bad in the 80s. But that is because they were bands from the earlier decade trying to stay fresh.

As was true in the 1970s, the real great music was mostly happening off the pop charts -- "left of the dial." I feel like -- besides Carrie Brownstein -- no one else approached the show wanting to take a serious look at all the things that were good about the decade. So while we did get some information about REM and The Replacements and Minor Threat we miss out on bands like The Smiths, X, Prince, The Feelies, The Pixies, The Swans, Cocteau Twins, New Order, Blondie, The Police, The Cure, Mission of Burma, U2, Gang of Four, Jane's Addiction, The Pogues, Kate Bush, The Pretenders, My Bloody Valentine, Boogie Down Productions, Jesus and Mary Chain, Public Image Ltd, Public Enemy, Run DMC, Sonic Youth, The Fall, XTC, Butthole Surfers, The Clash, Soft Boys, Flaming Lips,Cramos, Fetchin Bones, Metallica, De La Soul, Dinasour Jr, Eric B and Rakim, XTC, NWA, Violent Femmes, Michael Jackson, Husker Du, Misfits, Gang of Four, Elvis Costello, The Lemonheads, Madness, Bauhaus, Minutemen, Gorilla Biscuits, Fugazi. And this list doesn't even include all the great house and electronic dance music as well as underground hardcore from the deacade. Just because the hosts weren't listening to game changing music during that time doesn't mean it didn't exist.

I am excited you played The Bats (which, by the way, don't sound different from other bands of the 80s but in fact fall right within a low tech, chilton-influenced, back to basics sound that also was represented by REM, The Replacements, The Smiths and many other bands.) But I was sad that a great deal of time was spent playing songs like "We Built This city" for gag effect on what I hoped would be a show that delved into the real importance of music in the 80s.

But more than anything, the failure to even mention hip hop is astounding. Nothing has changed music -- or culture -- like the rise of hip hop. I love punk. Punk changed my life. But hip hop has really changed the world. Where the 80s really that bad? No. In fact, the 1980s were amazing. The 1980s were amazing because the 80s witnessed the birth of hip hop. (OK maybe 79 is the real birth-year, but the 80s is when hip hop emerged.) "Fight The Power". "Radio". "Walk this Way" These were all part of a revolution.

Sad to see that a show that could have been serious was focused in so many ways in discussing joke bands. I want to sign off by listing the top ten songs of 1977 according to Billboard. Yeah, '77 was the year punk broke. But here was what the country was actually listening to:

1. Boogie NIghts -- Heatwave
2. Undercover Angel -- Alan O'Day
3. Rich Girl -- Hall and Oats
4. I'm In You -- Peter Frampton
5. Don't Leave me This Way -- Thelma Houston
6. You Make me Feel LIke Dancing -- Leo Sayer
7. I'm Your Boogie Man -- KC and The Sunshine Band
8. Got to Give it Up Pt 1 -- Marvin Gaye
9. Couldn't Ge it Right -- Climax
10. Car Was -- Rose Royce

-- Brad Simpson
Los Angeles

Sent by Brad Simpson | 1:36 PM ET | 09-18-2008

Though I really enjoyed the discussion of great and awful 80's songs. I was sorry to hear no mention of rap or hip hop music. This was in my opinion the new music revolution of the 80's. Though it started in the 70's and went mainstream in the 90's there was some truly amazing hip hop in the 80's. Run DMC and Queen Latifah might have been a good place to start the discussion.

Elliott

Sent by Elliott Tepperman | 2:32 PM ET | 09-18-2008

You guys asked if any musician made better work in the 80's than the 70's. While it is obviously a huge stylistic change, I think that Tom Wait's 80's albums were superior, even against Closing Time.

Sent by Jameson | 3:44 PM ET | 09-18-2008

What about Bowie?!

Sent by Madison Rae | 8:13 PM ET | 09-18-2008

I was a bit disappointed in the dishing of the 80s. Music seemed to be chosen to show how bad it was. Don Johnson...kinda like picking William Shatner's Tambourine Man as a reflection of 60s music. 80s was many things...Music that became influenced by the new medium of video, the blending of world music (particularly African - Juluka) into mainstream NA tastes that also lead to the comebacks of some greats like Paul Simon. The 80s also saw the return of the political anthem which wasn't even touch on when talking about Tracy Chapman. The 80s was a period when I traveled alot around the world. Dire Straits was playing from Bangkok to Katmandu to Mumbai.

I could go on and on....The 80s, like any decade held a lot of different types of music for many different types of taste. It changed so much I think it would be hard to pick a sound that captured it all.

But I think that was a reflection of the age of the reviewers. If ya didn't life it then you only get the top 10 playlists as your memories.

Sent by Philip | 10:45 PM ET | 09-18-2008

No way I can read all the comments prior to mine, so forgive me if I tread ground previously trodden.

Much of the 80s sucked: too much synth (hey, I loved Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark), too much hair (I still had some), too much metal. But who can deny the lasting contributions REM, U2, The Replacements, Husker Du (no Kurt Cobain without the latter tow bands), Violent Femmes pumped into rock.

On the West Coast, we also were graced by X, Dream Syndicate, Translator, Romeo Void, The Dead Kennedys, and others-college radio KUSF made these rich years.

That's just a short list, a quick jab: framing music by time/date limits its space! I've been listening to music for over 40 years now; there's more moving music than I have time to listen to.

Sent by Crag Hill | 3:10 AM ET | 09-21-2008

thanks for a fantastically entertaining podcast on 80s music. I am a child of the 80s (born in '73) and I *loved* all of that crappy 80s music that is so embarrassing to admit nowadays. your programme allowed me to wallow in the embarrassment and relive some cringe-worthy music moments. the 80s were definitely that bad. I wish I still had my cassettes from that time period but they were all so bad I chucked them all by 1990.

Sent by jennifer covert | 1:29 PM ET | 09-21-2008

Thanks for the great 80's show. I was born in '70, so all of the eighties had an effect on me, for good and for ill. I do feel the need to mention the Beastie Boys, Jane's Addiction, The Cult, and The Black Crowes, all of which are still making incredible music. Oh yeah, there's also The Cure, Echo and The Bunnymen.

Sent by Michael Sobilo | 1:18 PM ET | 09-22-2008

This program made me realize that Hall & Oates could have been a great pop band. And no one mentioned Huey Lewis & the News (for good or bad).

Sent by David not Dave | 12:28 PM ET | 09-23-2008

The '80s bow in with the incredible BusBoys' album "Minimum Wage Rock & Roll".

Lucinda Williams' brilliant eponymous breakthrough? 1988.

Lyle Lovett's three best albums were released in the '80s: his debut in '86, "Pontiac" in '87 and "Lyle Lovett and His Large Band" in '89. All three recordings defied the synth-heavy format you discussed. Two of k.d. lang's strongest albums also debut in the late '80s: "Shadowland" in '88 and "Absolute Torch and Twang" in '89.

Prince created extraordinary music during the decade. "Dirty Mind", "1999", "Purple Rain", "Around the World in a Day", "Parade", "Sign o' the Times" are all critically acclaimed -- and bass-heavy -- and appear in 1980, '83, '84, '85, '86, and '87 respectively.

Power pop? Try the Hooters "Nervous Night" -- smack in the middle of the decade.

Art rock? Roxy Music's "Avalon" may be synth-laden, but it's also an unexpectedly lovely album, from the opening bars to its conclusion.

I think you owe the decade a second, less pedantic look.

Sent by GK | 6:00 PM ET | 09-23-2008

Fishbone

Sent by Victor | 9:30 PM ET | 09-23-2008

I can only think of one musician who made better music in the 1980s than in the 70s (or 60s). I think Yoko Ono's "Season of Glass" is her best record. And that's it. One. Wow.

Sent by Jesse | 10:36 AM ET | 09-25-2008

I'm just now getting around to listening to the podcast, and your point about production becoming so engineer-centric during that time reminded me of something Dave Wakeling of the English Beat and General Public said in a magazine interview about recoring the first GP album.

He related a story about laying down tracks, and something wasn't sounding right. He complained to an engineer, who pulled out a calculator and said something to the effect of "It's 3.45572. It's right."

Sent by John Olore | 10:57 AM ET | 09-25-2008

Ok - I guess somebody has to have the nerve to acknowledge that the "New Age" movement in the 80s was important musically. I would really like to hear a podcast discussing New Age, especially since Bob puts himself in the "Electronic Musician" Camp. Interesting How the category overlaps the electronic stuff and the softer acoustic sounds. It's influence is pervasive....

Sent by Den | 10:07 AM ET | 09-28-2008

I am jumping in late here (sorry, we listen to the podcasts once per month on a long drive and back)...

I agree that some of the horrid production methods are ear shattering.

However, many GOOD bands put out good music in the 80s (I know I am opening myself up here, but my wife and I had 12 hours to discuss this):

- The CURE. Clearly very influential, good stuff.

- The CLASH. Perhaps some of their music in the late 70s was noteworthy, but they put out some of the best work in the 80s

U2 - Um, hello?

(those were the three we felt most strongly about).

Others:

-The Police (mainstream, but...)
- The Pixies - influential
- The Misfits - influential in a different way
- Elvis Costello
- Prince (ok, similar bad production, but he made it work)
- Husker Du
- The Smiths (perhaps not so much in the US, but huge)
- Metallica (they starting stinking in the 90s)
- Jane's Addiction (OK, skewer me).

Anyway: It's easy to make fun of the soul-less keyboard music and Kenny Logins movie theme songs... but let's not forget there was some heart happening.

Sent by matt heindl | 11:34 PM ET | 09-30-2008

On your show about 80's music, the bold statement was made that no musical 'artist' was better in the 80's than the 70's.

I've been thinking long and hard about this, and I think I have some examples to disprove the rule:

Journey formed in 1973, but 1981's Escape album was probably their best one (even if the band is pretty terrible).

Roy Orbison had a big resurgence in the 80's and was largely absent from the 70's.

Nick Cave's 80's work with the bad seeds is generally better received than the 70's work with the birthday party.

If you ignore the velvet underground's loaded from 1970, lou reed's solo output in the 80's was better than the 70's--with New York, Blue Mask and Legendary Hearts. Furthermore, many of his best '70's' songs were really recycled unreleased stuff he originally recorded with V.U.: Oh Gin (Oh Jim), Sad Song, Satellite of Love, Andy's Chest, She's My Best Friend, I Love You, etc.

X--who was mentioned on your show as a great 80's band was formed in the 70's.

The kinks had a rebirth in the 80's as a heavy guitar rock band after petering out in the 70's.

Van Halen hit their peak in the 80's.

The Cure started in the 70's and found their success in the 80's.

Some people (not me) think Avalon (1982) is Roxy Music's best album.

Billy Idol got bigger (if not better) in the 80's after the demise of Generation X.

John 'Cougar' Mellencamp.

Michael Jackson.

I hate Styx. But they were probably bigger in the 80's than 70's. I can't tell if they're better because I despise all of it.

It's cheating to mention u2, replacements, husker du and inxs--since no commercial album was released in the 70's--but they did form in the 70's and become successful in the 80's.


Tony Baer, Madison, WI

Sent by Tony Baer | 10:54 AM ET | 10-03-2008

I'm just now listening to the 80's show. I found it to be the most pretentius 30's something show I've ever heard. It's almost as sickening as the stuff one reads on political blogs. Yuck!

OR, excuse me, I guess not being in my 30's I'm not considered to be a part of the generation that currently feels the need to pass judgement on a whole decade.

Actually, the seventies sucked.

Sent by Ralph Melcher | 9:34 PM ET | 10-04-2008

I'm curious, when you played G'n'R and everyone (except Bob) agreed that it was a phenomenal tune, what air instruments was everyone playing? Although I was driving, I alternated between playing the air guitar and air drums while listening-great pick BTW! It's a song that you have to play along with-even if you are totally inept at playing an instrument like me! Thanks for the great show!

Sent by Libby | 11:04 PM ET | 10-04-2008