A Bryant Park Guest Responds

I'm a gay man and have had several transgender friends over the years, both pre- and post-op (and male-to-female and female-to-male). I just listened to this segment, and upon seeing this blog post, just re-listened to it.

I don't know if or how the segment was edited, but from the podcast I don't hear what Susan's getting at. Perhaps the "do you feel like you were born in the wrong body" question Luke started off with might have rubbed Susan the wrong way and made the whole interview seem off-kilter to her.

Also, I've learned from my transgender friends that because by necessity of their situation they *must* expose a very private aspect of their lives very, very publicly, that they can value what remaining privacy they have to an almost obsessive degree. I've heard other transgender people being interviewed (such as on a Day to Day story in August, ) refuse to answer questions about whether they intend to surgically transition, whether they have children or family and/or how their family reacted, and so on.

I think since many of us had our first exposure to the idea of transsexuality from "Donahue" if we were lucky, or more exploitive talk shows if not, that it's easy to forget that such folks aren't freaks, they're human beings going through an immensely difficult and personal life changing experience in a way far more public than anyone going through this should have to put up with.

Long story short, Luke, I think you did fine, and I'd reassure Susan that *I* didn't hear the negative tone that she did, and I'm definitely on the lookout for it, having been interviewed on LGBT issues in the past.

Sent by Trey | 2:33 PM | 10-2-2007

I can see where Susan would be a bit disappointed; her e-mail reads as if we should be at the point where Luke should have not asked the 'common' questions.

It's as if the gender politics of the interviewer (and by extension the listeners) would simply take those things as read and move on to a higher level of interviewing simply because this is NPR. I think we were talking about this early in the beta blog...comprehension of transgender issues is far behind other segments of the gender spectrums.

Thing is, I think I would have asked similar questions.

Sent by Drew | 2:40 PM | 10-2-2007

It's really too bad Susan felt that way. And I don't know if it's any consolation to her, but what I took from the interview wasn't negative at all.

One of the things I liked about the segment was that it wasn't centered on drama or sensationalism. I thought Susan sounded like a pretty typical human being who was dealt an unfortunate hand but who is brave enough to do something about it. And then to go above and beyond and talk about it in a way that would help others understand. I honestly thought it was kind of feel-good.

And although I'm not in Susan's place and can't say how I'd feel if I were, to me Luke's questions sounded respectful and sincere. I didn't hear any judgment in them.

Sent by Maura | 2:45 PM | 10-2-2007

Ok, I think there were a few places in the interview where Luke tossed off a few questions one right after the other that I know would have flustered me if I'd been in Susan's place (and I think telling her that the fact that she hadn't gotten the Naples job was in the Tampa paper was a bit naughty) but otherwise I thought the interview was great and very sympathetic.

Sent by Susie | 6:36 PM | 10-2-2007

I just listened to the interview a couple of times, and I think Luke asked Susan questions that were totally appropriate. I know if I were in his shoes, I would have asked a similar line-up of questions. He was in no way offensive or degrading to Susan's lifestyle, but as Maura said, Susan is coming from a different perspective. I can't say how I would feel if I were in her shoes.

I liked Luke's questions surrounding Susan's family. As she mentioned, other families have transgender loved ones, and the reactions from her family may be helpful to families in a similar situation.

On a final note, one of the lousy things about over the phone interviews is that they're so darn informal. You may be talking to an incredible person, but are unable to nail the discussion head-on at times. Looking at someone when they are speaking to you can add so much more depth to an interview. I wonder how the conversation would have been different if Luke and Susan were in the same room talking about the same topic.

Props to Susan for coming on the show.

Sent by Sean Powers | 9:54 PM | 10-2-2007

Luke: The interview was fine. You asked the questions I wanted to know and that need to be asked.

Sent by Jim Trenton | 12:26 AM | 10-3-2007

From the perspective of someone who has never met a transgender person, although I'm very open minded and curious about transgender issues. I felt that Luke asked the same questions that I would have asked Susan if I could. I overall was very impressed with the interview.

Sent by Kathrine | 2:22 AM | 10-3-2007

i'm with the commenters above. i didn't walk away with any negative impressions from the interview or of susan. i do think that the issues transgendered people deal with is getting a human and sympathetic face on npr in luke's interview and on the truly memorable interview that "day to day" did with la times sports writer mike penner, now christine penner. i challenge the rest of the media (news, talk show) to raise the bar in showing respect to the transgendered, allow them to tell their own story without any prejudices, rather than the traditional sensational parading of them as freaks.

that said, it was a somewhat sad moment at the end of the interview when susan seemed to be the last one to find out that she was not going to get the city gov't posting.

Sent by josh | 4:25 AM | 10-3-2007

I must admit I was surprised and bothered by all the trans-101 questions. I think we're past that.

Sent by Owen | 7:15 AM | 10-3-2007

I'm glad Susan responded as she did. It was subtle, but Luke's feelings about Susan were obvious (and negative). The comment later in the show about "weird music for a weird (ie Susan) guest" was totally inappropriate, and telling. When Luke revealed today that he was brought up in a "conservative christian" home it was an "aha" moment.

Sent by tricia | 9:22 AM | 10-3-2007

Tricia, the reason I pointed out the odd music (which we don't pick by the way) was because I thought it could have appeared disrespectful, and that was the last thing I wanted.

If you can read my thoughts towards Susan, you are amazing (and wrong incidentally). But thanks for listening nonetheless. We always appreciate the feedback.

Sent by Luke Burbank | 12:36 PM | 10-3-2007

It's like Rashomon around here. To me, this is a really interesting aspect of communication that is one-way (like broadcast) or isn't face to face (like broadcast and the net). Different listeners can hear lots of entirely different subtexts in the briefest of comments.

I heard the conservative Christian thing and wondered whether there might be an interesting tale behind Luke's being raised in that environment and becoming an objective journalist with an occasionally risque sense of humor.

But heck, I don't know Luke from a hole in the wall either. Maybe I'm the one who's way off base. My point is that we're all listening to the same show, but it doesn't mean we're hearing the same things. And a forum like this is the only thing that reveals these differences. Think of all the wildly different interpretations and miscommunications that may well be happening in other contexts where we don't all get to chime in about it.

Sent by Maura | 1:08 PM | 10-3-2007

I was disappointed with Luke's interview--to the extent that I'll think twice before listening to the Bryant Park Project again. The tone was disrespectful, especially Luke's question, "What's the look in your son's eyes when he looks at you now and you're a woman?" It honestly sounded as if Luke wanted Susan's answer to be "loathing."

Sent by Joanne | 9:46 PM | 10-3-2007