Some fellow Chinese still believe that Zhang Heng's invention can "predict" earthquakes.

Talking about pride - a few entries before, this blog mentioned about the chanting and singing in Chengdu's Tianfu Square during the mourning. (The comments quickly turned into discussions about whether or not earthquakes can be "predicted".) The chanting of "Go China" (as if there were a game of China vs. another country), with fists in air and tears streaming down, also happened, spontaneously, in Beijing and other cities. It was clearly beyond mourning. It not only showed national pride (that "we are winning even if you want us to lose"), but anti-western sentiments among the younger generation of Chinese. (The sentiments may show themselves more on Chinese living overseas.) I wonder how many western media got the message.

Sent by Sichuanese2 | 10:11 AM ET | 05-22-2008

Your coverage like this one is amusing, personal and accurate. I enjoy reading your blog. I grew up in eastern part of China and never travelled to Si Chuan. Now I have learned more about this part of China through your coverage. Thank you for the hard work! Salute!

Sent by Luke | 10:27 AM ET | 05-22-2008

Sichuanese2:
you need to learn your history better, Di Dong Yi was meant to "detect", not "predict". In ancient times, message of an earthquakte will take days if not months to get to the emperor, in that sense, it is a "predictor", at least for the people in the capital. As for the fist pumping after the mourning, there is nothing wrong with it. For one thing, people need to stand up after disaster and life goes on. There are cries of encouragements. Are we suppose to cry all day long and curl up in a corner waiting for the pity from others instead? Second, so what if the Chinese shows pride? The actions and sprits of the Chinese people shown during and after the earthquates make me very proud of being a Chinese because they show a society clearly full of humanity and love. They also show that the wealth the nation has been building up really had postive impacts to the rescue efforts as well as quality of life after the earthquake.

Sent by Will | 12:18 PM ET | 05-22-2008

When the DiDong Yi (DiDong = earthquake, Yi = instrument) was inverted, the capital of the Han dynasty was in Xi An where was also haunted by earthquakes for hundreds of years. There are some written records about the successful monitoring of some big earthquakes.

Sent by C. Liang | 12:57 PM ET | 05-22-2008

We are thankful to all the NPR staff and their touching reports.

Can someone there in Chengdu make them some real Sichuan "twice cooked pork (hui-guo-rou) and "kong-bao chicken" (gong-bao-jiding). The two dishes came recommended. Hate to see them coming home without trying them out.

Sent by hao | 1:24 PM ET | 05-22-2008

Will???

1, yes, I know that "Di Dong Yi was meant to 'detect', not 'predict'", and that's also what Brendan said too.
2, I agree that there is nothing wrong to encourage each other, and I agree that Chinese people, like those who treated the ATC crew so nicely, are kind and "clearly full of humanity and love". Being a Chinese, I am also proud of my compatroits. However, I was just pointing out that there is also "clearly" strong anti-Western sentiments demonstrated in the "fist pumping". The "Go China" chanting was recently used in anti-Western protests after the Tibetan riots and torch relay incidents, in China and in other countries. There is certain continuity here. I did not make any moral judgement on whether that's good or not in my last comment. I just made my observation that the Western mdia
may have missed this side of the story. But I would like to say in this comment that I don't think the anti-Western, nationalist sentiments fit the humanist spirit of mourning and respect for the dead victims. The Chinese government deserves commendation for setting up the three Days of Mourning, and I think such sentiments and action did not help China to show its "positive impact".

Sent by Sichuanese2 | 1:47 PM ET | 05-22-2008

The younger generation nationalists generally view West as China's enemy whose only motivation is to stop China from "emerging" and who would do anything they can to sabotage and ruin China. I've seen too many "conspiracy theories" on the Chinese Internet. Even the humanist help Western countries offered for the earthquake was belittled. Even NPR was regarded as part an "important anti-China force" (e.g., see the comments in this Chinese posting: http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/SanDiego/31195070.html ). I don't think there is anything hmanistic or positive in that. Of course, I am not alone (among Chinese) either.

Sent by Sichuanese2 | 2:19 PM ET | 05-22-2008

hao,

I would love to cook some "twice-cooked pork" for any of the crew when s/he comes back to the U. S. I live near DC. My Hui Guo Rou is pretty famous among local Chinese friends, and I can get all authentic ingrdients in the Chinese supermarket here.

Sent by Sichuanese2 | 2:26 PM ET | 05-22-2008

I'm an American living in China since 2000, I don't feel like the unity displayed by the Chinese people is anti-Western, as it was during the Carrefour/CNN episodes. I feel like it is a case of the country rallying together to deal with a massive tragedy. I can read and speak Chinese and no media reports I have read nor conversations with Chinese people that I have had have given me any feeling that the earthquake has been turned into an 'us vs them' situation. I think it's primarily a case of China vs bad luck. Keep in mind aside from the Tibet/Carrefour/CNN episodes, this year much of China including Sichuan suffered from one of the worst winter storms it has seen in more than 50 years.

Sent by Chris | 2:42 PM ET | 05-22-2008

Correct me if I am wrong, I don't understand why Chinese people's unifying efforts to support each other to go through this tough time has anything to do with anti-western sentiments. When 911 happened, everyone here in this country did the same thing. This is a time for everyone reaching out to help and support each other.

If there is anything, it's the March terrorist attack in Tibet China, the violent disruption of Olympic torch relay tolerated or in some case even supported by some western government officials, and the overwhelmed biased misleading western media (in some case they drop so low to the extent of using fake photos to report), which make Chinese people realize they have to band together to survive, otherwise their home may be broken again, and human rights will be just a dream. And that, is not any natural disaster, but horrendous crime conducted in the name of justice.

Sent by yang | 3:10 PM ET | 05-22-2008

Thanks Chris for clearing that up. I hope that Sichuanese2 reads it. don't make something, anything for that matter, into what you want it to be. By the way, I cann't pick up what Sichuanese2 got out of the Chinese blog website. Maybe one or two are like him/herself.

Sent by cz | 4:25 PM ET | 05-22-2008

I believe that some (I don't know how many) of Chinese don't trust Westerns, although this has nothing to do with the earthquake, as far as I can see. This is also a part of Chinese government propaganda. Just see what capitalists, sometimes through organizations like World Bank to hide their true intention, did to many nations. They left many people in poverty. A reference I came across is a book called "economic hit man". Anyway, I think most Western are not bad, at most ignorant. This has been discussed here several days ago and is not necessary to repeat. Just my two cents

Sent by A chinese student in U.S. | 4:55 PM ET | 05-22-2008

Chris, since you read and speak Chinese, I am very surprise by your statement that you have not read or heard any comments with anti-western sentiments. There are plenty of postings I have read on the Chinese cybersphere that clearly express that sentiments. I can give you many, many links if you like. (You can read the link about NPR, which I gave above, in Chinese, first.) That being said, I can easily understand that the Chinese people you know and the Chinese media you read/hear do not show any of that (just like the ATC crew only met very friendly Chinese people in China). People sometimes speak more honestly on the Internet behind an "ID" ("Ma Jia", or "vest", for Chinese netters).

Actually, yang's comemnts just below yours gives a good example of that sentiment. According to people with that point of view, the West's "horrendous crime" is even worse than "natural disaster" like this earthquake.

Sent by Sichuanese2 | 5:07 PM ET | 05-22-2008

I am not naive enough to believe that western media, or country, or organizations, are all good and selfless. I just cannot identify with those "conspiracy theories" (there are those in teh U. S. too, like Rev. Wright's about aids). Many people, organizations, private companies in "the West" have donated to help the diaster relief for the quake, and showed sincere, humanistic care. I cannot agree that it is "horrendous crime" or there is any hideous anti-China agenda behind the action.

Sent by Sichuanese2 | 5:16 PM ET | 05-22-2008

Sichuanese 2:

Where on earth did you get your "antiwestern feeling"'s point from? The mourning shows solidarity, love and unity of the nation and the people. Why do you have to link the pure and raw human emotion with politics? At time of the crisis, on a such enoumous scale, we do not need that, we need more compassion, understanding and encouragement. Please.

Sent by Ingram | 5:17 PM ET | 05-22-2008

As a Sichuanese myself (grew up in Chengdu), I think this Sichuanese2 person has generalized too much of his personal feeling here. There is nothing anti-Western in shouting "Go China" after mourning the earthquake victims.

Sent by Xi Lin | 5:31 PM ET | 05-22-2008

Why should a rally (even with fist pumping) be interpreted as a response to anti-western sentiments? Could it not be interpreted as simply an internal rallying point to show fellow Chinese they are united in their grief and resolve to help those affected? Although, it cannot be compared in magnitude, there were no unifying rally to help those displaced in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina made landfall. We, from the west should not view this from a political view. The earthquake recovery efforts within China may open up more individualistic good works than anticipated.

Sent by Joe - USA | 5:54 PM ET | 05-22-2008

hi, Chris,

Please search internet for protest in front of Mcdonalds in Nanchong city and the special list of iron roaster of Western corporations.

Then you can talk.

Sent by feihong | 6:05 PM ET | 05-22-2008

"But I would like to say in this comment that I don't think the anti-Western, nationalist sentiments fit the humanist spirit of mourning and respect for the dead victims."

First, I am really not sure how you are going to draw the line; it was all spontaneous at that moment in time. They were cries of encouragements, just like how an athletes pumping their fists when facing a contest. Does anyone view that as insult to other competitors? So please stop being so self conscious about it.

Second, the Chinese people should be freely and have every right to express their feelings toward the West and to wish the nation to grow stronger from the ruins of this tragic disaster. If there are anti-west sentiments expressed during the mourning, it was a psychology reflection of the people's frustration on the series of unfortunate events since beginning of the year and on the behaviors of the West. I have been living in the US since 1991 and have seen too much media bias in the past. The Western Media and to a larger extent the West politicians seem have made it a standard requirement that one must present China with a negative tone. If the Chinese do not stand up for themselves, no one will. Trust me "mercy" is never given, but earned. If the West did feel somehow the Chinese became a little less friendly(btw, the Chinese "friendliness" often interpreted by the Western mind as being weak and submissive), I say good for them because this will be a good time for them to reflect upon themselves. I can foresee that the Olympics Games and earthquake will have profound impact on China's relationship with the West and more importantly on the next generation Chinese's who often hold too na??ve and too simplistic view of the West.

I think I understand some level of your argument/discomfort. Chinese thoughts are often too deeply engrained by the Confucius school of "??????"???Remember the famous "????????????"by General Chang? And see what happened afterward. Did Japan ever really????????????"back to China? "??????"only works when all parties involved hold the same belief and behave accordingly. The West certainly don't play games that way, heck, we Chinese don't even play that way in history. ""??????" is a way you use to rule others, not to be used to regulate yourself. Nation States have no long-term memory, not even short-term memory. All activities are driven by the interest of the state. Do not expect others to remember how nice you were, but stand up to protect every rights have at all times and make everyone understand will you stand. In that aspect, I have to say the developed nations have practiced that to extreme, and China is merely mimicking, yet to learn the truth meaning of it.

Sent by Will | 6:46 PM ET | 05-22-2008

Don't worry, Sichuanese2 and feihong, with your help, I am sure the western media will get the message!

Ever since May 12th, I have seen some blood chilling things, but there have been much much more that are heartwarming. Some people choose to see flaws and evil in everyone and everything. China has 1.3 billion plus people. If that's what you are looking for with a magnifying glass I am sure you will succeed. I have seen messages like 'The earthquake is karma for China', and most of these messages are usually from two groups of people. One's true color really shows in the time of crisis.

Sent by wec080 | 10:03 PM ET | 05-22-2008

Thank you NPR for reporting form Chengdu China.

Sent by Tom | 10:22 PM ET | 05-22-2008

I really doubt Sichuanese2 is a Chinese at all. Why you are so eager to bring politics into such a blog entry that has nothing to do with politics at all?

Sent by C. Liang | 10:40 PM ET | 05-22-2008

To hear All Things Considered daily out of China is just amazing to a long time listener. Thank you so much for all the wonderful reports, its so well done I can even visualize it in my mind.

Sent by Jean of San Deigo | 12:59 AM ET | 05-23-2008

I wasn't expecting to ruffle so many feathers by insinuating that the Chinese aren't blaming the West for the earthquake. I must be incapable of seeing the truth because the 5 million people of Kunming are all going out of their way to pull the wool over my eyes, thanks for showing me the light Sichuanese 2!

Sent by Chris | 2:07 AM ET | 05-23-2008

This Didong Yi is a source of pride for the Chinese. China as a nation has great aspirations because they know various periods of time in history China had made tremendous contributions to science, art, and everything we attribute to great civilizations.

Didong Yi is a powerful symbol of that.

With the recent progress China has made on the economic front, there is a genuine collective psyche amongst the Chinese population that its time for them to achieve greatness again.

[But the mind-blowing thing about China is that the country is rich and super poor at the same time as evidenced by this disaster in rural areas of Sichuan.]

Back to the earthquake - it hasn't been reported widely, but the Senate passed a resolution to mourn the victims of this disaster.

"U.S. Senate adopts resolution to mourn victims of China earthquake"

http://www.thechinesecentury.org/2008/05/us-senate-adopts-resolution-to-mourn.html

On a human level, this is so right.

Sent by huaren | 2:51 AM ET | 05-23-2008

I think some Chinese still believe that seismic instrument can predict earthquake. It is because the misunderstanding from the textbook we learned when in the elementary school.
However, the history is yesterday. And people are living in today. We should focus on the future and think about how to make a better world but not immerge ourselves in the glory belonging to our forefathers. Mother Nature is powerful. But human-beings are too anal-expulsive to control the world. Should we reflect upon our mistakes and mend before all things are too late?

Sent by Song Qiuying | 7:26 AM ET | 05-23-2008

I am amused to see some new "conspiracy theories", about myself this time -- that I am not a Chinese, but a westerner disguised as one to do hideous anti-China sabotage, as part of the big evil anti-China conspiracy. Or I am a member of one of the "two groups" (meaning Fa Lun Gong and Free Tibet, or Pro-Democracy?) Thanks for providing supporting evidence to what I wrote above. (For those who may be interested in the truth, I lived in Chengdu until I was 26. I do not belong to any political organization, and I do not believe in FLG at all.) I am thankful to NPR (a western media itself) that we are allowed to talk about things "political" here (unlike the BBS or blog in China, where words posted may be "filtered" and anything considered to be "politically incorrect" may be accused of "harming the nation" and immediately deleted or blocked). Thank goodness NPR is not a state-run "throat and tongue (Hou She) of our Party", as the media in China are SUPPOSED to be. As for where I get my information from, I don't think my sources are much different than where other Chinese in the U. S. get their information from, although I probably read and write more on the Chinese Internet than average. And thanks to some of the fellow Chinese here, we don't even need to go anywhere else or read Chinese, because they may be able demonstrate those "sentiments" and thoughts well even in English. Yes, we are all limited to our personal experience. Nobody knows it all (and you have all the freedom to interpret the fist-pumping whatever you want it to be). But for me, I would choose to speak the truth, even if it's "inconvenient" to some "patriot" people, or government, or political party. Some accused western media to have forged fake things. I support the efforts to tell the truth and to expose any media actions that are against true journalism. (Meanwhile I'm also much aware that the "throat and tongue" in China is not even comparable when it comes to telling the truth.) But I just do not agree with the idea that only singing praises is proper and patriot.
And it's beyond irony that one wants to cover up the "dark side" in China while accusing others of not telling the truth. The day before yesterday, I listened to NPR ATC's report from Chengdu about the suburban farmers who lost their home and land. The crew interviewed Mr. Huang Qi, who was ever put in jail for speaking out the truth to advocate for those farmers' human rights. I am sure that such report would be resented by some Chinese as "picking bones inside the egg shell", or making things "political", or being part of the anti-China conspiracy, or even another "horrendous crime" committed by western media against the Chinese people. But for me, it's just honest journalism that deserves commandment. Also, to me, exposing the "dark side" or being critical to a government or political party is not an action of treason, but can be true patroism. Fortunately I am not alone among Chinese. While extreme nationalism dose exist among some young people (called "Feng Qing" -- "angry youth"), many Chinese have a rational attitude to it. If you can read Chinese, taking a look at the (many) debates on the Chinese Internet would help you appreciate that (e.g., the MaoYan, "Cat's Eyes", BBS in China: http://club.cat898.com/newbbs/list.asp?boardid=1 )
Chris, the McDonald incident (the anger came from the alleged low donation for the quake relief) is just one example. And I already said that I can understand that people in China you met and saw did not show any of the extreme nationalist stuffs. The Chinese people are generally nice and kind. And many suffer a lot, not only from the earthquake. That's why I wept so much for them for the last week. Nationalist ideology is not natural, but infused by "brain washing" (to borrow another Chinese friend's comments about people in the West -- the fact is that people in the West may be "ignorant", but at least they have basic freedom to access information).
BTW, I cannot agree at all the ridiculous "quake is karma" theory (granted it may not mean for China or Chinese people, but for the government or the party). It's a natural disaster in which many good people lost their lives. However, I do not appreciate the "us vs. nature" mentality either. Nature is not Chinese people's enemy, nor is people in the rest of the world.

Sent by Sichuanese2 | 10:30 AM ET | 05-23-2008

I must tell you that, this Didong Yi was stolen or robbed by one of the western country in early 20th century.
But I still love this story, because it introduced some Chinese histories to western people. China has 5000 years brilliant history, and there are "Four Great Inventions" in history. Though in modern time, China fell behind, but I think China will contribute many inventions to the world before too long.

Sent by Dallas | 10:48 AM ET | 05-23-2008

I pray that China, the country I am from, will become prosperous and progressive, contributing positively more to the world, respecting more the universalist values of democracy, freedom and human rights, and being more harmonious (to borrow the official language) with the rest of the (now already globalized) world. For that, I also pray for the Chinese governmrnt, which showed progress this time after the quake, to continue making improvement. (In that I differ with any anti-government political ideology too.)

Sent by Sichuanese2 | 12:13 PM ET | 05-23-2008

"Nationalist ideology is not natural, but infused by "brain washing" -Sichuanese2

Oh, come one! Which country does not have Nationalist ideology? Now I really start to doubt if you live on this earth.

Why are you so afarid of it? I have read a analogy somewhere, I can't remember it exactly but it goes something like this, "When someone accuse a Western country has a scar, the Western country will punch you in the face, but if a Western country says China has a scare, China would strip down naked and prove to everyone that she has no scar." Some of the my fellow Chinese really lacks confidence when face the West because they has lost it for 150 years, they have forgot how a behave confidently and worry too much about what if the West thinks this or that about China's behaviors. I don't not support the extrem nationlism like Nazi Germany or WWII Japan, but wake up, nationlism exits in every country and we Chinese just started to catch up. We need a good does of nationlism in China, it is about time.

Sent by WX | 12:44 PM ET | 05-23-2008

Didong Yi(seismic instrument) is a device which was said being able to detect EQ but not predict them. It's more like a master piece of art rather than anything functional. It has been recorded in history book that the instrument successfully detected one EQ several hundred years ago which happened hundred miles away but there's no such thing since then.

Sent by H Chen | 1:52 PM ET | 05-23-2008

WX, I am "afraid of", or rather, cautious about, extreme nationalism, for the same reasons you are. And some of those AY ideologies certainly qualify as extreme to me, and to many other Chinese. Defending for such extreme ideologies is not a sign of confidence, but shows lack of rationality, to me and to many other Chinese.

Sent by Sichuanese2 | 10:51 AM ET | 05-24-2008

It dose not make it right, or natural, or rational, that there are people having a certain ideology in every country on earth

Sent by Sichuanese2 | 12:45 PM ET | 05-24-2008

"Even NPR was regarded as part an "important anti-China force" (e.g., see the comments in this Chinese posting: http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/SanDiego/31195070.html ). "-Sichuanese2

To Sichuanese2:

It looks like you are a big fan of NPR. So am I and I believe a lot of Chinese are. After reading your comments I checked the link in your post immediately. Fortunately, I am a Chinese with a good master of the language. There is only 1 post among 20 showed negative commonts on NPR. How could you draw a conclusion like "Even NPR was regarded as part an 'important anti-China force'" without any limitation, as if majority of Chinese share that opinion? I agree that extrem nationlism is dangerous. But this maybe another topic you may find a better circumtance to discuss. I really couldn't get that why you are SO sensitive about the politics, even when the country was mourning the loss of thousands of lives. More than that, you were SO ready to find even tiny clue to support your OWN opinion!

Let's also talk about the only negative comment on NPR. I'd rather write that one addressing NPR in another entry.

Sent by NiuNiu | 12:13 AM ET | 05-25-2008

To NPR:

The only negative comment on npr in the link cited in prior post is about the stand of npr on the Tibet issue. Though I believe a lot of Chinese (including myself) love npr, the npr's stand on the Tibet issue is not acceptable. I always feel that npr's program is wise, objective and full of humanity and love. However, I couldn't get why npr is also so ready to take a stand on the Tibet issue before a thorough understanding about the history and the relation of Tibet and China. If Tibet should be granted the right to be independent, why should not the southern government in the American Civil war? If the Tibetan's rights are said to be affected, how about the American native Indians? Why is there no American media standing up to try to reverse the history to give the country back to the native Indians? I feel that there are two different criteria held by some western media.

Having said all above, npr is still my most favoriate station. Especially, thank you so much for the hard working in reporting the earthquake in China. You guys really have keen eyes on all the subtle details that are warm and touching. Keep on good job and take good care of yourselves.

These comments seem to be irrelvant to the topic on this page. The owner of this blog may feel free to post it in another appropriate place. Thanks.

Sent by NiuNiu (Sounds like New New) | 12:56 AM ET | 05-25-2008

"rationality"? I laugh at such simplistic view of any society. Are you really so naive, this debate really starts to amaze me now. You need to come down from your high horse. We have a saying in Chinese referring to what you, that is "singing in high tone". You need to get use to people have wide range of views, it is a sign of a healthy society. No need to get horrified and be afraid it would offend the "friendly nations" like the famous Chinese auther Lu Xun said.
BTW, of course it is natural when it exists everywhere. Isn't it almost the definition of nature? I am not saying it right or wrong. There is no right or wrong with nationalism.

I will end my response right here on this topic. It has been an interesting exchange, it certainly taught me some thing. Have a good weekend.

Sent by WX | 2:01 AM ET | 05-25-2008

I disagree with some netizens' calling for pressure on those stars or giant corporations who, they believed, gave too little. Would those netizens be satisfied with it if all in the future would cautiously negotiate for a settled sum before sending their help?
What I can't understand is why Sichuanese2 singled out the MacDonald incident or attacking words in BBS and blogs as the proof of "anti-western" sentiment.
Firstly, those under attack involves not only western companies but a lot of Chinese stars including Yao Ming and Liu Xiang, who sometimes enjoy the status as national heros, as well as Chinese companies. Obviously, these words proved invalid (It is claimed that Yao Ming donated much less than what he did for Katrina disaster and MacDonald's did nothing) and the anger was over any so-called "immoralities" rather than only the West.
Secondly, we always filter out conciously or unconciously the contents that we don't want to hear, especially when we want to find the evidences to support our arguments. Yes there are endless anti-western words on the internet but there are also a lot of different voices with rationality.(There are western protesters trying to grab the torth but there are also white guys waving Chinese national flag.)The words spread in BBS should not be counted as exit polls because the BBS users tended to be a group with similar ideas and those with different ideas would simply go to other places. The conclusion of extreme nationlism or anti-west sentiments based on BBS is inadequate.
The Freedom Fries incident (French Fries again nowadays, I hope?)might be a more serious anti-west movement because it was started by Republican Representatives instead of faceless and nameless netizens.

Sent by Lee | 2:51 AM ET | 05-25-2008

As of this morning the death toll from the quake and it's aftershocks stands near over 60,ooo people and is rapidly approaching 80,000. In the U.S. you cannot find five minutes of video or news on this great catastrophe. Cnn, Fox, msnbc, etc. Nothing. I realize this is not a political site and I love the folks at NPR. But where can I go to search for news. I found this great spot while searching the web and found the stories fascinating. But now I am back to the search for real hard news.
Any Ideas ??

Sent by joseph watson | 6:21 PM ET | 05-27-2008

Thanks for the post. I stayed at the Sheraton in Chengdu on numerous occasions too. I remember the DiDong Yi next to the entrance. Sigh, I remember thinking it was kind of neat for them to replicate the DiDong Yi in Beijing. So sad...

Sent by Jane | 6:17 PM ET | 05-28-2008

To Joseph Watson,

There are many websites built recently for updates on the quake and its aftermath, one of them I found is:

www.chinaearthquake.wordpress.com

Sent by global citizen | 1:25 PM ET | 06-13-2008