We Versus The Shark Interview
The first time I ever heard We Versus The Shark was earlier this year at the SXSW music festival in Austin. I had left a packed and muggy show at Emo's in search of air and perspective. I walked along the street until I saw a banner that read, 'Athens in Austin', and though I have always had an admiration for the small town scene, I stepped inside because the room was nearly empty. It took a few moments until I really tuned into the band onstage. What drew me in was the adoration from the small group of onlookers: the fist raising, body convulsing, letting loose of all propriety glee. I asked a long haired guy for the name of the band and joined in the dance (albeit figuratively.) Shortly after, in a blog post from the festival, I described the band as a baby made by Fugazi and Primus.
We Versus The Shark formed out on the Internet. Not from a 'musicians wanted' ad but from a mutual love of The Dismemberment Plan and an online community based around the group. I love this story because it is an old one. In previous decades, the band members would have met via fanzines or letters. Whatever the means of uniting, it is always a relief to throw out a rope and find like-minded people on the other end.
WVTS embody a splendid urgency. Their songs attack themselves like a self-annihilation before turning the energy outward; they are little tornadoes. The music is frenzied and discomfited but always trenchant.
The interview was conducted via email. A fourth band member, Sam Paulsen (guitar, keyboards, vocals), was unavailable to answer questions.
Carrie Brownstein: We've all heard the cliche "verse chorus verse" when describing a song. When I saw your live show, I was struck (and impressed) by the amount of parts each song had. I was wondering how you label each part during the songwriting process? Alphabetically? Numerically?
Luke Fields (guitar, keyboards, vocals): Actually, we only really use the basic terms. Verse, chorus, intro, outro, bridge. Most songs start out as a verse-chorus pairing and grow out towards the beginning and end from there. Other parts kinda grow and mutate from the original two and become variants, and get called "second chorus" or "loud verse" for distinction. We'll s1/2ivide some sections into A and B and so on, but for the most part we just communicate with the good old pop song structure vocabulary.
Scott Smith (drums, vocals): I think we use any label we can possibly think of for the parts during the writing process- the "cool slow outro" might not be added to the end of a song until we've satisfied some kind of feeling that would justify us tacking on a part like that.
Jeff Tobias (bass, keyboards, vocals): I realize we have some sort of knotty arrangements, but a lot of our parts are just sort of inversions/reversals of other parts, or brief transitions.
CB: Do your songs come out of improvisation as a band or are you more likely to bring in nearly finished pieces?
Luke: Both. Jeff and I will often bring in zygotes, full skeletons, fingernails, or eyeballs of songs. The rest of the band fleshes it out and the song adjusts to what everyone else is doing. Full songs are rarely brought in. Sporadic creation often stems from one of Scott's drumbeats. He pounds away at something amazing and we try and keep up.
Jeff: Luke or I will bring in half-to-three-quarters-baked ideas, and we'll sort of flesh out the jams in practice. Scott will call my phone and leave voice mails of beats a few times a week, and some of our best songs come out of those.
Listen to "Hello Blood" from 'Dirty Versions.'
CB: Whereas some bands exude a purely inspired approach to playing, or are less technically proficient than they are good songwriters, WVTS demonstrate a masterful approach to their instruments. What are your musical backgrounds and how long has each of you been playing? Also, it is generally known that just because one can shred on guitar doesn't mean one should solo for every second of every song, can you explain the delicate balance between showing off one's skills and actually writing good songs?
Luke: I'm self-taught. I started playing guitar when I was eleven, and I'm 25 now. I read Guitar World and learned all the 90's hits (and shits) from the back of the magazine. Had a few people like my father and family friends show me scales and chords and such here and there. After a while I got better at learning by ear and that's been my only real method of learning about guitar since high school. None of us are really shredders, per se, maybe Scott... but we're all into good songwriting AND good musicianship. They obviously don't have to be mutually exclusive or even separated within the confines of a song. Why shine for thirty seconds of a song and then dip back in when the whole song can be a place to shine? If you view every piece of a song as important, there's no desire to "commandeer" your own section... everything is everybody's.
Scott: I began drumming when I was 5 years old, and followed the public school music program track all the way through my first year in college. Formal music education dominated much of my life until I discovered the rock scene in Athens - as they say--punk rock changed my life. So I've had the privilege of playing music with classically trained technical wizards only to then be humbled by the sheer power of a well-written pop song, and my approach to playing percussion has fallen into an area somewhere between the two. If a song is supposed to convey a message, the technicality should agree with the message and be as complex or as simple as that message asks for.
Jeff: My mom was an elementary school music teacher, so I've been playing music from a pretty young age. I started playing bass guitar when I was thirteen. I played in weird punk bands throughout high school, and I totally blew off my prog rock friends' taste in music. I super fuckin hated that stuff, and even now, technical proficiency always takes a backseat in my mind to what the songs are accomplishing. For example, I can get behind some Yes these days due to the epic, shining moments of pure glory on "Close to the Edge." Chops can be a nice bonus in a band, but my only requirement for enjoying something on a basic level is honesty.
We Versus The Shark. From L to R: Luke Fields, Sam Paulsen, Jeff Tobias, Scott Smith. Photo by Mike White.
photo credit: Mike White
CB: As songwriters, how do you reconcile the desire to make challenging music with the need people have for instant gratification? Or, assuming that you also aren't immune to pop, how do you marry discord with ease?
Luke: Americans will always have a strong lean towards instant gratification. That's just the way we're raised. Shit, I like the simple stuff, too. My main problem is that if I start to get bored of what I'm playing I can't believe that other people will be interested in it. I don't even think we're that busy, musically, compared to a large part of our peer group. Bands in the post-Hella period who keep reaching back and finding Zappa and Ornette Coleman and others guilty of saturation are inclined to CRAM IT IN (not that there's anything wrong with that) and view us as a ittle too poppy. On the other hand... compared to bands that continue to evolve from the Strokes and Franz Ferdinand and such, we seem like we are actually INCAPABLE of counting to four. It's a weird middle ground between challenging and rewarding and it doesn't always pay off for us. When it does, though, people love it.
Scott: I have a personal trend towards instant gratification, but I want to be gratified by complex songs! Like any art, one man's trash is another man's treasure. We have a lot to get off our chests musically, and hope that when we release it all it strikes some chords in the listener. My obsession with bands like Deerhoof or Mastodon didn't happen overnight, it grew as I spent more time with each band until the music rooted itself in my s1/4onscious. These bands sound like obnoxious noise to many people, and I can't help that as much as I can't help how crowds respond to WVTS... some crowds love it, some are indifferent, and some get as far away as they can possibly get.
Jeff: When I realized that Wolf Eyes had the huge following that they do, it really sunk in for me that just about anything can find an audience in the music world. There are definitely folks from the sort of Frank Zappa-land that are into us because of, y'know, all the notes. But I'd rather be grouped in with bands due to attitude and ideals than how many notes we play per song.
Listen to "Mr. Ego Death" from 'Dirty Versions.'
CB: What musical comparison would make you cringe?
Luke: None really make me cringe. We still get the Dismemberment Plan although it doesn't really show in what we play these days. The weirdest have been Tool and Motorhead. If people ever sniff out the embarrassing nu-metal artifacts in a few of us, that'll make me cringe. Don't say Jimmie's Chicken Shack!
Scott: I'm personally impressed with anyone who compares our music to anything resembling music. That means they've actually listened.
Jeff: The only time I cringe due to band-comparisons is when I hear the following phrase: "Y'all like the Mars Volta?"
CB: Athens, GA has a long and vaunted history as a music town. Compared to the scenes of the late 70's, 80's and 90's, is there still a theme coursing through the town? Or is there a new element that defines the music scene?
Luke: It's a bit of a hydra at the moment. I thought the noise scene was going to elevate but I haven't heard as much from any of the noise bands in a while. I think there's a second wave of that on the horizon. The Elephant Six torch is still burning, albeit in unlikely forms such as Dark Meat. The aggressive part of bands is starting to show more, us included; it's a very fun scene. The metalheads, crustpunks, indie rockers, and folkfreaks all more or less get along and like each other. Some of us start very strange side projects with each other.
Scott: Athens has and will continue to be a university town that doubles as a liberal playground. The trend that I notice is that the unflinching conservative redness of Georgia pushes the artists and fringe personalities to Athens, where they can breathe and network with like-minded people. This population combined with scores of bars and venues in the downtown area provides a rich nightlife with rarely a night off. The trend I see is an open network of artists pursuing a rewarding endeavor far beneath the radar of the mass media and even much of Georgia.
CB: When I saw you at SXSW I was drawn in by the sparse crowd but then stayed for the music. Also, it was one of the only shows I went to wherein people were doing some really freaky and cool dances in the audience, completely unselfconsciously. Are your shows better attended as you tour, or are you blessed by a handful of ardent fans who are slowly but surely spreading the word?
Luke: You had the benefit (or WE had the benefit) of seeing us in front of an audience with a lot of friends. That particular SXSW show was populated entirely by Athens bands. While we're on tour, there are generally one to five people there who drove specifically to see us and are really excited. The rest hesitate to clap when the first song is finished. Birmingham, AL and most of North Carolina love us. We had to play a shit-ton of shows before that happened, though.
Scott: We tend to affect certain people very strongly, so that they follow our band and spread the word, and this grassroots population has been one of our strengths. It gives us the confidence to write the music we'd like to listen to, knowing that an audience is ready to hear the weirdness we create.
Jeff: A common theme of our last tour was the three people who drove from an hour away to see us. On the West Coast in particular, we had a few occasions of folks who seemed like they'd been waiting years for us to arrive.
CB: Is there a current trend in music that is particularly exciting or alarming to you?
Luke: Rock in roll is in a weird place. People have so much more access to bands that touring is no longer necessarily the best way to get your name out there. However, unless you tour and prove you're a real band you can't hold on to anyone's attention. Hoarders want mp3s and collectors want vinyl. Gas is so expensive that touring on our level can't really earn us the money we need to pay the label back for pressing the CDs that people almost don't want anymore. Conundrum valley, y'all.
Scott: External rewards, like stardom and money, seem to be sliding further and further away from the reality of a working artist. I see this as shifting the priority of making music to the individual's desire for expression and release. The trend excites me because I see a greater variety of quality music emerge, yet I'm alarmed at the lifestyle sacrifices the artist must be willing to accept to operate the way he sees fit to remain creative.
Jeff: Like most people, I'm enamored with all this beautiful, blissed-out psychedelic stuff that seems to have captured the indie rock world's attention. But at the same time, I watch videos of the Jesus Lizard on YouTube and can't help but wish there were more aggressive bands out there. I feel like we're sort of an anomaly in that we're aggressive, but not necessarily a "genre band;" sort of in between the cracks. I guess that's what music critics call "post-hardcore?"
CB: What was the first music you heard that informed or changed your own playing style?
Luke: Hard question with unfortunately predictable answers. The first informants were probably Nirvana and Primus. The first game-changers were Archers of Loaf and Skeleton Key
Scott: My first albums purchased at the age of 10 were Pearl Jam "Ten" and Nirvana "Nevermind". These are very pop records, and I digested them over and over again at a young age. MTV made an unavoidable sensation out of grunge, so I became glued to MTV to see what my favorite bands were doing. Shots of a shirtless Dave Grohl exploding in sweat and rock fluid while annihilating songs I knew by heart left an incredible impact on my view of an ideal drummer.
Jeff: John Entwistle was a big deal for me when I was first starting to play the bass. While I was generally resistant to a lot of classic rock when I was growing up, the Who were always different: Fist-pumping, uplifting rock songs about being a really uncomfortable young person? Yes, please.
CB: What is the most recent band you suggested that someone listen to?
Luke: I've been pushing Pattern is Movement, the Dirty Projectors, and Future of the Left pretty hard lately.
Scott: Mastodon. I've suggested Mastodon to anyone within earshot since I first heard "Blood Mountain" in 2006. They have chops, complexity, honesty, politics, and focus. They wave an enormous banner of progressive philosophy that I find inspirational to the point of obsession. They are young and in it for the long haul.
Jeff: I've been really enjoying this band from Seattle called the Intelligence. It's sort of trashy punk rock n roll. We also spent a lot of time in the van on this last tour talking to each other in what we call the "Dirty Projectors voice."
CB: Do you prefer to play a good show (i.e. few mistakes, good monitors, etc.) or to have a great audience despite bad sound/monitors?
Luke: Best audience, worst sound. If they're having a good time, then we're having the BEST time. Nothing else really matters.
Scott: I can listen to myself play all day, but the live show is about the connection with the audience. We could be plucking shoe strings, and as long as we wrote the song with sincerity and people are into it, I'd call it a successful show.
Jeff: Mistakes and monitors don't mean a good goddamn to me. I like the shows where we're not the only sweaty people in the room.
We Versus The Shark's new album is called 'Dirty Versions.' The official release date is 7/1/08 but you can buy it now from their label's website.
Tags: HELLO SIR RECORDS | WE VERSUS THE SHARK
2:08 PM ET | 06- 9-2008 | permalink
