You just proved what Huckabee question. Wow the church site and the information you provided that yes they were brothers! It would be nice if you could send this to every U S citizen! Huckabee will vote for Romney the Mormom if he is the Republican Nominee!

Sent by JKIng | 11:38 PM ET | 12-12-2007

little boy? Hmm.. I guess my Roman Catholic Background educated me that it was a man.. Not a little boy.. I see the difference..

Sent by Ezmer | 12:43 AM ET | 12-13-2007

In reality, Huckabee is an evil man. From his comments to segregating aid/hiv patients to his stance on bringing christianity to the government. As a christian, that scares me because next it could be a muslim who decides to do that.

I hope the news media pounds him on these issues and others(taxes, pardons etc).

Sent by Louie | 5:17 AM ET | 12-13-2007

Ahhh Louie -

He is not trying to bring Christianity to government. Will his Christian principles guide him? Absolutely and is that a bad thing?

He is not a theocrat looking to make us into a religious state. If he was I would be very much not for him.

Those comments were in 1992 and if you read the full context not that big of a shock.

Sent by Mike | 8:26 AM ET | 12-13-2007

To Ezmer: Please read John 6:1-15. This is one place in scripture that recorded the story of a little boy who offered his lunch of two fish and five loaves of bread. Jesus performed a miracle and multiplied this gift to feed over 5,000 people. This is a perfect example of the way that the Lord can use any gifts, talents, or offerings we give to accomplish much more that would be possible on our own. I hope this explanation clarifies Mike Huckabee's reference.

Sent by Chelsea | 8:51 AM ET | 12-13-2007

unfortunately, because of the way the american media sound-byte culture works, we are only getting a partial picture of each man's beliefs. It is wildly inappropriate for huckabee to take a jab like that. it may true that mormons believe a certain thing about jesus, but who's to say that mitt romney believes it. i mean, i would call myself a christian, even an evangelical christian, but that doesn't mean i agree with huckabee on everything. we are just so prone, in a situation like this, to over-generalization and over simplification. you can't say mitt romney is a certain way based on what mormons historically believe. and you can't call huckabee "an evil man" (as one commenter on this story did) just based on one comment he made.

Sent by keith blake | 9:23 AM ET | 12-13-2007

What's truly sad here, and more than a little frightening, is that we seem to have no other choice but to elect people like Romney and Huckabee - people who believe in and structure their lives around fairy tales and Iron Age mythology. It's sad that these types of superstitions persist in the modern age, and even more so that they exert such influence on society.

Sent by angsty | 10:47 AM ET | 12-13-2007

A true "president of the people" that sees certain Americans who differ from him as "brothers with the devil." Yes. I think it is beautiful and natural progress that we elect such an individual. A real move forward. Yeah...right.

Sent by Tom Naypauer | 10:48 AM ET | 12-13-2007

Governor Huckabee has had his faith scrutinized for virtually his entire public life -- as a pastor, lieutenant governor, governor and now presidential candidate. Where was the media outcry for all of those years? Now Mitt Romney makes his own faith an issue in a speech last week, and suddenly even mild inquiry about it is off-limits? Thank you, NPR, for having the intellectual honesty to at least check the facts. Governor Huckabee is truly not interested in analyzing everyone else's religion, and has proven his capacity and desire to lead people of widely diverse beliefs. He is glad to explain his own faith when asked, without playing the victim card, but has no desire to force others to believe one way or another.

Sent by Del & Leslie McMillan | 11:29 AM ET | 12-13-2007

It sounds to me like it is true they are Brothers. So why are Mormons offended by it? All he is doing is telling the truth?

Sent by Georges | 12:59 PM ET | 12-13-2007

This whole concept goes against the seperation of church and state. What if an agnostic, or god forbid, an atheist ran? It would make Ron Paul and Mike gravel viable candidates. Why do the beliefs of one imaginary deity versus another matter? As Bart Simpson said, it's all christianity people. there are little differences and one big similarity. I don't care if the president is a devil worshipper. If he leads the us out of depression and can get respect from the world community with an olive branch and not a TOW missle, I will be happy.

Sent by Tim Schaiberger | 1:10 PM ET | 12-13-2007

So why did Huckabee apologize? It was a legitimate question, based on what the Mormons profess.
I can't believe the media are allowing Romney to declare his Mormonism as off limits. If someone running for president believes that American Indians are a lost tribe of Israel, and that he and his wife will eventually be made gods of their own planet after death, etc., I think that's something the American voters need to know.

If you're a Mormon (or Scientologist, or Creationist Christian), you're one of two things: A sincere believer, which means you're nuts; or an insincere believer, which means you're a cynic. Either way, I'd rather you weren't elected President.

Sent by Mitch | 2:19 PM ET | 12-14-2007

It's a shame that Huckabee and Romney
can't agree on their imaginary friends;
good thing we live in a secular society,
at least in theory...the theory being
that eventually everyone will learn to
read, and understand the big words so
confusing to Republican voters.

Sent by Alice | 5:41 PM ET | 12-14-2007

U.S. politics have sunk to such a depressing level. Why is this irrational religiosity even part of the national debate? It is so sad that belief in an unseen, supreme, supernatural being has become a political litmus test. How has it that rational thought about the real world we live in has been trumped by mythology? I would much prefer a politician that puts forth some policy or plan based on rational thought than faith-based silliness and pandering. People that don't believe in God/Satan/Heaven/Hell/and other similar superstitions have a lot less explaining to do than those that espouse religious beliefs of any variety.

Sent by Doug | 6:03 PM ET | 12-14-2007

As a Mormon, (and no, I do not speak for all Mormons) if offense was taken at this question, then I doubt it was because of the question itself. But that this question is all in regards to politics. I have not decided who I will vote for, but Romney is running for President of the U.S. not for a religious position. It is frustrating for people to get so caught up in the religious beliefs of a person that they forget there is more than one aspect/facet to a person. Our concerns with who is the next president should be based on effective leadership in politics and economics, etc.

Sent by Tami | 6:55 PM ET | 12-14-2007

Georges- I am a Mormon who is not at all not offended by the question. I do though feel as Bushman, that it was inapropriate to place the question out of context manner, leaving room for those ignorant on the LDS faith to assume we believe Jesus and Satan are equivalent.
Mitch- Is Romney declaring his Religion off limits? Anyone at anytime can go to LDS.org to learn all they want about the LDS faith. Romney is not running to promote or explain Mormonism. He is running for President on a platform of Health and Economic reform. I have not decided whether or not I will vote for the man, but I do respect the fact he is focused on the job at hand rather then promoting his theological beliefs.

Sent by Rebecca | 8:54 PM ET | 12-14-2007

Father,Son,Holy Spirit are One and are God.
Jesus was not created.
Huckabee didn't need to give an apology.
Romney makes out like he is a Christian which he is not. He is a mormon.
Mormons are good people but then the bible says that satan sometimes appears as light.
Being good is not good enough.
Read the bible

Sent by Bill H | 1:43 AM ET | 12-15-2007

Many people, such as Alice, above believe that God is an "imaginary friend". She has the right to believe what she wants to, but she should not criticize others for their faith. As a fellow Christian I believe Huckabee has the power of God with him and I see no reason to keep God out of politics. God created all, has a purpose for all, and works in mysterious ways. So, let us see what God intends. I, personally, expect to see miracles with the election of Huckabee as the President in 2008

Sent by H. Everest Wilhelmsen | 5:18 AM ET | 12-15-2007

Connecticut Valley Atheists

Imagine no religion.

The mission of Connecticut Valley Atheists is to promote to the public a positive perception of Atheists and Atheism. CVA intends to accomplish this through community activities, charitable works, and sponsorship of educational events which demonstrate that Atheism is an ethical and meaningful way of life.

We intend to seek out and encourage like-minded people to join us and contribute to our efforts. We meet on the first or second Wednesday of the month in various places in central Connecticut.

Our next meeting is on the Twelfth of December at 7:30 p.m. at the South Windsor Community Center.

Contact the CVA:

_info@cvatheists.org_ (mailto:info@cvatheists.org)

reposted by
Sole all political religious problems
fred camorra call

Sent by fred camorra call | 11:50 AM ET | 12-15-2007

Hi my name is Ashley, I enjoy understanding what others believe (regardless of whether I believe the same) and I appreciate the friends from other beliefs and philosophies who've helped me expand my understanding.

In reading this post I can tell there are many like minded people, If anyone would like to ask any questions about Mormon beliefs from a practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I'm happy share my beliefs.

Sent by Ashley Webb | 1:11 AM ET | 12-16-2007

Scribes, Pharisees and Huckabees! Hypocrites!!!

What a bigot is Huckabee! He pretends to now know much about the Mormon faith (probably sponsored his own anti-Mormon cult classes), and then naively questions a doctrine out of context that he knows would be incendiery!

He is alienating the very people whose support he needs if he somehow gets the nomination! That is 6 Million less votes he should have in a general election!

Sent by david smith | 2:25 AM ET | 12-16-2007

Considering what America needs to fix, just the economy, our foreign policy, and health care, this lively discussion on the various Christian practices is the perfect dodge.

Sent by One from the ancient traditions | 10:48 AM ET | 12-16-2007

Sent by Ashley Webb: If anyone would like to ask any questions about Mormon beliefs from a practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I'm happy share my beliefs.

Hi, Ashely...A gentle piece of advice. If you wait for people around here to ask you questions (rather than shout Polemics), don't hold your breath.

I'll be happy to ask one. The Jesus and Satan brotherhood is more a metaphorical sibling relationship that John Milton put forth in Paradise Lost.

Now, if you really want to start a debate, who were Jesus's real brothers...and sisters. James? Simon? Which brings into the debate the virgin birth, the role Joseph played as a mortal father who sired children the mortal way, and the lineage of Mary. If you have a comment or two on those subject, I'd be very happy to hear them.

Ashley, I spent two weeks in Salt Lake City during the Winter Olympics. I was thoroughly impressed with the overall efficiency of Salt Lake. Especially in the chaotic time of the Olympic Games.

I remember that just about ever religion known to America was represented there (including the scientologists who set up a storefront mini-museum). I'm assuming you are familiar with Salt Lake City. There was a massive amount of religous protestors set up around the Temple. All in all, the Mormon leadership took everything in stride. Even with the most strident protestors. Everyone was welcome, so long as nobody threw rocks or set anything on fire. Protestors were given their freedom to pass out literature and what not, while the Mormon leadership exhibited benign allowance.

I've been a lontime studier of comparative religions, ala Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung and so forth. In Florida, the Mormon Church has a three hundred thousand acre cattle ranch. I'e visited the Mormon food and clothing distribution centers. This I an say from first hand sighting, no one of the Mormon faith will go hungry or without clothing. No matter how terrible one's luck might occur. The Mormons do take care of their own. If a Mormon becomes sick, no matter in what part of the world that Mormon lives, the Mormon church is there to make sure they get proper hospitilization.

I was asked to join the Mormon faith, but I've been of the Buddhist persuasion this long. But I got to tell you Ashley, from what I saw, the way the Mormons take care of one another, I'm impressed.

Anything you have to say along those lines, I'll be happy to hear.

fred camorra call

PS...Ashley, if you do live in Utah, do you ski or snowboard? I discovered that Utah has some of the best snow, with some of the better ski lift prices than Vail and other places. I met ski addicts from all over the world who moved to Salt Lake City to be close to the Utah kind of snow. I mean, I heard skiiers from Europe enthuse about the skiing quality of Utah snow. Ski people will know what I mean.

Sent by fred camorra call | 11:00 AM ET | 12-16-2007

Satan Was the most beautiful "ANGLE" ever "CREATED".(Lucifer "Son of the Morning")
JESUS is the one and only human "SON OF GOD".
If the world could only truly grasp this fact.
Furthermore,all the humans in the world are not GODS children. You have to be born again,then and only then do you become a child of GOD.All persons are called to do this. If we confess with our mouth the LORD JESUS and believe in our hearts(minds) that GOD has raised him from the dead "THOU SHALT BE SAVED"
2Tim 2:15 says that Study to show thyself approved a workman that needeth not to be ashamed ,rightly devideing the "WORD OF TRUTH"

Sent by Buck Willis | 11:44 AM ET | 12-16-2007

I've seen a bumper sticker that cogently addresses these candidates and this discussion.

"The Republican Party: Our Bridge to the 11th Century."

Sent by John McNay | 12:17 PM ET | 12-16-2007

Does anyone think that maybe we should just move on from this debate? What is the point, flatulent clueless energy for not? The dumbing of America has been completed and this only adds to the fog enveloping real issues. To question and tether over someone???s beliefs is to be committed to a system of denial in the face of far greater peril. Take comfort where you must, but I???d prefer leaders with a conviction for tackling the ills plaguing this nation and the world verses living and lying in a la-de-la fairy tale.

Huckabee, Romney, Jesus, Satan, all so very frightening. And already proven to be not worthy of the job.

Not much else to do today with a blizzard going on.

Sent by George Gekas | 2:28 PM ET | 12-16-2007

From the psychological and mythological perspective, all are brothers in mankind and it seems to me, the externalization of a "God" in any form is a concretization of a metaphore as represented in the Bible, Quran, Bagvadgita and other "sacred" texts. When are we going to consider and elect someone who can represent all theologies as common concepts that sing the same song to our collective un-consiousness? Check out Joseph Campbell, Jung, Zimmer and the truely great thinkers. Let's keep thinking...

Sent by Rick Hunter | 10:02 PM ET | 12-16-2007

Thanks Fred, I appreciate your kind observations and respect immensely that you took the time to visit one of our food and clothing distribution centers. I'm happy to expand on it.

Here's how it works: One Sunday a month, together on the same day, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints across the world fast for two meals. While we fast we focus our care and prayers for the hungry and people in need. We then give the money we would have spent on the two meals to feed and clothe people in need. We do definitely take care of our own, that being said, these funds are used for people in need across the world and we don't care what religion or belief they are. Here's a video clip made by PBS on the Latter Day Saints' response to Katrina:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nOz5pJYyE-I

and an incredibly inspiring clip giving out wheelchairs in third world countries:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DcHQ8LOdmYM.

Its also important to us to not just give money but to look for opportunities to care for others, person to person.

Thank you for your gentle advice. I hold to a belief, sometimes naively perhaps :), that most people want to be open minded but we sometimes have trouble getting there. So I extended the invitation.

I do snowboard, I live about 15 minutes from a great backcountry area in Utah. I've lived here in Utah for s little over a year, I moved here from San Diego.

Thanks for demonstrating respect for others beliefs that are different from your own, I think everyone would agree this is one of the oldest challenges we face as humans. I have read Jung and Campbell but not deeply. I'm interested to hear your perspective as someone dedicated to their philosophies.

Sent by Ashley Webb | 2:49 AM ET | 12-17-2007

Sent by Ashley Webb: I have read Jung and Campbell but not deeply. I'm interested to hear your perspective as someone dedicated to their philosophies.

Anyone who snowboards deserves an erstwhile response. I took to snowboarding over skiing because of my time spent on a surfboard.

Maybe read Campbell's journey of the hero and Jung's explanations of the archetypes, and you'll see how it all ties into existential Buddhism and quantum mechanics.

Albert Einstein said that if there was any religion that was compatible with quantum physics, it is Buddhism. The Dalai Lama is an ardent student of quantum physics. Some of the finest prophets of our time were people like Carl Sagan.

That being said, the cosmos if filled with mysteries yet unrevealed that the human experience has yet to begin to explore. For all our fancy gadgets like digital watches and personal computers, we are a primitive people with a long way to go.

That also being said, the story of Moroni and Joseph Smith is very interesting, for a variety of personal reasons, and I'll leave it at that here. You know what I mean, I'm sure.

The story of Brigham Young is one of state's rights versus federalism, a most important Constitutional debate.

And when I was in Salt Lake, I first learned about the life of Philo Farnsworth and the invention of the television, and I was kind of amused to see that a movie on Philo's life is in release. I was particularly amused with Philo's not-so-pleasant run-in with Adolph Hitler. And I wonder if the movie will go into that unusual historic encounter during the Berlin Olympic Games, when Hitler used televisions throughout Berlin.

It was also very interesting that Idaho and Utah were the first two states in the union to have Jewish governors. Those were two interesting stories. Some time back I spent about six months in Idaho. Did you know they do Roman style chariot racing in Idaho. Interesting place. I found Idahoans to be strong advocates of states' rights.

What I realized is that the history of the Mormon expediency of states' rights is a history that has been conducted fairly low keyed, and powerfully accomplished with a minimum of publicity.

That having been said is one of the main reasons I believe that Mitt Romney will be the next president. There is a strong movement to create stronger states' rights, if for no other reason that the Federal Government can't be the sole arbiter of every discussion in America.

New Jersey just abolished the death penalty. That was the decision of the people of New Jersey. And so forth. While the majority of capital punishment instances have been carried out in Texas. That is the choice of the people of Texas. It gets too bureaucratic to keep asking the Federal Government to make the decisions for each of the fifty states.

And that's what I respect most about Mitt Romney and whatever connection he has to the Mormon Church. The president is not going to send his troops to force every American to become Mormon.

Nor do I believe that Moroni, or the Archangel Michael or any of the many incarnations of Buddha would expect that of every human being on the planet. Karma has its individual impact and direction. People do not burn in eternal damnation because they disagree with either you or me.

The paradigm of Jesus and Satan as brothers is the yin and yang of existence. Good and evil exist because of each other. Light and dark, right and left and up from down are simple laws of quantum physics and karma.

But, back to the mundane and simplistic realities of politics in America, it comes down to the Constitutional question of states' rights and federalism, and the direction this country is taking.

As for those who 'fear' the Mormon Church suddenly exerting influence in America, well, they don't realize that this influence has long been in place. Nothing sudden about it. Unfortunately, paranoia is one of America's biggest products. And paranoia creats chaos. which is pretty much the state of the Democratic Party, anymore.

Thanks for the conversation, Ashley. If you have anything else to add, I'll be watching.

fred camorra call

Sent by fred camorra call | 11:10 AM ET | 12-17-2007

I think everyone should think about what Huckabee is getting bashed for, instead of just jumping on the bandwagon.
On AIDS, which was many many years ago, we weren't as educated about the presence of AIDS as we are now. In addition, had we quarantined the few that had AIDS in the beginning, it would have never spread like it did and would have touched far fewer lives.
In discussing the mormon comments with a Theologian last evening, he stated that Mormon's do in fact believe that Satan is the brother of Jesus in spirit. Therefore, I think Romney should have to answer the question before Huckabee is raked over the coals for asking it.
Like it or not, a persons character is impacted by his religious beliefs. I personally have never met a Mormon who didn't have a few screws loose. Being from the south, I have a hard time trusting anyone who can't enjoy a nice cold glass of sweet tea!

Go Huckabee!

Sent by Mitch | 12:12 PM ET | 12-17-2007

Sent by Mitch: I personally have never met a Mormon who didn't have a few screws loose.

Statements such as this pretty much illustrates what I've been saying about how little people around here understand politics and strategy.

So, you go trumping up Mike Huckabee...then you make a statement that insults millions. I'd call that a paradox.

Is that how you think political strategy works? You praise Huckabee while insulting voters? Don't you think you are missing something about diplomacy and tact?

And is this why Huckabee (or anyone else this side of the American Nazi Party) would not want you to be their campaign manager?

Keep up the good work. With supporters like you, Huckabee doesn't need enemies.

Like I said, the so-called Intellectual Left is stone cold dead in America.

fred camorra call

Sent by fred camorra call | 1:34 PM ET | 12-17-2007

fred camorra wrote>I'll be happy to ask one. The Jesus and Satan brotherhood is more a metaphorical sibling relationship that John Milton put forth in Paradise Lost.

The Mormon faith teaches that this realitionship is in now way metaphorical.

Here's the link to the LDS web site that is used to introduce people to the basic Mormon doctrine on this topic,
http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-6,00.html

The foundation of Mormon doctrine is that there is quite literally one Father in heaven. That Father literally has a wife. Before they government craked down on Mormon Polygamy, it was taught that 'Heavenly Father' had multiple wives -- as does Jesus.

After the government cracked down on Mormon Polygamy, Mrs. God quickly went missing from the public Mormon teaching. Now days it's very rare to hear about Mrs. God, and when you do, it's always in the singular. But it's done in a very evasive way. They still have to skirt the issue that their prophets have been teaching multiple Mrs. Gods.

In Mormon doctrine all humans are the literal children of 'Heavenly Father' and his wives.

In Mormon doctrine, all humans live in a 'pre-existence' before they come to Earth, and if you follow the rules, you can eventually become a god -- just like 'Heavenly Father' did.

Sent by fact checker | 3:51 PM ET | 12-18-2007

Rick, about that truly great thinker Joseph Smith...

The concept of Jesus and Satan being brothers is a byproduct of the Mormon concept of Patriarchal Marriage.

Patriarchal Marriage is the explanation that Joseph Smith gave to Emma (his first wife) when she found him in bed with their 16 year old maid.

According the official Mormon web site www.familysearch.com, Joseph Smith had 30-some odd wives. The youngest was 14 years old Helen Mar Kimball. Helen was the daughter of one of his close friends, Heber C. Kimball. Smith told Kimball that that God had given Kimball's wife to Smith. After Joe leaned on him for a while, good old H.C.K. gave in and said, 'Take my wife, please'.

Then Joe said, 'No, just kidding. God actually wants me to take your 14 year old daughter'. And H.C.K. said, 'Glory be to God'.

Joe actually took several of his close friends wives. Heck, why not? What's a friend for?

Anyway, Joe explained that God had declared that the most high and holy office for any man was Patriarchal Marriage. Which is to say, polygamy.

Joe said that God commands all humans to enter into Patriarchal Marriage. In fact, you can not enter into the presence of God in heaven without being a polygamist. Nor can you become a god unless you are a polygamist.

Brigham Young, taught that if you failed to be a polygamist, God would take your wife away from you after you died. God would offer your wife to a polygamist in heaven. Unless of course she didn't want to join the fun. If she didn't, she would be required to live all eternity as a single person. The guy who lost his wife had no choice. He was required to live his life as a single person. All non-polygamists would be servants to the polygamists in the future life.

God got to be god by following all of rules. The rules of course came from his father. It's turtles all the way down.

Sent by fact checker | 4:20 PM ET | 12-18-2007

Sent by fact checker: After the government cracked down on Mormon Polygamy, Mrs. God quickly went missing from the public Mormon teaching.

Aptly put. Mrs. God pretty much disappeared from the Vatican as well. Societies that were originally matriarchal went patriarchal. If one studies the evolution of Catholicism being an underground Jewish sect of the time of Peter and Paul, to what Catholicism is now......well, we used to call nuns black-and-white choo choo trains.

The Jesus and Satan relationship is closely scrutinized in Christianity, particularly in the desert when Jesus and Satan came head on in a sort of sibling rivalry and temptation. Martin Scorsese took a lot of heat in his rendition of the event in his movie 'The Last Temptation of Christ.' As well as his interpretation of Jesus's relationship with Mary Magdalene (years before the Da Vinci Code).

And then you have the Dead Sea Scrolls and Gnosticism, and we don't have time to go into those gospels here without creating the confusion of an Irish wedding.

I used to joke that in the bible, all the miracles were attributed to either men or donkeys. Until I learned that there is an Old Testament passage where a woman performed the miracle of cleaning enough dishes and glasses that the whole town could get fed. So, I said, "Great. She had a miracle of doing fantastic housework."

And you can trace the Jesus/Satan relationship back to Romulus and Remus, the brothers raised by wolves and founded Rome, after which Romulus killed Remus, and you have shades of Caine and Abel.

The history of the Abrahamic traditions of Christianity/Judaism/Islam are so similar that no wonder they can't get along.

And Salman Rushdie had to go into hiding for decades because of his 'Satanic Verses.'

I waded through that book three times and I still don't know what everyone got all excited about....cause the way Rushdie wrote, either it was interpreted any way one wanted...or you simply didn't understand a thing Rushdie said.

I just pretended I understood the plot of the book so I could act smarter than everyone else. Which was easy. Because nobody wanted to discuss Rushdie's book.

Now, it sounds like I segued a bit too much here, the point is, interpretation becomes the eye of the beholder.

To get down to the meat and potatoes of religion in America, the Mormon Church is a five hundred pound gorilla the Evangelicals and the Vatican both respect. If that don't sum it up, I don't know what does.

Meanwhile, Jesus and Satan will continue doing their thing. Whatever it is they're doing.

Thanks for sending the info. Ya know, when I was in Salt Lake City, I visited the geneaolgocial library there and found out some things about my ancestors I didn't need to know. Geesh.

fred camorra call

Sent by fred camorra call | 4:40 PM ET | 12-18-2007

The introduction of Skippy, the Evil Twin of the good god is easily tracable to many cultures.

For example the Persian (Zorastorian) notion of the struggle of Good and Evil as the literal struggle between the Good God and his evil twin brother.

Or Osiris and his evil brother Set.

Heck, the whole story of Moshe is clearly a Jewish re-telling of the Isis ans Osiris story.

The savior of his people, found by a daughter of heaven, in a basket, floated down the Nile...

Where have I heard that story before?

Sent by fact checker | 5:00 PM ET | 12-18-2007

Adding to what fact checker posted about the Zorastorian belief, it might be interesting to note that prior to the ancient Hebrews enslavement by the Persians, their portrayal of Satan as Lucifer, or bringer of light, was more like a prosecuting attorney who worked for God not against God. When a soul was up before judgement, Lucifer would try to make the case of why the soul was not worthy of heaven and be rejected by telling God of that person's sins, then God would decide. After the Hebrews enslavement period, the story of Lucifer's rebellion against God began to appear and the idea of Lucifer/Satan being an opponent of God showed up. So, though no one at this point can prove it, it would seem that the modern concept of Satan may have been introduced to Judeo-Christianity by the Zoratorians, who, as fact checker correctly says, viewed the world as a stage for cosmic struggle between good and evil, represented as two opposite brothers. Oh yeah, remember Cain and Abel ...

Sent by John R. Otten | 6:53 PM ET | 12-18-2007

From my perspective, Mike Huckabee wasn't looking for an opportunity to slam the LDS church or underline Romney's faith as a political factor -- during the New York Times interview he was basically badgered into making a statement. He was given the baited question: Do you regard the Mormon church as a cult? If he says no, he's lying, if he refuses to answer, then he's sinister - trying to conceal something. He chose rather to answer candidly and mentioned one point which he sees as incompatible with his understanding of biblical Christian faith. After recognizing how his sincere assessment has been politicized he openly apologized to Romney for the distraction, but not for his personal assessment of the Mormon church. If there was an attempt to bandstand the issue, then it was on the part of the LDS church, claiming to be victims of a smear campaign, when in reality, from their own sources it can be shown that both Lucifer and Jesus are considered literal children of God and contrasting brothers. For the record, biblical Christians hold that Satan is a creation of God, but Jesus is not a creation and therefore there is no basis for a brother relationship. If Huckabee really wanted to point out a major point of contrast, he would point out that Mormonism is essentially polytheistic ??? believing in the existance of plural gods. Christianity is monotheistic, believing in the existance of only one true God. The god of Mormonism is the child of another god and wasn't always god, but rather became a god. The God of Christianity never became a God, but has been from all eternity. Big difference for those looking for a church, but not the essence of a political campaign.
Although Romney and the LDS church use the ???poor us??? victim tactic for being called a cult, they seem to have no problem with agreeing with the veracity of their prophet's first vision wherein all other churches and creeds are wrong and an abomination in God's sight. Isn't Huckabee being gracious for not dredging that up!

Sent by RoccoP777 | 8:31 AM ET | 12-21-2007

Sent by RoccoP777: He was given the baited question: Do you regard the Mormon church as a cult? If he says no, he's lying,

Ergo, by your statement, you consider the Mormon Church to be a cult.

Well, my friend, Christianity started out as a Jewish underground cult and evolved into Catholicism, from which came the Protestant Reformation, from which evolved America's version of today's Evangelicals.

Look, people, if you are going to transfer all your knowledge and experience of creating conspiracy theories against George Bush into conspiracy theories about Mitt Romney, get professional.

Okay, so, everyone wants to play the conspiracy theory name game. Great! One of the best conspiracy theories is that there is intelligent political conversation in here. So, let's all do conspiracy theories.

How about the one about Bill and Hillary being of the 'Daughters of Darkness' cult. That's a dozy of a conspiracy theory.

For those of you who don't know what the 'Daughter of Darkness' cult is: family A gives their first born son to family B. After the first born son reaches adulthood, family B brings the son back to family A so that the son can marry his sister. Bill and Hillary are brothers and sisters.

Now, my friends, that's a conspiracy theories.

Gang, if we are all going to create a whole new generation of conspiracy theories to attach to President Mitt Romney, let's get with the program. Let's get with some inspirational conspiracy theories.

Because, my friends, I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But you guys have just about worn out the welcome mat with conspiracy theories over the last seven, going on eight years.

George Bush is going back to his underground city in Crawford, where he maintains an army of robot slaves, and Mitt Romney is going to be riding a chariot out of the sky with Jesus on one side, and his brother Satan on the other.

Let's get all those conspiracy theories on out there often and early.

Cause they're getting to be like Hillary jokes: old and stale.

fred camorra call

Sent by fred camorra call | 10:17 AM ET | 12-21-2007

Sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulders! Anyone who takes the comment about a 'baited question' to Mike Huckabee as an inference that I am referring to a conspiracy theory, then they are the one living in 'conspiracy wonderland'. Fred, the rest of your letter just confirms that observation.
It is a no-brainer that reporters are trying their very best to get the various candidates to tear into each other. Now if I have a candidate who is also a baptist minister and another who belongs to a group widely perceived as a cult, guess what kind of questions I want to ask to get some action and attention, duh. One doesn't have to concoct some pseudo history lesson to try to figure that one out.
Actually what I wrote is pretty up front, but let me make it simple for you:
After one puts all the accusations of conducting a smear on the LDS church on the side, it's easy to prove from its own sources that this church does indeed claim that Jesus and Satan are literal brothers, albeit going in different directions.
Secondly, the LDS church resents being called a cult or a deception, but has no problem propagating their prophet's first vision which calls all other christian groups an abomination before God. That's not a conspiracy, just downright hypocricy.
Actually Huckabee handled the situation pretty well, made his statement, apologized for any diversions and left it. Good job!

Sent by RoccoP777 | 12:46 PM ET | 12-21-2007

Christmas Conspiracy Theory #234

A jolly, happy soul? Not bloody likely
Dec 16, 2007
Leslie Scrivener
Feature writer

The snowman is not the merry innocent he seems. Humourist and illustrator Bob Eckstein has researched its origins and found a dark side, indeed.

In five-year study of the "cultural meaning of snowmen," concluded they are white, male, fat, phallic and symbols of
greed. Snowmen are also discriminatory, establishing the outdoors as male space and relegating women to interior domestic space.

bigbro says: You conspiracy theorists have been miserable for seven years, going on eight.

Give it a rest for one Xmas.

Don't go watching those dreary Xmas movies like 'It's A Wonderful Life.'

The last thing you conspiracy theorists need is another Xmas of crying.

Get Billy Bob Thornton's DVD 'Bad Santa' and watch it on Xmas Eve instead.

You people need to laugh once in a while on holidays.

fred camorra call aka bigbro

Sent by fred camorra call | 1:28 PM ET | 12-21-2007

by Http://www.politisite.com/ The following presents only statements from the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints also known as the Mormon Faith. There is no comments or spin. You decided.

In the premortal life we were spirit children and lived with our heavenly parents (Hebrews 12:9). Jesus was the firstborn spirit child of Heavenly Father (Doctrine and Covenants C 93:21) and is the older brother of our spirits.

Lucifer, who became Satan, was also a spirit child of Heavenly Father.

Jess L. Christensen, Institute of Religion director at Utah State University, Logan, Utah. On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some???especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers.

I Have a Question - On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some???especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers.

Gospel Library > Magazines > Ensign > June 1986

The Price of Peace Marion G. Romney -The fact is, however, that Lucifer is a personage of spirit, just the same as Jesus and you and I were personages of spirit before we were born. This is the way they did it: ???The disciples of Jesus had formed a church of Christ ??? and as many as did come unto them, and did truly repent of their sins, were baptized in the name of Jesus; and they did also receive the Holy Ghost. Gospel Library > Magazines > Ensign > October 1983

I Have a Question Jess L. Christensen -I Have a Question Ensign June 1986 25???26 How can Jesus and Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed? But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. Gospel Library > Magazines > Ensign > June 1986

People to Know Old Testament Stories -Jesus Jesus is our Savior. Lucifer is a spirit son of Heavenly Father. Gospel Library > Support Materials > Children

The Great Council in Heaven -Unselfishly He said, ???Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.??? Lucifer, another of God???s spirit sons, proposed, ???Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem [save] all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.??? Lucifer???s willful, glory-seeking plan would have forced all the children of... Heavenly Father loved Lucifer and these spirit children, but because they refused to follow His plan, they were no longer worthy to remain with Him. Gospel Library > Magazines > Friend > January 1983

Lesson 27: Jesus Christ, Our Sure Foundation Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood: Basic Manual for Priesthood Holders, Part B -This Redeemer is our eldest spirit brother, Jesus Christ, who volunteered to come to earth and be our Savior. Lucifer, another spirit brother of ours, also desired to be our Savior. Gospel Library > Support Materials > Family

The Great Council in Heaven: Unselfishly he said to Heavenly Father, ???Thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.??? Then Lucifer, another of God???s spirit sons, said ???Behold, here am I; send me. Heavenly Father knew that Lucifer???s idea could not work and that Lucifer was being greedy and rebellious, so Jesus was chosen as the Savior and Lucifer was rejected. Gospel Library > Magazines > Liahona > April 1984

Source LDS.com

So what's Glenn Beck Screaming at Huckabee about?

Sent by Albert N. Millrion | 12:12 PM ET | 12-22-2007

Read repeatedly:
1)Huckabee did not "take a jab"
2)Huckabee did not "take a jab"
3)Huckabee did not "take a jab"...

On the other hand, some stubborn people will believe what they want to in the face of the facts -- Lucifer and Jesus were brothers. What is the big deal? It's what Mormons believe; they can believe anything they want to. Why would anyone be offended by their beliefs?

Sent by Brian Pearson | 11:43 PM ET | 01-22-2008

a fellow had commented something that opposed the mormon belief of a godhead that consists of three separate beings. i assume he is catholic in that he believes in the trinity as one. at the end of his comment, he said "read the bible". i can assure you that it is stated mnay times in the bible that jesus was god's son, sent to earth. i would gratefully accept any scripural reference giving evidence that the "trinity" is one being. i have many friends of many faiths. and from personal experience i have found that most catholics do not know very much biblical support for their religion. i give respect to all beliefs, and do not wish to tear anyone's beliefs down. i am very interested however, in others' beliefs. if anyone would wish to have a FRIENDLY debate or discussion, send an email. jeremyrocks9@gmail.com

Sent by jeremy | 11:02 PM ET | 01-27-2008

Wow! Look at this. Huckabee accidentally played the religion card. Christian politicians should stop talking about religion and let educated people take care of this stuff.
Well it could get worse. Like Hillary slipping the N-Word. That would be something now wouldn't it.

Sent by EB | 10:33 PM ET | 02-04-2008

Why the furor over an believer bringing Judeo-Christian beliefs to the government. They'll have to work hard to keep up with George Washington and his peers... don't hear any complaints about their morality, wars, nor integrity?

The rejection of mainstream Christianity of the idea of Satan being Jesus's brother isn't because Lucifer isn't indeed from the Father of Spirits, but that because mainstream sees the two not as original equals, but of a different creation: So that Jesus created the angels, including the beautiful light bringer Lucifer, who like us chose his own way. ... Which we now see in the world of politics which we created without much input from God ... just listen to the TV ads!

Sent by A | 6:11 PM ET | 02-09-2008

So Mike Huckabee didn't actually say anything demeaning about Mormons, did he?
This was much ado about nothing. Huckabee respects Romney.

Sent by Natalie | 12:46 PM ET | 03-20-2008

hahahhha hell no....jesus and satan are not brothers ........hahahaif they were there would be like godly as wars like everyday...i have a brother we fist fight and all.

Sent by john | 11:27 PM ET | 04-22-2008