I can understand the haitians womans pride, however, Haiti is an island. If it were landlocked and had millions of French in reserve like the U.S., your history would be quite different. You were simply lucky. Also I wouldn't be so proud if 80% of my countrymen lived in poverty. Keep your pride but keep it real too.

Sent by C | 6:07 PM ET | 02-27-2008

In my experience being a "black-ethnic" I was forced to make the distinction that I was not just a black person after I was provoked by African Americans. I never thought there was a difference between any of us, to me we were black people just from different locations.

But when you're constantly talked down at "you people from Africa are all poor and reallllly dark" or told "you're not black you're african" I chose to make the distinction and take pride in my heritage.

If all Haiti is known for is substituting rice for dirt then somehow you have to find a thing of pride to point out and that's what the young haitian woman did.

I will show anybody who cares to pay attention to me any day Nigerian movies so that people know we were educated before coming to America and lots of people actually do live big cities back home.

There is such an unbalanced view and we feel like we have a responsibility to correct those views, if you call that being haughty or proud then so be it.

Sent by ceecee | 10:30 AM ET | 02-28-2008

All of this situational 'pride' and the intra-racial riffs that come with it are a poor substitute for the inadequacies we feel as the survivors of colonization and enslavement and the 'learned helplessness' that characterized our efforts to throw off the yolks of colonization and enslavement. Generations later - we are still largely impotent and unable to adequately address the history and after effects of this oppression. In the absence of being able to "speak truth to power" and get appropriate healing results - we have embraced a twisted self esteem that causes us to positively compare ourselves to those of our ethnicity who are perceived to be less fortunate so that we - in turn - can feel superior to someone. This comparative 'pride' is not a characteristic of a healthy self-identity as studied by researchers who understand nigrescence (the search for a healthy black identity). Other examples are the misogyny and chauvinism exhibited by black men towards black women, and the bourgeois classism that the newly-minted black "haves" display to distinguish themselves from the black "have-nots".

Sent by Whole9 | 2:07 PM ET | 02-28-2008

I really wish all of these so called ethnic Africans could be transferred to time periods when racism was solidly institutional in this country. When aggression against NEGROS was the norm. On average I'd be interested in their view and the view of their defendants after living here for generations.

Sent by Hopkins | 2:11 PM ET | 02-28-2008

No we are not the same but we can follow the same mindset in relating to each other. We can choose not to put down one person's ethnicity for a lack of understanding. And even if we don't have any understanding about it, it doesn't give us the right to make derogatory comments about the said ethnicity.

So yes, other ethnic groups defense go up when they relate to their black counterparts. And sometimes, such reaction could be construed as being haughty. But no it's not about a haughty persona, it's about protecting the sense of worth such rich heritage has done to shape his/her identity as a person after years of hearing some folks snickering at his/her ethnicity.

Sent by Moji | 2:51 PM ET | 02-28-2008

This is an important subject we probably don't talk about. I spent a lot of time with Africans from different countries, mostly Kenyans and am dating a Luo girl. I have had a mix of experiences, mostly positive. But I have had some negative ones as well usually involving someone saying something along the lines of "you're pretty smart for an African American". I think what it comes down to on both sides of the divide, or divides, is that African Americans and Africans are pretty ignorant from each other and that ignorance breeds hostility.

Sent by Brandon Whitney | 3:05 PM ET | 02-28-2008

There is nothing wrong with identifying with where you're from. I'm a Kenyan living in America and love Kenya and America. But it is wrong to think that some blacks are more superior than other black people or that whites or asians are superior to black people. So you can identify and have pride in who you are without being prejudiced against others.

Sent by Nora | 7:46 PM ET | 02-28-2008

Different doesn't mean better or worse. The Haitian woman can take pride in her heritage b/c her country's history is impressive. However one can have pride in one's history without demeaning someone else's.

I don't see anything wrong with people identifying themselves by their ethnicities, rather than the broader term 'Black',b/c it's more accurate. Although there are many similarities in the Black experience when one lives in the U.S. (Amadou Diallo & Patrick Dorsimont, for ex.) the upbringing, the expectations, the education one receives at home, the food that's eaten at home, all of that, that contributes to making us who we are, differs depending on one's background.

An African-American, a Nigerian-American and a Haitian-American will have a different upbringing from one another, because the parents, especially if immigrants, have different world views from one another.

I think that sometimes we don't get along b/c we don't understand one another yet expect each other to be quite similar -when we aren't. We aren't always open to discussing what binds and separates us. We really on stereotypes: African-Americans are x, African are y; and Caribbeans are z. We can have private conversations w/in our groups but they aren't shared w the broader black community - similar to the things that are are left unsaid in the presence of whites.

Things would be much better if we knew our history. If immigrants &/or their children knew American history and the experience of Blacks in America, and if A-A understood the immigrant drive, when people leave all that they know for whatever reason, they are hungry to succeed, maybe we'd see where each is coming from, see each other's viewpoint and hopefully be more understanding.

The critical thing is that we have to remember that different does not mean better or worse.

Sent by KALW Country | 8:12 PM ET | 02-28-2008

Wow, I really appreciate all these perspectives. It's a very fluid time in America around race and ethnicity...within some limits. One of those limits is how people see you...people who may or may not know your ethnicity. I have friends and family who have to listen to random racial riffs about black people because they don't look (to the person speaking to them) black. And I doubt the officers who shot Amadou Diallo knew he was an immigrant. So on one level or another, we are always living in a world constructed by other people's perceptions. At the same time--and for me it's not a contradiction but a congruity--we constantly reshape the world around us by our own actions... call it the ripple effect.

So, any black people who live in the U.S., no matter where from, will have to live in the context of the legacy of slavery. But the rise of the "black ethnic" will expand how we think of blackness.

When you think about all the incredible attention focused on Africa re: debt cancellation, AIDS, water policy, genocide... well, all of these debates would benefit from people of African descent around the world being more in the policy/media discussions and less in the spectator role. There are plenty of people who are doing grassroots or coalition building--or building through the arts/cultural diplomacy--but I'm not sure how many are actually getting enough due. It seems like Africa can be a hip cause in some circles without much need for Africans. And sometimes I wonder if black Americans are, in large numbers, ready to throw down for international causes. Well, maybe it's a national cultural trait...are we too insular? And what will change that? (I wish everyone had a passport...and the guts and money to use it.)

Sent by Farai | 1:56 AM ET | 02-29-2008

Well, maybe it's a national cultural trait...are we too insular? And what will change that? (I wish everyone had a passport...and the guts and money to use it.)

Farai:

Thank you for the aforementioned statement. I've found it confounding that less than 30 percent of Americans own a passport (and even less use it) especially for someone like me who've seen her passport have a great milage before the age of 18 and few good use afterwards.

I'm not sure if it's a sense of entitlement my fellow Americans seem to feel for having such a great country or in your words just "insular." Recently, some family members of mine were discussing this same issue and I pointed out a "Tonight Show" episode from a couple of years ago. Ross, the Intern was at a Fashion show week with a "Sopranos" cast member. They were asking questions of various people involved with Fashion week including the models. The "Sopranos" cast member asked a certain model where she was from. She replied Brazil; this Sopranos guy asked the model "what part of Europe is Brazil located." Seriously!

That guy with the ridiculous question appeared to be well into his forties and money was not an issue for him to travel sometime. When Ross tried nudging him that Brazil was not in Europe, he just smiled and shruged his shoulders.

So money is really not the main problem; yes the Dollar has lost some value but most Americans before its fall didn't care of learning about other cultures.

Sent by Moji | 1:03 PM ET | 02-29-2008

Farai, I heard the discussion today (3/12) about ethnicity for the first time. I feel that should be the key term: ethnicity [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethnicity]. Outside of the U.S., that term can usually be more narrowly defined; here, it has broad implications. Groups that have a more specific and recent link to a particular country of origin outside of the U.S. (i.e. Ghana, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, etc.) tend to identify with more tangible aspects of the culture found in that country of origin. And many times the farther back your lineage can be traced in the U.S., the less tangible your cultural identity becomes, when compared to that of your forebears.

It's not surprising that, despite the advances of globalism and tourism, most of us still have a poor grasp of geography. Nor do most of us have even a rudimentary sense of history and ancestry. So, the reality is we know too little about both ourselves and other ethnic groups.

African American culture, Caribbean culture and the many African cultures -- or subcultures -- are distinct. Yet, once we share a common American citizenship, then we are all African-Americans. There are two primary common threads here: American citizenship, and African heritage. Now, from that point, we should strive to recognize and appreciate the cultural treasure found in that spectrum.

When you consider that American Indians recognize their common cultural attributes, yet also acknowledge tribal distinctions; as do Africans; does the lack of physical borders between immigrants and ethnicities in the U.S. prevent most of us from appreciating that cultural attributes don't vanish when the person travels here?

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As for the comment from the woman of Haitian origin, none of us are "better" than the other. There's a rich history of African resistance to slavery anywhere we've been enslaved.

As to whether black pride is problematic -- of course it is, if you're a racist. Black pride is only as problematic as any other ethnic pride. Cultural richness should always be celebrated. For too many of us, the problem is we don't even understand ourselves enough to know what to celebrate and how. Actually, many of "us" don't even see themselves as part of "us."

Sent by Carlton Lockard | 11:34 PM ET | 03-12-2008