Race & Politics Final Installment

Leon's comment about "discussions by whites about their own victimhood" reminded me of the old idea that "dog bites man" isn't news but "man bites dog" would makes headlines. In other words, black victimhood is too familiar a story to be surprising. (I'm white, by the way.)

Sent by Charlie Roemer | 8:42 AM | 8-31-2008

When Greg's story about his white ten year old being bullied at school by black kids aired I felt both compassion and frustration. As a white woman I am in the minority in my neighborhood where I also teach elementary school. I have my own personal stories that match Greg's. Leon captured my frustration with Greg though when he named the typical white frame of "we are victims too." White people are not victims of oppression as often as we absorb the hate of those oppressed. After living in my neighborhood for a decade I finally realized the source of all the hate swirling around me wasn't all about now, but about oppression of the past that was not yet healed. I think parents like Greg have a golden opportunity to talk with their children about how the legacy of racism still affect us today. Leon brought spirituality into the conversation. I believe that for our nation to heal from our racist past, we need personal and societal transformation that is both spiritual and legislated. We are one nation under God and thankfully our union continues to be perfected over time.

Sent by Aneesa Parks | 9:07 AM | 8-31-2008

I recall vividly from my youth the marches and speeches, the high-pressure hoses and snarling dogs, terrified black school children confronted by a gauntlet of slathering white adults and teens, rioters burning their own neighborhoods.

Like the rest of the nation, I was struck as I watched Senator Obama become nominee Obama by how far we've come as a nation.

And I listened intently to the words of one of those who helped carry us this far, Congressman John Lewis. Beaten nearly to death on the bridge at Selma, this teen-aged son of sharecroppers eventually took the battle for America's soul to Congress, where he has over the decades become one of the most respected, honorable and effective representatives -- of ALL the people.

Now, reflecting on the historic milestone of Obama's nomination, Lewis recalled those he himself had struggled alongside, so many of them now dead, and choked up. Then he said something that caught my mind, as his emotion had already caught my own feelings.

John Lewis said that it took someone like Barack Obama, someone who was just a child during the depths of the recent struggles, to take us to this next place in race relations. Obama is less impacted by the pain and anger and fear of the struggle, more liberated and free from racial strife. Lewis's generation has laid the foundation on which Obama stands but, like Moses leading his people to the promised land, could not themselves take the final step.

Perhaps one day everyone will understand why all Americans -- not only black Americans -- should celebrate Dr. King's birthday. Because he sacrificed himself to save us from ourselves, to keep alive the soul of a nation stained by the legacy of slavery and hatred, passed down by the generations of whites and blacks, separate but parallel and intertwined cancers that were destroying the dream of our founders.

Perhaps, as we understand the evolution of our species, written in our genetic code, we will understand that race -- Cornell West notwithstanding -- does NOT matter, that the physical differences between so-called races are barely noticeable in our genomes. The truth we've discovered is that the genetic difference between male and female is far greater than the difference between white and black.

As highly evolved chimpanzees, we value our "pack" identity. Race is an easy way to identify our "pack," but the Irish and Lebanese and Iraqis will tell you that religion is nearly as effective, if one's goal is to dehumanize others.

For me, the message of John Lewis's sacrifice and of the nation's acceptance of Barack Obama is that we're finally evolving to an understanding that our true "pack" is the entire human species.

And perhaps the evolutionary step after that is the broad acceptance of Albert Schweitzer's "respect for life" as a suitable philosophy for humanity's relationship to the rest of the planet.

Sent by Robert Ashton | 9:48 AM | 8-31-2008

I find it interesting that no one states the obvious: these men, other than their color, could be twins. Their children experience the same racism, just one is black and one is white. When will we finally admit that we are all the same? Black people hate and blame white people, white people hate and blame black people. There are bad black people and bad white people. We are all just looking to blame someone else, and play the victim, so we don't have to take responsibility. We are all the same underneath the skin color.

Sent by Serena Smith | 10:33 AM | 8-31-2008

Now that most bloggers, commenters, journalists, and listeners are older than us, my wife and I find ourselves shaking our heads over the shallow grasp these people have, those of all ethnicities, of just how things were before 1965. I knew it from the White, working-class side, my wife from the Black, working-class side. When we married in 1964, Phoenix, while already suffering from the influx of Mid-Westerners like me (my wife is from the South), was pretty Southern. When I've been asked about how we lived, people frankly admit they have trouble believing it. It's that gulf between us and them that is so frustrating - don't they see why things are the way they are? It's where we're coming from that has set all this up. Structural racism is a perfect term to describe this - patterns that were law and custom 45 years ago have left more than traces.

Sent by Patrick Barrett | 10:46 AM | 8-31-2008

the conversation i just heard gives me some hope and speaks directly to my difficulties with race relations. I think i'm getting better at breaking down the walls and fighting through my old, embedded prejudices toward people of color. I grew up in Bklyn, NY, and was raised with very progressive and liberal views. I went to Brooklyn Friends School and had many black friends and was basically color blind. But as we were taught to treat evryone equally, my white friends and I, (basically private school kids who were not "tough") were regularly intimidated, mugged, harrassed, beat up, and so forth by black and Puerto Rican kids. this happened near school, in Park Slope, in Cobble Hill, boerum Hill, etc.We were often afraid of packs of kids. The image of a pack of black or puerto rican kids coming to get me found it's way into my mind by the time I was six years old. "A fortress of solitude" by jon Lethem really nails it I think.
At age fifteen, something exhilarating and empowering happened. I met white kids that were not afraid of black and Puerto Rican kids. Actually one of these kids was Puerto Rican so that sort of steered our judgement toward black kids. These were mostly Italian, Jewish and Irish kids further south, like Marine Park and Kings Highway. But I guess what was first freeing and empowering, became a perspective that i have been since trying to unlearn. I commend Greg and Leon for speaking up. I would love to get involved in any types of dialogue in this area. As Greg said, it starts with one individual talking to another, whatever color they are. i think this is a golden window of opportunity to fight through the "garbage." i'd like to think I've come a long way since being a racist in my late teens(no other way to put it really) but I still have some work to do. i think working with others who struggle with the same issues would be quite helpful.

Sent by dws | 10:50 AM | 8-31-2008

i need to add that my experience of fear and intimidation as a youngester is nowhere close to the endless horrific injustices black children and other children of color experienced for hundreds of years.Alas, even though things seems more equal now then say, fifty years ago, racism toward people of color is still rampant

Sent by dws | 11:01 AM | 8-31-2008

I continue to find the fact that people in this country can not seem to let events that happened to our greatgrandparents go, and move on. No where do I read about the slavery that is happening in Africa today. African on African slavery, and Muslim on Christian slavery. You don't hear about the people in Africa crying because their ancestors were enslaved and taken to Arabia or the the Muslim North in Africa. We also don't hear about Black on Black slavery here in the U.S. (I Come from Mixed ancestory and my black great great great grandfather owned black slaves in North Carolina). Nor do we hear about white on white slavery (if you don't believe this happened than you havent read about indentured servants in the colonial period, virtual slavery for poor white). Or Native Americans owning slaves. All of thses things did happen and slavery is still rampant in Africa today. Young Christian girls are taken from their families and sold as slaves to Muslim men in North Africa.
And by the way slaves were being taken from Africa long before the American Continent was even discovered.
Slavery, was and is, a terrible wrong, and should never have been tolerated in this "Land of the Free", where "All MEN are Created Equal". I just don't understand how all of the wrong and injustice of slavery should be placed at the door of one of the most progressive countries on Earth. Especially sinces it continues to this very day, and is perpetrated by Black People on Black People. If you want to get mad about something be mad about that. Then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Sent by Bill Largen II | 12:41 PM | 8-31-2008

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this subject. I believe that Greg's (and Leon's) judgements are missing another "race" that is key to most racial conflicts.

That is the "jerk" race. The actions of these people are endemic, and not related to color of their skin, and probably never going to be eliminated or even reduced in the nation or the world.

Those who are predisposed to interpret the actions of these jerks as based on race will see forever a continuation of racial strife. The challenge for all of us is not to blame the other races for the actions of jerks, but keep the blame where it belongs -- even if the jerks are spouting racial epithets.

Sent by Jerry Mouton | 1:14 PM | 8-31-2008

I think the difficulty in overcoming racism is what seems to be humankind's hard wired view of the world as "us" and the "other," the "good" people and the "bad," the "deserving" and the "undeserving." The toxic history of slavery,followed by discrimination, resulting in lynching, poverty, and substandard education, and racial profiling has played into that us and them mentality, and skin color helped that division by providing a convenient label for the other. I don't much like libertarians. Politically, at least, they are the "other" for me. I grant there must be thoughtful ones, but it's hard for me to credit them with intelligence and thoughtfulness regarding public policy. But walking down the street I can't tell if a person belongs to that "other" group. So I think that however UNessential skin color is to the quality of a person, I think part of the long term solution is simply that is gradually morphing from a black and white nation into a nation of color, or colors. Jesse Jackson had it right with the "rainbow coalition," and that's what we are slowly becoming. It will be a good day when, in fact, all of us are "mixed race," meaning such a blend of white and brown, swarthy and pale, straight haired and curly haired, broad nosed and beaked, and all the other things that go into personal appearance, that there is no identifiable physical "type" on which to base a stereotype. The good news is that we seem to be headed in the right direction here. The bad news is that we can't wait that long. What can we do to speed the process? What if every person found just one thing to do about racism this year? Make one friend across a traditional divide, vote for a school bond issue, support a scholarship program, hire someone partly for their potential and their personal qualities as well as what college they went to, become a big brother or sister, elect Obama, elect legislators who are willing to put teeth into antidiscrimination laws and to recognize and end the racism built into the Bush administration's response to Katrina. If there is indeed hope in the evolution of American society, find at least one way to personally help hope along.

Sent by Jeff Byers | 1:31 PM | 8-31-2008

as an asian-american, i find that any discussion of race that talks exclusively in terms of black-white relations not only (further?) alienates the sizeable populations of asians, latinos, native americans, middle easterners, etc., to say nothing of bi- and multiracial individuals - as if the rest of us don't matter - but also presents a model of race relations in US society that is overly simplistic and seriously outdated. portraying race in terms of a bipolar model neglects the multiple interactions between majority whites and other minority groups, as well as among different minority groups themselves. referring to one particular group as "the opposite race" makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Sent by karen hwang | 1:50 PM | 8-31-2008

When harm comes to your kid, idealism and nobility dissolve. I can't imagine how I would feel or what I would do in Greg's case or any other similar situation. Fortunately, I went to parochial schools in the 50s where racial events were rare but so were African Americans and other minorities. When I moved to Boston in the 80s I saw hair-raising incidents of violent racism directed at black kids that made me ashamed of my religious-ethnic group. They involved packs of white boys with bats who terrorized black kids on public streets and parking lots. I am a red head and experienced racism when I worked in Puerto Rico. Fortunately, I had a solid confident persona by then but it taught me to understand some of the things I heard black people say about the way they felt in a white society. My kid was driven from school by bullies and special education teachers in Hawaii who made school a living hell for him. We felt helpless dealing with a system where our kid was a real square peg in every sense. This seemed like legalized child abuse by the aloha state. Unfortunately, I don't have a solution for racism except to ask parents to stop teaching it to their children! If you listened to Obama on radio, it would be hard to tell that he was brown. He is intelligent, insightful and inspirational. His speech is strong and awakens the echoes of our greatest leaders. His election will not solve racism in the USA but could go a long way towards retiring it. In every area of life where African Americans have been allowed to compete they have raised the level of performance. There were many times that I wanted to see Colin Powell as president rather than GW Bush and race had nothing to do with it. If Obama is successful by any honest measure, it will be one more nail in the coffin of this most hideous learned behavior that affects all minorities in the USA. However, this should not be the main reason for supporting him although racist attitudes will doubtless rage against him. Thank you for airing the troubles and concerns of real people and thanks to Greg for being honest enough to share his problem with all of us. Honesty is the only thing that matters!

Sent by David T Webb | 4:38 PM | 8-31-2008

Leon Wynter here.
Thanks for listening to Greg and me as our conversation begins. The best part, of course, is to come, off the air, where the messy details, ambiguities and straight up hard feelings may yet be sorted out.
I'd like to invite a few more people who are willing at least as willing to listen and then to be thoughtful, honest and vulnerable when they speak as Greg has been.
Do shoot me an e-mail at: leonwynter@leonwynter.com .
Or just drop a comment anywhere it fits in the new pages to come on TheAmericanRace (www.theamericanrace.typepad.com )

Sent by Leon Wynter | 4:50 PM | 8-31-2008

I find it fascinating one of the callers claimed she felt stereotyped after moving to Palm Beach County, the area where I grew up. It was specifically Palm Beach that created and affirmed my contempt for what I find to be southern dispositions. Having grown up with my fair share of Florida's 'good ol' boys,' I can't help but dismiss their unfounded sentiments as anything other than sheer ignorance. In all sincerity, this isn't the type of racism that scares me (along with the behavior of children that been discussed with too much frequency) just because it is so stupid and depthless. What is so frighting are the things I find educated adults saying, sometimes being completely unaware of how offensive they are. For instance, a friend of mine had a CD booklet stolen out of his car. It was filled surfer and skater music, things like Jimmy Buffet and The White Stripes. He said to me he was especially upset because "the person who stole it wouldn't even enjoy that music anyways." The implication being, of course, he or she only stole the booklet in hopes of finding a fresh lot of hardcore rap albums. This is one of many instances that led to my ultimate decision to leave Florida after I've completed my degree. It is also what is so disheartening to me when I hear discussions about race relations. To hope for the racial tolerance of every American is a goal much too far-reaching. To feel marginalized by those that cannot understand the importance of education let alone racial sensitivity is not a primary concern for me. It is changing the strong, silent racism that still manifests itself in the upper middle class and higher, the kind that doesn't wave the Confederate flag but still sympathizes with it.

Sent by Candy | 11:55 PM | 8-31-2008

I wish more had been said about the spiritual beliefs that these men (Greg and Leon) had in common. Religion is a powerful motivating force that has the capacity to bring people together (although it's been often used to separate). In my spiritual tradition, I have always learned that the purpose of religion is to establish unity and justice, and we all are called to address the challenges of racial prejudice, to see the inherent nobility of every individual and ourselves as part of the human family. The Baha'i sacred writings say "Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created." I know for many people, their religious communities don't often address issues of race and social justice but I do believe the potential here is largely untapped - a recognition of our common spiritual capacities could go a long way towards breaking down these man-made divisions.

Sent by Negin | 11:57 AM | 9-1-2008

I respect and applaud NPR for attempting a series on race and politics. But ending the give and take of the series with the platitude, "All people are created equal," is an indication of how shallow the discussions were. As wonderful and talented as my children and grandchildren are, none will ever win eight gold medals, have the advantages of Bill Gates' children, or contribute to refinements of the theory of relativity. They may have been created equal, but they are not quite that equal.

The shallowness of the discussion stems from our unwillingness to face up to how blatant and how ugly racism is in this country, so ugly that we accept a self-imposed taboo against the language that would enable us to deal more honestly and effectively with it.

In the media, Obama is referred to as elite, highly educated. In coffee shops, bars, and dining room tables across the country, elite is translated into uppity. His wife is even more uppity. Of course "uppity" is always followed by that dreaded N-word, never to be used on NPR, an example of the self-imposed censorship that interferes with honest discussion. Those terms, that discussion, are reality, but a reality too ugly for refined tastes.

So what was not discussed on NPR is the importance of this anti-uppity swing vote. Such a discussion might lead to the following prediction, and time will tell whether the prediction is realistic or just cynical: About 20% of the electorate are evangelicals who have confused religion with morality and further confused their version of morality with politics. For them the primary issue is not race. Their issues are the nonnegotiable five of abortion, euthanasia, stem cell research, human cloning, and gay marriage, especially gay marriage and abortion. Another 15% or so are simply Republicans. They have always been Republicans, their parents were Republicans, and they will vote Republican, and probably would if their candidate were Black. Anyone not in either of the above groups who makes $200,000 a year or more will also vote Republican out of fear of taxes. Again, race is not their central issue.

Now we get to the racist vote, which will be the swing vote. About 10% of the electorate simply cannot vote for an uppity nigger. End of discussion. Another 10% will rationalize: This country just isn't ready for a Black president. It's not that I am racist, but I know that others are. I must vote against the Black man for the good of the country.

Do the math. An uppity Black democrat cannot be elected President of the United States.

Sent by Charles Nevi | 7:42 PM | 9-1-2008

Although the story, "Hope for Improved Race Relations", was about race I couldn't help but notice how religion crept in and how both men had come to know or walk with the Lord/Jesus. As much as we would like to separate the various aspects of life - race, religion, gender, sexuality and sexual decisions - they are intertwined like a fine tapestry. The struggle seems to be to keep them in a proper perspective.

During presidential campaigns, these topics can easily spill over from intelligent discussions to emotional issues. Often thoughts turn to "how does this affect me and my safe place" rather than "what is best for our country."

Race does not seem to be so much of an issue, although some locals (I live in a small city of 11,000 in South Dakota) are having a problem dealing with an influx of hispanics, as religion.

From religion we derive many of our morals - right, wrong and tolerance. Discussions about our morals can get as fervent as a Sunday morning evangelical church service - of any race. This saddens me because often the much needed tolerance is lost. "My way is the true way, the right way. I will do what I can to prove that. Nobody can change my mind."

We all need a place where we can feel safe. Unfortunately, in finding that place the tolerance for a person of another race, religion or sexual orientation is sometimes lost. I applaud NPR for its efforts to continue the discussion of the rich, complex social tapestry that is the United States. I would have been a bit more pleased if the race and religion issues had not co-mingled in this story, but so be it. My hope, probably futile, is that this campaign season's discussions will focus more on facts rather than emotions. I am glad that we are beginning to put race behind us. That is a step in the right direction.

Sent by Joan Shurtliff | 9:59 AM | 9-3-2008