What's Your Border?

ochotilla200.jpg

An Arizona ocotilla.

Source: Barrie Hardymon

As I said in a previous post, when we're lucky enough to take this show on the road, usually the story finds us... and here in Tucson, it's immigration. Erin Deely, one of our lovely hosts here at KUAZ (did I mention how nice everyone is here?), said to me, "Your opinion about immigration depends entirely upon your experience with it." She went on to say how virulently she had found herself disagreeing with people about it, even close family members, because the way they live the issue is so different. Well, this hour, we'll be talking to people about their stories and experiences, and how it's influenced their feelings about immigration. Tucson isn't the only border town out there, so please, tell us what it's like where you live; whether it's Texas, California, even Florida. What's your story?

 

Comments (Send a comment)

I took your survey last night, and then made my husband take it too. We both struggled with how to answer many questions because it is hard to know what situation it would be and our answers varried from situation to situation.

I feel as though if we were to just open the border and not have people be criminals to cross the border, everyone -Americans and Mexicans - would be safer. We are telling all people that we don't really care about human life -- but only our own life, and that is not what I have been taught growing up as an American citizen, nor is it what I teach as a three to six year old teacher.

If my students grow up learning that to cross an imaginary line makes you less or more of a person than those you are joining, we are in for an even more bleak future than the present is.

I do not live near the border, but am willing to learn about, support and celebrate the differences of all people in what ever way I can.

Sent by Julia Gordon | 2:20 PM ET | 04-12-2007

I would like to know what people feel about legal immigration and the complications related to it and how that encourages illegal immigration.

Sent by Ram Sharan | 2:24 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Why are they only creating a vehicle barrier and not a full concrete wall. Do they want to allow people to cross into the desert and die?

Sent by Darrell Snodgrass | 2:37 PM ET | 04-12-2007

You simply must present a more balanced opinion.

I have lived in Mexico and have sensed that, although my money was most welcome there, I was not ... neither as a worker nor as a leasor of land. I personally experienced the corruption of officials or the sense of impotence that honest ones feel on a daily basis. The corruption literally brings the nation to a standstill. Mexico has made less progress in providing decent living standards to its people than any nation of latin America I have visited. The nation is out of control.

Back 15 years ago, I lived literally across the fence in Imperial City Ca. I, along with friends, scoured thrift stores for cheap but good clothing ... sleeping bags and canned food that we could drop off at illegal gathering spots in the bushes along ravines - little hidden spots where illegals were wont to congregate.

Over the years, I have come to see those actions as humanitarian in one aspect, but deeply misguided from another view.

I feel the same way about the weepy MD who experienced a great sense of loss with the death of that child.

There are immensely wrong things happening along the border. There is injustice at every turn. We cannot rectify it if we do not have the support of the Mexican people. This is exactly the same situation as in Iraq.

I have come to appreciate the tongue in cheek words of Robert Frost's crusty old New England farmer.

"Good fences make good neighbors".

Sent by Nick Ziergiebel | 2:37 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Well, close. It's an ocotillo, aka coachwhip. For our Latin fans, it's scientific name is Fouquieria splendens. It's not a cactus, even though it is spiny. If you want to see its even stranger cousin, look up "boojum tree".

Sent by Steve Jones | 2:37 PM ET | 04-12-2007

I do not buy the arguement. I'm from tobacco country in the southeast. For two decades we have used Mexican labor. They all have proper documentation. All of the housing is regulated and inspected. This is a small farming area but we DO comply with current law and it works.

Sent by Jon Wilson | 2:52 PM ET | 04-12-2007

As a New Yorker tansplanted to Tucson (from where I'm hearing your program)and having worked in developing coutnries around the world, am painfully aware that the border problem with Mexico is the micrososm of the macrocosmic truth that until our governments stop supporting corrupt governments, the issue of povertyEVERYWHERE will continue feeding illegal immigration into the United States.

Let us therefore focus on endless lobbying by the people that all governmental action, especially financial, be reserved for those activities benefitting the One Humanity.

Sent by Lynne Murguia | 2:52 PM ET | 04-12-2007

When Americans are ready to pay $15 for a bottle of catsup, we can have a realistic conversation about illegal immigration. Until then, we should be thankful for illegal immigrants willing to do work I personally would never consider.

Sent by andrea | 2:52 PM ET | 04-12-2007

I was once an illegal alien, at the tender age of seven months old I became a criminal according to many anti-immigrants. I attained lawful status since 1987 and I served in Iraq. I find odd and funny that I am accepted if my status was legal - how this issue makes a huge difference to many people. But, my real issue, among many about this issue, is the notion that the legal or "illegal" immigrants are a terrorist threat; it's funny because I predicted that anti immigrants people where going to use this several months after 9/11 occured, it's an easy way to scare the nation. This is wrong, in fact, I proposed, because of the strong catholic following, Mexico is the strongest alied for counter terrorist actions. I can continue right on this topic, but I would like a resonse.

thank you

Sent by luis M. Solorio | 2:55 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Neal keeps say "why not pay people more?" Paying more would force the price of fruits and vegetables so far up Americans would not buy them . The farmers and the consumers loose in this scenerio.

Sent by abi spring oregon | 2:58 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Please allow American citizens to live without illegal aliens. Some of your callers say they do jobs American citizens will not do. It is all a matter of money and custom. I am willing to pay more for food and I do by buying locally produced organic produce from small family run farms. I pay local neighbor children to mow my lawn and although I am 60+ I do my own gardening. I honestly do not feel I need illegal aliens in our country adding to our crime and healthcare problem. If it is true that we can't live without these illegal aliens then I am sure if they left our country we would be begging for them to come back.

Sent by Buddy Hamilton | 3:02 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Does NYC count as a border town. Well, I'm not from the South West, but I do live in a community (Queens, NY)where more than half of the population were born outside of the US. I am not a college graduate. I've tried to complete a degree many times but the cost and time requirements have always been too great. So I'm doing the best I can with blue collar work. Up until last year I paid $1400/month rent (with my wife) on an $8/hr wage. Fortunately, like all the jobs I have found in New York, I was paid under the table. Employers have absolutely no expectation that a legal citizen would work for less than $50,000 a year. So that was a positive experience I guess, saving me $40 a week or so... Of course I do have the problem of not being able to advance here (to foreman or manager) because I don't speak the language. So I'd be happy to pick peppers (packing boxes 10 hours a day is pretty back-breaking too) if that lying farmer would pay me that $1000 finders fee and $50 an hour. I'd do it for half that. I am serious. What is the cost of living down there? Can I find an apartment greater than 500 square feet for less than $1500 per month? I do not have a criminal record, I have been employed at the same job for three years. If the makers of this show could put me in contact with the farmer I would like to talk to him.

Sent by Mack | 3:11 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Just heard discussion of taxes and illegals. Very misleading and uniformative. I blame the tax preparer. Here's the deal: Everyone who earns money in the US must pay federal income tax. Everyone is assigned a taxpayer identification number. If you have a social security number, you use that. If not you apply for a differnet kind of number with the w-9 form. This different kind of number was not made for illegals; instead it was made for foreigner owners of US companies and so on. Illegal latinos, in my experience, will only file if they get a refund back. There is widespread fraud. Under NAFTA, Mexican children can be used as expemptions and for the purposed of the Earned Income Credit and the Child Tax Credit, even if they never set foot in the US. Basically, latino women lie and file as head of household to claim refund and credits. It is true that all wageearners pay FICA. if, later the illegal beomes legal, they could draw social security when they retire and so on. What the tax preparer said about the INS (now USCIS) is correct, but they only need 3 years past. THis can be a nightmare because often the couple have not been filing married as they should have been but have been working the system. So, they need to file ammended returns and pay the tax due and fines. This could be a lot of money.

Sent by Dominick Antonucci | 3:12 PM ET | 04-12-2007

I did not see the point of spending an hour with selected interviews and screened comments. People get affected by border crossings. This has been covered many many times. You could have tried to do something new. For example: Why do they cross illegally and what can be done about it? After all, we have two borders, one in the north and one in the south. Illegal immigration from Canada is not a problem because the have a good country as measured by a range of socioeconomic factors. In contrast, Mexico is not a good place for most people. The Hispanic Mexicans (i.e. the ones who invaded from Spain) have had 400 years to get it right but have not created a country that is worth living in. There is no reason to expect that they ever will. Look at Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. These regions were once part of "old Mexico" but became U.S. Territories and then became great states in the U.S.A.; if these regions had remained part of Mexico, they would not be any better, socioeconomically, than the rest of what is currently Mexico. Why don't you talk about this? None of you are talking about this!

Sent by Bill | 3:12 PM ET | 04-12-2007

MY FUTURE IS ON HOLD.
I RECENTLY MARRIED A YEAR AGO, MY HUSBAND IS AN ILLEGAL RESIDENT, IF APPLY FOR HIM TO BECOME A LEGAL RESIDENT, HE WOULD HAVE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY FOR A PERIOD OF 1 TO 2 YEARS. WE HAVEN'T FILE ANY DOCUMENTATION WITH IMMIGRATION AT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE ARE HOME OWNERS AND I CAN'T AFFORD THE MORTAGE ON MY OWN IF HE LEAVES.
HAVING CHILDRENS? THAT'S ON HOLD AS WELL SINCE FEAR THAT WE WILL NOT BE TOGETHER TO SHARE EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.
SO FOR NOW OUR LIFES ARE ON HOLD AWAITING A DECISION ON IMMIGRATION REFORM.

Sent by MAYRA MENDOZA | 3:21 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Hooray for Mexicans. They are the best neighbors. Living among Mexicans I feel like I live in a real neighborhood. How wonderful to have the language, food, music and rich traditions of another country, literally right next door.

Sent by Mary Pat Kellagher | 3:22 PM ET | 04-12-2007

I am disturbedd by the question of whether one would stop to help an "illegal alien" in distress by the side of the road. This is predicated on the idea that one can tell who is an "illegal alien" while driving by at 55+ mph. By implication anyone who is latino and not dressed well must be a suspected illegal alien? What about all the US citizens of Latino heritage? Or all the people not of color who are in this country illegally? This sort of racial profiling (for want of a better word) makes me ill as the parent of three Latino children who are legal immigrants and US citizens. Good Grief.

Sent by Ellen Daley, Fairbanks Alaska | 3:36 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Here's an idea that I think you NPR listeners just might be up to. I remember visiting friends on college campuses years ago and seeing advertisements for spending the summer in Alaska fishing. I thought about it a lot, but never had the nerve. Since then I have met a few guys who did it. Most said the work wasn't that great, and a good deal of the money made got spent in the bars because there wasn't a lot else to do up there. But a few did it more than once, and all had something positive to say about the experience. So can't one of you upper-middle class well connected types put together some kind of organization, maybe a non-profit, that can recruit people (like me) and get them jobs with farmers who need labor? A couple of years ago, if it paid just $10/hr, I would have jumped at the chance to get out of the city and save my $700/month share of the rent to pick some peppers. I know it's backbreaking, hot work; but believe me I'm used to it. I know a lot of you people don't understand this, but there are still some hard working, native born, English speaking, non-criminal members of the underclass alive and well in the USA.
I am absolutely serious. This seems like the perfect way to put that degree in Sociology with minor in business to good use. Set up a nice little foundation that helps Americans hire Americans. You can pay yourself a tidy sum if there are other farmers offering $1000 a head. And if you get things up and running let me know. I'm gonna have to hold out for $25 an hour. You can tell everybody you got the idea from a high school dropout - Wouldn't that be a larf at your cocktail party!

Sent by mack | 4:04 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Have been enjoying your show from Phoenix. Just wanted to correct your caption on one of our many beautiful native plants in the desert southwest. It's not "An Arizona ochotilla" but "An Arizona Ocotillo".

Graduate of the UofA School of Landscape Architecture

Sent by Matthew Blanchard | 4:23 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Why hans't anyone discussed the "Aztlan-ders"? One reason folks here in the US are concerned about the undocumented illegals is that many fear these Aztlanders, who to your earlier point see the SW US as still belonging to Mexico and Mexicans, and want to take it back? I know I've spoken to some here in Tucson!

Sent by Don Barnett | 4:44 PM ET | 04-12-2007

This is a comment for Neal. I was in my car listening to part of the show on values and morality. I love NPR for its ability to educate in a safe and respectful way. It has made me more aware of my biases and areas that I am ignorant about. This afternoon I heard that 2% of the survey respondents admitted that they would eat other peoples food out of the refrigerator at work. I was absolutely shocked at Mr Conan's remark that the 2% were very fat people. I am so disappointed that Mr Conan thinks it is okay to make disparaging remarks about fat people, putting his show at the level of IMUS in the morning. Is a cheap shot at another human being worth it. I don't think so and it will be a sad day if NPR has another talk show host say such a stupid, hurtful, prejudiced and thoughtless thing. As a white woman I was offended by Don Imus's comments for its sexist offense as well as for its racist nature. To hear another degrading remark hurled at fat people is just too much. If NPR doesn't hold itself to a higher standard who will?

Sent by Kathleen Smith | 5:41 PM ET | 04-12-2007

It strikes me a funny that a show about "how imigration affects people in our state" (Arizona) was not even carried live in the bigest listening audiance in the state (Phoenix). It also strikes me as funny that besides the audiance participant "Hector" there was not one comment or commentator that was pro-enforcement. Even the "agent" was an EMT not a true border agent. I can tell you a lot of negitives were never brought up during the show. No mention of property values being driven down because there are five families living in the four bedroom house next door with 7 0r 8 cars and trucks parked in the driveway, yard and sidewalk. No mention of illegals causing wrecks on our streets and leaving the scene because no one knows them and thier car has plates that are stolen and don't match (it happened to me)so we end up paying higher insurance. No mention of illegals who commit property theft and are never pursued because the police say there is nothing they can do to find them (back to the car registration issue)and again it has happened to me. No mention of pulling into a Home Depot in your truck and having men jump in the back and refuse to get out because they think your a shifty contractor (again it happened to me). No mention that these "jobs americans won't do" now include factory jobs, resturant jobs, capenters, electricians, all jobs that 15 years ago were all or mostly citizen filled jobs (I guess we all just have such fabulous jobs we don't want that blue color work anymore). Face it, employers love having a class of people who will do anything for almost no money (it's still a lot of money in Mexico)who can't complain or call the autorities, that they can exploit to thier hearts desire. No you can't pay an American $10 for a basket of chili's that took him 2 hours to pick and tell him he still needs to pay taxes on that wage. The reason illeagals can do this is because they are payed cash under the table, don't pay the taxes, live mulitple families or single men to an over-occuppied house and use our emergency rooms for free health care. I personally work with men from Malaysia, Peru, Austria, Phillipines, Iraq, Vietnam and Mexico and they are ALL Legal. I don't understand what some people want. Are we to just open the border wide and let everyone who want's to, to just come on in? What will you do when the job you have now working for $12 an hour is given to an illeagal (from any country) because he/she is willing to do it for half the wage and the employer say's, well the American was not "willing to do the job anymore"?

Sent by Bryan Moore | 5:48 PM ET | 04-12-2007

I live in San Antonio. Its not a border town, but its a first big stop on the way out of Mexico. "Illegals" probably built my house. Would I have rather spent much more on my house or been force to get a smaller house, no.
Illegals are only "illegal" because an arbitrary set of rules was created to keep people out. These "criminals" are much the same criminals that originally came to the United States that everyone else descended from, those that were persecuted for religious beliefs, or other hardships that caused people to take huge risks to travel thousands of miles to an unknown world.
Nearly every one of us is descended from people of hardship that came here looking for a new life. They left because opportunities were not available in their home countries.
Today we are trying to say that people under the same conditions should not come here, and that its not our fault that Mexico has bad conditions for its people.
People are scared because these new people talk funny and keep to themselves.
Little Italy's, Irish communities, Scottish communities, German, Polish, all over this country started the same way, and each wave talked a little funny and kept to themselves, too.
I'm glad my great-grandfather was allowed to come in through Ellis Island from Sicily. I can only pray for the day that we have an Ellis Island with its gates open on the border in the South.

Sent by Mark | 6:51 PM ET | 04-12-2007

As a native of Tucson, I think that Phoenix wasn't the site of the event because Tucson is the real destination point for most situations. Hopefully that answers your concern Bryan.

Anyways, the issue strikes me personally as well. In the early 30's, my great grandmother fled to America to escape her abusive husband. To her, America not only meant the chance of a better life, but also the chance of being treated equally under the de-facto law.

On my father's side, he came to this country when he was 12 as part of the Pedro Pan operation (which brought children from Cuba to the United States after Castro's takeover).

As for us, we became part of the (now increasingly unavailable) American dream. In each generation, our family has grown to help a larger and larger part of American society. My grandparents and great uncles contributed to the history of Tucson, my father is a successful Project Manager for Electronic Data Systems, and I am a Lead Software Engineer.

If border security was as it is right now, my great grandmother would never have made it over, and three generations of positive contributors to American society would have been lost. Would my father have even made it here? I'm not certain, even though Pedro Pan was (in its time) endorsed by the Federal government.

We have to learn to think of immigrants not as a burden, but as a genuine source of contribution, no matter what the original condition of their entry was. I cannot speak for all immigrants, but my great grandmother and my father both came here not for a "free ride" (as many seem to assume) but because they wanted to work themselves to the bone to make a better life when no amount of work would've done so on the other side of their respective borders.

I'm glad that we Americans are recieving people that are so dedicated. Perhaps it could teach all of us about work ethic.

Sent by Alejandro Loret de Mola | 7:12 PM ET | 04-12-2007

Look around you. Who do you see producing your food, landscaping your yard, building your house, paving your road, cooking your food, washing your dishes, cleanning your hotel room, and myriad other jobs? Who processed and packed your Thanksgiving turkey and those vegetables you shared with your family? Thats right, migrants, legal and illegal. I encourage everyone to start observing the world around them. Start noticing the people who are doing these jobs for us.

Sent by Margaret | 11:53 AM ET | 04-13-2007

Numbers are down 30% for people crossing the border because most of them are already here

Sent by michael | 12:19 PM ET | 04-13-2007

If the US government is serious about ridding the country of illegal workers, it must create a serious and mandatory employment screening program for all employers to use. Then the government will not need to kick anyone out of the country, none citizens will just disappear on their own!! They are here for the sole purpose of making money, so what are they to do if that is not an option. However, the US government is not serious about ridding the counrty of illegal workers, but rather want to only give the impression that they are. That stated, that is fine with me. All the crying about none citizens lowering the wages of the American worker is nonsense. What is lowering the wages of the American worker is the bottom line of the corporations and the competitiveness of the new Global economy.

Sent by NIDAL | 9:32 PM ET | 04-13-2007

I didn't realize costs would rise so much if we didn't have illegals to do the dirty work (I think I'd be offended if I were one). However, since they are in fact ILLEGAL, and people are more concerned about their welfare and healthcare than someone like me who had two part time jobs for over 4 years, totalling 40 hours a week, one even at a hospital, and never once could get health insurance... I really can't say that I have much sympathy for them. Guess that makes me selfish. So be it.

Sent by Heather | 11:08 PM ET | 04-13-2007

Bill Kristoff proposed offering citizenship to all foreign students at American Universities who have received PhDs in engineering or the sciences.

Sent by Steve Goodell | 2:54 PM ET | 05-29-2007

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