There is so much going on in the world, especially in the Bush White House and Iraq. Rove is being investigated now. There are hearings on Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman. I'm tired of these VT stories. Stop beating this horse. It's long dead.

Sent by Jon Grayson | 2:12 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I have tried to call in to the program, but couldn't get through. I am the child of a schizophrenic mother. Getting mental health care for her has been a lifelong struggle for her. And now that I am an adult, it is my struggle, too. She was diagnosed with cancer two years ago, and as a side effect of all the pain medication, she was unable to make her own medical decisions, so as her daughter, I made all of those decisions for her, and there was no discussion of depriving her of her "civil rights" even though these were life or death decisions and at one point I even consented to surgery for her. We all knew we were working together for her best interests. However, six months later, when she had breakthrough psychosis symptoms, we were all but turned away from the hospital, even though Mom was threatening to kill herself and was willing to submit to treatment. There simply weren't resources to care for her. If she had been uncooperative, even my power of attorney papers would not have been sufficient to have her committed.

Why is it that we can force medical care on people who are deemed incompetent to make medical decisions, but we cannot force mental health care on those same people? Schizophrenia is a frightening disease. My mother has expressed her fears to me of the losses she may experience such as her home and personal possessions while she is experiencing a psychotic episode and the law is respecting her "civil liberty" to refuse treatment. What about her rights as a human being? Why don't we talk about the "civil liberties" of Alzheimer's patients who may not want to be moved from their homes into nursing homes? What this is is not a respect for civil liberties, but ugly discrimination against one illness in particular that we all hate and fear: schizophrenia.

Sent by Catherine Shaffer | 2:31 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Having got caught up in the system set up to help those with mental illness, I have to say great care must be taken in giving power to governmental organizations to "help" those with mental illness.

I am a high functioning Bi polar with a PhD. I earned my first DUI in 2000 and my second in 2003. Now 7 years later, after a year of being forced to take Antebuse and having a nasty interactions, 10 months of house arrest and 2 years of probation, I failed one urine screen in 4 years and was placed on house arrest again for another six months. I am part of a forensic diversion program designed to "help" me, but given the amount of funding at stake the focus is on keeping me on the program. The foresnic diversion program refuses to acknowledge the reports of my doctor and therapist. At this point it is costing me 100 dollars a week, not counting the cost of drug screens.

I have NO other charges or history of violence.

Sent by kent strock | 2:32 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Let's add to the dialogue that, in California, the Governor has proposed completely cutting one of the only statewide programs that is designed to provide mental health intervention for individuals with severe mental illness (without having to go to jail). In the past 6 years this AB34 program has led to the stabilization and recovery of thousands of individuals in our state. The phenomenal outcomes of this program led to Proposition 63 (the Mental Health Services act) being passed in our state. If the governor has his way, this AB34 program will be eliminated and thousands of individuals will be homeless again and out of treatment.

Sent by Shannon | 2:33 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Two good books on mental illness and forced treatment are "72 Hour Hold" by Bebe Moore Campbell. This novel deals with a mother who takes her teen daughter into an underground treatment center to get help with bipolar disorder. Campbell, who is now deceased, did have a relative who was mentally ill.
"An Unquiet Mind" by Kay Redfield Jamison is a non-fiction account of her struggle with mental illness. She writes about signing documents which give her family permission to committ her to care if she needs it and resists.
Andie Brymer
Lincolnton, NC

Sent by andie brymer | 2:34 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I think it depends on what kind of treatment takes place, and I think that there needs to be an advocate for the patient. For example, a few years ago I was hospitalized for a manic-depressive episode. It was voluntary but I continue to pay for agreeing to treatment. While I was in the hospital, I agreed to Electroconvulsive treatments. I don't think that I was appropriately informed and thus accepted a treatment that was painful at the time and that had and continues to have side effects. Once I had agreed, I was unable to remove myself from treatment without doctor's consent. After 15 treatments, I was a zombie. I can't remember much from that time, though I do remember some of the treatments I'm sure because it was so traumatic. Without appropriate information I was asked to agree to a treatment that eventually has caused me memory problems that make my 100,000 dollar education worthless and the paying off of my student loans a dream. Forcing treatment without proper information or without some sort of advocate can be permanently devastating to the patient.

Sent by brad | 2:35 PM ET | 04-24-2007

My brother was diagnosed bipolar by the time he was 14, when he held up a gas station with a gun. He was put into an institution for a year and medicated, but had such a bad experience that he refused to take meds ever again. He is currently serving year 4 of a 10 year sentence for holding up another gas station (when he was 20) again with a gun (not his first crime as an adult but the first time prosecuted.) He is not being medicated in prison; I am told that he is the only one who can request meds but of course he does not believe he is sick. My family got no support while he was in school, in fact guidance counselors encouraged him to drop out because they didn't want to deal with him. We had no guidance or help when he was spiraling downward nor when he was arrested and incarcerated. What resources will we have when he is finally released, further damaged by the prison system on top of his unmanaged mental state?

Sent by Dawn Lisbon | 2:36 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I have suffered from anorexia twice in my life, most recently two years ago. If it had not been for being forced into treatment, I strongly believe I would have killed myself with excessive exercise and starvation. Looking back, I was hurt and resentful of the family and friends who ushered me into treatment, but without them, where would I be? I couldn't see that at 84 pounds and 30 years old that I had a problem.
Granted, eating disorders don't harm those around you, but I was certainly a danger to myself.

Sent by andrea | 2:39 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Forced treatment already exists. In addition to 72 hr and 14 day holds in California, there exists a system for putting individuals who are gravely disabled due to mental illnees on conservatorships of varying lengths. The individuals conservator makes decisions about the individuals medication and mental health treatment. The real issue here is that there is no funding for the intensive voluntary outpatient services (case management, counseling, etc) that people with mental illness need. Outpatient services are so underfunded that people with mental illness end up in jail ... and then family members demand more forced outpatient treatment. I have an older brother with schizophrenia. I still don't support the expansion of forced treatment in California.

Sent by Diane | 2:40 PM ET | 04-24-2007

My 55 year old brother did not get help or take any medicine and he's been in prison now for 16 years simply because he's always been mentally ill. He self-medicated with alcohol since 16. No exercise. DWI's and drunken exposure incidents led to his NOT warranted sex offender status and the long sentence. We have had to abandon him because he has really gone insane now. He was a good boy, sweet, no violence or sexual abuse. There is no help in prison.

Sent by Charisse Estes | 2:41 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I would like to force my brother to receive mental health help. He has stated he wants to kill someone. You have to hide his meds in his food because he does not believe he is sick. I can't find no help for my mother for him and she is in denial also. She and I work, so he is at home doing nothing. The doctors and police indicate that if he does not hurt himself or anyone else there is nothing that can been done. I believe we have been able to take him to the doctors probably 6 or 7 times. But even the doctor does not seem to take a more direct approach to help him get better. To me it seems like a cash cow for them. Get the patient in enough to charge the insurance company and give some meds but not real work or therapy to make it better. I still don't know what all is wrong with him. What do you do?

Sent by Natasha Stewart - From Maryland | 2:45 PM ET | 04-24-2007

My son, 11, is now involuntarily admitted to a hospital in New York. He needs help (he has biploar disorder, as well as an autism disorder), but it frustrates me that I am unable to have any influence in his care at this time. He is in day 6 of a possible 60 day admission.

Sent by Kim | 2:47 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Thank Goodness that forced treatment was used in my son's case! His medication has made all the difference, he's himself again.
The right medication does take time to find. It is not a instat fix. This has taken over 2 years for my son. He was arrested and then sent to the hospital by the judge!

Sent by Rene B. | 2:47 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Was a normal 40 year old mother of 2, manager of large medical office. When terminal mother coincided with empty nest, I voluntarily went on lexapro. Have spent almost 3 years fighting suicidal thoughts that simply were not there before the SSRI. I wonder how my family would feel had they forced them on me? Since then, my life is such a mess, I am officially bipolar and on SSDI, and only a husband who remembers the old me keeps me out of institutions. Lovely life the SSRIs gave me.

Sent by Claire Cox | 2:47 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I am a newly married 23 year old, and I have been taking different SSRIs and other drugs for the past 6 to 7 years. My doctor just changed the medication for the eighth or ninth time. The results: my depression is the same, my problems aren't being solved, I am having breakdowns at home with my new husband. I now have a hair-trigger, I feel crazy and my mind is cloudy. Plus, I now weight more than ever! I have consistently gained weight over the span of my trials with these drugs. Nothing was forced... I sought help, but could not afford therapy, and though I have a good job, I still cannot. I am more isolated than ever, but fear I will only make it worse by moving away from treatment. Please advise.

Sent by Victoria Espinoza | 2:49 PM ET | 04-24-2007

My mother (deceased, natural causes) was schizophrenic. My sister was BiPolar I (the psychotic kind--deceased due to a BRAIN disease that caused her suicide.) I am BiPolar II. People need to realize that mental illness is a DISEASE of the BRAIN. My colleagues at work don't really get this. I see my doctor regularly and take my medication, yet from time to time I miss work because I am ill. They'd rather hear that I am out for some physical ailment than that I need a medication adjustment. This makes me feel like I can't be counted on and so begins a downward spiral that just adds to my symptoms. People think that mental illness is all in the mind. It's all in the BRAIN! It is about neuro-transmitters and mis-firing synapses. Many of us DO take our medicine and see our doctors regularly, but still we get sick. We do the best we can, especially if there are resources available in the community and especially if we are insured. If someone called in sick due to an epileptic seizure, would you penalize them? I doubt it. We just need people to understand that mental illness is a PHYSICAL ILLNESS OF THE BRAIN.

Sent by Tammy Crawford, Baton Rouge, LA | 2:49 PM ET | 04-24-2007

There needs to be a more balanced and organic approach to treatment of individuals. Labeling and treating ALL patients with the drug du jour is only a temporary fix and doesn't help the individuals heal but only masks their issues.

But not all people can be healed...

Sent by Adam | 2:50 PM ET | 04-24-2007

What about people who are totally alienated? I tried to help a friend for years find alternative support. She refused. She was totally absorbed and cut off from the world, refusing to leave her house.

Sent by Jane | 2:52 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I have been a mental health advocate all of my life and I've lost four mentally ill family members to premature deaths. You do a great disservice in this conversation by allowing this irresponsible young man to spread misinformation about treatment.
Many mentally ill people who exhibit psychotic symptoms are physically attacked, killed in jails or in state hospitals, where they usually
end up.
Being mentally ill and psychotic is not a state of "freedom." People in this state must be coerced or forced into treatment.
Because community mental health care has not been that good or effective in the past is no reason to not force treatment for people who need it. We need to improve out patient and in-patient care but that doesn't mean that society, families and patients shouldn't be protected from a psychotic patient who refuses care.

Sent by J. Bartos | 2:53 PM ET | 04-24-2007

As someone who has experienced severe depression and gone through many periods of taking medicine and seeing different therapists before finally finding a good psychiastrist who gave me a good combination of drugs for me, I can say for sure that if my parents were not so supportive, persistent in looking better solutions for me, and did not have the means to get me therapy, I would most certainly would have committed suicide along time ago.
Our country needs to provide better mental health services for everyone who needs them, regardless of money and insurance. Making sevices easy to access is so important because it is difficult for many people with mental health problems to even go looking for help. The more difficult getting access to help is, the less likely someone suffering with mental health problems will be able to persist in overcoming the barriers to therapy.

Psychiatrists also need to listen more closely to their patients and work with them to find the right meds or other treatments for their situation. I was prescribed so many drugs that did not work well enough to help me recover and I lost hope that any meds or therapies could help me. When my parents finally got me in to see a really good psychiatrist she immediately gave me treatment tailored for the severity of my depression instead just giving me the standard treatment.

Sent by Liza Baker | 2:56 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I'm hearing a lot about the individual rights of the mentally ill to be free of forced treatment, but what about the rights of the rest of us to be free of the type of people and behavior that just killed so many people at Va. Tech???

Sent by Pete | 2:56 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Many years ago, Dr. Thomas Szasz advocated a psychiatric living will to direct caregivers and the criminal justice system.

When a person is deemed capable of informed consent, they can complete a written and/or video
statement as to how they want to be treated if they become symptomatic. They can direct forced medications or no medications.

The criminial justice system can deal with behaviors that violate the law, no matter what the mental state of the accused at the time of the alleged offense. There would be no "not guilty due to mental illness" but rather guilty (if so found) AND insane. The person would then be attached to a forensic system for the length of the criminal justice system.

It combined the maximum libertarian input for the individual and a large degree of community protection.

Sent by Gene Tinelli, MD | 2:56 PM ET | 04-24-2007

My family has a history of mental illness. My mother's cousin is a paranoid schizophrenic; the most serious of the bunch while the rest of us tend to suffer from varied levels of anxiety and depression. Both my mother and my sister have been on anti depressants to help with their anxiety, while I've battled my depression solely with counseling.
With having gone through my own struggles with mental health and watching those close to me with theirs, my view of my mothers cousin is worrisome.
She has not been on medication for close to 10 years and none of us, my extended family, have heard from her because she's become a recluse... I respect her decision to be off her medication although having heard from her father that she's living in a tent in her living room surrounded by filth in the house makes me question if allowing her to make the decision about her medication is a positive thing or not.

Sent by Marliese | 2:57 PM ET | 04-24-2007

My husband has dealt with his paranoid schizophrenic mother since he was a teenager. She is highly functional as long as she stays on her meds (Respirdol). Occasionally, she decides she doesn't need any meds and discontinues taking them. We then have to wait until she is a recluse and cannot get out to get groceries or answer her phone. He then has to go to her home and watch her take the meds until she is back on track. We understand that she doesn't feel she needs meds, but what else do we do? Every time we suggest that she see someone to try a different med, she has an excuse not to.

Sent by mary | 2:58 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Remember alcohol is a drug too.

Sent by Buster | 3:00 PM ET | 04-24-2007

In the VT and other recent mass killings, there seems to be at least one common element: prescription antidepressants. Many links (web and otherwise) at this Mercola website, including a link to an NYT piece from April 17: http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Could-Antidepressants-Explain-the-Virginia-Tech-Massacre--10928.aspx

Sent by Margaret Lamb | 3:00 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I don't think my problem is as in depth as your other callers. Listening to your program, I don't hear anything regarding the current situation many US military face with the constant stream of deployments to the Global War of Terror. I have spend 22 months in Iraq over two deployments and will in a matter of a few days deploy to Afghanistan. While I am not meaning to discuss the politics or nature of the situation there, I mean to speak to the PTSD that so many of us deal with. I have been so diagnosed and have twice been ordered to go to mental health professionals. While I was treated with respect and dignity by the counselors, my command looked down on me and helped me to stop seeking treatment to control my PTSD. I was strongly encouraged to seek drug treatment and given increasing doses of Zoloft. While taking the drug, I was able to focus better, think clearer, but I found after about three months, I could not easily function with it. At the behest of my wife I had to stop taking the drug to prevent an addiction.

Sent by a US soldier in germany | 3:01 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I have Long QT Syndrome, a heart arrhythmia disorder. A few years ago, I passed out; it was not the first time. This time, however, my husband witnessed it, and as I am usually disoriented after an episode, I didn't argue with him about getting in an ambulance. I also didn't argue with hospital staff about taking a high dose of atenolol for the arryhtmia even though I previously did not tolerate a lower dose of the drug. Within an hour of taking this "benign" medication, I started experiencing extreme anxiety. It took me a week to figure out the connection, and after my doctor prescribed an anti-anxiety drug, and standing in line to fill this prescription, I asked myself, "What the heck am I doing?" I cut the dose of the heart medication by 3/4, and never took the anxiety medication. If I had not educated myself about atenolol, and not been able to chose my own medication path, I would still have an anxiety disorder and be suffering from the side effects of a drug used to treat it. Find better medications. Find doses that work best for each patient. Don't tell patients they don't know what they're talking about when they say they are suffering the "rare" side effects of a drug.

Sent by Lisa | 3:07 PM ET | 04-24-2007

As an individual with Schizoaffective disorder forced to take medication and lucky enough to regain my health, I feel that it is imperative that we consider all alternatives, but neither reject what we know can help.

My experience with the mental health system has been a blessing.
Understanding that various cultures view different behaviors and behavioral health differently, we need to respect the rights of the individual to make up their own mind whether to take medication, allowing natural consequence to play a part in the unfolding lessons that may determine their choice. The rule of law should not condemn individuals with mentally illness any more than those with cancer or diabetes.
All people, I feel, due to the uncertainty of life and the world, have some measure of mental illness. Where are we and what are we doing here? Until these questions are answered in a clear and direct way, we are acting from a less than full understanding of life and the world.
Meditation and medication and therapy, a good possible combination.

Sent by Joel Lesses | 3:15 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I enjoyed your program on mental illness. I have one question that I don't feel was really answered or discussed. How does one force a person to involentarily talk any kind of treatment be it medication or counceling? We could force by brother to take his meds. He had to decide and now he does and has a much better live. We couldn't make my nephew take his or go to counceling and he just killed himself on 1 April at age 22 yo.
I believe it is a matter of a combination of howmuch a person believes he is ill and howmuch the family is willing to support their family member in their decision.

Sent by Debra | 3:17 PM ET | 04-24-2007

My oldest child is a 23 year old young man who has not progressed emotionally beyond about 11 years old. Today I appeared before a judge as the victim because he was being held in the detention center for assault and battery against me on March 30. I'd brought him back into my home mid-February because he'd been living in the woods, sleeping in a van that doesn't work, roughing it through the winter. My ex-husband had the van and a ton of trash hauled off the property, and my son no longer had shelter. His father believes that I should let our son goes until he hit bottom, hurting himself or someone else, so he could be committed. Thing is, my ex had a brother that committed suicide in his 20's, about 30 years ago. I have a close friend whose 19 year old son was ADD and bi-polar and took his life a year ago. I couldn't live with the idea of waiting for something to happen so our son could be committed. I had great hopes for helping him, and had taken him to a therapist twice for two hour sessions. He refused any further visits, and insisted there was nothing wrong with him. He can't hold a job, is oppositional, believes society is against "people like me", and blames everyone else for the trouble he gets into. The alarm bell ringing for me right now is that I have petitioned probate court to hospitalize him for evaluation and treatment. I have also been told to let him be homeless, to let go and move on with my life and focus on my youngest son who is eleven and doing great. But a mother's heart isn't made that way. I believe I have to do everything I can, learn what help is available and leave no stone unturned to save my troubled son. He is very gifted and intelligent but since he was a teenager has been unable to function well. The judge told him today she has been observing him in her court for six years and told him he is not functioning and to please participate in the counseling offered at the detention center, to start somewhere on his path to getting well. My heart is full of sorrow for my son, and I can't tell you how tricky it is trying to figure out what's the best thing to do. There is so much conflicting information and opinions.

Sent by Celeste Crago | 3:28 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I have a brother who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia and he has been very difficult to treat on numerous occasions because of laws that protect his right to have choice about his treatment, or his right to be ill, over the rights of others he might harm in a psychotic state. There was a man on the program who stated that forced treatment did not work for him in the 70's and that he advocates for "pro-choice" in treatment. He also argued that we do not force someone with diabetes into treatment, so we should not force someone with mental illness into treatment either. I have some comments on the subject: 1) Someone with diabetes does not typically pose a risk of killing 32 people without medication. Or think of Andrea Yates and her horrific act while in an untreated state of mental illness. These things would be so much less likely to occur if we had different laws making it easier to get someone into forced treatment. The consequences are clear with the way our laws stand now--we, as a society, have decided we would rather have occasional killing sprees by someone who has "chosen" to be psychotic by not being treated with medications that we know work, and have a person with a mental illness make the decision for voluntary treatment, when symptoms of their illness make them have no insight into their illness, than have these people go into a hospital for a few days and get a few medications that may have a very small risk of having some negative side effects that might possibly outweigh the benefits of taking them. In my opinion, I would rather see an occasional hospitalization and forced treatment of someone than so many dead from a random act of a very ill person who could have been forcablky treated.

Sent by Alice | 3:41 PM ET | 04-24-2007

From first hand experience, force leads to resistance, even for those individuals experiencing hard core psychosis. We must concentrate on the most important factor involved in providing successful mental health care--the ability to establish a trusting relationship between the helper and the individual seeking help. While not always easy to do, particularly with the 90% of us who have suffered severe trauma and abuse in our lives, further complicated by overwhelming amounts of shame and disgrace, this is NOT rocket science. For many of us, the first trusting relationship we had post-diagnosis, was with a peer who was further along in their recovery journey. This is what we needed to open the doors to further assistance and to making decisions that supported healthy living. Despite the fact that we are shouting this from the mountain tops, the first programs to get cut at all levels(most recently at the Federal level) are those based on the principles of peer and mutual support. Every time I was referred to mental health treatment, I found myself in an office full of "experts." And yet, no one around me "looked" like me or had any clue as to how I was feeling; had any idea how to relate to the lifestyle I was living; could identify with the unreal levels of rage I was experiencing. NONE of these treatments were successful. It was not until I had experienced homelessness, gang rape, 2 abortions, and numerous suicide attempts that I discovered help in the form of a PEER RUN Recovery Program. With an annual budget of $80,000 this program continues to SAVE LIVES. Force has been the hallmark of failed mental health services for years. It is time to listen openly to those of us who are speaking about what truly does work.

Sent by Jill SJ | 3:44 PM ET | 04-24-2007

In response to the doctor who spoke of Mr. Oaks experiences in the 1970's as something that is not happening now simply because there are supposed to be guidelines in place: I believe she needs to look up from her prescription pad and open her eyes.

Children die each year from being held in face down restraints. The consequences of such "treatment" on the individual and society are never positive so why is this even an option?I was held in four point leather restraints for over 24 hours and forcibly injected with medicine I was not prescribed before ever seeing a doctor. This happened on two separate occasions at different hospitals in two different states.
In the mental health arena, treatment=drugs and it is shown time and time again that this is not always the path to recovery. Yet, alternative therapies are not pursued because let's be honest, no drug company can profit off of something like, let's say, sunlight for depression. Even NAMI receives funding from big pharmaceutical companies.
Mental illnesses such as Bipolar I and Schizophrenia should not always be equated with violence. People who are homicidal and violent are just that. Alcoholics are not always violent but sometimes they are. So are men. So are women.

Sent by Dana | 5:03 PM ET | 04-24-2007

For ten years I've been fighting the ugly psychiatric system. I have watched over 32 or more people die in the hands of psychiatry. I have documented and kept all 31 vials of drugs thrust at our son. I have videos and tapes of the change that took place under psychiatric care which by the way was torture and toxic. I gave up my life to save my son and I encourage anyone out there that thinks DRUGS of any kind are going to make a difference to open up their eyes before it is too late. NEUROLEPTICS CHANGE THE THOUGHT PROCESS FOREVER. There is no turning back and the person will never, never be the same. They will exhibit all the side effects eventually and whomever is involved with this person's life will be dragged down the road along with the person. IF THEY CANNOT PROVE ANY OF THIS EXISTS...Why would ANYBODY put these destructive, damaging, toxic drugs into their brains and body???? Prove it or get out of my face!

Sent by Linda | 5:06 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Victoria,
What kind of dr. are you seeing? A psychiatrist I hope. If seeing same dr. it is time to change. You have only taken SSRIs?

Sent by kent strock | 5:15 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I am the daughter of a schizophrenic mother. My family has tried to get her help as well, but due to her lack of insight and her refusal to take medication, we can do nothing. She was dx'd with paranoid schizophrenia when i was 4.

We have tried to 302 her, in PA this is admitting someone against their will to the psychiatric part of a hospital-which is this case was very small due to lack of funding. You need to prove that they are a danger to themselves or to others.

Even if you prove this you can only hold someone here against thier will for 72 hours, then they can check themselves out.

Paranoid schizophrenia affects the part of the brain that enables a person to seperate reality from delusions. It is a physical abnormality. My mom doesn't know she is sick. She is afraid for her life because of the delusions she has and is therefore a danger to herself and others. And there is nothing we can do.

Chances are she will end up in prison, and not really understand why she is there. Or she will end up hurting herself or someone else. Or she will end up homeless.

For as long as i can remember we have been fighting this battle with no help. No help because of the stigma attatched to mental illness and no help because of the lack of recources.

And to think she might have a shot at a normal life if we could get her help? How many times does something like what happened at Virginia Tech have to happen before we open our eyes to this?

Sent by Christina | 5:27 PM ET | 04-24-2007

What happens when women with hypothyroidism act strange? What happens if someone is acting peculiar because they are having an allergic reaction to a food or medicine? What happens if a person is diabetic and suffering from insulin shock or hypoglycemic shock? What happens if someone is delirious from a high fever. The problem with the mental health system is that it treats the symptoms instead of the root causes. There are many, many physical problems that can masquerade as mental illness. However people caught in the mental health system are forced to take "herd medicine" that can exacerbate their underlying health problems. For example, lithium which is sometimes prescribed for bipolar illness can exacerbate undetected hypothyroidism. When the mental health system becomes apt at diagnosing the underlying symptoms of "so called" mental illness and offers some healthy alternatives, people will become less resistant to the help offered. Until then, FIRST DO NO HARM!

Sent by cathy | 5:42 PM ET | 04-24-2007

The man David Oaks,talking about "mindfreedom" has been given too much time on the air. It is a different world then 1970's...having worked in Mental Health since the early 70's. He could be considered a "cultist". When you have major mental illness and a "correct" diagnosis, medication are a "blessing".

Freedom is relative, a person with an acute mental illness is in a "prison" and when appropriate medications are given, can move forward with life!

THe ACLU, Mr.Oaks, do not really understand the scope or nature of the problem..The signs were there but the legal/health care interface was not.

what a terrible tragedy, but it happens all the time in our society.

In south america, if a family agrees to a hospitalization for an acute mental problem.....it is done....
In this country......many family members have called and horrific stories.

Sent by Dennis Epstein | 6:49 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Second post>

Health Care Treatment is difficult to give in the present environment. The legal system , the law enforcement, system are not compatible with quality health care. Like many other issues, It is my belief that when community, consumers and health care professionals can design systems with the cooperation of the legal system and law enforcement agencies, that a healthy system can be obtained.

As stated in last comment: Other countries do not interface mental health treatment with lawyer and law enforcement ( a good example is Britian with drug problems-health issue not legal issue)....thank you.

Sent by Dennis Epstein | 7:08 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I've recently been diagnosed with Bi-Polar disorder, and have been put on various anti depressants in an effort to find something to stabilize my extreme mood swings. This has been mandatory treatment, required by a civilian counselor who screened me after a suicide attempt. The treatment has been provided by the VA, and hasn't focused so much on what is causing the mood swings as it has on finding a drug to 'blanket' them. After having talked with other bi polar patients, I've discovered that this is a fairly typical treatment: a physician isn't concerned so much about the root of the problem as they are about masking it.

While I am finally on a drug that is working for me, I already have had to double the dose. And the road to this drug has been painful and confusing. The other drugs I tried had side effects like hallucinations, suicidal tendency increases, sleep deprivation, over sleeping, or increasing either my extreme hyperness or depression. I am relieved that I am returning to normalcy.

I would be terrified if mental health treatment began to be forced on non criminal patients. Too many doctors are too quick to assign a drug without actually evaluating the problem thoroughly. Nevermind the fact that the budget necessary for such an undertaking would result in inexperienced care providers being depended on.

Sent by Zog | 7:25 PM ET | 04-24-2007

During more than 30 years of living with Bipolar I Disorder, my 56 year old sister has been hospitalized numerous times. Her episodes have increased in frequency and severity.

Her immediate family, her brother, friends who are not completely and permanently repulsed and I tried, in vain, to have her involuntarily committed after each of her two hospitalizations last year. Because she was neither homicidal nor, at that time, suicidal, the courts released her --- having heard the expert testimony of her psychiatric physicians and the near-desperate wishes of those who love her.

Our state cannot order involuntary commitment just because a person needs help.

My sister seems now to be stable, is taking her medication and is participating in some talk therapy. However, I believe she will in the future, once again, stop taking her drugs. I'm less baffled by this phenomena since reading an excellent book:

I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help!
Helping the Seriously Mentally Ill Accept Treatment:
A Practical Guide for Families and Therapists
by Xavier Amador, Ph.D., with Anna-Lisa Johanson
(A review is found at http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/52/3/397)

My sister CANNOT understand that she is mentally ill, not due to willfulness, but because her brain doesn't function properly and cannot reach that logical, to so many of us, conclusion. That doesn't mean she can't be helped. What it means is that those who strive to help her must understand that there are ways to respectfully align WITH HER to treat the illness. The problem is the illness and NOT the person.

My heart aches for those who have had to deal with issues of violence. With the tragedy of Virginia Tech, we need to open a productive debate on how to treat severe mental illness as well as how to protect the rest of us from its ravages. But if this country is unable to solve the problems of affordable healthcare, I fear that the result will only be hand-wringing, anger and blaming.

Sent by Her loving sister | 8:05 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Some doctors say treatment always entails risks. This is true, if drugs are involved. An article in the Harvard Magazine notes, "all drugs are essentially poisons that interrupt metabolic pathways" (http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/010785.html). Actual effects of drugs are called "side effects" because doctors do not address all body systems as one whole. This separation of the body into different parts started with the mass murder of all females who held power as natural healers. This occurred during the witch hunts from the 14th through 17th centuries (http://naturalhealthperspective.com/tutorials/history.html). This was not that long ago in history. Perhaps the fear and resistance toward natural medicine has not entirely left our culture.

Traditional therapies from surviving cultures heal the whole body from distress while causing no harm. These include herbology, acupuncture, qi gong, yoga and time away from stressors -- the old "cure by the sea." Some of these therapies involve energy, the existence of which many doctors deny. Well, most scientists also denied Einstein's theory that all matter is energy. Quantum physics is now proving the practices of natural medicine.

Sent by Irene C | 8:28 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I say this with no disrespect to the doctor on the show or any supporters of her views but psychiatrists are not the experts on mental illness. No one is. We only have ever been able to understand an extremely small percentage of the brain and that seems to be forgotten in most discussions on this topic.

Sent by Willie | 9:23 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Re Psychiatric Drugs
Agreeing with cathy, sometimes the wrong people are drugged, given neuroleptics. Think of the dissidents of the former Soviet Union. Memories go, simple tasks like correcting forms are more difficult. One can't plan anymore. One sets down for a nap or to go to bed, are tired, but can't sleep if the medicine has some stimulating effect. Plans to go to a party have to be cancelled because, who is going? The person with his or her unique identity is not all there.

Sent by eleanor howe | 9:42 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Thank you, thank you, thank you for presenting a critical debate on this issue! As a survivor of involuntary psychiatric treatment, I find the idea that we should to expand forced treatments downright frightening.

Sent by Angelica | 10:05 PM ET | 04-24-2007

Regulations have been added since the 1970's, but how can we ensure they are followed? One regulation is a right to voluntary treatment. I sought help as I faced memories of sexual abuse in 2003. I was distressed, but I wasn't violent. Feeling fear is the first stage of healing from abuse. The mental staff called it paranoia and locked me up, even though I wanted help. The doctor detained me as "51/50" for being unable to provide food, clothing and shelter. I told the doctor I was being imprisoned on false grounds. I co-owned a house and had a lucrative job. He said, "take me to court" and left. Other patients felt he enjoyed dominating them.

I asked for another doctor. He said, "It doesn't matter that you were raped. What matters is what's happening now." When I spoke, he said I was interrupting him. When I disagreed with him, he said, "you argue," which is considered a sign of mental disorder. Does repressing patients' right to expression via authoritarian opposition and drugs violate the First Amendment?

Regulations dictate that doctors can't coerce patients into treatment, but I quickly learned I was trapped in a place beyond the eyes of the law. A doctor told me, "If you'd take medication, I'd be enouraged to let you leave." As the pills entered my body, I felt my senses fade. My feelings of connection to people vanished. My nerves tightened up in severe tension that is still ongoing years later, especially in my brain and reproductive organs where many nerves gather. Afterwards, I was so shocked that I couldn't work. Mental treatment inadvertently disables its advocates for reform by rendering them penniless.

Sent by Irene | 11:16 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I took Haloperidol for many years, and it certainly has a pacifying effect on mental delusions and troubling behavior. That is its intended effect. This intended effect, not a "side effect" is what I found most unbearable. Like most humans I enjoy creativity and intelligence. Haloperidol took away my enjoyment of these human traits, and I could put up with it only because I felt great shame from my psychotic behavior. I have been medication free now for as many years as I was medicated. I was lucky to discover that I could avoid mental problems by mentally avoiding the subject of my delusions. I am one of the hidden psychiatric survivors that David Oaks mentioned on your show. I fear that my co-workers, my employer, and many of my friends would see me differently if they knew my history, so I keep it a secret even though I know it is important for people to hear my story and the stories of others with similar successes.

Sent by Craig Hunter | 11:48 PM ET | 04-24-2007

I too, had a mother who suffered from schizophrenia. I should say we all suffered, my siblings, my father, the rest of our family, from my mother's illness.
Diagnosed in early adulthood, she suffered and was hospitalized throughout her life, and remained in outpatient treatment until her death at the age of 86. She mostly was non-violent, but there were breakdowns where she chased my father with a kitchen knife (thank God he ran faster), screaming that he was the Gestapo, and other times when she heated microwave dinners in their plastic trays, in an iron skillet on the gas stove.
These are not the actions of a rational person. These are not the actions of someone who can care for themselves.
I applaud patients' rights' and advocacy, but I also have experienced the tragedy of untreated mental illness. Unlike depression or other forms of mental illness, usually the medications make you feel better, and then the person with the illness stops taking the meds.
Nonetheless, during my mother's six years of continual medication and talking therapy, she enjoyed the most quality of life that I witnessed during her life.
I believe there needs to be a major re-examination of our culture and medical model for mental illness. One that includes a commission type panel, perhaps three professionals, who would adjudicate applications for forced hospitalization. But that would rely upon a broad system of psychological outpatient and inpatient care, rather than the decimated mental health system that has existed since President Reagan de-funded public health!
Not all people with schizo-affective disorder are violent. But there is immeasurable suffering by families and more, from untreated mental illness, and not just the suffering of the identified patients themselves.
Something has to change.

Sent by voxhumana | 12:01 AM ET | 04-25-2007

I have an aunt who has suffered with severe mental illness for most of her life. She has refused treatment since the early 70s, claiming that she is not ill. She is currently homeless, after having refused the offer of my family to provide her with housing. While I do not believe that she is a danger to herself or others, I wish there was something that could be done to get her off the street and into treatment.

Sent by Jane | 12:18 AM ET | 04-25-2007

"...Psychiatrists told the public that these techniques "cured" psychosis or balanced the chemistry of the brain. But, in reality, the common thread in all these different treatments was the attempt to suppress "mental illness" by deliberately damaging the higher functions of the brain. The stunning truth is that, behind closed doors, the psychiatric establishment itself labeled these treatments as "brain-damaging therapeutics." ~ Robert Whitaker, Street Spirit Interview, August 2005

The psych meds that I was prescribed caused tardive dyskinesia - permanent neurological damage. It is a travesty to allow doctors to court-order psychiatric medications that are known to cause severe disability.

Sent by Rose Darby | 2:59 AM ET | 04-25-2007

clair cox wrote, "Was a normal 40 year old mother of 2, manager of large medical office. When terminal mother coincided with empty nest, I voluntarily went on lexapro. Have spent almost 3 years fighting suicidal thoughts that simply were not there before the SSRI. I wonder how my family would feel had they forced them on me? Since then, my life is such a mess, I am officially bipolar and on SSDI, and only a husband who remembers the old me keeps me out of institutions. Lovely life the SSRIs gave me."
Claire,
I am not clear on the point of your post. You seem to indicate that SSRIs cause suicidal thoughts and thus seem skeptical of medications. Given that you bi polar, yes SSRIs would make BP worse, but I am assuming that other mood stabilizers were effective?

Sent by kent strock | 9:35 AM ET | 04-25-2007

I think its important to point out that the laws around forced commitment are not lax. They are pretty stringent, but they are rarely followed. Hearings should thorough.

While there are a lot of problems with the mental health system, we first need to look at the legal system. On the copy of Cho's TDO a box is checked indicating had a lawyer appointed. Why hasn't the media interviewed that lawyer, or the judge for that matter.

Sent by S. Russell | 12:33 PM ET | 04-25-2007

I heard parts of the excellent program on an old, old theme (since 1963 at least) about the rights of people with mental illness and the rights of society. I personally find the terminology, "non-compliant" offensive. I also feel this presumes that mentally ill people don't process information cognitively; nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, the truth about the absolute chaos and economically stratified system of behavioral health care delivery is worse than a travesty. The whole system from drugs (overwhelmed by the pharmaceutical industry) to poorly organized or lack of local, state, and federal programs (just wait until the soldiers come home from the Middle East and PTSD becomes a real national crisis) is broken. Funding with quick fixes won't work. What will work is to review and use results from many research studies on social options and solutions such as drop in centers, peer groups and mentoring, etc. along with psychotherapy and last resort medications (granted some people will need more aggressive medication usage). I would suggest laws and policies need to become more humane, such as single-point of entry delivery systems. The sad fact is that along with homelessness, poor nutrition, illegal immigration, health care, and a host of other critical social issues, our country is not willing to fund initiatives that work or even those that could be studied for greater knowledge. Divided by political stereotypes of liberal and conservative, the hand-writing has been on the wall for many years.

Sent by Patricia Kennington, Ph.D. | 12:44 PM ET | 04-25-2007

The program yesterday confused two issues under the topic of forced treatment. One was the involuntary civil commitment of mentally ill persons based on state defined criteria usually under one of two area, dangerousness to self or others or unable to care for oneself. Over recent years civil commitment has drifted from these two more general criteria toward the concept of "imminent dangerousness" making it more difficult to have individuals committed.
The second issue is that of the involuntary use of psychotropic medications. This issue has been know as the "right to refuse treatment" and usually comes into play once an individual is civilly committed and refuses medications. If a person in this circumstance refuses treatment the refusal is then reviewed either in a judicial or administrative hearing to determine whether the refusal should be over-ridden. This is the area that Mr. Oakes, your guest, referred to as "forced druging", a well used anti-psychiatry term used purposefully to denigrate psychiatric treatment.
The confusion of these two areas doesn't help individuals understand what has happened to civil commitment in this country where, as was reported, many, many individuals have not access to psychiatric hospitals or care and have ended up in criminal justice systems.

Sent by Joseph Bloom, M.D. | 3:34 PM ET | 04-25-2007

I heard the show yesterday and put a comment about the program aired on TOTN in a link to this Blog on another message board.

I'm thrilled to hear of an advocacy group to stop the abuse of the system and I would like to say one word, there is only one word about all of this discussion, that one simple word is that we must be working with the "Truth" in any proceeding the information has to be honest. As a person who also suffered the affects and effects of forced treatment for a diagnosis based on false representations. My character has been defamed and the system has many flaws. These are dangerous drugs and no one should be forced to take these drugs. David Oaks is doing the right thing and a good job.

GOD Bless those people helping others to tell the truth...

Sent by Gary | 5:07 PM ET | 04-25-2007

I had many overwhelming emotions and memories that I thought were delusions before I read about childhood abuse in "The Courage to Heal." I discovered I had all the signs of surviving abuse. Survivors can develop very intelligent minds to block out the abuse while it is happening, so they become very imaginative. I also had the signs of being a withdrawn, anxious high achiever who was constantly thinking. I was afraid to feel and connect with people. Feeling reminded me of the trauma, which I kept blocking out, along with the emotions of grief -- fear, sadness and anger. Sometimes these emotions broke through. So, survivors of abuse have symptoms that can look like psychotic breaks, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, autism or depression. When I was ready to face the feelings with support from a rape counselor, I began to heal! Now I go to an acupuncture doctor who has a PhD in traumatology and prescribes herbal medicine. The first time she treated me, I finally felt peace, joy and hope for my future.

Sent by Irene | 5:33 PM ET | 04-25-2007

Three-and-a-half years ago my paranoid schizophrenic brother, before fleeing to another state, stabbed our frail elderly mother with a butcher knife in the back, missing her lung by a millimeter. She survived, but this was only the latest of several violent acts or threats thereof, by an ill person who would never have done it if he had been taking his medications. After watching him go off and on his meds for over 30 years, it seems clear that a schizophrenic never wants to take his meds when he needs them (i.e. while experiencing symptoms). Attempts to reason with an unmedicated schizophrenic who is hearing voices are futile, and I don't believe any reputable mental health practitioner would concur with David Oaks' assertions that alternative treatments alone will succeed.
Mr. Oaks is also flat-out wrong with his claim that schizophrenics can fully recover. In so claiming, he does a vast disservice to the public and to families of the mentally ill who need guidance as to how to proceed, as their judgment can be clouded due to the way the illness creeps up on them.
Our family's experience has made me conclude that a reliably diagnosed mentally ill person who has even once been violent to other people should be made a ward of the court, to ensure they receive consistent care. I say "the court" and not the penal system, which cannot afford state-of-the-art psychiatric care like my brother received during the first 18 months of his sentence in the state mental hospital. Forced treatment is the only answer for people afflicted with illness that so greatly affects the mind, and people who would otherwise support the likes of David Oaks would much better serve the cause by lobbying for adequate funding of treatment facilities so they can continue with recent excellent advancements.

Sent by Trudy Russell | 5:40 PM ET | 04-25-2007

A common misconception of those of us with mental illness is that we wander the streets ruminating, acting out, and commit violent acts. As was pointed out in this interview, the mentally ill are more likely to be victimized. Being diagnosed with schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder, I found antipsychotics to be overwhelming not only from a financial standpoint, but also a physiological one. "Medication Lite" such as titrating clonazepam in smaller doses throughout the day, and reducing triggers (stressors) became more helpful than the mind numbing effects of risperdal or zyprexia.

Sent by wjp | 9:35 PM ET | 04-25-2007

I have kidney failure from taking lithium as prescribed for 12 years and never being told the dangers to my kidneys nor what signs to watch for in toxicity and not being told I needed to have my kidney function regularly tested. I know personally several other people with lithium kidney failure. We don't have informed consent in this country in voluntary psychiatric treatment, how can anyone propose more court ordered psychiatric treatment?

Maybe psychiatry is denigrated Dr. Blooom because it is the only medical specialty with some members far too willing to go on TV and radio and disrespect their patients as a group.

Sent by hymes | 9:43 PM ET | 04-25-2007

The state and the mental health facilty where Cho was held failed to follow the law. During Cho's evaluation, he wasn't even seen by a psychiatrist much less evaluated. And the judge who had to review his evaluation, had to know this, unless the facility falsified records. We need to know why the county and the hospital completely failed to evaluate Cho when he was there, and thus is fully responsible for the horrible deaths at VT. Every post to this list is about the failure of mental health facilities to protect the ill.

Sent by S. Russell | 8:59 AM ET | 04-26-2007

This topic is so important, and I was so moved by the comments. My daughter has suffered from mental problems for the past 2-3 years, she is now 19. It started in High School, and was misdiagnosed as "viral or chemical meningitis". She was an Honor Role Student, very active and popular. We got her help immediately, however it spiraled downward from there. She has seen multiple doctors, been on dozens of medications and has been hospitalized several times. We have tried over and over to get Doctors to listen to us, but as many of the guests and callers have already found out, caregivers seem sympathetic but are unwilling to take the "next step" that we all know is necessary, but might incriminate them in some way. Psychiatric caregivers, Police, Social Workers etc., at least in my area of the Fox Cities, in WI seem less than competent in treating the patients, but more than informed on "the law" and what they can and cannot do. They seem overworked, stressed and only willing to perform the CYA measures that allow them to keep working. We were fed the same story of letting my daughter go out on the streets. etc., becuase "that's all they can do?" Where are the heroes these days? Where are the people willing to buck the system and do what needs to be done? This country has become so bureaucratic and PC that it sickens me what has to be done to take care of a problem like this. People like us dealing with a mentally ill family member are left with little to no options, and the victims are piling up in droves, left to their wits. So I'm supposed to turn my back on my child, let her roam the streets, and let it take care of itself? No, I'm dealing with it, but it's taking it's toll - all we're looking for is some help!

Sent by Rick | 2:53 PM ET | 04-26-2007

I am a clinical psychologist with 30 years experience. In reading the comments on this blog, I think that we should be careful what we wish for. After the Virginia shootings many people are quick to talk about forced treatment of the "mentally ill." You need to know, first of all that multiple studies have shown that professionals in the field not only can't agree on diagnoses, but that their ability to predict who will hurt someone is exactly at the level of chance. On the whole, people who have been diagnosed psychiatrically have lower rates of violent behavior than the general public. Just because someone's behavior is "strange" doesn't mean they will be violent or that they should be treated with drugs that don't work and result in horrible side effects. In an actual case history of a patient, the person talked about suicide for weeks at a time, wrote dark poetry about daggars and blood, stopped talking for extended periods of time, was known as crazy to some, wandered around with a gun during periods of suicidal ideation, was too shy to approach women, was described as morbid, and was eventually diagnosed with "recurrent major depression." Who was this risk to society? His name was Abraham Lincoln.

Sent by Dr. Lloyd Ross | 4:33 PM ET | 04-26-2007

So, doctors told people they knew some of us were dangers when they could not know. This slandered us, leading to social isolation because people avoid so-called "dangers." How will we be compensated for this injustice? Correcting problems alleviates emotional suffering.

How can we tell if a diagnosis is reliable? If one doctor's opinion is not enough, then people are routinely locked up without reasonable cause. This violates the Fourth Amendment and means that state laws which govern mental hospitals are unconstitutional. When doctors detain people with no hard evidence of violence, they label them with unproven terms that mislead judges.

Doctors ask us to work together. OK. How about appreciating the value of difficult emotions? They present opportunities to undergo challenging maturation processes. Facing repressed feelings seems chaotic but can lead to growth. Painful feelings alert us to what hurts us. They motivate us to change situations to prevent further harm. How about employing all other methods before trying dangerous treatments?

Sent by Irene | 9:27 PM ET | 04-26-2007

How easy it is to forget you are dealing with American citizens who should be entitled to the same rights and freedoms as other American citizens when you are dealing with the psychiatrically stigmatized and labeled. Most of the violent crime in this country is commited by people who have not had a history of psychiatric hospitalization. Should we start locking people up randomly because any one of them might in the future commit a violent crime? The psychiatrically labeled are being scapegoated, as is so often the case, for the acts of one individual who seemed to be very much in controll of his faculties.

Sent by Frank Blankenship | 1:27 AM ET | 04-27-2007

It's easy, in times of crisis to look for security in anyone claiming to offer it. Psychiatry is full of such offers. But can it deliver? Psychiatric drugs have been shown to increase unusual behavior. At worst they cause suicidal tendencies, parkinson's-like symptoms, violence, and brain damage. At best they get a person numbly high. Society will never really weed out the killers like the guy at v-tech, but if we're not careful, we might inadvertntly create more, while at the same time forcing others to pay for crime they not only didn't commit, but never would to begin with.

On a personal note psychiatry never helped me, but freeing myself from it did, because I was able to explore the alternatives. That's would have been impossible if I had been successfully forced to take drugs.

Sent by expatient | 2:06 AM ET | 04-27-2007

I would have to agree with the expateint ,drugs really don't work in the end they can't work because they make the patient form a depndency on the drug and can't survive without it.Doctors in the Mental health system try to argue that if a pateint if the drug helps them expeirnce how it feels to be normal perhaps one day they can act normaly on their own.When pateints do finaly get off of their medicine its olny a short time before they end up hospitalized again and again creating a endless cycle of hopsitlizations and drug therpays that often have a permanenly negative effect on them.Dragging innocent people who often just feel somewhat depressed into the most distubing places on earth(mental hostpitals)is a horrible decision they are so permanenlty scarred by the dyfuctionality of others that they can't return to their lives normaly and fuction like the rest of us .Instead of forcing people into what really are prisons were abuse and negilence is common .People should try to seek help from private pyshcatrist who are far more nicer and sypathetic and don't have the tednecy to start using needles at the drop of a hat and make prejuded decsions that often result negativily for the pateint.However people like cho should be certaintly hospitalzied becauset they are a threat but its most unfair and cruel to place people in a hospital for feeling depressed since dramatizing their syptoms often leads to uhappieness,shame and somtimes suicide.

Sent by Dr.phylo | 10:55 AM ET | 04-30-2007

The mind is not hard to work with, we tend to make things much more complicated than they really are.

Using chemicals instead of talking and listening and when we are working with two minds and trying to bring them together as one mind as in how people connect for the purpose of marriage we only need to be able to get the two minds talking to each other and on the same page.

I reported that I was committed on false pretenses, the real shame was the way I was handled by the psychiatric community, they the doctors and nurses were not looking to find the solution to the problems, they wanted to provide a chemical cure.

Certainly in some cases there may be a need for chemical treatment, but in most cases I believe the answer is to talk to the individual or couple to create a dialogue and a path for understanding.

Violence errupts out of frustration, not getting a need met.

Sent by Gary | 8:16 PM ET | 05-01-2007

I was surprised to read in the blog comments that someone said, "Mr. Oaks is also flat-out wrong with his claim that schizophrenics can fully recover." Anyone is free to look at the medical literature and discover that there is a large amount of literature that a percentage of people diagnosed schizophrenic (yes, even "correctly diagnosed"), have fully and completely recovered. Even our opponents on the issue of forced psychiatric drugging like E. Fuller Torrey admit this. It surprises me that someone would push for more forced psychiatric drugs, without even knowing the very basic medical literature that already exists. Please, get your facts right, especially before weighing in to advocate for taking away our most fundamental human rights.

Sent by David W. Oaks | 2:25 PM ET | 05-09-2007

If a mental health practitioner cannot establish a trusting relationship with a patient, they have no business forcing treatment on that person. That doesn't mean that the person might not need some kind of help, just not the kind which the practioner wants to give. I know the powerful don't want to admit that something as simple as peer counseling might actually be a better option, but it can be. Given the severe physical harm that can be caused by some of the drugs that are forced on people - (increasing their risk of heart disease and diabetes, for example) - I'd think that people of conscience would be very hesitant to impose this on another person.

People seem to forget that propensity for violence is rarely predictible. I think that those who believe in preventative detention for people who they decide have such propensity would not believe in it if they thought that they themselves could be ensnared in that net.

Some people say they have benefitted from being forcibly treated, but many others of us feel we have been harmed by it. If the practitioners believe in the value of their treatment, they should be willing to stand behind it. Since it seems there is always going to be some kind of forced treatment, those who have had such treatment forced upon them and don't feel they have benefitted should have some kind of recourse. Either they should be able to sue for damages, or press criminal charges against those who did them this injustice.

Forced psychiatric treatment of any kind for someone who has not been convicted of a violent crime is a prima facie injustice - an injustice which can only be disproved by future statements of satisfaction and gratitude from the person who had such treatment imposed on them. In the absence of such statements, those who force anyone else to undergo such treatment should be held accountable.

Sent by Kent R. | 7:46 PM ET | 05-09-2007

I have to say that I'm up in the air on this issue. I feel every person should be entitled to choose for themselves if able to, yet I was raised in a home with a bi-polar mother who I wish had been forced into treatment. Life with this woman was and still is a living hell. The beatings, the yelling, the awful and demeaning comments, the distructive behavior....no child should have to endure such treatment. Mental illness is indeed a very scary subject. Especially when your a 9 year old child being torn out of bed in a dead sleep on the end of a leather belt being told to get the hell out of her house and told how much you are hated and that you should die.

Sent by Lori Collins | 4:11 PM ET | 04-12-2008

I have a boyfriend who recently heard voices and was put on Seroquel. In the past he only had one incident and it was because of dehydration then too. The drug made him ten times worse and I wonder when people talk about their relatives being really psychotic is it because they have build up a dependence on these drugs. How were they before they went on them, was it as bad? He now has diabetes because of this drug. I want him off it altogether because I know he could have gotten better by being treated physically. I don't know about everybody's case but I don't feel it is appropriate to force treatment on someone. If you have a relative out of control they may be having withdrawal symptoms and may have some underlying physical problem that could help them better than giving them a pill that will shorten their lives. Look at it this way if you give alcohol or heroine to someone it will initially seem to help them until they become addicted, then you have to up the dose and more and more crazy behavior appears. If you try to take an alcoholic off drink they may go into the DT's and have to be given more alcohol to recover. Prescription drugs work the same and from what I have seen are very dangerous drugs.

Sent by Mary McAlinden | 9:10 PM ET | 06-10-2008