A New York Walkabout

I live in San Francisco, my 12 year old takes public transportation to school every morning, and my younger son regularly runs (well skateboards) around the corner to fetch me an ingredient from the store. I think the beauty of city life is allowing kids a sense of independence!

Sent by Thorina Rose | 2:57 PM | 4-9-2008

I appreciate the opportunities I was given to be independent as a child. As an 8 year old, I was sent to pick up the daily newspaper on a small NC coastal island and was followed home by a man, in a car, and was nearly abducted and visually exposed to things I should not have seen at that age. I feared being alone after that, but now realize how that experience makes me a stronger individual today and I do not fear being alone, abducted, or nearly anything else.

Sent by MK | 2:57 PM | 4-9-2008

I grew up in Boise, Idaho in the fifties and sixties near the north east edge of town. When I was five or six years old (1953) I was signed up to go to kindergarden in the basement of a local church throughout the sumnmer . The story is that I never went to the school and every day went with my dog up into the surrounding hills and entertained myselkf in adventures. Near the end of the school session my mom called the school to see how well I had been doing and found out that I had never showed up.

Sent by Davis Straub | 2:57 PM | 4-9-2008

When I was 14-15 year old, my mom would drive me to a farm and drop me off by myself so I could go hunting, and then pick me up several hours at dusk. This was in the 1970's in NW Indiana. I was allowed to do this because I trusted to be safe and hunting was a activity that I loved and it helped keep me from going down the wrong road of drugs, alcohol, and bad friends.

Sent by kevin shufran | 2:57 PM | 4-9-2008

Don't kids in New York still take public transportation to school? It has been 30 years since I have lived there, but I can't see the City installing a school bus system. What is different here?

Sent by Tom Sanders | 2:57 PM | 4-9-2008

Lenore mentioned the "once in 35 years" type tragedy, but she did not mention the daily tragedy that happens all over our country to female and male children alike, which is sexual predation. Sadly 1 in 3 girls are sexually assaulted by the age of 18 and the numbers are less for boys, but are still concerning. I'm in my 40s. Was I allowed to wander around alone at 9 years old in my neighborhood? Yes I was. Was I assaulted? Yes I was. Again that risk is 1 in 3, not once in 35 years.

Sent by withheld | 2:57 PM | 4-9-2008

follow-up to my first post - listening to your guest defend herself - Guess I should explain - obviously - our son Charle [raised in Chicago] already KNEW how to use PUBLIC TRANS and MAPS and get himself "home" -- did I PLAN to have him get "lost" in Paris??? Heck, no. BUT... goodness... I think urban Americans have ridiculous notions of how our kids need to be "molly coddled"...

Sent by Kathleen Engman | 2:58 PM | 4-9-2008

Good for you Lenore!

I grew up under the shadow of an overprotective parent who at age 15 was a victim of a tragic (albeit rare) stranger carjacking/kidnapping. A great mom, but her abject fear of strangers greatly affected me. Until I looked at actual statistics, that is. Kudos for you!

Sent by Miriam Davey | 2:58 PM | 4-9-2008

I remember one of my first trips to Japan, I saw a 5 or 6 year old walking along in downtown Tokyo, clearly by herself. I looked around and watched her walk the street to make sure she was by herself. I then commented about this being very unusual to my host and was informed that children are protected by everyone on the street. After many more visits, I came to accept that as the norm in Tokyo.

Sent by James P | 2:58 PM | 4-9-2008

The discussion was good until Lenore Skenazy wouldn't allow others their opinion. Just as she was defending her right to her opinion on this issue she didn't allow others. I turned it off at this point....

Sent by tonya musial | 2:58 PM | 4-9-2008

My daughter-in-law, who lives in a northeastern city close to NYC, was just arrested this year and charged with child neglect. She called Starbucks in advance and ordered a drink. She stopped to buy it, locked the car w/ her very bright 7- and 5-year-olds in the car. They were never truly out of her sight; she could see them through the window. But she was charged with child neglect and investigated. She has had to pay $2,000 for a lawyer (she tried to go w/out, and the judge ordered her to get a lawyer and come back). She will also have to pay a fine.

Sent by Kay Shively | 2:58 PM | 4-9-2008

Neal,
I'm glad to hear Ms. Skenazy's statistics. A few years ago when my youngest son was 25, he talked about moving to New York City and I was scared to death he would get killed by some violent maniac. I laugh with Ms. Skenazy about my fears.

Sent by Claudette Robertson | 2:58 PM | 4-9-2008

I remember as a child growing up in central NE during the '60's that we kids would be gone from the house immediately after breakfast and not return until dinner - all for the sake of playing with friends or other neighborhood adventures. I can't imagine my own children doing the same today, and it's unfortunate that the lifestyle of growing up out of doors has seemingly passed them by.

Sent by david perry | 2:58 PM | 4-9-2008

I think she's great. I live in the country and let my kids go to the creek a mile away alone, from age 7 or so on. Of course, when they were younger I made sure it was when the creek was barely moving and all of a foot deep. As they aged they tackled spring meltwater, ice, winter camping etc.
They learn to make good decisions and rely on their own judgment. Now, as teens, they make good choices because they are used to responsibility and decision making.

Sent by Sarah | 2:58 PM | 4-9-2008

As a child of the 70's and was taking the bus alone in Detroit when I was in the 1st grade, without taking a 2nd thought. I knew about not talking to strangers and to always sit next to the bus driver. My oldest son who is now 20yrs old was taking the bus on his own by the time he in the 6th grade. But I also have a 10 yr old now and currently and live in Baltimore and with him I CANNOT see myself letting him go anywhere on his own. It is sad that I feel that way, but times have changed between the 70's, 90' and now. More power to you.

Sent by Orsietta | 2:58 PM | 4-9-2008

I think that if children are taught at an earlier age what it means to be independent in public and how to maneuver through daily activities on their own, they will be much more capable of dealing with the "sudden" independence of a teenager with a driver's license.

Sent by Carrie | 2:59 PM | 4-9-2008

Good for her! The mention of guns is interesting to me too.

The kids I grew up around who had guns were also the ones who had been taught proper respect for them by their parents and through classes. It was kids like me who had no frame of reference and could think of them more as toys, and have them enjoy "forbidden fruit" status.

Sent by Ethan | 2:59 PM | 4-9-2008

THANK YOU FOR THIS GUEST!!! She is the absolute voice of reason! I am a Guardian ad Litem in MN, and I work with a lot of overprotective/coddling parents. The other day I had a grandmother freak out becasue she heard her 9 year old granddaughter had operated an electrical appliance on her own, while her parents were asleep. The appliance in question: a toaster. She freaked out because a child made herself some toast for breakfast. Unfortunately, this attitude is not all that unusual, and I run into more and more children who have NO independence, no problem-solving skills, and tend to grow into whiney, helpless and dependent adults.

Sent by Jen | 2:59 PM | 4-9-2008

Go Lenore!!

As a NY-raised kid, I support your premise...it did wonders for me when I "soloed" mass transit in the 60s. We raised our kiddos with the same idea -- learn about life as soon as you're ready.

Sent by Rick Acosta | 2:59 PM | 4-9-2008

Augh. Parents these days get it coming and going. If we aren't cautious ENOUGH, then we hear from the same cohort who called Child Protective Services on Ms. Skenazy. But if we do follow the rules and safety advice, we get mocked as overprotective "helicopter mothers". And yet, serious cases of brutal child abuse go unreported when people "don't want to get involved" or reported cases get mishandled by overworked staff, as happened in my town with tragic results. Something is seriously wrong here.

Sent by Kristina | 3:00 PM | 4-9-2008

I totally support Leonore. I gave my kids ages 10- 5 a days pass on the Singapore's MTA(pubic transit) and they explored the city of Singapore with cousins the same age as them.
The amount of confidence they got from that trip allowed them to travel across India and the United States by themselves. themselves

Sent by Namita Sathyan | 3:00 PM | 4-9-2008

Would Lenore have done this with a daughter?

Sent by Asha | 3:01 PM | 4-9-2008

I grew up in boston and was luck (or unlucky, depending on how you see it) enough to have a mother who tended to throw the kids out dring the day. The refrain was "got outside and play," and boy, did I ever!

Around the age of 10 or 11 I started to realize that I could jump onto the subway and start exploring the city. I can clearly remember a day when I realized that he city was my oyster and my world grew exponentially almost overnight.

I say let the kids outside. They will stumble, they will get hurt and they will learn. I don't think that I would be the avid traveler that I am today if I hadn't been forced to go out and explore the world around me when I was a child.

Sent by Mike Shaw | 3:01 PM | 4-9-2008

I do NOT agree with what she did. I think Lenore sounds very "Flip" talking over people when they call in is not Rude. This is not the olden Day's, it takes One time for a Kid to go missing ask any parent who has lost a child because of abduction know's how it feels. What would have happened IF there was a bomb threat in the subway???Think about that. I am sure her son is very bright but I believe she is over confident.

Sent by Carolyn | 3:01 PM | 4-9-2008

I am 52 years old and grew up in Dallas. We didn't have subways, but I started riding city buses alone from one part of the city to the other starting at age 9 in 1965.

Excursions across town always involved riding a bus from my neighborhood to downtown from where I would get a transfer to another bus to complete my journey. I often did this to meet my mom for dinner at a restaurant when she got off from work or to visit my grandmother.

Whenever there was any lag time between buses I'd stroll through department stores while I waited.

I also frequently took to the bus to the main library downtown.

I credit these experiences with helping me mature and to grow up to be a confident, independent adult.

Sent by Rene' | 3:01 PM | 4-9-2008

I completely agree with Ms. Skenazy on this subject. I can offer a more recent example (I am 25 years old) of childhood emancipation. My parents were rather liberal (especially in relation to most other Long Island families) and allowed me to take public transportation pretty much where ever I desired by the age of 12 - by the time I moved to Philadelphia (parts of which make East New York look like Disneyland) at age 16, I was completely comfortable and capable of navigating and being aware of my surroundings. I can't even begin to fathom what kind of perspective I would have on life if it wasn't for the liberties granted to me at such a young age. Cheers to you!

Sent by Corey | 3:01 PM | 4-9-2008

I do think children have been handicapped by overly protective parents. I have a friend who still accompanies her 17 year old daughter to public restrooms for fear of pedophiles.

I grew up in a relatively rural community about 100 miles to the west of Boston. We were thrown out of house in the morning after breakfast, and managed to entertain ourselves just about anywhere in town until lunch. Once we outgrew naptime, we were thrown out again until dinner.

My mother would say: GO PLAY.

When I was 11 my father let me and my girlfried walk around ChinaTown and the Common alone, while he purchased merchandise along Kneeland Street in Boston( the old garment district). When I was 12, I traveled to Boston, alone on a greyhound bus ( remember the Playboy Club next to the bus station?) to visit my sister in Boston, and also traveled freely ( alone) on the Subway.

Perhaps my parents took risks, but I was definately ready to go away to College and take care of myself when I was 18. I have since traveled all over the world, and I think that the self confidence that I developed as a child has a lot to do with it.

Sent by haironfire | 3:02 PM | 4-9-2008

Ummmm, I was just listening to this lady on your station. Does she not see the news or read the news?? OK....so SHE says "it's a fear brought on by society" Ummmm.....YEAH....it is....wanna know the reason?? Killers, child molesters, perverts....and the list goes on. C'mon lady, you cannot be serious, you honestly think that because he made it home safe the FIRST time....that (still being so young) the second....third....time, he will be fine. Well, gee lady, you take that chance with your kid...ME? NO...sorry, don't trust everyone! Hope I don't see your kid on an amber alert. Ignorance is bliss!!

Sent by Melissa | 3:02 PM | 4-9-2008

Niel, here is a little story about my great-great-grandfather. At age 9 he left home in Indiana and hired on as a hand on a wagon train headed to Oregon in 1860. Upon arriving he worked with them for two years and later became a blacksmith apprentice in the community of Hillsboro west of Portland. By age 19 he received a land grant from the government and relocated in the community of Redland near Oregon City. The rest as they say is history. Now 5 generations later I tell this story to my sons about self reliance and courage. It seem to be working here in Alaska.
R.L.Williams

Sent by Roger Williams | 3:03 PM | 4-9-2008

I only caught the last ten minutes of the segment, but I have to say the I found Ms. Skenazy very rude. Of the three people I heard call in, not once did she let them finish a sentence. I may have agreed with a lot of what she was saying, but her comportment was such that I wasn't inclined to listen to her.

Sent by Pam Anderson | 3:04 PM | 4-9-2008

This lady is crazy....she would be regretting her decision should something had happened to her son! yes, her son was obviously capable of finding his way home, but is and could have been an easy victim to a predator of sorts.

She also compares the area in question to Boise ID...I currently live in Boise and would not allow my 7 yr old son to walk our streets unattended. Violent crimes occur here everyday!

It's unfortunate that she is receiving such publicity for what I would consider an irresponsible stunt!

Sent by Mike M | 3:05 PM | 4-9-2008

Neal......please don't schedule any "Lenores" on your show anymore. She wouldn't give you or the callers a chance to talk. Early on you mentioned an event that happened in NYC 35 years ago and she went off on how it was rubbish. The rest of the 'Nation' never heard what that event was. You are an excellent host, please reel them in when needed. It was painful to listen to this.

Good subject though.

Sent by Bo Pittman | 3:05 PM | 4-9-2008

I applaud Ms.Skenazy! I began driving at 10 years old and operated my parent's business by myself at the age of 12. I also traveled alone on the greyhound bus at that age. I applaud her because I heard her on the Today show earlier in the week and her words resonated with me. I am normally a reasonable human being, but I let the horror of the news cause me not to allow my children to make mistakes. Unfortunately because of other factors, I over-protected my own children! I certainly see the mistake of this. I agree that there needs to be a balance.

S.E. White

Sent by Sheila White | 3:06 PM | 4-9-2008

Hi,
Years ago, and some will say times were different but no!, I had to live in Ft. Montgomery, NY, (near Bear Mountain) while my mother lived in Baldwin on Long Island. This was in the fifth grade but once a month I was sent the bus fare to catch a Trailways bus on Rte 9W, take it to the NYC terminal, catch a subway to Penn Station, get myself to the LIRR terminal and find the appropriate train to Baldwin, and walk the 2 miles from the station there to her apartment. She worked so I had a key to let myself in with and await her return from work if she didn't beat me there. On Sun. or Mon. I would be dropped off at the LIRR station to reverse the trip back to my Grandparents home. It did not seem a great freeing experience to me at the time (1944) but rather something that had to be done. There were lots of unsavory characters around but a kid was told to avoid them and I was good at it. I certainly never worried about my, or my kids' independence after that.

Sent by joseph o'connor | 3:08 PM | 4-9-2008

Here Here! I have tried very hard to promote independence in my children. (one boy and one girl) Some parents think that when they are fending for themselves that I am being a lazy single father but the reality is that I work harder to make my children act independently. Having done similar things, I am sure that it took more work for today's guest to gather a subway map, explain the stops and provide the money than it would have been just to drag her son back home.

My best story: When my son was 15, he had friends over to our house on a Friday after school to gather before going the opening of a movie later in the evening. I left six teenagers in the house for a few minutes to pick up some pizzas. During my absence, another kid was dropped off and the mother wouldn't leave until I got back. She was horrified that I had left these kids alone. I explained to her that if someone got hurt, I assumed that someone knew how to dial 911 while my Eagle Scout son took care of the first aid. Did this mother think that these otherwise good kids would have a ten minute impromptu orgy? Did she think that evil doers would swoop in and shoot up the place in my absence (assuming that they would not swoop if I was there)? Does she not trust her child or herself? What does she think happens during the other times these kids are together without an adult around?

Sent by Don Austin | 3:10 PM | 4-9-2008

Before the columnist begins throwing statistics around, the heart of this matter is that a 9-year old is, by any definition, a child. Her job as a mother is to teach these lessons, sure, but I think her actions were cavalier. This -or any- child could use a couple more years before being set loose on their own in a major metropolitan city. Is there a reason she can't be there with her child? Perhaps she should consider her own priorities as a mother.

Sent by Kelly Smith | 3:13 PM | 4-9-2008

Yay Lenore Skenazy. My children, now is their 20s, have benefited from their efforts to stretch their boundaries as I/they stretched my comfort zone. Confidence is a wonderful gift to give a child.

Sent by Beth Ignaut | 3:14 PM | 4-9-2008

Bravo! I think we tend to pamper our childern way too much now day's. Our society reflects that in so few people with common sence and as a result we are a people far to fearful.
~Mother of a 17 yr. old son

Sent by Melody | 3:15 PM | 4-9-2008

I understand and appreciate what Lenore was attempting with her son. However, I think her view may be somewhat narrow, at least from her personal experience by limiting it to New York. What she did with her son is also not the same as leaving children in your car which there are at least state laws against and possibly federal. In Oregon you can be arrested for leaving children unattended in a parked car under a certain age which would certainly include 2 year olds as referenced by one of your callers. This is typically used in regard to weather related issues(heat) as opposed to abduction.
Statistics are great to lessen the fear factor but they dont mean a thing if your child happesn to be one of the statistics.

Sent by lowell stuebe | 3:16 PM | 4-9-2008

Your guest, Lenore, was so rude to callers unless they agreed with her. I lived with my daughter in Baltimore when she was 6 to 18. I never allowed her to play in front of our house altho we lived in an area that seemed safe and very blue collar. She went to a private school so her friends were not in the neighborhood. When she was 17 we moved out of the city and shortly thereafter a few gun fights occurred a few blocks away. The nieghborhood had not changed since we moved there in terms of racial mix. Boy, am I glad I never felt that she would be ok roaming around the nieghborhood. I really think that Lenore was outrageous in her radio behavior. Why didn't Niel ask her just to stop interrupting the caller? He had a very valid point.

Sent by elizabeth burger | 3:16 PM | 4-9-2008

I have my Grandpa's work diary. In 1916 he put my 5 yr old uncle on a harrow behind two large workhorses. Grandpa was working on another farm.

I am a logger's son. In 1946, my 7 yr old cousins and myself (some younger) would saddle horses and ride some 6 to 8 miles, through the forest, to the Scarey Creek fire Lookout and visit the young man on duty there. Our parents were working and I don't think they worried.

Sent by Leonard Whitlow | 3:18 PM | 4-9-2008

I was raised in Texas in the 1950's. My family spent a year in England when I was 12 years old. I asked for and was given permission by my parents to go on a 400 mile bicycle trip around England by myself. I had a great time and it did wonders for encouraging my independence and sense of adventure. We raised our daughter in a rural Alaska community. When she was 9 we encouraged her to paddle a kayak with a friend to an island offshore and go camping, which she did on a regular basis and still does, now being safely and happily into her 30's. When she was 5 years old and we were living in Mexico, we started sending her to our neighborhood tienda on a regular basis to shop for us. When she was 6 we allowed her to walk to the city center with friends and play in the square. Our American society is too protective of children. They don't need to be protected as much as to be encouraged to explore and experience their environment. Highly recommend for all parents the book, "Last Child in the Woods".

Sent by Hayden Kaden | 3:19 PM | 4-9-2008

Keep in mind that statistics of what has or has not happened to other people cannot really be used to predict what will likely happen to you unless you act in about the same way as the other people.

For illustration: On a sunny day, you and 200 other people attending a conference walk between two nearby buildings. None of the 200 people get sunburned, but this isn't a good predictor for you if you burn easily and take an extremely long time to walk between the two buildings.

Along similar lines, I submit that if a certain child is innately vulnerable for some reason and spends a great deal of time in risky situations (much more than most children), that child's "chances" of the horrible stranger abduction and murder outcome far exceed what the statistic of 40 or so per year out of 75 million children in the US the statistic might suggest.

That said, I do think it is possible and problematic to be too protective.

Sent by Laura K. | 3:24 PM | 4-9-2008

Fear doesn't usually listen to appeals to reason and data, and the people in this country appear to be more susceptible to fear than reason. But being a good parent means that you need to take reasonable risks, or neither you nor your child grow up.

When our daughter was 15, she went on an Outward Bound trip and, along with a small group of teenagers, navigated and paddled the Boundary Waters in Minnesota. She returned a wonderfully different person. Meanwhile, our friends and neighbors thought we were something short of child abusers. It was still the best thing we could have done for our daughter at that time because she grew up. And so did we.

Sent by Stuart Swenson | 3:47 PM | 4-9-2008

Sorry but there is more chance for something to go wrong in a city the size of NY; then Boise; ID. 9 years old is too young to be allowed to make trips (other than to school) by himself / herself in this day and age unless you are in a very small community where everyone knows everyone and in turn watches out for everyone.

Sent by jm fay | 3:55 PM | 4-9-2008

I listened to the segment on Lenore Skenazy's decision to allow her son to ride the subway alone. While I believe she has the right, as a parent, to make those decisions, I found her to be very defensive and rude to callers. She often interrupted the callers and the host, and at one point, told a caller to "stop" and "let me throw statistics at you!" I found her to be one of the most annoying guests I have ever heard and if her radio demeanor is any reflection on her parenting skills, then I question her ability to make judgment calls regarding parenting.

Sent by John | 4:01 PM | 4-9-2008

I think this issue is more about Lenore Skenazy's need for attention and less about her son's development. He seems to be an unfortunate pawn in her need to create a polarizing controversy. I think she talks, in a nails-on-chalk-board way, more than she listens.

Sent by David | 4:14 PM | 4-9-2008

I did a similar walk-about on my own on a trip to D.C. when I was a pre-teen. More recently as a parent, I've been gotten in "trouble" by other folks: one time my 8 year old son was biking near our house on the sidewalk when a neighbor brought him home because she felt it was too dangerous for him to bike alone (he might get abducted). What?!

Sent by Greg R. of SF Bay Area | 4:56 PM | 4-9-2008

I believe as the your guest. I had to teach my son Roman at the age of 6 how to catch the city bus from home, to school and then to my job. I wasa afraid at first, but I knew that it was the only thing that I could do was to teach him and allow him to stand on his own two feet. Now Roman is an adult and he has a 10 year old brother that has been taken everywhere and does not have that independent spirit like Roman. Teach your children early and trust in them.

Sent by De Grisby | 5:01 PM | 4-9-2008

I work in an educational field with young adults (17 +) who travel with my organization primarily to developing countries. In the past 7 years that I've been working in this field I've spoken to all manner of parents who are "umbilically" challenged, and thankfully a greater number who are more than happy to put their children into real learning environments. But horror stories abound and quite frequently I see students that are college-bound who have very little clue about the world, budgeting, laundry, cooking, etc. I've had students not know how to boil water, and I've had students with very little ability to self-motivate without a constant cheerleader. This is precisely why people aren't "adults" these days until they're well into their twenties whereas it wasn't more than 50 years ago that we'd have a 12 year-old manage an entire farm for weeks in a remote setting while their parents were away. I'm very happy to hear that Lenore Skenazy brought her son into a STRUCTURED environment (equipped and ready for most eventualities) and let him loose. At what age do youth get to live their own lives without a parent (putative or otherwise)? I think this really begs the question, ultimately, of whether a person (kid or otherwise) would rather live a quiet predictable life or one with some edges. David White has said that the secret to truly feeling passionate is the ability to live on some edges at times. Would we have reached the moon without a structured adventure? Would America be here without the structured and well-prepared adventure of Columbus? At what point is life, above all else, sovereign?

Sent by Ethan Knight | 5:11 PM | 4-9-2008

This decision should be made on a case by case basis. If YOUR 9 year old is ready to ride alone on the subway then you and he/she should decide that not other parents who have deemed that THEIR 9 year old isn't/wasn't ready to ride alone at that age.

Sent by Gina of NYC | 5:24 PM | 4-9-2008

Of course more children die in car accidents. Riding is cars is a necessity. It gets kids to and from school, etc. And there is a level of control. We be certain to drive carefully, and to wear seatbelts, in short, WE DO WHAT WE CAN TO MINIMIZE THE RISK OF HARM. The author of this essay has done just the opposite. Purposely abandoning your child for your indulgent experiment is reckless and naive, at a minimum. OH, but the child really WANTS to do this on his own. Well then, maybe we should also allow interested kids to start having sex, because I bet they'd be able to do that, too. Since when is a kid wanting to do something and the kid being technically ABLE to do it mean that it ought to be done? You are an imbecile, and a dangerous one at that. A family who has no option, due to financial or other hardships, than to allow a child to get to or from school alone is a different matter entirely. In your interview you said sometimes you begin to think that you are crazy (because of others saying so)--well, both of you are correct. I can't believe NPR put you and your ridiculous (AND DANGEROUS) experiment and beliefs on the air.

Sent by Christy | 6:10 PM | 4-9-2008

I found this woman to be very strident and rude in asserting her views, while not listening to the people who called in to express theirs. Personally I think she is very naive, and I hope her child never is approached by a molestor or abductor, but children who are alone are targets. Does she have any idea who many released sex offenders there are out there? Obviously not. Children are not capable of dealing with those type of situations. My own 15-year-old was uncomfortable traveling cross-state on a bus. I assured him he would be OK (on a bus) but I would never send a young child to fend for himself. I note that most people who have written in keep referring to "when they were growing up". Yes, it was different then I think. I would never want my children to go the places or do the things I did in the 50's. At least now, people who are acquainted with this woman, will be alerted to the type of supervision she might give her children's friends who come to visit or sleep over. I think she's wrong and living in a fairy tale.

Sent by Susan | 6:18 PM | 4-9-2008

I found this painful to listen to as well. She was so defensive and confrontational it overpowered anything else she (and others) had to say. Very disrespectful.

Sent by Rune | 7:18 PM | 4-9-2008

At a very young age my parents would ask me for directions on how to get places such as how to get to my grandmothers. If I didn't know the correct place to turn my dad would stick to my directions until I learned how to get nearly everywhere in town. When I was let go on my own I was never followed or bothered by anyone until I reached 18. I feel it's ironic that parents dictate the safety of their children by their age.

Sent by Kate | 7:24 PM | 4-9-2008

I believe that from a very early age children need to be gradually exposed to limited risk. When my children were very young, I showed them in the kitchen my two sharp Japanese knives, my pride and joy. First, I taught them to respect how sharp and dangerous they were, then how I would hold one safely and where they were kept. They never felt tempted to touch them for play. I learned this approach from my dad, who called me and my siblings into our parents' bedroom when we were little to show us where a gun was kept- in a drawer by my dad's bedside. Dad emptied the gun of its bullets with proper procedures, opened it, laid its weight upon each of our palms for a second, and explained how it was there for protection and not to ever play with it because it could kill. He showed us exactly in what drawer he kept it, and told each of us kids that if we were curious to come ask him about it but to never touch it nor get near it, and not to discuss it with anyone else. We did exactly as he said. Regarding today's radio story, I think 9 years old is old enough to learn how to use the subway as an excercise of growing in self-confidence. The author has a great point in wanting to help her son be self-reliant.Children can handle potential danger by being armed with information and practical knowledge. I's a process, giving them a little bit of testing ground at a time and considering each individual's personality- not all kids can handle the same things at the same age. This columnist knew that her son could handle it and she empowered him with the opportunity to try it out.I think kids are better off when they are walked thru a situation and cut lose to try exercising new knowledge than when left in the dark. Overprotecting children constantly is the same thing as leaving them in the dark.

Sent by Stephanie Pringhipakis | 9:30 PM | 4-9-2008

I just listened to the podcast here in Japan where kids take the subway to and from school everyday. The kids are as young as 5 or 6 years old (and cute as a button in their school uniforms!). Japan is safer than NYC but nevertheless, crime does exist and the kids are perfectly capable.

Sent by BSENGEL1 | 11:36 PM | 4-9-2008

I was teaching my 10 year old how to cross a busy intersection in Ann Arbor, Michigan. I watched from a corner as he crossed all four streets using the lights to guide him. When a police car pulled up to ask him questions he pointed a finger over to the corner I was at and told them that his mom was making him "walk in circles..." !

Fast forward two and half years later and my now almost thirteen year old is very independent. He can get himself around town by foot, bike or bus. However, just two weeks ago when I dropped him off at the library there was a lot of snow coming down so I instructed him NOT to walk the quarter of mile way home when he was finished there. I felt that the roadways were slippery and the visibility poor. I did not want him accidentally hit by a car that might lose control. I told him that I would pick him, but again, because the roads were so bad it was likely that I would be there 10-15 minutes after the library officially closed. He had mittens, a hat, and a warm coat. I had told him to wait in a protected and lighted alcove of the building. He wanted to walk home, but I instructed him not to for safety reasons. I showed up when I said that I would, but was scolded by librarians who scared him with their threats to call police for my abandonment of him. (An almost 13 year old alone for 15 minutes!!!!) They threw a policy at me which upon reading did not apply and actually stated that if he were a few months older (13) he could be in the same situation, but with a baby (chaperoning a child under the age of six) without notice. I like that people are concerned. But it is important for children - allowing for individual differences and maturities - to learn how to navigate their world. It is crippling to them when we make ourselves necessary to them.

Sent by S. Maguire | 12:11 AM | 4-10-2008

The right time for a kid to do something like that one their own is when they do it on their own without parental permission.

Looking through the other comments I can see that the majority of us think she gave her son a wonderful opportunity. The opportunity to run away from home and to never go back. Omg, if everyone around her were so lucky. She talks toooooooo much and with such a know-it-all attitude. She tried to talk over everyone on the show. Deny it all she wants but with that need for control she was tracking her son somehow. I suspect he's had a cell phone with the GPS tracker activated since the day they came out.

Sent by crystal | 4:26 AM | 4-10-2008

I grew up in New York and I always felt very safe wherever I went and my mother felt the same way.To us, New York was the only world we knew and we knew it well. When I was ten, I took my first alone subway trip to my grandmother from Manhattan to the Bronx with her address burned into my mind. I only had fifty cents on me but I felt confident and free, at last. I made it back and home safely and it was a defining moment.

Sent by Lee Heuer | 6:51 AM | 4-10-2008

In 1954, age 6 years, I began using public transportation in San Diego. Had a bus pass for unlimited travel. It was the way things were for me and my family. We moved to Charleston, SC the next year when my father died. Used the city buses at will. Rides cost a dime. Was never accosted except by the bus drivers who made me sit up front rather than in the back. Was dropped off in front of movie theaters for the Saturday matinees beginning at age five. Was this freedom granted and encouraged to facilitate my future development? I think not. Bottom line, independence is what you make of it. Some developing personalities cannot handle such freedom; others bask in it. If a child is unable, or unwilling to assume responsibility at an early age, so be it. It would not have been possible to stop me.

Sent by Paul M. Loveall | 7:28 AM | 4-10-2008

I agree that kids today suffer a bit from over protection. I grew up in southern New England where kids were free to spend endless hours exploring the woods. My 8 year old does not enjoy the freedom that I did as a child. There were weirdos in the 70s too, but we knew our neighbors and knew who to avoid. Another great difference; the percentage of Moms that were at home, rather than working, was much greater. A small child is a target for predators. 11 or 12 would be a more appropriate age for parents to test and teach self reliance.

Sent by Julie Mrowka | 11:01 AM | 4-10-2008

There are millions of children who have to navigate much more treacherous territory than a luxury department store everyday.

Sent by Marie | 12:35 PM | 4-10-2008

Hearing the caller mention a mother who was arrested for leaving her 10 & 2 year old in the car while dropping off a video is upsetting. Seeing your mother get arrested would be more traumatizing than being alone in the car. It also would affect the child's perspective of the law.

One solution for the parents who are afraid to let go would be to supervise a trip like that. Have them make all the decisions while you observe them. It would help parents feel secure and children feel independent.

Sent by Kerstin Zielke (pronouced kuhr-sten zel-key) | 12:40 PM | 4-10-2008

I think that what you are doing is great. I listened to the show and felt that many of the callers are victims of the current American culture of living in fear based on irrational beliefs not grounded in reality. And about you not listening, I think other people just want to shove their fears down our throats and I am quite frankly tired of the environment that allowed Bush to be elected twice and maintain an unnecessary war. An environment of fear, and it is strangling this country to the point that we the free are willing to give up our freedoms and allow unconstitutional laws be made and enforced by an administration that feeds the fear to get their way.

I ran free as a child, so did my siblings and friends. We are all alive and doing fine.

Sent by Rick Baer | 12:51 PM | 4-10-2008

First, I think there was a "bait and switch" of the comments topic between the original page and the comments page.
Wasn't it "when did you start riding the subway"?
To answer that: Started riding Philadelphia's SEPTA bus system at 6, then graduated to the subway/el system at 7, riding daily to school in Center City, as did many other children, as I recall.

Sent by Paul | 1:58 PM | 4-10-2008

I recently visited Japan and was amazed and impressed by the number of very young children who ride the trains all over the cities by themselves. They are extremely independent. The comparison between Japan and U.S. made me realize just how overprotected our kids are. I applaud this experiment and would try it with my own kids.

Sent by Nisha | 3:27 PM | 4-10-2008

Don't these comments beg the question of why parents are more afraid now than parents were in the past? I'd guess it's due to our isolation from our neighbors. When you know your community and feel as though the community will watch out for your kids, you're more likely to let them roam.

Sent by Matthew | 4:32 PM | 4-10-2008

While you may jump in the ocean a thousand times and never land on a white sharks nose, so to may you land there on your very first leap.I want my child to swim in the ocean. Just not at dusk with a cut on his finger above the abalone and among the elusive seals, alone, in the cold blue waters known to be inhabited by the great white shark! For while our odds of doom may only have increased from one in a million to five, we have certainly quintupled our foolishness. There must be better venues to teach our children self -reliance

Sent by Rick Stager | 9:19 PM | 4-10-2008

i listened to this show last night and found the speaker to be very rude to people that called in who had a different opinion. very different from your usual guests. i am a mandated child abuse reporter(licensed health care professional) in california, and if i was aware of a situation where a child younger than 12 was left alone, i would make a report(and so would my colleagues).

Sent by mary | 12:21 AM | 4-11-2008

Listening to the show, I kept expecting to hear about the issue of race and how it structures our understandings and fears of the city. As northern cities increasingly became hubs of immigrants and Black southern migrants, the city populations changed, and so did our attitudes about cities change and we experienced white flight. I think that our fear of navigating the city paritally comes out of racism. These sites are considered dangerous because of who is thought to inhabit them and in the popular imagination, cities are inhabited by people of color. I'm surprised and concerned that no one has brought this up.

Sent by jonah bondurant | 6:45 PM | 4-12-2008

I praise people who foster the independent, self-sufficient spirit in their children.

Is the world a big place? Yes! Is it scary? Sometimes!

But, you have to make your own way through it. Whether on foot, on a bus, in a (gas-hog) car ... at some point in your life. You CAN also "wimp-out", live on delivery pizza and Chinese food. And only date your neighbors. But, what kind of life is that?

My wife is afraid to take the bus in our town. (Too many "commoners", I guess). But, she rides the bus in other cities when we travel,(go figure).
My teenage daughter is a "pro" at using our city buses. If she has money, and the need to travel, she does.

All to often, people are told to keep your children safe (from cars, boogey-men, swimming pools, knives,... etc). It's no wonder they don't grow-up!
Are they supposed to "magically mature" the night they turn 18?

Sent by Harold | 1:48 PM | 4-14-2008

In response to the individual who claimed that 1 in 3 females under the age of 18 fall victim to sexual assault, I was unable to find any statistic that supported this claim. However, in support of Lenore's actions I offer this: only a quarter of sexual assault crimes are committed by strangers. Additionally, the vast majority of these crimes occur in the evening. While any one is a potential victim, the odds are in the favor of letting ones child experience and discover the world on their own. Educating our children will lead us to a better tomorrow, not instilling them with fear and paranoia.

Sent by David Barud | 10:02 PM | 4-25-2008