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Hey, Where's the Ring?

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Meet Daniel and Glenn, two of the people we interviewed on the streets of Washington D.C. about what you'd want to know about your partner before tying the knot.

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OK, OK, we know. Valentine's Day is a made-up, commodified, Hallmark-sponsored holiday. But, we love it! Since we are journalists as well as romantics, we decided that this was an occasion for digging into one of the more interesting facts to come out of our country's rich database of census information, which is that married families with children are now a minority of U.S. households. Those of us who study social-science trends have been aware for some time that marriage rates have been declining among African-American households. But now it's all households. Why might that be? While we know that a lot of social scientists have addressed this question (and we asked one), we were equally interested in what the thoughtful non-experts had to say. So, we asked two writers -- one married (E. Ethelbert Miller), one single (Yolanda Young) -- who have written about marriage.

They were both a bit downbeat (to be honest), so we also asked Dr. Linda Malone-Colon, co-author of report, The Consequences of Marriage for African Americans, who has taught a course on marital relationships, for her view on why marriage still matters. Also, we wanted to get some man- and woman-on-the-street wisdom. A team of our producers went to Dupont Circle here in Washington, D.C., to ask: What should you know before you tie the knot?

And because not all of us are married, or partnered, we thought it only right and fair to get a take on Valentine's Day from Jasmyne Cannick, someone who is not only single, but newly single, for a very complex reason: Her beloved was in the closet and she, well, wasn't.

We hope you get roses from somebody. And yes, Happy Valentine's Day.... Smooches....

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11:59 AM ET | 02-14-2007 | permalink

 

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I'm personally curious about what legally constitute "irreconcilable differences." Is this just a cop-out?

Concerning the survey data that purports that married people are happier, etc., I would like to see the data for different groups within the survey. How does happiness in marriages between two people with the same type of spirituality or same religion compare to spiritually heterogeneous marriages? How does income levels or education levels affect happiness for both married and "single" people?

Sent by Steve Petersen | 12:52 PM ET | 02-14-2007

I would listen to this show on a regular basis. It is very interesting and engaging and presented well. Lots of diverse opinions make it very informative.

The comment on how living together is completely different from being married is so true, and it is a myth that many young people buy into. If I want to marry this person, I should live with him/her first. That doesn't work well and does not give anyone an accurate picture of what marriage will be like with that person.

Sent by Peg Allen | 1:14 PM ET | 02-14-2007

The "non-expert" interview subjects in the marriage story didn't really interest me. It was like overhearing someone elses mildly interesting conversation in a restaurant. Not very informative, or necessarily representative of the general population, full of trite cliches and platitudes. I like the rest of the show, though.

Sent by Sarah | 3:05 PM ET | 02-14-2007

The street interviews on this segment was a nice touch. NPR listeners often get exposed to academics and experts, but it is refreshing to hear something off the streets - it appropriately makes NPR more "public" radio.

Sent by Michael Waterhouse | 3:14 PM ET | 02-14-2007

This show is great, I really enjoy it. Michele Martin asks engaging questions and generates interesting discussion.

One thing that was touched on but might be best explored in more detail is how a generation of divorced parents affects individuals' marriage decisions now. This is an issue close to my heart, as my now-husband and I first started discussing engagement around the time that my parents separated, and by our wedding, they had been divorced a few months. One would think that that experience would make me LESS enthused about marriage, but surprisingly to me, it made me all the more eager to marry my husband, learn from my parents' mistakes and do things right. My parents' divorce was also a humbling lesson about exactly why you can never "coast" and think that you are immune to divorce - my parents' marriage fell apart after more than 30 years and they had become complacent in thinking that they would always work it out and could be obnoxious to each other in the meantime.

I think that the prevalence of divorce and being touched personally by divorce affects different people differently wit regard to their willingness or hesitance to get married. It likely depends on a number of possible personality or individual difference factors, and that idea is an interesting one to explore in an interview show like this.

The only negative comment I have about the show is that I think the diversity focus is a little forced sometimes. It is still valid to discuss general societal trends without the second question being "and how does that affect black Americans?" It is a valid and important question, but it feels forced sometimes - like the general discussion could continue a little longer before breaking up the issue by race. Also (and others' comments I've read here have said about this as well), diversity is more than just comparing white vs. black. What about biracial individuals? Other races (American Indian, Arab, Asian)? If I were a member of one of those groups, I would be insulted that a so-called "diverse" show continues to ignore my perspective. I think a broader view of diversity needs to be taken if the goal is to make it a DIVERSE show (as opposed to one focusing on how the black experience differs from the white experience).

Sent by Lauren | 4:15 PM ET | 02-14-2007

I was surprised and a little depressed by a lack of any religious issue brought up with marriage. In Christianity at least, marriage is a promise to God to work and live as a pair in love.

I think one of the big problems in marriage right now is anger and resentment for the other person in the marriage. This, I believe, mostly has to due with the selfishness of one or both spouses along with their desire to "not group up" (as was mentioned at one point).

I wasn't particulary interested in hearing from the two non-experts in this case, because basically, we were just hearing the opinions of two people. It seems like they could have been replaced by anyone who has written a self-help book on romance and/or marriage.

I did like hearing the "people on the streets" segment. It's weird, because some of their questions are things that I believe would and should come up in casual conversation with a potential spouse long before the "engagement question" comes up. I'd know if my current girlfriend wanted children, what her politics were, what her religions was, and how her family was like long before even thinking of marriage. And credit score? Maybe I'm not cynical enough, but that seems, well, shallow to me.

ANd while Valentine's Day itself is "fluffy", I really liked this segment; it wasn't fluffy at all.

Sent by Scott K | 10:14 AM ET | 02-15-2007

OK, I got no love on Valentine's Day so it was good to hear I wasn't alone. Great questions, Michel. I enjoyed Ethelbert and Yolanda. Too often you hear these things and it's statistics and studies alone, but not enough of individual stories. I liked the info about why marriage can be beneficial and the man/woman in the street piece. As well as the section about the lesbian woman. I can't agree with the person who commented that the questions about the black experience sounded forced. Maybe she has a misconception about the focus of the show? Isn't a good bit of the focus intended to be on the black experience? Or am I getting that part wrong? I like that you, Michel, clearly have a perspective or "voice" that comes through in your questions and the topics you choose to investigate. What I don't like about some shows is you don't get the feeling that the host has a take on the world even if he/she is open (and she must be) to exploring contrary or contrasting views. Successful radio/tv shows are like accompanying someone on a walk in the world and stopping with them when they stop and pick up something along the path and say, "Hey, look at this. Isn't this interesting? What do you think about this? Crazy (beautiful/ugly/sweet/bitter), huh?"

Sent by Stan | 3:37 PM ET | 02-15-2007

Excellent questions, Michel. But I wonder how Dr. Linda might've regarded the suggestion that the correlation of economic prosperity and marriage may be interdependent. Your first (male) speaker referred to the fact that many marriages break up due to economic hardship.
Nonetheless, with the list she provided it seems the principal goal that most (surviving) marriages achieve is one of stability through interdependence.

Sent by Micha | 9:38 PM ET | 02-15-2007

I found it interesting that of all the questions people said they would ask, not one was 'do you love me?'.

Perhaps marriage is unpopular because our culture pushes the individual. Being married means having someone you give love to, take care of (not just when their sick), and think about as much if not more than you think of yourself. If we are really interested in marriage, perhaps the first thing we should remember is that its not all about 'me' anymore. Its all about us. Our culture doesn't value the us beyond the tokens of Valentine's Day. Family and partnership are subverted to the individual. We want it all: the easy marriage where its still all about 'me' and the partner is off to the side. Where 'I' pull myself up by my bootstraps; marriage is easy to get rid of if 'my' differences are irreconcilable with my partner's. Both people have to understand life won't be the same after marriage. It is scary. The moment I realized I was married and that was forever, I was terrified. But at the same time, I was excited. It was a new adventure with my husband. Sure, I have changed over time and so has he. We thought one way, now we think another. I wanted to get married to be with him forever because I loved him. I wish I could define the reason in objective terms, but I can't. We've been together a good amount of years now, but it never feels like its been forever. There's always something new which surprises me. We argue, we get annoyed with each other's stupid habits, we have good moments, and bad ones. Marriage is work. And most people just aren't willing to change their lives to be in a marriage.

Sent by Kara H | 6:47 PM ET | 02-16-2007

I have enjoyed the Rough Cuts I've heard so far but the marriage program really got my blood flowing. First, I thought some of the questions that Michel asked were rather hostile towards marriage. It was as if marriage were a kind to some horrible crime and why would anyone want to bother (although I got the impression from the show that Michel was married herself, I could be wrong about that).

When the conversation turned to the black community, I concur with some above that the religious component was complete left out of the conversation. Marriage is not just something thought up by the cave men of old. It is something that God set into motion between a man and a woman (which Jesus reinforced in Mark 10).

Also, there didn't seem to be much discussion about the social factors against marriage in the black community. The hip-hop culture seems to promote a loose lifestyle devoid of consequences of premarital sex; teen pregnancy and the high percentage of black men in prison which reduces the pool of men available for support and form families.

Keep up the good work on the program but there needs to be a more balance presentation of the issues. If you are going to talk about marriage, you need not only the sociologist, the man/woman on the street (which was a good segment) but also the preacher.

Sent by Rev Darryl M. Matthews | 1:44 PM ET | 02-18-2007

to Rev. Darryl--you were among a number of listeners who thought there should have been more discussion of the religious aspect of marriage. I see your point. In retrospect, though, what I think I should have said up front we are going to set religion aside for a moment, because I think if you are religious and are guided by your faith there's nothing to argue about. I think you'd be more likely to support and desire marriage. I was more interested in how those who don't share those values think about marriage. I'm sorry you thought I was hostile. But I think one of things I like to do--which I think makes our show worthwhile-- is to provoke deeper thought and sometimes pushing people with a hard question is the best way to do that. And for the record, Rev. Darryl, you're right, I am married, very happily so. In fact, after that segment I made sure to call my husband to tell him I appreciate him! thanks for writing....

Sent by Michel Martin and the Rough Cuts team | 6:24 PM ET | 02-21-2007

Stan, thanks for the post. That "voice" you hear from Michel is exactly what makes us different. And the tone of that voice is always evolving. As journalists, we can never become oblivious to the world we live in.

Btw - I, too, played it solo on V-day....and it was cool. We'll see how things go next year...

Sent by Lee with Rough Cuts | 6:42 PM ET | 02-21-2007

There are lots of poor, uneducated, desperate married couples in countries like india.

There are many unmarried, affluent and educated couples in Denmark. Stop making singles feel guilty!

I recently got married, but I enjoyed my singlehood just fine. Mejor sola que mal acompanada.

Sent by NoSpellCheckr | 6:46 PM ET | 02-23-2007

I hope you can go to Denver in late June to see all races and all faiths (yes, and no faith at all, too) working together as the Coalition for Marriage, Family and Couples Education. Counselors, judges, priests, lay people, and educators come together to help set the best tone possible in relationships and to provide the quickest and east traumatic healing of past difficulties.
All done without a trace of psychobabble. It is a thing of beauty. All the professionals that I have contacted have never seen a conference so vibrant and helpful to all.

Sent by Robert Harmony | 10:13 PM ET | 03-01-2007

I thought this was mostly a very good segment.

THANK YOU for including a lesbian's experience of Valentine's day, although, I have to admit, it's a little weird that since you were doing a show about marriage, you didn't find a married (or divorced) gay or lesbian to speak to. You can find them in Massachusetts and Canada. You might also have questioned whether there's a difference between civil union, domestic partnership, and marriage.

I also thought the interview with Dr. Malone-Colon was v. v. good. My only disappointment was that you let her confuse correlation and causation (if married people are happier, does that mean marriage makes you happy, or that unhappy people can't find someone to love, etc.).

I loved the people on the street interview, but I was a little iffy on the thoughtful non-experts. To be honest, I don't care what Yolanda Young needs to get married. I don't want to marry her, and I don't have any eligible bachelors to set her up with. Their discussion veered between overly specific (all about them) and overly general (they just didn't have enough information to talk about the subject in a way that felt useful.) I don't necessarily have to hear from a sociologist or historian, but a wedding planner, a marriage counselor, and a divorce lawyer would at least have a breadth of experience which would let them speak outside of their own lives on this topic.

Sent by Adrienne | 9:21 AM ET | 03-02-2007



   
   
   
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