Well, I'm still fried. I may have said that one or ten times before...I don't know...but this week, in addition to hosting the show as per usual, we were preparing for Thursday's Presidential debate. I say "we" because I roped a number of us into the madness -- brainstorming ideas, combing through the questions listeners/bloggers (a.k.a. YOU) were kind enough to send in, fact checking and rechecking -- to ensure that any question we asked was based on independently verifiable information.

So, here is a shout-out to ALL those in and out of the shop who helped get a sistah prepared. I mean that in the most inclusive way possible. My only frustration is that we had so many interesting ideas, we could not possibly get to them all.

Ok, back to Tell Me More: There was so much news this week it was impossible to feel we did justice to it all, so next week we are picking up the threads from a number of the stories that we wanted to cover but didn't, including the death of the immigration bill. We are sure there will be post mortems over the weekend and we want to know: what's next? How do you fix a system that everyone agrees is broken?

Please do send us interesting your ideas, or voices you wish to hear from...

AND, I am still on the hunt for cities and towns to profile where newcomers have changed the community in some way.

Last, I'd like to introduce you to two new members of the Village that is Tell Me More -- our summer interns, Addie Whisenant and Tamika Smith. We are excited because they both had stories on this week that they conceived and executed themselves. By that I mean that they presented ideas for discussions they wanted us to have on-air, contacted the people we agreed to interview and facilitated the conversations. Bravo them! We are proud of them because they are not only "whip smart," but they also have an incredible work ethic and work well together (sniff! -- I'm so proud)

But why don't I let them tell you more about themselves.

Addie, Tamika...introduce yourselves to our blogosphere.

...and I am off.

Sorry...little time to post. In intense prep for tomorrow's "events"...not to mention the fact that we still have a full show to do in the morning...

And keep those questions coming! Of course, I can't say what I'll use tomorrow night, but I do know Lee is planning to revisit the submissions in this Friday's BackTalk segment.

Catch you later...smooches.

notnA

Lee, here. I had to sleep on this one before writing.

I've never wanted to feel sorry for myself...I feared that if I started crying, I would never stop. -Dominic Carter

Glad we interviewed him, yesterday. Obviously, his story of abuse is one only he could tell so vividly.

Let me put you on to something. When it comes to men and abuse, especially sexual abuse, the playbook of "conventional wisdom" is clear: we don't talk.

For black men, perhaps the unspoken rule is underscored by the clouded perceptions surrounding our global image (self-identifying, here). There's the double-edged sword -- both the fascination and the fear of what can come across as a teflon-like, stoic persona (except for rage, of course...Bobby Cutts, Jr. comes to mind. Strangely, I feel for him, but abhor his actions. Don't ask why...still trying to figure that out).

But, here's what I believe to be the larger issue: being "open" can signify vulnerability, which can be too closely associated with powerLESSness...which, pardon my male ego (I'm still learning), can feel emasculating. In a twisted way, I guess we're prone to feeding the beast that salivates after our own demise. At the very root of this "conflict" seems to be the massive collision of pride, a really screwed-up set of societal norms and the rare presence of a safe place for these difficult conversations.

Still, we're not oblivious to what's all too common -- the silent suffering in the "brotherhood" as a result of childhood neglect and abuse. Come on. It's not surprising. Just look at the statistics...where are the fathers...our fathers? An Ebony magazine article, dated a few years back, offers more insight.

...Which brings me back to Dominic Carter. That man has courage. A lot of "brothers" -- black, white and brown -- would do well to take a page from his book. It's refreshing to see that his openness has brought him to fully realize the American dream: life, liberty and the pursuit of happYness (by the way, see that movie).

Your take? Men, women...feel free to share.

Also, I bet it would've been interesting to also hear from Dominic's wife. Oh well, maybe next time.

As I mentioned...yours truly will be one of the questioners at the PBS-sponsored debate of the Democratic presidential candidates...Tavis Smiley is the host and moderator and wrote an op-ed about it.

So, yes, participate. You don't have to be a person of color; all ideas welcome. Please "ship" them via our blog here...put "DEBATE" nice and big at the top of your message.

I have to say, this is my first time doing it this way, but it's certainly not my first time at a debate or asking questions. I was one of the questioners at the Children's Defense Fund Forum in 2004 (it was actually in 2003 -- they started early then, too) but we journalists huddled in secret in a hotel room and worked our questions out!

So this will be my first experience with "open source" debate preparation...don't let me down.

So many issues brought up in our last show...
Is there really a right to return to New Orleans?
Is the new (black) church more about bling than benevolence? Or, is it about time our spiritual leaders encouraged us to be healthy and whole? Can you save the world with an empty vessel? Have you struggled with this (whether you???re black or not)?

Where do you come out?

And...can't I just tell you? Jimi Izrael and I had WORDS after the show. They were talking about the whole thing with comic D.L. Hughley in yesterday's Barbershop discussion (On the Tonight Show with Jay Leno, talking about the whole Don Imus flap, Hughley said something to the effect that the Rutgers women ball players are ugly, after all)

Jimi's take: there are bigger things to worry about, free speech and all that.
MY take: why is it that when women speak up for themselves, there are always more important things to talk about?! And why is trashing black women's looks always good for a laugh?

Did you notice how Mr. Izrael just ignored me? Isn't that the point I was making? That when we speak about something we care about it...goes...into...silence.

I'll let him answer, if he dares.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend...

Did you happen to catch yesterday's segment on the issue of how various states and experts are grappling with the question of whether people with mental impairments should vote?

One of our producers brought up this idea...I think her interest was piqued by a New York Times story about a case in Rhode Island. The case involved a very specific issue -- that of a person who had been found "not guilty" by reason of insanity and was confined.

But we were intrigued by the more common scenario...impairment due to age. Everybody knows the population is getting older, and I bet just about everybody has a relative or knows someone with some level of dementia. The question here is: who decides when that person is too impaired to vote?

One of our guests, Bob Carolla, of NAMI made the point that there's a reason we don't employ literacy tests in this country: they were, and still are in some places, understood to be discriminatory. And, with elections so close, don't we all have an interest in clamping down on any "funny business" at the polls (oops -- channeling my mother...something she would say)?

Needless to say, we didn't come to any conclusions, but it was an interesting discussion...and a nice segue to our next topic.

SPEAKING OF VOTING...

Yours truly will be one of the questioners at the PBS-sponsored presidential debate next week at Howard University.

We want your questions. Do you have one...or three?

We are particularly interested in key domestic and international concerns that have NOT been showcased in the other debates.

What's on your mind? We'll be asking every day from now until next THURSDAY, June 28.

So, blog it out...and thank you.

I just checked my spam folder. Can I just tell you how many bogus pitches I have in there from people offering to give me "free" money? (along with the pitches for Viagra, of course. Hel-lo! Google me! I'm a girl. Don't need it. Thanks anyway...)

But back to the free money, these pitches are all the same:
"Boy, do I have a great rate for you...as long as you sign over your house."

Well, let me reiterate what my spam blocker has already ably communicated. That would be a no, thank you. Actually...that would be hell no.

But it does remind me that everyone is not blessed with a) comfortable income, b) financial literacy, and c) a skeptical nature, which is why some people (and the economy) are in financial trouble right now. This brings us to yesterday's segment on subprime mortgages...

It's estimated that a million homes may go into foreclosure this year, the majority of them owned by borrowers with subprime mortgages. Our guest Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-NY) was quick to remind us that not all subprime mortgages are the result of predatory lending practices. But it is clear that these instruments, which allow borrowers with less than pristine credit to buy homes, have a serious downside. Most have low "teaser" rates, and they are adjustable, so when rates go up, the monthly note goes up, sometimes beyond the borrower's ability to pay. And if that borrower becomes confronted with added financial difficulty -- health problems, job loss, credit card debt -- big trouble!

But see, this is why I try not to talk to my guests too much before the interview...sometimes they say interesting things...and since we talk about it before the interview, it doesn't always come up in the interview (darn). What Congressman Meeks said before we went on the air was this: sometimes minorities who don't NEED to get a subprime get one anyway because they assume they're going to be turned down...and so they are often grateful for what they can get.

Now, one would hope that a scrupulous lender would offer the customer the best choice. But is that realistic?

If I walked into the store and there were full-price skirts up front, and sale skirts, of equal quality, in the back...should I expect the salesperson to notify me of the sale? Or, is that on me?

Our regular readers/listeners know we are running our summer financial empowerment series and that one of the types of folks we want to help are people trying to buy a home for the first time. But as our financial guru Alvin Hall has pointed out: some people should NOT buy one. He also says is that if you're not prepared to put the time into educating yourself about your obligations, you're not ready.

Strong medicine.

I've made some dumb financial decisions in my time...often because I didn't know better. There was the time I bought insurance I didn't need -- literally as I was packing my dorm room, two days before graduating from college. Some salesman cold-called me, made a pitch, I fell for it. I got rooked! You know how I found out I got rooked? I started working at the Wall Street Journal where one of my editors covered insurance. So, that's sometimes just how it works...

We want to be a resource for you. We know we can't answer every question, but we want to try to make your life better through knowledge. If you want to get in on the summer series -- work with Alvin Hall to address issues of debt management, homebuying or starting a small business -- now is the time. We're going to pick our finalists in the next week or so. So, get on board.

And, even if you don't want that level of involvement (or exposure!), do feel free to submit questions here for Alvin anytime...

Getty Images

Happy Juneteenth!

...Or is it?

I don't know about you but I am fascinated by holidays. That might be because I am interested in the roots of things. For example, I didn't play the wedding march from Tristan und Isolde at our wedding because a) I don't like Wagner and b) I found out it's actually not meant to be a happy song. So that was the end of that.

But I have no hard and fast rule about it. I know people who don't celebrate Christmas with a tree because they believe decorating trees has pagan roots, and I know people who won't let their kids celebrate Halloween because of their view that it's too closely aligned with devil worship. I can see the point, but as all our neighbors will tell you...we show out for holidays. Oh yes. If there's a holiday we know about, we WILL be observing it -- and decorating too, I might add (and don't think it's just me, my husband is as bad as I am -- you think I'm the one who bought the two-story Frankenstein?)

So that brings me back to Juneteenth...celebrating the end of slavery in the US. Surely something to celebrate (and not just if you were a slave, I would argue. It was Martin Luther King's great insight that suggests oppression destroys the oppressor as well). Finding out TWO YEARS AFTER THE FACT? Not so much...

Do you celebrate Juneteenth? What is a fitting celebration? D.C. officials have taken it up in a big way. Here, it's also an opportunity to call attention to the lack of voting representation...there are parades and stuff like that.

But what do you think? Is it something we can all embrace?...In the same way that a lot of us have fun with St. Patrick's Day, if we're not Irish (I had a button that said "St. Patrick eats bagels" for years...wonder what happened to it?). And non-Mexicans are starting to enjoy Cinco de Mayo as an excuse to celebrate Hispanic culture (which is kind of funny because Mexico declared independence from Spain ELEVEN YEARS before the Spanish forces were actually routed on May 5, 1862)

Is Juneteenth something that speaks to shared values and experiences? And if we are celebrating...what's on the menu?

Two compelling stories today that we wanted to think more about. We couldn't choose, so we want to ask about them both. They're different. Hope it's not too much of a head snap. Here goes...

Education first.

Do you have kids in school, or do you work in schools? We're asking because we really want to know how parents, teachers, kids feel about the education reform measure, No Child Left Behind. It's five years old, it's up for renewal, and we know it's extremely controversial. One of our guests said that "hated" is NOT too strong a word to describe its reception in the city she covers (Chicago). How is it working in your city?

Change is always hard, but what's interesting to us is that that bill passed with overwhelming bipartisan support in 2001. But now, attacks are coming from all sides -- people say it robs the schools of resources for art, music and the things that give education its spark. Others say it encourages districts to game the system. Still some say, it's about time that schools were called upon to teach everybody, not just "the best and brightest." We want to know what you say...especially if you have first-hand experience.

So, if you would, drop us a line. What could be more important than education? Yet, it's actually one of the hardest things to cover, I think. You can get so lost in numbers, in theory. It's why we're interested in how the new law has actually changed people's lives (or hasn't.)

And on to a very sensitive subject. Rape.

Our friends over at News & Notes hipped us to a new documentary about black-on-black rape. They knew about our Behind Closed Doors segment and thought it would be a perfect discussion for us (it was). The film, No! The Rape Documentary, was 11 years in the making; it's being seen at festivals. You can get it on DVD.

The filmmaker, Aisha Shahidah Simmons, was able to persuade women, including her own mother, to tell their powerful stories, sometimes in excruciating detail. Although inter-racial rape so often captures the imagination and the headlines -- both the fantasy and reality are a backdrop to so much of the ugliness in our nation's history (slavery, the lynching era...need I say more?) -- these days, let's face it, most rape seems to be intra-racial. That means white-on-white, black-on-black, etc. And there's sometimes an added pressure not to "inform" or betray "the group" to which one belongs; or the spectre of negative stereotypes. That's another, raw conversation.

That's not what we want to talk about (right now).

We're engaged by the question of responsibility. In a number of the stories making recent headlines -- the Duke Rape (that wasn't) case, the Genarlow Wilson story -- the throughline is choices around sexual conduct.

Who is responsible for which choices?

The rape documentary makes the strong argument that ANYTHING other than "YES" is in fact "NO!" In other words, "MAYBE" means no, "I'M NOT SURE" means no....SILENCE means no. I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure the law agrees with that interpretation. But that doesn't mean juries always agree.

So our question: is there ever shared responsibility? What happens when girls/women present a sexually aggressive exterior? Do the rules change?

And NO, we're not talking about wearing a mini-skirt to the mall...with or without tights. We're not talking about kissing a boy and that suggesting you want to have sex. We're talking about the fact that girls are sometimes the pursuers these days...not always the pursued.

Are there new rules for new times? Or, do the old rules apply? We want to know how girls/women and men really feel about the gray areas. Or, is it not gray to you at all?

We think this is grist for another conversation. Just not sure how to have it in a way that's tasteful and respectful...but honest and real.

Thoughts?

It's Michel. I was fried at the end of yesterday. Long week. But ready to "blog it out..."

SPEAKING OF FRIED -- you all had A LOT to say about the Debra Dickerson -- Jasmyne Cannick conversation on Monday about why so many black women are overweight. Dickerson's theory is that the culture kind of supports it; Jasmyne countered that the fried and true foods of the traditional "soul food" diet are often all that's available in many black neighborhoods.

Many of you all agreed with Jasmyne:

Well I can't speak for all african american men but being over weight is not safe for our women and it is not so much the weight that is gain, it is the food...

Another perspective...

I am not African American, but I can totally relate with what Jasmyne Cannick said. As someone with a very low income it is incredibly difficult for me to afford healthy food -- unfortunately, most food that you can buy on a budget is not particularly good for you. Also, I think that serving fried foods and beans with lard and pork and greens is not just an African American thing -- my grandmother is from Kentucky, and one of the "healthy" things she tries to give me is hamburgers with both the buns and patties fried in butter.

OUCH -- love you grandma, but not that much.

But many of you did implicate the culture...in the same way Debra did. Here's an example:

...think the problem lies with how we have gone from a race of people who once valued our sisters as prize possesions [sic] to the now denigrating of their worth. If the hiphop media continues to exploit them, eventually their self esteem and respect is totally lost.

Another...

I totally agree with the author of the article. While it is true that African-American women are built differently from European women, that is by no means an excuse for the rising rates of obesity in our community. We have somehow substituted the word "thick" for the term obsese [sic]. There is no reason that we have 12 year old girls wearing a size 12 in womens...

And yet another...

Could there be any corrolation [sic] to the fact that black women are one of the most underrepresented groups in GYMS. Actually working out, not just walking slow on the treadmill...

OK -- ouch again. And many of you shared some personal experiences about how you felt about your weight and how you feel the society encourages you to feel about your weight:

As an African-American woman with a very petite frame, (a healthy size 0-3), I find that society does condone/encourage obesity in black women. I have often been critized [sic] by black men and black women alike for not being "thick" enough. My culture makes it seem as though I'm not sexy enough...The comedian Monique has a book entitled "Skinny women are evil". If I weren't secure with myself, I would have severe body issues, even though I'm a healthy, physically fit woman.

Wow. I actually met Mo'Nique and asked her about this. Trust me she was joking, but I take your point. I think she thinks that this society devalues large-sized women...and, call me crazy, but do movies and TV really ever depict large-sized women in flattering ways? Aren't they always depicted as "extra" -- big, loud, sex starved?...Especially when they're also of a darker complexion? Or, if they're white, they're often used as the butt of humor -- rude and redneck.

Again, am I crazy? Anyway, that's my take on the thing, but I sure do appreciate having yours.

Have a great weekend...eat your peas. And a shout out to the all the Dads and the granddads who are holding it down.

Happy Father's Day!

Lee here...

We first reported his story back in February. And if you've been following us since our days in Rough Cuts, you might remember how we were convinced that this was right up our alley. (We were brainstorming heavily during those early piloting days -- actually, we still are -- to discover and craft our "voice" in the larger media landscape). It wasn't through the AP Wire, nor did it appear to be major headline news elsewhere...except in Atlanta, of course, where the story originates.

We're all (including you) a part of these infamous e-mail chains where, basically, a friend e-mails a friend, or friends, something interesting -- and sometimes bizarre, making us completely incredulous -- that just doesn't sit quite right.

One day, remind us to tell you about Wendy's e-mails...

Simply put: An e-mail found itself to one of our producers (not me) and it left us wanting to know more...

Fast forward to Monday. We learn of a Georgia judge's decision to void Genarlow's sentence and commute his conviction to a misdemeanor. (By the way, this time it was headline news). Knowing me...or I guess you really don't know me...I thought it would be a good idea to fish in the same pond, so to speak, that made this story first stand out to us. So, I initiated my own personal chain e-mail on the matter to see what my "peoples" were thinking.

One friend, who just happens to do community relations for the Chicago Bulls, wrote back, saying:

I remember being so disturbed about this...When we think about the amount of young Black men who are suffering from this system of the prison industrial complex, false imprisonment, and flat out injustice when people like Paris Hilton...getting headlines for skating the justice system...it just really makes you angry. But I thank God, indeed, that there is still hope for what seems hopeless.

This was before the notice of appeal.

Now my question to you: If Genarlow is released, say, by the end of the summer...what should he expect of post-prison life? Will he ever really be a free man? What's been lost in these 28 months (or gained)? We're talking young adulthood here. Arguably, they're the most formative years of life...re-establishing a place in society, after being locked away, could prove to be just as difficult as adjusting to prison-life, no?

Hmm...There goes an idea for a follow-up.

Your thoughts?

Michel here...just wanted to add a quick thought about yesterday's back of the book segment on black women and obesity. Debra Dickerson's provocative essay in Salon caught our attention. It kinda speaks for itself, but I can't help myself...it's titled, "Healthy, My A__" (fill in the blank).

She argues that part of the reason African American women are struggling with their weight are all the cultural messages telling them it's okay -- the greasy food, the shout-outs from the brothas who want to see some "junk in the trunk."

Now, it seems to me that women all over this country are struggling with weight issues -- whether it's the pressure among Hollywood starlets to be dangerously thin (Hello? Nicole Richie?) or the ballerinas before them, or black and Latina women struggling to keep their weight and blood pressure in check.

We also invited jasmyne Cannick, blogger extraordinaire to give her take. She's trying to lose weight for health reasons.

So, what's your take? Is the culture killing black women by encouraging unhealthy habits? Is the relationship between what's culturally sanctioned/appreciated and what's healthy for you causing you stress?

If you are NOT African American, can you relate?

Please, dish...

As I write, Michel is wrapping up an interview on the enforcement of DUI -- that is, Driving Under the Influence -- laws in America. The discussion, of course, is triggered by controversy surrounding a certain pop culture icon who's been in the news as of late.

...But aside from your personal thoughts on "the life and times" of Paris Hilton, what's your take on penalties for drinking and driving? Too strict, or not strict enough?
How are laws enforced where you live?

And, we hear a lot about celebrity "infractions" on websites like TMZ.com, but with more than a million DUI arrests each year, it's likely that someone you know (if not you, yourself) has had a brush with the law on this very issue.

We're always interested in how people's experiences impact their everyday lives.
So, what about you?...

Ever been arrested on DUI charges? If so, was the punishment significant enough to keep you from repeating the offense. Or, have you ever been affected by someone else's decision to drive under the influence of alcohol?

Talk to us...

Source: Getty Images

When we booked today's show, we really had no idea the negotiations over the immigration bill were going to break down. We were heading down that road anyway...

Wanted to surface the whole debate about "culture" versus economics in the discussion about immigration. One of our regulars, Ruben Navarrette, has been writing that some of the immigration opponents are hiding a cultural argument behind an economic one.

Well, some aren't hiding anything: Heather McDonald, of the Manhattan Institute, has been very clear in her view that many Latino immigrants are not assimilating quickly enough and that there is a social cost to this that cannot be ignored. Provocative to some, inflammatory and divisive to others. We asked her and Linda Chavez -- a fellow conservative who has been writing about this issue for years, but with a different perspective -- to take this on.

I think it was a lively conversation, but now I'm wondering how this impasse will be resolved. The last question I asked each of our guests was exactly that: what should happen next?

So how about you? How do you think the impasse can be resolved?

The Wash Post wrote a stinging piece today arguing that the breakdown of immigration reform is a real failure of leadership...that Washington can't get any of the big stuff done. Do you agree?

What else am I looking for? A personal story...

I read a piece in Latina magazine a while back -- a first-person account of one woman's illegal crossing of the border. She wrote (anonymously) about why she did it, and what her life is now.

This fascinates me.

What is it like to be the focus of so much public discussion? Does she listen to the news and feel like a target? Does she ever feel guilty for breaking the law, however justified she may feel in doing it? Has it been worth it? This is a story I'd like to tell...and hear.

Still interested also in the experience of the border guards, especially those with an immigrant background. What's it like? And also -- I know this might be a stretch -- I wonder if someone has a parent who came here illegally, but who now opposes illegal immigration.

Just want to tell the full range of stories. Send up a flare if you have one...

This show was a crazy salad today. It all worked and it all made sense, but the separate ingredients -- your lettuce, your croutons, your ranch dressing -- well, they all came from different food groups. We had some politics, some international chinwag...dished about gas prices.

But I want to talk about the presidential debates. Tell the truth. Are you watching them? In the spirit of full disclosure, I must confess I (along with Barbershop regular, syndicated columnist Ruben Navarrette and columnist Dwayne Wickham, also a syndicated columnist) am one of the questioners for a debate to be held June 26 and aired live on PBS, among the Democratic Presidential candidates. Tavis Smiley (former NPR host!), of PBS and PRI's The Tavis Smiley Show put it all together; he's the moderator. Our goal is to raise issues of particular concern to the African American community. The Republicans have accepted a similar invitation; their debate is in September. Don't know if I'm involved in that one (not that I'm lobbying).

Univision has also issued an invitation to the candidates to participate in a Spanish language debate in September, which got us to thinking...what's up with all these debates? Is anybody even paying attention?

We were delighted to have Dallas Morning News writer Macarena Hernandez join us. She just stopped writing her opinion column and is doing news writing again. We also hope to have her on next week for a piece she did about...no, I'm not going to tell you...you'll just have to listen. And Marvin Kalb, of CBS and NBC fame (he was a longtime Meet the Press moderator), now at Harvard's Shorenstein Center, joined us for his long view. He has an interesting proposal for how the debates should be conducted once the nominees are picked.

Boy, that seems a looong way away...

Have any of the debate formats made more sense than others to you? Any topics you think need to be discussed...that haven't been? Let me know...

I can tell this story on myself, I hope?

Years ago, when I worked at the Washington Bureau of the Wall Street Journal (I was 16, I swear!), I was one of the political reporters there. My boss was kind enough to send me to New York to do a major profile of then Gov. Mario Cuomo, who was running for a third term. I say "kind enough" because my family is from New York and he knew that I would try to squeeze in some family time. Which I am sure I did do.

Anyway, I trucked on up to Albany and the Governor let me tag along with him for his appointments...the usual thing. There was a ride in the state helicopter, too, because he had to get to some event in Manhattan, so I was invited along. I thought this very cool because it meant I had something like an hour to talk to him uninterrupted...that is, I thought it was cool until I realized the hum of the engine made it impossible to use my tape recorder, because it picked up all the ambient noise and buried the sound of his voice. So there was to do but start taking notes, which was fine except that I was also trying to maintain eye contact (which any polite person would try to do in a conversation.) So I'm looking up, looking down. Looking up, looking down. On a helicopter. Do you know where I'm going with this? It was all of 15 minutes before I realized that I was about to throw up.

And (as I reminded him yesterday when we talked for today's show) he was VERY nice about it...even poured me a glass of New York's finest ginger ale. The interview was a total bust. But...I got my first and last ride in the state helicopter, some ginger ale, and a story to tell everybody about.

That's not the reason we wanted to talk to him yesterday, really...

We wanted to talk to the former Governor because we've been talking a lot about crime this week, and I remembered that he was the head of the New York state government during the crack epidemic. He used to brag, I thought, about how many prison cells he had built during his tenure, so I wanted to ask him what message leaders should be sending about crime now. Well, he didn't remember it as bragging, as I found out.

This was a Wisdom Watch conversation, where we talk to folks who are no longer actively in positions of responsibility or authority, but who might still have something interesting to say.

Who else would you like to hear from? Anybody have Billy Graham's cell phone number?

Anyway, the former Governor also gave us another story idea, which we are working on for today's show...about the presidential debates. He thinks the debates, so far, are a waste of time...superficial.

So today, we're debating the debates...

Let us know what you think...curious if you've watched any of them.

Remember the other day when I was telling you about trying to have a conversation with members of an Iraqi heavy metal band on a cell phone in Syria?

I wasn't kidding.

That interview ran today. It was the bookend to a bigger discussion about what, if anything, the U.S. owes Iraqis who leave their country and may want to come live here. We wanted to know how decisions are made about when to open the doors to people displaced by a conflict in which the U.S. has played a key role.

What we learned? Case by case...

Our guide was Andrew Schoenholtz, who studies this stuff at Georgetown University. BUT, we also wanted to hear from someone who works in the Iraqi community and works with Iraqi refugees when they arrive here. So, we thought about Detroit, which has, arguably, the highest population of Iraqis living in America. Our guest's take on the whole thing -- just who should come -- was one I do not think you are hearing elsewhere.

One other thing: the numbers. A lot of numbers were thrown around in the show today about exactly how many Iraqis have been displaced by the fighting. We decided to use the numbers reported by the UN High Commission on Refugees. They report a least 1.5 million as of October 2006. You can read their information here.

But others have different figures. One of the people we interviewed today, a journalist who worked on a documentary about the Iraqi band we profiled, puts the figure much higher, at about 2 million, based on his reporting and his sources. I didn't think it my role to correct him in the course of the interview; I'm just telling you why you heard conflicting data. And...it makes sense. The UN's figures date from last October; it's not unreasonable to believe that the numbers are higher since then...

Late posting this. But I have a reason: Sick kid, high fever.

Today's show -- ok, it was Monday's -- If you've read the international news at all over the last decade, if you saw the movie Blood Diamond, if you heard Kanye's "Diamonds from Sierra Leone" (if not, you can watch the music video here), then you know what we're talking about.

Former Liberian President Charles Taylor's trial for war crimes started at the Hague yesterday. We were able to speak with the current Special Prosecutor Stephan Rapp briefly before the phone line (from the Netherlands!) deteriorated too badly to continue with the interview...

We also spoke with the previous prosecutor who brought the indictment against Taylor forward as well as Emira Woods, an Africa policy expert who is Liberian. Taylor is accused of being the mastermind behind some of the most gruesome behavior we have seen in recent years -- recruiting soldiers as young as 8-years-old, keeping them high on drugs, then teaching them to rape, chop off limbs and burn people to death -- all for the purpose of fomenting civil war in Sierra Leone, so he could control their natural resources, as well as those of his own country, Liberia.

Taylor refused to attend the first day of trial; he says the court won't be fair to him, and in any case he cannot be tried to any of which he is accused.

Africa watchers say this is an important test of whether these notorious "strongmen" can be brought to account before international law. We hope to be able to able to follow this story...the trial could last as long as 18 months.

...And how to introduce the next subject, I'm not exactly sure...

Thinking about Charles Taylor and his alleged crimes made us wonder how one can recover from the kind of torture and trauma Taylor is accused of visiting upon people. So, we talked to Dr. Karen Hanscom, a psychologist in Baltimore whose practice consists of helping torture victims. I thought this might be a depressing conversation, but it most definitely was not. (See if you agree with me). Joyful is slightly too strong a word, but only just. It was interesting to me to know that humans can recover from a very great deal

...So I wonder if there is something you were able to overcome that you thought you'd never be able to live with, or master, or put behind you?

And finally...the commute from hell.
...How long is your commute? Tell the truth...

This is going to be short because: a) I have to dash and b) I am fried. I had something like six interviews today. Remind me to tell you sometime what it's like to try to do a group interview over a cell phone with members of a heavy metal band in Syria.

But enough of my problems.

I think all of our pieces today are ones that might provoke some shouting over the dinner table. Our lead -- on the whole question of whether education or family ties should count more in setting immigration policy -- is one I bet even some family members might disagree about.

Where are you on this?

Truly one can see merit to both sides of the argument, and I think both of our guests -- both from immigrant families, both with an argument to make, and a personal history to animate that opinion -- clearly showed that even similar history doesn't lead to identical opinion.

The story of the teens who whose homes were raided by immigration authorities...

Now, before you hit the button on your angry letter...I know we did not have the immigration authorities in the piece except for their response to a New York Times reporter. I'd like to hear from ICE in a separate segment at some point soon. But for now, our focus was simple: what's it like? As policymakers debate the future picture, they're the guys on the ground carrying out the present policy. We've been hearing a lot about these immigrations raids, I wanted to know what it was like to be the target of one of the raids. I'd also like to know what it's like to carry one out (full disclosure...I have six police officers -- current or retired -- in my extended family).

Finally, the story about the Hawaiian burial ground and whether human remains can ever be moved to make way for development... Not to beat myself up -- but to beat myself up -- I'm still not sure we got to the crux of the matter (...or maybe we didn't have enough diversity of opinion among the guests). Here???s a news flash: we don't always know exactly where all of our guests are going to come out on an issue -- it really is a process of discovery. (Take the Terrence Howard interview, for instance.)

But I still don't think we got to the heart of the issue, which is, what is to be done when everyone doesn't share the same belief system about the remains? Everyone does not imbue remains with the same sense of sanctity. And Hawaii is not just, well, Hawaiian anymore...so, whose rules rule?

I'd like to tackle this again. Any takers? Ideas?

I guess this wasn't so short...I guess I got a second wind...

See you Monday.