SCOTT SIMON: From NPR News, this is a special report, live coverage of the first
presidential debate between Vice President Al Gore and the governor of
Texas,
George W. Bush. I'm Scott Simon in Washington, DC.
It's about 15 seconds after 9:00 on the East Coast. Mr. Bush, Mr. Gore at
the
Clark Athletic Center on the campus of the University of Massachusetts, a
commuter school overlooking Boston Harbor. NPR's Anthony Brooks is in the
same hall.
Anthony, who's in the audience tonight?
ANTHONY BROOKS reporting:
Scott, there's an audience here of some 900 people and just a few minutes
ago
Tipper Gore, wife of Al Gore, and their three daughters arrived, as did
Laura
Bush, the wife of George W. Bush. Of the rest of the audience, about a
third
are Republicans, here as guests of the Bush campaign, a third are Democrats,
guests of the Gore campaign. And there are about 100 students who were
selected by lottery. Not here is Green Party candidate Ralph Nader who
tried
to enter the hall just a short while ago, but he was turned away.
SIMON: OK. Thank you very much. NPR's Anthony Brooks in Boston.
The election, of course, is five weeks away. Tonight, voters will get their
first, best chance to hear at length from the two major party candidates.
The
format of each of the three presidential debates are different this season.
Tonight, each candidate is standing behind a lectern. The moderator of
tonight's debate is our old friend Jim Lehrer, who is executive editor and
anchor of "The NewsHour" on public television.
Now we're going to go up to Boston. The candidates should be approaching
their respective rostrums in just a moment. And here is Jim Lehrer in
Boston.
Mr. JIM LEHRER (Moderator): Good evening from the Clark Athletic Center at
the University of Massachusetts in Boston. I'm Jim Lehrer of "The NewsHour"
on PBS, and I welcome you to the first of three, 90-minute debates between
the
Democratic candidate for president, Vice President Al Gore, and the
Republican
candidate, Governor George W. Bush of Texas. The debates are sponsored by
the Commission on Presidential Debates, and they will be conducted within
formats and rules agreed to by the commission and the two campaigns.
Tonight we'll have the candidates at podiums. No answer to a question can
exceed two minutes. Rebuttals are limited to one minute. But as moderator,
I
have the option to follow up and to extend any particular give-and-take
another three and a half minutes, but even then, no single answer can exceed
two minutes. The candidates, under their rules, may not question each other
directly. There will be no opening statements, but each candidate may have
up
to two minutes for a closing statement. The questions and the subjects were
chosen by me alone. I have told no one from the two campaigns or the
commission or anyone else involved what they are.
There's a small audience in the hall tonight. They are not here to
participate, only to listen. I have asked and they have agreed to remain
silent for the next 90 minutes, except for right now when they will applaud
as
we welcome the two candidates, Governor Bush and Vice President Gore.
(Soundbite of applause)
Mr. LEHRER: And now the first question, as determined by a flip of a coin,
it goes to Vice President Gore.
Vice President Gore, you have questioned whether Governor Bush has the
experience to be president of the United States. What exactly do you mean?
Vice President AL GORE (Democratic Presidential Candidate): Well, Jim,
first
of all, I would like to thank the sponsors of this debate and the people of
Boston for hosting the debate. I'd like to thank Governor Bush for
participating. And I'd like to say I'm happy to be here with Tipper and our
family.
I have actually not questioned Governor Bush's experience. I have
questioned
his proposals, and here's why. I think this is a very important moment for
our country. We have achieved extraordinary prosperity. And in this
election, America has to make an important choice: Will we use our
prosperity
to enrich not just the few, but all of our families? I believe we have to
make the right and responsible choices.
If I'm entrusted with the presidency, here are the choices that I will make.
I'll balance the budget every year. I will pay down the national debt. I
will put Medicare and Social Security in a lockbox and protect them. And I
will cut taxes for middle-class families. I believe it's important to
resist
the temptation to squander our surplus. If we make the right choices, we
can
have a prosperity that endures and enriches all of our people.
If I'm entrusted with the presidency, I will help parents and strengthen
families because, you know, if we have prosperity that grows and grows, we
still won't be successful unless we strengthen families by, for example,
ensuring that children can always go to schools that are safe, by giving
parents the tools to protect their children against cultural pollution. I
will make sure that we invest in our country and our families, and I mean
investing in education, health care, the environment and--and middle-class
tax
cuts and retirement security. That's my agenda, and that's why I think that
it's not just a question of experience.
Mr. LEHRER: Governor Bush, one-minute rebuttal?
Governor GEORGE W. BUSH (Republican Presidential Candidate): Well, we do
come
from different places. I come from west Texas. I've been a governor. A
governor is the chief executive officer and learns how to set agendas. And
I
think you're going to find the difference reflected in our budgets. I want
to
take one-half of the surplus and dedicate it to Social Security, one-quarter
of the surplus for important projects, and I want to send one-quarter of the
surplus back to the people who pay the bills.
I want everybody who pays taxes to have their tax rates cut, and that stands
in contrast to my worthy opponent's plan, which will increase the size of
government dramatically. His plan is three times larger than President
Clinton's proposed plan eight years ago. It's a plan that will have 200 new
programs as well--or expanded programs. It will create 20,000 new
bureaucrats. In other words, it empowers Washington. And tonight you're
going to hear that my passion and my vision is to empower Americans to be
able
to make decisions for themselves in their own lives.
Mr. LEHRER: So I take it, by your answer then, Mr. Vice President, that in
your--an interview recently with The New York Times, when you said that you
questioned whether or not vice president--or Governor Bush was experienced
enough to be president, you were talking about strictly policy differences?
Vice Pres. GORE: Yes, Jim. I said that his tax-cut plan, for example,
raises
the question of whether it's the right choice for the country, and let me
give you an example of what I mean. Under Governor Bush's tax-cut proposal,
he would spend more money on tax cuts for the wealthiest 1 percent than all
of
the new spending that he proposes for education, health care, prescription
drugs and national defense all combined. Now I think those are the wrong
priorities.
Now under my proposal, for every dollar that I propose in spending for
things
like education and health care, I will put another dollar into middle-class
tax cuts, and for every dollar that I spend in those two categories, I'll
put
$2 toward paying down the national debt. I think it's very important to
keep
the debt going down and completely eliminate it. And I also think it's very
important to go to the next stage of welfare reform. Our country has cut
the
welfare rolls in half. I fought hard, from my days in the Senate and as
vice
president, to cut the welfare rolls. And we've moved millions of people in
America into good jobs. But it's now time for the next stage of welfare
reform and include fathers and not only mothers.
Mr. LEHRER: We're going to get to a lot of those i--yes, go ahead,
Governor.
Gov. BUSH: Well, let me just say that, obviously tonight, we're going to
hear
some phony numbers about what I think and what we ought to do. People need
to
know that over the next 10 years there's going to be $25 trillion of revenue
that comes into our Treasury. We anticipate spending $21 trillion. And my
plan says: Why don't we pass $1.3 trillion of that back to the people who
pay
the bills? Surely we can afford 5 percent of the $25 trillion that are
coming
into the Treasury to the hardworking people who pay the bills.
There's a difference of opinion. My opponent thinks the government--the
surplus is the government's money. That's not what I think. I think it's
the
hardworking people in America's money, and I want to share some of that
money
with you, so you've got more money to build and save and dream for your
families. It's a difference of opinion. It's the difference between
government making decisions for you and you getting more of your money to
make
decisions for yourself.
Vice Pres. GORE: Jim.
Mr. LEHRER: So when you--let me just follow up. One quick question: When
you hear Vice President Gore question your experience, do you read it the
same
way, that he's talking about policy differences only?
Gov. BUSH: Yes. I take him for his word. I mean, I--look, I fully
recognize I'm not of Washington. I'm from Texas. And he's got a lot of
experience, but so do I. And I've been the chief executive officer of the
second biggest state in the Union. I've had a proud record of working with
both Republicans and Democrats, which is what our nation needs. We need
somebody who can come up to Washington and say, `Look, let's forget all the
politics and all the finger-pointing and get some positive things done on
Medicare and prescription drugs and Social Security,' and so I take him for
his word.
Vice Pres. GORE: Jim, if I could just respond...
Mr. LEHRER: Just quickly. We need to move on. Yes, sir.
Vice Pres. GORE: I know that. The governor used the phrase `phony
numbers.'
But if you look at the plan and add the numbers up, these numbers are
correct.
He spends more money for tax cuts for the wealthiest 1 percent than all of
his
new spending proposals for health care, prescription drugs, education and
national defense all combined. I agree that the surplus is the American
people's money. It's your money. That's why I don't think we should give
nearly half of it to the wealthiest 1 percent because the other 99 percent
have had an awful lot to do with building this surplus and our prosperity.
Mr. LEHRER: All right. All right. Three-and-a-half minutes is up. New
question.
Gov. BUSH: I hope that's about wealthy people.
Mr. LEHRER: Governor Bush, you have questioned--this is a companion
question
to the question I asked Vice President Gore.
Gov. BUSH: OK.
Mr. LEHRER: You have questioned whether Vice President Gore has
demonstrated
the leadership qualities necessary to be president of the United States.
What
do you mean by that?
Gov. BUSH: Well, here's what I've said, Jim. I've said that eight years
ago
they campaigned on prescription drugs for seniors, and four years ago they
campaigned on getting prescription drugs for seniors. And now they're
campaigning on getting prescription drugs for seniors. It seems like they
can't get it done. Now they may blame other folks, but it's time to get
somebody in Washington who's is going to work with both Republicans and
Democrats to get some positive things done when it comes to our seniors.
And so what I've said is there's been some missed opportunities. They've
had
a chance. They've had a chance to form consensus. I've got a plan on
Medicare, for example, that's a two-stage plan that says we're going to have
immediate help for seniors and what I call immediate helping hand, a $48
billion program. But I also want to say to seniors if you're happy with
Medicare the way it is, fine, you can stay in the program, but we're going
to
give you additional choices, just like they give federal employees in the
federal employee health plan. Federal employees have got a variety of
choices
from which to choose; so should seniors.
And my point has been as opposed to politicizing an issue like Medicare--in
other words, holding it up as an issue, hoping somebody bites and then try
to
clobber them over the head with it for political purposes--this year, in the
year 2000, it's time to say, `Let's get it done once and for all.' And
that's
what I have been critical about the administration for; same with Social
Security.
I think there was a good opportunity to bring Republicans and Democrats
together to reform the Social Security system so that seniors will never go
without, those on Social Security today will have their promise made, but
also
to give younger workers the option at their choice of being able to manage
some of their own money in the private sectors to make sure there's a Social
Security system around tomorrow. There's a lot of young workers at our
rallies we go to that when they hear I'm going to trust them at their option
to be able to manage under certain guidelines some of their own money to get
a
better rate of return, so that they'll have a retirement plan in the future,
they begin to nod their heads. And they want a different attitude in
Washington.
Mr. LEHRER: One-minute rebuttal, Vice President Gore.
Vice Pres. GORE: Well, Jim, under my plan all seniors will get prescription
drugs under Medicare. The governor has described Medicare as a government
HMO. It's not. And let me explain the difference. Under the Medicare
prescription drug proposal I'm making, here's how it works. You go to your
own doctor, and your doctor chooses your prescription, and no HMO or
insurance
company can take those choices away from you. Then you go to your own
pharmacy, you fill the prescription and Medicare pays half the cost. If
you're in a very poor family or if you have very high costs, Medicare will
pay
all the costs--a $25 premium and much better benefits than you could
possibly
find in the private sector.
Now here's the contrast: 95 percent of all seniors would get no help
whatsoever under my opponent's plan for the first four or five years. Now
one
thing I don't understand, Jim, is why is it that the wealthiest 1 percent
get
their tax cuts the first year, but 95 percent of seniors have to wait four
to
five years before they get a single penny?
Mr. LEHRER: Governor?
Gov. BUSH: I guess my answer to that is the man's running on `Mediscare,'
trying to frighten people in the voting booth. It's just not the way I
think,
and that's just not my intentions and it's not my plan. I want all seniors
to
have prescription drugs in Medicare. We need to reform Medicare. There has
been an opportunity to do so, but this administration has failed to do it.
And so seniors are going to have not only a Medicare plan, where the poor
seniors will have their prescription drugs paid for, but there will be a
variety of options. The current system today has meant a lot for a lot of
seniors, and I really appreciate the intentions of the current system. And
as
I mentioned, if you're happy with the system, you can stay in it.
But there's a lot of procedures that have not kept up in Medicare with the
current times. There's no prescription drug benefits. There's no drug
therapies. There's no preventing medicines. There's no vision care. I
mean,
we need to have a modern system to help seniors. And the idea of supporting
a
federally controlled, 132,000-page document bureaucracy as being a
compassionate way for seniors is--and the only compassionate source of care
for seniors is just not my vision.
I believe we ought to give seniors more options. I believe we ought to make
the system work better. But I know this. I know it's going to require a
different kind of leader to go to Washington to say to both Republicans and
Democrats, `Let's come together.' You've had your chance, Vice President.
You've been there for eight years, and nothing has been done. And my point
is, is that my plan not only trusts seniors with options, my plan sets aside
$3.4 trillion for Medicare over the next 10 years. My plan also says it's
going to require a new approach in Washington, DC. It's going to require
somebody who can work across the partisan divide.
Vice Pres. GORE: If I could respond to that, Jim, under my plan, I will put
Medicare in an ironclad lockbox and prevent the money from being used for
anything other than Medicare. The governor has declined to endorse that
idea,
even though the Republican as well as Democratic leaders of Congress have
endorsed it. I'd be interested, if he would this evening say that he would
put Medicare in a lockbox.
I don't think he will because under his plan, if you work out the numbers,
$100 billion comes out of Medicare just for the wealthiest 1 percent in the
tax cut. Now here is the difference: Some people who say the word `reform'
actually mean `cuts.' Under the governor's plan, if you kept the same
fee-for-service that you have now under Medicare, your premiums would go up
by
between 18 percent and 47 percent, and that's the study of the congressional
plan that he's modeled his proposal on by the Medicare actuaries.
Let me just give you one quick example. There's a man here tonight named
George McKinney from Milwaukee. He's 70 years old. He has high blood
pressure. His wife has heart trouble. They have income of $25,000 a year.
They cannot pay for their prescription drugs, and so they're some of the
ones
that go to Canada regularly in order to get their prescription drugs. Under
my plan, half of their costs would be paid right away. Under Governor
Bush's
plan, they would get not one penny for four to five years, and then they
would
be forced to go into an HMO or to an insurance company and ask them for
coverage, but there'd be no limit on the premiums or the deductibles or any
of
the terms and conditions.
Gov. BUSH: I cannot let this go by, the old-style Washington politic of,
`We're going to scare you in the voting booth.' Under my plan, the man gets
immediate help with prescription drugs. It's called immediate helping hand.
Instead of squabbling and finger-pointing, he gets immediate help. Let me
say
something. And I understand...
Mr. LEHRER: All right. Excuse me, gentlemen.
Vice Pres. GORE: Jim, can I...
Mr. LEHRER: Our three and a half minutes up, but we'll finish that.
Just...
Vice Pres. GORE: Can I make one other point?
Mr. LEHRER: Yeah.
Gov. BUSH: Wait a minute.
Vice Pres. GORE: They get $25,000 a year income. That makes them
ineligible.
Gov. BUSH: Look, this is a man, he's got great numbers. He talks about
numbers. I'm beginning to think not only did he invent the Internet, but he
invented the calculator. It's fuzzy math. It's the scaring, trying to
scare
people in the voting booth. Under my tax plan, that he continues to
criticize, I set a third--you know, the federal government should take more
than a third of anybody's check. But I also dropped the bottom rate from 15
percent to 10 percent because, by far, the vast majority of the help goes to
people at the bottom end of the economic ladder. If you're a family of four
in Massachusetts making $50,000, you get a 50 percent cut in the federal
income taxes you pay. It's from $4,000 to about $2,000. Now the difference
in our plans is I want that $2,000 to go to you.
Mr. LEHRER: All right. Let me--hold on.
Gov. BUSH: And the vice president would like to be spending the $2,000 on
your behalf.
Mr. LEHRER: One quick thing. Gentlemen, these are your rules. I'm doing
my
best. We're way over the three and a half. I have no problems with it, but
we want--do you want to have a quick response, and we'll move on? We're
already almost to five minutes on this, all right?
Vice Pres. GORE: Yeah. I mean, it's just clear you can go to the Web site
and look, if you make more than $25,000 a year, you don't get a penny of
help
under the Bush prescription drug proposal for at least four or five years
and
then you're pushed into a Medicare--into an HMO or an insurance company
plan.
And there's no limit on the premiums or the deductibles or any of the
conditions, and the insurance companies say it won't work and they won't
offer
these plans.
Mr. LEHRER: Let me ask you both this, and we'll move on on this subject:
As
a practical matter, both of you want to bring prescription drugs to seniors,
correct?
Gov. BUSH: Correct.
Mr. LEHRER: All right.
Vice Pres. GORE: Correct, but the difference is...
Mr. LEHRER: Yeah, I know. All right.
Vice Pres. GORE: ...I want to bring it to 100 percent and he brings it only
to 5 percent.
Mr. LEHRER: All right. All right. All right.
Gov. BUSH: That's just totally false. Wait a minute.
Mr. LEHRER: What difference does it make how--all right.
Gov. BUSH: It's just totally false for him to stand up here and say that.
Mr. LEHRER: All right.
Gov. BUSH: Let me make sure the seniors hear me loud and clear. They've
had
their chance to get something done. I'm going to work with both Republicans
and Democrats to reform the system. All seniors will be covered. All poor
seniors will have their prescription drugs paid for. In the meantime, we're
going to have a plan to help poor seniors. And in the meantime could be one
year or two years. I don't know...
Vice Pres. GORE: OK. Look, let me call your attention to the key word
there. He said all `poor' seniors.
Gov. BUSH: No. Wait a minute. All seniors are covered under prescription
drugs in my plan.
Vice Pres. GORE: In the first year? In the first year?
Gov. BUSH: If we can get it done in the first year, you bet. Yours is
phased
in in eight years.
Vice Pres. GORE: No, no, no. No, no, it's a two-phase plan, Jim. And for
the first four years--it takes a year to pass it, and for the first four
years, only the poor are covered. Middle-class seniors, like George
McKinney
and his wife, are not covered for four to five years.
Mr. LEHRER: I've got an idea.
Vice Pres. GORE: OK.
Mr. LEHRER: If you have any more to say about this, you can say it in your
closing statements.
Vice Pres. GORE: OK.
Mr. LEHRER: We'll move on, OK? New question. Vice President Gore, how
would
you contrast your approach to preventing future oil price and supply
problems
like we have now to the approach of Governor Bush?
Vice Pres. GORE: Excellent question, and here's the simple difference. My
plan has not only a short-term component but also a long-term component, and
it focuses not only on increasing the supply, which I think we have to do,
but
also on working on the consumption side.
Now in the short term, we have to free ourselves from the domination of the
big oil companies that have the ability to manipulate the price; from OPEC,
when they want to raise the price. And in the long term we have to give new
incentives for the development of domestic resources, like deep gas in the
western Gulf, like stripper wells for oil, but also renewable sources of
energy and domestic sources that are cleaner and better. And I'm proposing
a
plan that will give tax credits and tax incentives for the rapid development
of new kinds of cars and trucks and buses and factories and boilers and
furnaces that don't have as much pollution, that don't burn as much energy
and
that help us get out on the cutting edge of the new technologies that will
create millions of new jobs because when we sell these new products here,
we'll then be able to sell them overseas, and there's a ravenous demand for
them overseas.
Now another big difference is Governor Bush is proposing to open up some of
our most precious environmental treasures, like the Arctic National Wildlife
Refuge, to the big oil companies to go in and start producing oil there. I
think that is the wrong choice. It would only give us a few months' worth
of
oil, and the oil wouldn't start flowing for many years into the future. And
I
don't think it's a fair price to pay to destroy precious parts of America's
environment. We have to bet on the future and move beyond the current
technologies to have a whole new generation of more efficient, cleaner
energy
technologies.
Mr. LEHRER: Governor Bush, one minute.
Gov. BUSH: Well, it's an issue I know a lot about. I was a `small' oil
person for a while in west Texas. This is an administration that's had no
plan, and all of a sudden the results of having no plan have caught up with
America. First and foremost, we've got to make sure we fully fund LIHEAP,
which is a way to help low-income folks, particularly here in the East, pay
for their high fuel bills. Secondly, we need an active exploration program
in
American. The only way to become less dependent on foreign sources of crude
oil is to explore at home.
And you bet I want to open up a small part of a part of Alaska because when
that field is on line, it will produce a million barrels a day. Today we
import a million barrels from Saddam Hussein. I would rather that a million
come from our own hemisphere, our own country, as opposed from Saddam
Hussein.
I want to build more pipelines to move natural gas throughout this
hemisphere.
I want to develop the coal resources in America and have clean coal
technologies. We've got abundant supplies of energy here in America, and we
better get after it and better start exploring it. Otherwise we're going to
be in deep trouble in the future because of our dependency upon foreign
sources of crude.
Mr. LEHRER: So if somebody is watching tonight and listening to what the
two
of just said, is it fair to say, `OK, the differences between Vice President
Gore and George W. Bush--Governor Bush are the following: You are for doing
something on the consumption end; you're for doing something on the
production
and generally...'
Vice Pres. GORE: Let me clarify. I'm for doing something both on the
supply
side and production side and on the consumption side. And let me say that I
found one thing in Governor Bush's answer that we certainly agree on, and
that's the low-income heating assistance program. And I commend you for
supporting that. I worked to get $400 million just a couple of weeks ago
and
to establish a permanent home heating oil reserve here in the Northeast.
Now as for the proposals that I've worked for, for renewables and
conservation
and efficiency and the new technologies, the fact is for the last few years
in
the Congress we faced a lot of opposition to them. They've only approved
about 10 percent of the agenda that I've helped to send up there. And I
think
that we need to get serious about this energy crisis both in the Congress
and
in the White House. And if you entrust me with the presidency, I will
tackle
this problem and focus on new technologies that will make us less dependent
on
big oil or foreign oil.
Mr. LEHRER: How would you draw the difference, Governor?
Gov. BUSH: Well, I would first say that he should have been tackling it for
the last seven years. And secondly, the difference is, is that we need to
explore at home. And the vice president doesn't believe in exploration, for
example, in Alaska. There's a lot of shut-in gas that we need to be moving
out of Alaska by pipeline. There's an interesting issue up in the Northwest
as well, and that is whether or not remove dams that produce hydroelectric
energy. I'm against removing dams in the Northwest. I don't know where the
vice president stands. But that's a renewable source of energy we need to
keep in line.
I was in coal country yesterday in West Virginia. There's an abundant
supply
of coal in America. I know we can do a better job of clean coal
technologies.
I'm going to ask the Congress for $2 billion to make sure that we have the
cleanest coal technologies in the world. My answer to you is, is that in
the
short term, we need to get after it here in America. We need to explore our
resources, and we need to develop our reservoirs of domestic production. We
also need to have a hemispheric energy policy where Canada and Mexico and
the
United States come together.
I brought this up recently with Vicente Fox, who's the newly elected
president. He's a man I know from Mexico. And I talked about how best to
be
able to expedite the exploration of natural gas in Mexico and transport it
up
to the United States so we become less dependent on foreign sources of crude
oil. This is a major problem facing America. The administration did not
deal
with it. It's time for a new administration to deal with the energy
problem.
Vice Pres. GORE: If I--just briefly, Jim.
Mr. LEHRER: Quick.
Vice Pres. GORE: I know. I found a couple of other things that we agree
on,
and we may not find that many this evening so I wanted to emphasis them. I
strongly support new investments in clean coal technology. I made a
proposal
three months ago on this. And also domestic exploration, yes. But not in
the
environmental treasures of our country. We don't have to do that. That's
the
wrong choice. I know the oil companies have been itching to do that, but it
is not the right thing for the future.
Gov. BUSH: No, it's the right thing for the consumers. Less dependency
upon
foreign sources of crude is good for consumers. And we can do so in an
environmentally friendly way.
Vice Pres. GORE: Well, can I have the last word on this? There's a...
Mr. LEHRER: New question.
Gov. BUSH: Of course.
Vice Pres. GORE: OK. Go ahead.
Mr. LEHRER: New question. New subject.
Vice Pres. GORE: All right.
Mr. LEHRER: Governor Bush, if elected president, would you try to overturn
the FDA's approval last week of the abortion pill, RU-486?
Gov. BUSH: I don't think a president can do that. I was disappointed in
the
ruling because I think abortions ought to be more rare in America. And I'm
worried that that pill will create more abortion, will cause more people to
have abortions. This is a very important topic and it's a very sensitive
topic, 'cause a lot of good people disagree on the issue. I think what the
next president ought to do is to promote a cultural life in America, is the
life of the elderly, and life of those living all across country, life of
the
unborn. As a matter of fact, I think a noble goal for this country is that
every child born and unborn ought to be protected in law and welcomed into
life. But I know we got to change a lot of minds before we get there in
America. What I do believe is we can find good, common ground on issues
like
parental notification or parental consent.
And I know we need to ban partial-birth abortions. This is a place where my
opponent and I have strong disagreements. That I believe banning
partial-birth abortion would be a positive step toward reducing the number
of
abortions in America. This is an issue that's going to require a new
attitude. We've been battling over abortions for a long period of time.
Surely this nation can come together to promote the value of life. Surely
we
can fight off these laws that will encourage doctors to--to allow doctors to
take the lives of our seniors. Surely we can work together to create a
cultural life so some of these youngsters who feel like they take a
neighbor's
life with a gun will understand that that's not the way America's meant to
be.
And surely we can find common ground to reduce the number of abortions in
America.
As to the drug itself, I mentioned I was disappointed. I hope the FDA took
it's time to make sure that American women will be safe who use this drug.
Mr. LEHRER: Vice President Gore.
Vice Pres. GORE: Well, Jim, the FDA took 12 years and I do support that
decision. They determined it was medically safe for the women who use that
drug. Now this is, indeed, a very important issue.
First of all, on the issue of partial-birth, or so-called late-term
abortion,
I would sign a law banning that procedure provided that doctors have the
ability to save a woman's life or to act if her health is severely at risk,
and that's not the main issue. The main issue is whether or not the Roe v.
Wade decision's gonna be overturned. I support a woman's right to choose.
My
opponent does not. It is important because the next president is going to
appoint three, maybe even four justices of the Supreme Court, and Governor
Bush has declared to the anti-choice groups that he will appointed justices
in
the mold of Scalia and Clarence Thomas who are known for being the most
vigorous opponents of a woman's right to choose.
Here's the difference: He trusts the government to order a woman to do what
it thinks she ought to do. I trust women to make the decisions that effect
their lives, their destinies and their bodies. And I think a woman's right
to
choose ought to be protected and defended.
Mr. LEHRER: Governor, we'll go to the Supreme Court question in a moment.
But make sure I understand your position on RU-486. If you're elected
president, will you not throw appointments to the FDA, you won't support
legislation to overturn this?
Gov. BUSH: I don't think a president can unilaterally overturn it. I think
the FDA's made its decision.
Mr. LEHRER: But that means you wouldn't throw appointments to the FDA and
ask
them to reappraise that...
Gov. BUSH: No. I think once the decision's made, it's been made, unless
it's proven to be unsafe to women.
Mr. LEHRER: Right.
Vice Pres. GORE: Well, Jim, you know, the question you asked, if I heard
you
correctly, was would he support legislation to overturn it? And if--I heard
the statement day before yesterday, he said he would order his FDA appointee
to review the decision. Now that sounds to me a little bit different. And
I
just think that we ought to support the decision.
Gov. BUSH: I said that I would make sure that women would be safe who used
the drug.
Mr. LEHRER: All right. On the Supreme Court question, should a voter
assume--you're pro-life. You've just stated your position.
Gov. BUSH: I am pro-life.
Mr. LEHRER: Should a voter assume that all judicial appointments you make
to
the Supreme Court or any other court, federal court, will also be pro-life?
Gov. BUSH: The voters should assume that I have no litmus test on that
issue
or any other issue. But the voters will know I'll put competent judges on
the
bench, people who will strictly interpret the Constitution and will not use
the bench to write social policy. And that's going to be a big difference
between my opponent and me. I believe that the judges ought not to take the
place of the legislative branch of government, that they're appointed for
life
and that they ought to look at the Constitution as sacred. They shouldn't
misuse their bench. I don't believe in liberal activist judges. I believe
in
strict constructionists. And those are the kind of judges I will appoint.
I've named four Supreme Court judges in the state of Texas. And I would ask
the people to check out their qualifications, their deliberations. They're
good solid men and women who have made good sound judgments on behalf of the
people of Texas.
Mr. LEHRER: Well, what kind of appointments should they expect from you,
Vice
President...
Vice Pres. GORE: Both of us use similar language to reach an exactly
opposite outcome. I don't favor litmus tests, but I know that there are
ways
to assess how a potential justice interprets the Constitution, and in my
view,
the Constitution ought to be interpreted as a document that grows with our
country and our history. And I believe, for example, that there is a right
of
privacy in the Fourth Amendment, and when the phrase `strict
constructionist'
is used and when the names of Scalia and Thomas are used as benchmarks for
who
would be appointed, those are code words--and nobody should mistake
this--for
saying that the governor would appoint people who would overturn Roe v.
Wade.
I mean, it's very clear to me.
Gov. BUSH: We...
Vice Pres. GORE: ...and I would appoint people who have a philosophy that I
think would make it quite likely that they would uphold Roe v. Wade.
Mr. LEHRER: Is the vice president right? Is that a code word for
overturning Roe v. Wade?
Gov. BUSH: Sounds like the vice president is not very right many times
tonight. I've just told you the criterion on which I'll appoint judges.
I've
had a record of appointing judges in the state of Texas. That's what a
governor gets to do. A governor gets to name Supreme Court judges. And
I've
given you my answer.
Mr. LEHRER: But--all right.
Gov. BUSH: He also reads all kinds of things into my tax plan...
Mr. LEHRER: Right.
Gov. BUSH: ...and into my Medicare plan.
Mr. LEHRER: Right.
Gov. BUSH: And I just want the viewers out there to listen to what I have
to
say about it.
Vice Pres. GORE: That's a yes, it is a code.
Mr. LEHRER: Reverse the question. Reverse the question. What code phrases
should we read by what you said about what kind of people you will appoint
to
the US Supreme Court?
Vice Pres. GORE: It'll be very likely that they'd uphold Roe v. Wade. But
I do believe it's wrong to use a litmus test. But if you look at the
history
of a lower court judge's rulings, you can get a pretty good idea of how
they're going to interpret questions. Now a lot of questions are a first
impression. And these questions that have been seen many times come up in a
new context. And so--but, you know, this is a very important issue because
a
lot of young women in this country...
Mr. LEHRER: We have three...
Vice Pres. GORE: ...take this right for granted, and it could be lost. It
is on the ballot in this election. Make no mistake about it.
Gov. BUSH: I'll tell you what kind of judges he'll put on there. He'll put
liberal activist judges who will use their bench to subvert the legislature.
That's what he'll do.
Vice Pres. GORE: That's not right.
Mr. LEHRER: New subject. New question. Vice President Gore, if President
Milosevic of Yugoslavia refuses to accept the election results and leave
office, what action, if any, should the United States take to get him out of
there?
Vice Pres. GORE: Well, Milosevic has lost the election. His opponent,
Kostunica, has won the election. It's overwhelming. Milosevic's government
refuses to release the vote count. There's now a general strike going on.
They're demonstrating. I think we should support the people of Serbia and
Yugoslavia, as they call Serbia plus Montenegro, and put pressure in every
way
possible to recognize the lawful outcome of the election. The people of
Serbia have acted very bravely in kicking this guy out of office. Now he is
trying to not release the votes and then go straight to a so-called run-off
election without even announcing the results of the first vote.
Now we've made it clear, along with our allies, that when Milosevic leaves,
then Serbia will be able to have a more normal relationship with the rest of
the world. That is a very strong incentive that we have given them to do
the
right thing. Bear in mind also, Milosevic has been indicted as a war
criminal
and he should be held accountable for his actions. Now we have to take
measured steps because the sentiment within Serbia is, for understandable
reasons, still against the United States because their nationalism has
led--even if they don't like Milosevic, they still have some feelings
lingering from the NATO action there. So we have to be intelligent in the
way
we go about it. But make no mistake about it, we should do everything we
can
to see that the will of the Serbian people expressed in this extraordinary
election is done. And I hope that he'll be out of office very shortly.
Mr. LEHRER: Governor Bush, one minute.
Gov. BUSH: Well, I'm pleased with the results of the election, as the the
vice president is. It's time for the man to go. And it means that the
United
States must have a strong diplomatic hand with our friends in NATO. That's
why it's important to make sure our alliances are as strong as they possibly
can be to keep the pressure on Mr. Milosevic. But this will be an
interesting moment for the Russians to step up and lead as well. It'd be
wonderful time for the president of Russia to step in to the Balkans and
convince Mr. Milosevic it's in his best interest and his country's best
interest to leave office. The Russians have got a lot of sway in that part
of
the world, and we'd like to see them use that sway to encourage democracy to
take hold. And so it's an encouraging election. It's time for the man to
leave.
Mr. LEHRER: But what if he doesn't leave, Mr. Vice--what if all the
things--all the diplomatic efforts, all the pressure from all over the world
and he still doesn't go, is this the kind of thing, to be specific, that
you,
as president, would consider the use of US military force to get him gone?
Vice Pres. GORE: In this particular situation, no. Bear in mind that we
have a lot of sanctions in force against Serbia right now. And the people
of
Serbia know that they can escape all those sanctions if this guy is turned
out
of power. Now I understand what the governor has said about asking the
Russians to be involved. And under some circumstances, that might be a good
idea. But being as they have not yet been willing to recognize Kostunica as
the lawful winner of the election, I'm not sure that it's right for us to
invite the president of Russia to mediate this dispute there because we
might
not like the result that comes out of that. They currently favor going
forward with a run-off election. I think that's the wrong thing. I think
the
governor's instinct is not necessarily bad because we have worked with the
Russians in a constructive way in Kosovo, for example, to end the conflict
there. But I think we need to be very careful in the present situation
before
we invite the Russians to play the lead role in mediating.
Gov. BUSH: Well, obviously we wouldn't use the Russians if they didn't
agree
with our answer, Mr. Vice President.
Vice Pres. GORE: Well, they don't.
Gov. BUSH: But let me say this to you, I wouldn't use force. I wouldn't
use
force.
Mr. LEHRER: You wouldn't use force?
Gov. BUSH: No.
Mr. LEHRER: Why not?
Gov. BUSH: Because it's not in our national interest to use force in this
case. I would keep pressure, I would use diplomacy. There's a difference
between what the president did, who I supported, in Kosovo and this. And
it's
up to the people in this region to figure out how to take control of their
country.
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