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Mr. LEHRER: New question. How would you go about as president deciding when it was in the national interest to use US force generally?

Gov. BUSH: Well, if it's in our vital national interests. And that means whether or not our territory is threatened or people could be harmed, whether or not our defense alliances are threatened, whether or not our friends in the Middle East are threatened. That would be a time to seriously consider the use of force. Secondly, whether or not the mission was clear, whether or not it was a clear understanding as to what the mission would be. Thirdly, whether or not we were prepared and trained to win; whether or not our forces were of high morale and high standing and well-equipped. And finally, whether or not there was an exit strategy.

I would take the use of force very seriously. I would be guarded in my approach. I don't think we can be all things to all people in the world. I think we've got to be very careful when we commit our troops. The vice president and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders. I believe the role of the military is to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place. And so I take my responsibility seriously.

And it starts with making sure we rebuild our military power. Morale in today's military is too low. We're having trouble meeting recruiting goals. We met the goals this year, but in the previous years, we have not met recruiting goals. Some of our troops are not well-equipped. I believe we're overextended in too many places. And, therefore, I want to rebuild the military power. It starts with a billion-dollar pay raise for the men and women who wear the uniform, a billion dollars more than the president recently signed into law just to make sure our troops are well-housed and well-equipped, bonus plans to keep some of our high-skilled folks in the services and a commander in chief who clearly sets the mission. And the mission is to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place.

Mr. LEHRER: Vice President Gore, one minute.

Vice Pres. GORE: Let me tell you what I'll do. First of all, I want to make it clear, our military is the strongest, best trained, best equipped, best led fighting force in the world and in the history of the world. Nobody should have any doubt about that, least of all our adversaries or potential adversaries. If you entrust me with the presidency, I will do whatever is necessary in order to make sure our forces stay the strongest in the world.

In fact, in my 10-year budget proposal, I have set aside more than twice as much for this purpose as Governor Bush has in his proposal. Now I think we should be reluctant to get involved in some place in a foreign country, but if our national security is at stake, if we have allies, if we've tried every other course, if we're sure military action will succeed and if the costs are proportionate to the benefits, we should get involved. Now just because we don't want to get involved everywhere doesn't mean we should back off anywhere it comes up. And I disagree with the proposal that maybe only when oil supplies are at stake that our national security is at risk. I think that there are situations, like in Bosnia or Kosovo, where there's a genocide where our national security is at stake there.

Mr. LEHRER: Governor?

Gov. BUSH: I agree that our military is the strongest in the world today. That's not the question. The question is it will be the strongest in years to come. And the warning signs are real. Everywhere I go around the campaign trail, I see people who--moms and dads whose son or daughter may wear the uniform and they tell me about how discouraged their son or daughter may be. A recent poll was taken amongst 1,000 enlisted personnel, as well as officers, over half of whom are going to leave the service when their time of enlistment is up. The captains are leaving the service.

There is a problem and it's going to require a new commander in chief to rebuild the military power. The other day I was honored to be flanked by Colin Powell and General Norman Schwarzkopf, who stood by my side and agreed with me. They said we can--even though we're the strongest military, that if we don't do something quickly, we don't have a clearer vision of the military, if we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road. And I'm going to prevent that. I'm going to rebuild our military power. It's one of the major priorities of my administration.

Mr. LEHRER: Vice President Gore, how should the voters go about deciding which one of you is better suited to make the kinds of decisions we've been (unintelligible), whether it's Milosevic or whether it's whatever, in the military and foreign policy area?

Vice Pres. GORE: Well, they should look at our proposals and look at us as people and make up their own minds. When I was a young man, I volunteered for the Army. I served my country in Vietnam. My father was a senator who strongly opposed the Vietnam War. I went to college in this great city, and most of my peers felt against the war as I did. But I went anyway, because I knew if I didn't, somebody else in the small town of Carthage, Tennessee, would have to go in my place. I served for eight years in the House of Representatives, and I served on the Intelligence Committee, specialized in looking at arms control. I served for eight years in the United States Senate and served on the Armed Services Committee.

For the last eight years, I've served on the National Security Council. And when the conflict came up in Bosnia, I saw a genocide in the heart of Europe with the most violent war on the continent of Europe since World War II. Look, that's where World War I started, in the Balkans. My uncle was a victim of poison gas there.

Mr. LEHRER: Bu...

Vice Pres. GORE: Millions of Americans saw the results of that conflict. We have to be willing to make good, sound judgments. And incidentally, I know the value of making sure our troops have the latest technology. The governor's proposed skipping the next generation of weapons. I think that's a big mistake...

Mr. LEHRER: Governor...

Vice Pres. GORE: ...because I think we have to stay at the cutting edge.

Mr. LEHRER: Governor, how would you advise the voters to make the decision on this issue?

Gov. BUSH: I think you've got to look at how one has handled responsibility in office. Whether or not--it's the same in domestic policy as well, Jim; whether or not you've got the capacity to convince people to follow, whether or not one makes decisions based upon sound principles or whether or not you rely upon polls and focus groups on how to decide what the course of action is. We've got too much polling and focus groups going on in Washington today. We need decisions made on sound principles.

I've been the governor of a big state. I think one of the hallmarks of my relationship in Austin, Texas, is, is that I've the capacity to work with both Republicans and Democrats. I think that's an important part of leadership. I think it--what it means to build consensus. I've shown I know how to do so. As a matter of fact, tonight in the audience, there's one elected state senator who's a Democrat, a former state rep who's a Democrat, a couple of--one statewide officer is a Democrat. I mean, there's a lot of Democrats who are here in the debate to....

Mr. LEHRER: We're--go ahead. Go ahead.

Gov. BUSH: ...because they want to show their support. That shows I know how to lead, and so the fundamental answer to your question, who can lead and who has shown the ability to get things done?

Vice Pres. GORE: If I could say one other thing about that...

Mr. LEHRER: We're way over the three and a half minutes. Go ahead. This...

Vice Pres. GORE: I think one of the key points in foreign policy and national security policy is the need to re-establish...

Mr. LEHRER: But...

Vice Pres. GORE: ...the old-fashioned principle that politics ought to stop at the water's edge. When I was in the United States Congress, I worked with former President Reagan to modernize our strategic weaponry and to pursue arms control in a responsible way. When I was in the United States Senate, I worked with former President Bush, your father, and was one of only a few Democrats in the Senate to support the Persian Gulf War. I think bipartisanship is a national asset...

Mr. LEHRER: OK.

Vice Pres. GORE: ...and we have to find ways to re-establish it in foreign policy and national security policy.

Mr. LEHRER: In a word, do you have a problem with that?

Gov. BUSH: Yeah, why haven't they done it in seven years?

Mr. LEHRER: New subject, new question. Should the voters of this election, Vice President Gore, see this in the domestic area as a major choice between competing political philosophies?

Vice Pres. GORE: Oh, absolutely. This is a very important moment in the history of our country. Look, we've got the biggest surpluses in all of American history. The key question that has to be answered in this election is will we use that prosperity wisely in a way that benefits all of our people and doesn't go just to the few? Almost half of all the tax-cut benefits, as I said, under Governor Bush's plan go to the wealthiest 1 percent. I think we have to make the right and responsible choices. I think we have to invest in education, protecting the environment, health care, a prescription drug benefit that goes to all seniors, not just to the poor, under Medicare, not relying on HMOs and insurance companies.

I think that we have to help parents and strengthen families by dealing with the kind of inappropriate entertainment material that families are just heartsick that their children are exposed to. I think we have got to have welfare reform taken to the next stage. I think that we have got to balance the budget every single year, pay down the national debt and, in fact, under my proposal, the national debt will be completely eliminated by the year 2012. I think we need to put Medicare and Social Security in a lockbox. The governor will not put Medicare in a lockbox. I don't think it should be used as a piggy bank for other programs. I think it needs to be moved out of the budget and protected.

I'll veto anything that takes money out of Social Security or Medicare for anything other than Social Security or Medicare. Now the priorities are just very different. I'll give you a couple of examples. For every new dollar that I propose for spending on health care, Governor Bush spends $3 for a tax cut for the wealthiest 1 percent. Now for every dollar that I propose to spend on education, he spends $5 on a tax cut for the wealthiest 1 percent. Those are very clear differences.

Mr. LEHRER: Governor, one minute.

Gov. BUSH: The man's practicing fuzzy math again. There's differences. Under Vice President Gore's plan, he's going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965. And we're talking about a massive government, folks. We're talking about adding to or increasing 200 new programs--200 programs, 20,000 new bureaucrats. Imagine how many IRS agents it's going to take to be able to figure out his targeted tax cut for the middle class that excludes 50 million Americans. There is a huge difference in this campaign.

He says he's going to give you tax cuts. Fifty million of you won't receive it. He said in his speech he wants to make sure the right people get tax relief. That's not the role of a president to decide right and wrong. Everybody who pays taxes ought to get tax relief. After my plan is in place, the wealthiest Americans will pay a higher percentage of taxes than they do today. And the poorest of Americans--6 million families, 7 million people won't pay any tax at all. It is a huge difference. It's the difference between big, exploding federal government that wants to think on your behalf and a plan that meets priorities and liberates working people to be able to make decisions on your own.

Vice Pres. GORE: Let me just say, Jim, you haven't heard the governor deny these numbers. He's called them phony, he's called them fuzzy. But the fact remains. Almost 30 percent of his proposed tax cut goes only to Americans that make more than $1 million per year.

Mr. LEHRER: Let's...

Vice Pres. GORE: More money goes to the--can I have a rebuttal here?

Mr. LEHRER: Sure. But I just want to see if he buys that.

Gov. BUSH: No, let me just tell you what the facts are. The facts are after my plan, the wealthiest of Americans pay more taxes of the percentage of the whole than they do today. Secondly, if you're a family of four making $50,000 in Massachusetts, you get a 50 percent tax cut. Let me give you one example. The Strunk family in Allentown, Pennsylvania. I campaigned with them the other day. They make $51,000 combined income. They pay about $3,800 in taxes an--or $3,500 in taxes. Under my plan, they get $1,800 of tax relief. Under Vice President Gore's plan, they get $145 of tax relief. Now you tell me who stands on the side of the rich.

Vice Pres. GORE: Look, he's...

Gov. BUSH: You ask the Strunks.

Vice Pres. GORE: Look, he's...

Gov. BUSH: You ask the Strunks...

Vice Pres. GORE: If I could get my...

Gov. BUSH: ...whose plan makes more sense. And there's a difference of opinion. He would rather spend the Strunks' $1,800 and I would rather the Strunks spend your own money.

Mr. LEHRER: You see it that way, Vice President Gore?

Vice Pres. GORE: No, I don't. And I'm not going to go to calling names on his facts. I'm just going to tell you what the real facts are. The analysis that he's talking about leaves out more than half of the tax cuts that I have proposed. And if you just add the numbers up--he still hasn't denied it--he spends more money on a tax cut for the wealthiest 1 percent than all of his new proposals for prescription drugs, health care, education and national defense combined. Now those are the wrong priorities: $665 billion over 10 years for the wealthiest 1 percent.

And as I said, almost 30 percent of it goes to Americans that make more than $1 million per year. Every middle-class family is eligible for a tax cut under my proposal. Let me give you some specific examples. I believe that college tuition up to $10,000 a year ought to be tax deductible so middle-class families can choose to send their children to college. I believe that all seniors should be able to choose their own doctors and get prescription drugs from their own pharmacists with Medicare paying half the bill. I believe that parents ought to have more choices with charter schools and public school choice to send their kids always to a safe school. I think we need to make education the number-one priority in our country and treat teachers like the professionals that they are, and that's why I have made it the number one priority in my budget, not a tax cut for the wealthy.

Gov. BUSH: Yeah. Let me talk about tax cuts one more time. This is a man whose plan excludes 50 million Americans.

Vice Pres. GORE: Not so.

Gov. BUSH: He doesn't believe that--well, take, for example, the marriage penalty. If you itemize your tax return, you get no marriage penalty relief. He picks and chooses. He decides who the right people are. It's a fundamental difference of opinion. I want my fellow Americans to hear one more time. We're going to spend $25 trillion--we're going to collect $25 trillion of revenue over the next 10 years. And we're projected to spend $21 trillion. Now surely, we can send 5 percent of that back to you all who pay the bills. There is a problem--I want to say something, Jim. Wait a minute.

Mr. LEHRER: OK.

Gov. BUSH: This man's been disparaging my plan with all this Washington fuzzy math. I want you to hear a problem we've got in America. If you're a single mother making $22,000 a year and you've got two children, under this tax code, for every additional dollar you make, you pay a higher marginal rate on that dollar than someone making $200,000 a year, and that is not right. And so my plan drops the rate from 15 percent to 10 percent, and increases the child credit from $500 to $1,000 to make the code more fair for everybody; not just a few...

Vice Pres. GORE: I...

Gov. BUSH: ...not just, you know, a handful. Everybody who pays taxes ought to get some relief.

Mr. LEHRER: All right. Having cleared that up, we're going to a new question. Education. Governor Bush, both of you have promised dramatically to change dramatically public education in this country, but of the public money spent on education, only 6 percent of it is federal money.

Gov. BUSH: Right.

Mr. LEHRER: You want to change 100 percent of public education with 6 percent of the money. Is that possible?

Gov. BUSH: Well, I tell you, we can make a huge difference by saying if you receive federal money, we expect you to show results. Let me give you a story about public ed, if I might, Jim. It's about KIPP Academy in Houston, Texas. It's a charter school run by some people from Teach for America, young folks that say, `Well, I'm going to do something good for my country. I want to teach.' A guy named Michael runs the school. It's a school full of so-called at-risk children. So it's how we, unfortunately, label certain children. It means basically they can't learn. It's a school of strong discipline and high standards. It's one of the best schools in Houston.

And here are the key ingredients: high expectations, strong accountability. What Michael says is, `Don't put all these rules on us. Just let us teach and hold us accountable for every grade,' and that's what we do. And as a result, these young, mainly Hispanic youngsters are some of the best learners in Houston, Texas. That's my vision for public education all around America. Many of you viewers don't know, but Laura and I sent our girls to public school. They went to Austin High School. And many of the public schools are meeting the call. But, unfortunately, a lot of schools are trapping children in schools that just won't teach and won't change. So here's the role of the federal government. One is to change Head Start into a reading program. Two is to say that if you want to access reading money, you can do so because the goal is for every single child to learn to read. There must be K through 2 diagnostic tools, there's teacher training money available.

Three, we've got to consolidate federal programs to free districts, to free the schools, to encourage innovators like Michael to let schools reach out beyond the confines of the current structure to recruit teach for the children-type teachers. Four, we're going to say if you receive federal money, measure--third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade--and show us whether or not children are learning to read and write and add and subtract and, if so, there'll be a bonus plan. But if not, instead of continuing to subsidize failure, the money will go to the parents so the parent can choose a different public school--the federal money contributed to the child will go the parent for a public school or a charter school or a tutorial or Catholic school. What I care about is children, and so does Michael Feinberg. And you know what? It can happen in America with the right kind of leadership.

Mr. LEHRER: Vice President Gore?

Vice Pres. GORE: Look, we agree on a couple of things on education. I strongly support new accountability; so does Governor Bush. I strongly support local control; so does Governor Bush. I'm in favor of testing as a way of measuring performance. Every school, every school district, have every state test the children. I've also proposed a voluntary national test in the fourth grade and eighth grade. And a form of testing that the governor has not endorsed, I think that all new teachers ought to be tested, including in the subjects that they teach. We've got to recruit 100,000 new teachers, and I have budgeted for that. We've got to reduce the class size so that the student who walks in has more one-on-one time with the teacher. We ought to have universal preschool, and we ought to make college tuition tax deductible up to $10,000 a year.

I'd like to tell you a quick story. I got a letter today as I left Sarasota, Florida. I'm here with a group of 13 people from around the country who helped me prepare, and we had a great time. But two days ago, we ate lunch at a restaurant, and the guy who served us lunch got me a letter today. His name is Randy Ellis. He has a 15-year-old daughter named Kailey, who's in Sarasota High School. Her science class was supposed to be for 24 students. She is the 36th student in that classroom, sent me a picture of her in the classroom. They can't squeeze another desk in for her, so she has to stand during class.

Mr. LEHRER: OK. W...

Vice Pres. GORE: I want the federal government, consistent with local control and new accountability...

Mr. LEHRER: So...

Vice Pres. GORE: ...to make improvement of our schools the number one priority so Kailey will have a desk and can sit down in a classroom where she can learn.

Mr. LEHRER: All right. So having heard the two of you--voters have just heard the two of you, what's the difference? What's the choice between the two of you on education?

Gov. BUSH: Well, the first is--the difference is there is no new accountability measures in Vice President Gore's plan. He says he's for voluntary testing.

Vice Pres. GORE: No.

Gov. BUSH: You can't have voluntary testing. You must have mandatory testing. You must say that if you receive money, you must show us whether or not children are learning to read and write and add and subtract. That's the difference. You may claim you've got mandatory testing, but you don't, Mr. Vice President, and that is a huge difference. Testing is the cornerstone of reform. You know how I know? Because it's the cornerstone of reform in the state of Texas.

Republicans and Democrats came together and asked the question, `What can we do to make our public education the best in the country?' And we've gone a long way working together to do so. And the cornerstone is to have strong accountability. In return for money and in return for flexibility, we're going to ask you to show us whether or not--and we ask them post the results on the Internet. We encourage parents to take a look at the comparative results of schools. We've got a strong charter school movement that I signed the legislation to get started in the state of Texas.

I believe if we find poor children trapped in schools that won't teach, we need to free the parents. I think we need to expand education savings accounts. It's something vice presidential running mate supports. Now there's big differences of opinion. He won't support...

Vice Pres. GORE: But he...

Gov. BUSH: He won't support freeing local districts from the strings of federal money.

Mr. LEHRER: All right. How do you see the differences?

Vice Pres. GORE: Well, first of all, I do have mandatory testing. I think the governor may not have heard what I said clearly. The voluntary national test is in addition to the mandatory testing that we require of states: all schools, all school districts, students themselves and required teacher testing, which goes a step farther than Governor Bush has been willing to go.

Here are a couple of differences though, Jim. Governor Bush is in favor of vouchers, which take taxpayer money away from public schools and give them to private schools that are not accountable for how the money is used and don't have to take all applicants. Now private schools play a great role in our society. All of our children have gone to both public schools and private schools. But I don't think private schools should have a right to take taxpayer money away from public schools at a time when Kailey Ellis is standing in that classroom.

Let me give you another example. I went to a school in Dade County, Florida, where the facilities are so overcrowded, the children have to eat lunch in shifts, with the first shift for lunch starting at 9:30 in the morning.

Look, this is a funding crisis all around the country. There are fewer parents of school-age children as a percentage of the voting population, and there's the largest generation of students ever. We're in an information age when learning is more important than ever. Ninety percent of our kids go to public schools. We have to make it the number-one priority: modernize our schools, reduce the class size, recruit new teachers, give every child a chance to learn with one-on-one time in a high-quality, safe school. If it's a failing school, shut it down and reopen it under a new principal with a turn-around team of specialists, the way Governor Jim Hunt does in North Carolina. Here's another difference. The governor, if it's a failing school, would leave the children in that failing school for three years...

Gov. BUSH: Right.

Vice Pres. GORE: ...and then give a little bit of money to the parents, a down payment on a down payment, for private school tuition and pretend that that would be enough for them to go out and go to a private school.

Mr. LEHRER: We have to move on, 30 seconds, Governor.

Gov. BUSH: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Mr. LEHRER: OK. OK.

Gov. BUSH: OK. Yeah. First of all, most good governance is at the state level. See, here's the mentality: `I'm going to make the state do this. I'm going to make the state do that.' All I'm saying is if you spend money, show us results and test every year, which you do not do, Mr. Vice President. You do not test every year. You can say you do in the cameras, but you don't, unless you've changed your plan here on the stage.

Vice Pres. GORE: I didn't say that. I didn't say that.

Gov. BUSH: Secondly--and you need to test every year because that's where you determine whether or not children are progressing to excellence. Secondly, one of the things that we've got to be careful about in politics is throwing money at a system that has not yet been reformed. More money is needed, and I spend more money, but step one is to make sure we reform the system; to have the system in place that leaves no child behind; to stop this business about asking, `Gosh, how old are you? If you're 10, we're going to put you here. If we're 12, we'll put you here.' And start asking the question, `What do you know?' And if you don't know what you're supposed to know, we'll make sure you do early and before it is too late.

Mr. LEHRER: New question. We've been talking about a lot of specific issues. It's often said that, in the final analysis, about 90 percent of being the president of the United States is dealing with the unexpected, not with issues that came up in the campaign. Vice President Gore, can you point to a decision, an action you have taken, that illustrates your ability to handle the unexpected, the crisis under fire, etc.?

Vice Pres. GORE: When the action in Kosovo was dragging on, and we were searching for a solution to the problem--our country had defeated the adversary on the battlefield without a single American life being lost in combat, but the dictator, Milosevic, was hanging on. I invited the former prime minister of Russia to my house and took a risk in asking him to get personally involved, along with the head of Finland, to go to Belgrade and to take a set of proposals from the United States that would constitute, basically, a surrender by Serbia. But it was a calculated risk that paid off.

Now I could probably give you some other examples of decisions over the last 24 years. I have been in public service for 24 years, Jim, and throughout all that time, the people I have fought for have been the middle-class families, and I have been willing to stand up to powerful interests, like the big insurance companies, the drug companies, the HMOs, the oil companies. They have good people, and they play constructive roles sometimes, but sometimes they get too much power.

I cast my lot with the people, even when it means that you have to stand up to some powerful interests who are trying to turn the policies and the laws to their advantage. You can see it in this campaign. The big drug companies support Governor Bush's prescription drug proposal; they oppose mine because they don't want to get Medicare involved because they're afraid that Medicare will negotiate lower prices for seniors, who currently pay the highest prices of all.

Mr. LEHRER: Governor Bush?

Gov. BUSH: Well, I've been standing up to big Hollywood, big trial lawyers. What was the question? It was about emergencies, wasn't it?

Mr. LEHRER: Well, it was about--well, yeah. OK.

Gov. BUSH: You know, as governor, one of the things you have to deal with is catastrophe. I can remember the fires that swept Parker County, Texas. I remember the floods that swept our state. I remember going down to Del Rio, Texas. I've got to pay the administration a compliment. James Lee Witt of FEMA has done a really good job of working with governors during times of crisis. But that's the time when you're tested, not only--it's the time you test your mettle. It's the time to test your heart, when you see people whose lives have been turned upside down.

It broke my heart to go to the flood scene in Del Rio, where a fellow and his family just got completely uprooted. The only thing I knew to do was to get aid as quickly as possible, which we did with state and federal help, and to put my arms around the man and his family and cry with them. But that's what governors do. Governors are oftentimes found on the front line of catastrophic situations.

Mr. LEHRER: New question. There can be all kinds of crises, Governor. Question for you. There could be a crisis, for instance, in the financial area.

Gov. BUSH: Yeah.

Mr. LEHRER: The stock market could take a tumble. There could be a failure of a major financial institution. What is your general attitude toward government intervention in such events?

Gov. BUSH: Well, it depends, obviously, but what I would do, first and foremost, is I would get in touch with the Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan, to find out all the facts and all the circumstances. I would have my secretary of Treasury be in touch with the financial centers, not only here, but at home. I would make sure that key members of Congress were called in to discuss the gravity of the situation. And I would come up with a game plan to deal with it. That's what governors end up doing. We end up being problem solvers. We come up with practical, commonsense solutions for problems that we're confronted with. And in this case, in case of a financial crisis, I would gather all the facts before I made the decision as to what the government ought or ought not to do.

Mr. LEHRER: Vice President Gore?

Vice Pres. GORE: Yeah. First, I want to compliment the governor on his response to those fires and floods in Texas. I accompanied James Lee Witt down to Texas when those fires broke out, and FEMA has been a major flagship project of our reinventing government efforts. And I agree, it works extremely well now.

On the international financial crises that come up, my friend, Rob Rubin, the former secretary of Treasury, is here; he's a very close adviser to me and a great friend in all respects. I have had a chance to work with him and Alan Greenspan and others on the crisis following the collapse of the Mexican peso, when the Asian financial crisis raised the risk of worldwide recession that could affect our economy. And now, of course, the euro's value has been dropping, but it seems to be under control.

But it started for me in the last eight years when I had the honor of casting the tie-breaking vote to end the old economic plan here at home and put into place a new economic plan that has helped us to make some progress: 22 million new jobs and the greatest prosperity ever. But it's not good enough, and my attitude is you ain't seen nothing yet. We need to do more and better.

Mr. LEHRER: So, Governor, would you agree there is no basic difference here on the federal government intervening in what might be seen by others to be a private financial crisis, if it's that severe.

Gov. BUSH: No, there's no difference on that. There is a difference, though, as to what the economy has meant. I think the economy has meant more for the Gore and Clinton folks than the Gore and Clinton folks have meant for the economy. I think most of the economic growth that has taken place is the result of ingenuity and hard work and entrepreneurship, and that's the role of government, is to encouraging that. But in terms of the response to the question, no.

Mr. LEHRER: OK.

Vice Pres. GORE: Can I comment on that?

Mr. LEHRER: You may.

Vice Pres. GORE: See, you know, I think that the American people deserve credit for the great economy that we have, and it's their ingenuity. I agree with that. But, you know, they were working pretty hard eight years ago, and they had ingenuity eight years ago. The difference is we've got a new policy, and instead of concentrating on tax cuts mostly for the wealthy, we want--I want tax cuts for the middle-class families, and I want to continue the prosperity and make sure that it enriches not just the few, but all of our families.

Look, we have gone from the biggest deficits to the biggest surpluses. We've gone from a triple-dip recession during the previous 12 years to a tripling of the stock market. Instead of high unemployment, we've got the lowest African-American and lowest Latino unemployment rates ever in history and 22 million new jobs, but it's not good enough. Too many people have been left behind. We have got to do much more, and the key is job training, education, investments in health care and education, the environment, retirement security. And, incidentally, we have got to preserve Social Security, and I am totally opposed to diverting one out of every $6 away from the Social Security trust fund, as the governor has proposed, into the stock market.

I want new incentives for savings and investment for the young couples who are working hard so they can save and invest on their own, on top of Social Security, not at the expense of Social Security, as the governor proposes.

Mr. LEHRER: Governor?

Gov. BUSH: Two points. One, a lot of folks are still waiting for that 1992 middle-class tax cut. I remember the vice president saying, `Just give us a chance to get up there. We're going to make sure you get tax cuts.' It didn't happen. And now he's having to say it again. They've had their chance to deliver a tax cut to you.

Secondly, the surest way to bust this economy is to increase the role and the size of the federal government. The Senate Budget Committee did a study of the vice president's expenditures. They've projected that it could conceivably bust the budget by $900 billion. That means he's either going to have to raise your taxes by $900 billion or go into the Social Security surplus for $900 billion. This is a plan that is going to increase the bureaucracy by 20,000 people. His targeted tax cut is so detailed, so much fine print that it's going to require numerous IRS agents.

Now we need somebody to simplify the code, to be fair, to continue prosperity by sharing some of the surplus with the people who pay the bills, particularly those at the bottom end of the economic ladder.

Vice Pres. GORE: If I could respond, Jim, what he's quoting is not the Senate Budget Committee. It is a partisan press release by the Republicans on the Senate Budget Committee that's not worth the taxpayer-paid paper that it's printed on. Now as for 20,000 new bureaucrats, as you call them, you know...

Mr. LEHRER: Do it quick.

Vice Pres. GORE: ...the size of the federal government will go down in a Gore administration. In the Reinventing Government Program, you just look at the numbers, it is 300,000 people smaller today than it was eight years ago.

Mr. LEHRER: You...

Vice Pres. GORE: Now the fact is you're going to have a hard time convincing folks that we were a whole lot better off eight years ago than we are today, but that's not the question. The question is: Will we be better off four years from now than we are today? And as for the surest way to threaten our prosperity, having a $1.9 trillion tax cut, almost half of which goes to the wealthy, and a $1 trillion Social Security privatization proposal...

Gov. BUSH: That's not--wait a minute.

Vice Pres. GORE: ...is the surest way to put our budget into deficit...

Gov. BUSH: I can't...

Vice Pres. GORE: ...raise interest rates and put our prosperity at risk.

Gov. BUSH: I can't let the man continue with fuzzy math. It's $1.3 trillion, Mr. Vice President. It's going to go to everybody who pays taxes. I'm not going to be one of these kinds of president that says, `You get tax relief and you don't.'

Mr. LEHRER: All right.

Gov. BUSH: I'm not going to be a pick-and-chooser.

Mr. LEHRER: I...

Gov. BUSH: What is fair is everybody who pays taxes ought to get relief.

Mr. LEHRER: I thought we cleared this up a while ago.

Vice Pres. GORE: Yeah.

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