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SCOTT SIMON, host: Jim Lehrer of public television's "The NewsHour," speaking from tonight's first presidential debate in Boston. To recap some of what went on for you, to begin with perhaps the least important, both candidates seem to have been dressed by the same political consultants: dark suits, white shirts, red ties. Mr. Gore's color was somewhat more pointed.

Mr. Gore charged hard against Governor Bush's proposals to cut taxes, saying that would threaten popular government programs, including Social Security and Medicare. Governor Bush disputed that and repeated that surpluses belong to the American people. There was a prolonged dispute over health care. Mr. Gore said Governor Bush's plan would leave many senior citizens uncovered. Mr. Bush disagreed and said, `Sometimes I think Mr. Gore invented not only the Internet, but the calculator.'

On the other hand, Mr. Gore, a noted environmentalist, and Mr. Bush, an old Texas oilman, somewhat muted their differences over lowering the price of oil and protecting the environment. And even their sharp differences over abortion--Governor Bush said he could not overturn the FDA decision to make the RU-846 abortion pill available and wouldn't require Supreme Court appointments to agree with him on abortion. Mr. Gore said he thought that was code and said, `Make no mistake. Abortion is on the ballot in this election.'

Mr. Gore emphasized the fact that he volunteered to serve in the Army in the war in Vietnam. Governor Bush never mentioned serving in the Texas National Guard. Throughout, Governor Bush called for tax cuts and said the vice president wants to use the budget surplus to create what he called, `a big, exploding federal government.' Mr. Gore repeated that the governor's tax cut, in his judgment, would benefit only the wealthiest 1 percent of all Americans and, of course, Governor Bush disputed that. He kept saying that the vice president used what he called `fuzzy economics.'

As we speak now, the families are joining the candidates on the stage. You're listening to live coverage of the first presidential debate from NPR News.

And NPR's Anthony Brooks is standing by live in the Clark Center on the University of Massachusetts campus in Boston. Tony, thanks for being with us.

ANTHONY BROOKS reporting: Good to be with you, Scott. How are you?

SIMON: Fine, thanks. And help us review the candidates' performances. In the bluntest possible terms, how did they put themselves across?

BROOKS: Well, I mean, I guess to use the cliche, I didn't see or hear any knockouts tonight. But I guess if you were to score it on points, I'd say Gore was able to put his points across probably a little more forcefully, probably with a little more clarity, whereas at times it struck me that Bush seemed to be groping a little bit for the facts and for his arguments. However, that's not really a fair assessment of the debate as a whole because so much is based on the expectations and the two different goals that the candidates were trying to approach here.

I think, you know, Bush needed to show that he could stand up on the stage with a guy with a fierce reputation as a very good debater and a sitting vice president. And I think, to an extent, he accomplished that and that's no small feat for him. Gore, on the other hand, was known to be a fierce debater. Expectations were high for him and I think what he had to continue to do was to introduce himself as a person, show that he could be a likeable guy, and I'm not in a position to assess that. That's going to be up to the voters, but that was certainly his challenge and that's the question that sort of remains out there. But I think on sort of a point by point how they went after each other on the arguments, I tended to think Gore was a little more organized in his presentation.

SIMON: Three or four times by my count Mr. Gore said to Governor Bush, or said of Governor Bush's argument, `Well, we agree with this.' `We agree on that.'

BROOKS: Yeah, it's true. Yeah, I found it interesting, for example, that Governor Bush was the first one to attack, accusing Gore of fuzzy math, and I think you referred to this just a moment ago: `You not only invented the Internet, you invented the calculator.' He attacked his character, he attacked his credibility and Gore didn't take the bait. And...

SIMON: He said he liked his family and appreciated his closeness to his family.

BROOKS: Right. Yeah. And I think another thing that Gore was able to do quite well was to keep coming back to the issue about the governor's tax cut. What I thought Bush did quite well is keep coming back to the idea that `Gore is a proponent of big government and I want to free people up and give people more options, more flexibility.' But, you know, the question is, were there big themes that resonated with that relatively small group of undecided voters? And that's a question that I feel I'll be more qualified to answer when I get back out on the campaign trail and talk to some of those voters.

SIMON: OK. Thanks very much. NPR's Anthony Brooks in the Clark Center, the site of tonight's debate.

Language Candidates Used: SCOTT SIMON, host: Let us spend a few minutes now talking about the language candidates used, for those whose ears, if you please, certain turns of phrases might have been met. Andy Kohut is director of The Pew Research Center For The People & The Press. He joins us from our studios in New York City. Andy, thanks for being with us.

Mr. ANDY KOHUT (Director, Pew Research Center For The People & The Press): Happy to be with you.

SIMON: And what are some of the words you noticed that might have been directed at certain audiences, groups of voters?

Mr. KOHUT: Well, the phrase `wealthiest 1 percent' came out of Gore's mouth many, many times. I lost count, probably more than a half a dozen. And that's directed to middle-class people. It's a populist appeal that helped Gore in the summer rally the Democratic base, rally all kinds of swing voters who have had doubts about the vice president on the basis of his leadership abilities or character--some personal qualities, but have responded to the notion that he's going to stand up for them against the interests of rich people. And the vice president also talked about standing up to oil companies and drug companies, and the populist themes were very apparent. They were directed at the middle class. Of course, Governor Bush invoked the middle class as well, because that's where the swing voters are.

SIMON: Yeah. Well, what about Governor Bush coming back, making his own best portrayal, I guess, of proposed tax cuts by saying, `That is money that belongs to American people, not the government, and I want to empower people to make those decisions'? That's got populist appeal, too, doesn't it?

Mr. KOHUT: It does. And it's the Republican approach to this. He talked about not allowing an exploding government bureaucracy to think on your behalf. And he...

SIMON: Yeah, the nightmare vision he had of 20,000 IRS agents.

Mr. KOHUT: Yes. And, you know, both of them, you know, were not too subtle in what they were trying to convey to voters. And they--Governor Bush also talked about Washington in a way that made it clear to voters that Washington was a place where your interests are not as well served as your own local communities, and many people believe that and that's what he's trying to have happen in the minds of some of these undecided voters.

SIMON: Andy, what do you notice out of the abortion debate? Because the two candidates have, judging their position papers, distinct differences. On the other hand, it maybe didn't sound that way tonight.

Mr. KOHUT: Well, I think they both tried to seem like moderates. With Governor Bush starting--I believe he started, saying that, you know, `The FDA made this decision. Well, that's that,' and there would be no litmus test. And then the vice president came back and, in his own way, said that, you know, he would sign a bill to ban partial-birth abortions yet to make sure that it protected the life of the mother; again showing some moderation in his views on the pro-choice side of this thing. So neither of these candidates wants to be seen as out on the fringes of either pro-life or pro-choice positions. And I noticed--I mean, I think the vice president attacked more, was much more aggressive on the abortion issue than the governor. But then again, I thought he was much more aggressive in many places. He was much more assertive than Governor Bush.

SIMON: Andy, thank you very much.

Mr. KOHUT: Well, you're welcome.

SIMON: Speaking with us from our studios in New York City, Andy Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press and a frequent contributor to our political coverage.

The Spin
SCOTT SIMON, host: Spin is a word often used to describe what partisans do to frame an event like tonight's debate in the minds of potential voters. The idea is to offer the best possible interpretation of your candidate's performance and perhaps to offer the least appealing appraisal of your opponent. Spin is what's going on right now in the media center at the University of Massachusetts campus and our Steve Inskeep should be on the scene. Steve, you there?

STEVE INSKEEP reporting: Yeah. I'm a little dizzy, Scott, but I'm here. Thank you very much.

SIMON: Well, tell us what you're hearing, please.

INSKEEP: Well, I'm in the media center just outside of the debate hall at the University of Massachusetts, as you said. And even before this debate was over, the spinning, the advocacy, for the candidates began. A few minutes before Gore and Bush finished their closing statements, a number of Democratic officials began pouring out onto the field. They were carrying these flags and they're holding them up now. It's like--you know, if you can imagine battle standards moving across this gigantic room full of reporters, seeking out interviews. I see names like Gene Sperling, Bill Daley, the campaign manager for the vice president. This is the first...

SIMON: They're walking around with flags so people can find them?

INSKEEP: Yeah, well, they've got aides holding these giant flags with their names on them and the Republicans came a few minutes later and they're here as well. There's Karen Hughes, the spokeswoman for Governor George Bush. A number of Republican governors are here: George Pataki and Governor Engler of Michigan, among others. And this is before the debate--even before the debate ended they were out here. Bill Daley was out here complaining about George W. Bush's closing statement before George W. Bush had made his closing statement.

And as a matter of fact, the effort is so intense to persuade those of us in the media that this candidate won, that this point was well made, that this point was not well made and simply to repeat the same soundbites that Andrew Kohut was talking about--these folks are well trained; they've got the same language; they're going to repeat the same soundbites again--that even as the debate progressed, the Gore and Bush campaigns had staffs who were listening to the statements of the opposing candidate and putting out rebuttals. Every few minutes someone would come through the room here to these hundreds of reporters and pass out hundreds of copies of rebuttals.

The last of these just came a moment ago. It's a sheet from the Bush campaign labeled Gore's Top 1 Percent Distortion, dealing with taxes. And although the Republicans seem to have the latest score here, the Democrats lead in the rebuttals category 6-to-4. So there's intense advocacy going on here; Democrats pressing the idea that Vice President Gore made his case well, that he made his case in an agreeable way to the American people, that he came across as a good personality, and Republicans arguing strenuously that George W. Bush made his points well, painted his tax cut in a favorable way and also that he sounded credible on critical issues like foreign affairs and so forth.

SIMON: Steve, thanks very much.

INSKEEP: Thank you, Scott.

SIMON: NPR's Steve Inskeep getting spinned in Boston.

Comment from the Bush Camp
SCOTT SIMON, host: Let's hear some of that for ourselves. Ray Sullivan is the spokesman for Governor Bush. Mr. Sullivan, thanks very much for being with us.

Mr. RAY SULLIVAN (Spokesman for George W. Bush): Great to be with you tonight.

SIMON: And how do you feel your candidate scored or where do you feel your candidate scored most effectively?

Mr. SULLIVAN: Well, we feel he was fabulous. He was substantive, specific, and he really drew a distinction between the two competing philosophies; Governor Bush believing that people should be trusted with their money, with their public schools, the decisions about Social Security and Medicare, vs. Vice President Gore's position that government ought to be bigger, more bureaucratic and we need one-size-fits-all government programs in areas like prescription drugs and Medicare. It was a great performance from Governor Bush. It showed that--his strong leadership, his mastery of the specifics of public policy and we're real pleased with the performance and look forward to the future debates.

SIMON: What about the governor--or, forgive me, Vice President Gore returning to the charge that a proposed Bush tax cut would benefit only 1 percent of the wealthiest Americans? Do you feel the governor was able to rebut that effectively?

Mr. SULLIVAN: Absolutely. And that will continue to be, I'm sure, a point of contention during the course of this campaign. And they're really resorting to the rhetoric of the past, building a bridge to the 19th century type of politics, if you will. The fact is that Governor Bush's plan cuts rates and cuts taxes for all Americans. Those at the bottom end of the income scale benefit most by seeing the biggest percentage tax cut. And he makes the tax system more progressive, so those at the bottom end pay less, those at the higher end of the economic scale actually have a bigger weight to carry in the tax system. So it is an important difference. Governor Bush believes that all Americans deserve a tax cut. Vice President Gore believes that only a select few, selected by the government with help from, surely, additional IRS agents should be making those type of decisions.

SIMON: Mr. Sullivan, thanks very much. I know you have a busy evening ahead. Thanks very much.

Mr. SULLIVAN: Thank you. Take care.

SIMON: Ray Sullivan, a spokesman for Governor George W. Bush of Texas.

The Gore Camp
SCOTT SIMON, host: Now we want to go on to Doug Hattaway, a spokesman for Vice President Gore. Mr. Hattaway, thank you for being with us.

Mr. DOUG HATTAWAY (Spokesman for Vice President Al Gore): It's good to be with you.

SIMON: And where do you feel your man scored most effectively, sir?

Mr. HATTAWAY: I have a slightly different take from the last guy.

SIMON: No! And we were hoping you'd agree.

Mr. HATTAWAY: Right. I think Al Gore showed that he was in command of the issues here. He drove home the central question of this campaign, which is how we're going to use our prosperity that we have today to benefit everybody, not just a few. I think he pointed very clearly at his plans to do that; he wants to eliminate the national debt and make real investment in prescription drug coverage and education and middle-class tax cuts. I don't agree that Governor Bush explained his tax cut very well. I think he did not answer the question that was put to him several times--why he would spend twice as much on a tax cut for the top 1 percent of the wealthiest taxpayers than he'd invest in education and health care, prescription drugs and national defense combined.

SIMON: Well, what about the argument, though, that Governor Bush kept pushing that it's a time of prosperity, there's a government surplus; the people ought to get that because it's their money and not the government's?

Mr. HATTAWAY: Well, I think we have choices to make here and Al Gore does want to give tax relief. He wants to target to the middle class but he thinks we also need to eliminate the national debt and make these other investments as well, not blow it all on a tax cut.

SIMON: Mr. Hattaway, I want to thank you very much for being with us.

Mr. HATTAWAY: Thank you.

SIMON: Doug Hattaway, who's a spokesman for Vice President Al Gore, speaking from Boston.

The Youth Vote
SCOTT SIMON, host: We want to turn now to Ameet Paley(ph), who is a reporter for Youth Radio. He spent the evening with college students in Chevris Hall(ph) on the campus of Boston College. Ameet, are you there?

Mr. AMEET PALEY (Youth Radio): I'm here.

SIMON: Thanks very much for being with us, and give us some idea how many students were there and what the general feeling in the room was.

Mr. PALEY: Well, it was a group of about 20 freshmen students--mostly freshmen who it's going to be their first time voting. It was a pretty informal mood. There were nachos and chips. People were just coming trickling in and looking at the debate and leaving at parts. For the most part, people were very interested in what was going on but, as the debate ran on, people started getting a little less interested; people saying, `God, when is this going to be over already?'; people saying, `I wish I were running for president. I could do a better job.' People seemed to get very quickly a little disillusioned with all the politics, all the bickering of the two candidates. They seemed to want it to get to more substantial issues and focus more on youth issues in particular.

SIMON: Yeah, well, I think the candidates would say they were pretty substantial. I mean, they kept citing statistics and proposals, didn't they?

Mr. PALEY: Well, they were but, for instance, when people started talking about--when Bush talked about Mediscare, a lot of people started chuckling at him, saying what a terrible joke and not really too enthused at their attempts to sort of pander a lot of people's thoughts and trying to get an edge. When Al Gore blew a kiss right from the beginning, someone made a quip that Gore's such a ladies' man. People sort of didn't respond so well to that, to what they thought was more obvious politicking. They wanted more discussion of issues that were related to them.

SIMON: Ameet, I understand you have a couple of students there.

Mr. PALEY: I do. I'm going to pass you right now to Melissa Gorey--I'm sorry, to Melissa Richie(ph), who's an 18-year-old freshman student.

SIMON: Right. OK. Ms. Richie, are you there?

Ms. MELISSA RICHIE: Hello.

SIMON: Ms. Richie, are you there?

Ms. RICHIE: Yes.

SIMON: Scott Simon here. How are you?

Ms. RICHIE: Good.

SIMON: Where are you from, Ms. Richie?

Ms. RICHIE: Milton, Mass.

SIMON: OK. And what did you think of the debate tonight? Did you leave with any clear decision in your mind?

Ms. RICHIE: Well, I entered the debate kind of leaning toward Bush, and after watching the debate, I know that I don't like Gore at all, which is what I was thinking in the beginning. He's just a robot. He doesn't have a personality. He just kind of molds himself to what everyone else wants him to be and that, I don't think, is a good characteristic of a president at all.

SIMON: Now, on the other hand, when Mr. Gore makes a strong declaration--and he made it half a dozen times tonight--where he said, `I'm going to put Social Security in a lockbox,' you don't find that that conveys a sense of conviction on an issue?

Ms. RICHIE: Well, the first time he said it, but then he said it, like, five times and it kind of lost all meaning.

SIMON: Well, he wanted to make certain everyone got the point, right?

Ms. RICHIE: Yes, but when he makes the same point enough times, it just gets to the point it's just annoying.

SIMON: OK. Honestly, quick question, do you think anything he could have done tonight would have changed your mind?

Ms. RICHIE: Well, it's his whole personality. He can't change his personality anymore. He's just completely fake and there's nothing that he could have done that would make me change my mind.

SIMON: OK. Ms. Richie, thank you very much. I understand you folks have a friend named Dan Gorey(ph) who's there.

Ms. RICHIE: Yep.

SIMON: May we talk to Mr. Gorey?

Mr. DAN GOREY: Hello.

SIMON: Hi, Mr. Gorey. Scott Simon here. How are you?

Mr. GOREY: Good. How you doing?

SIMON: You're an 18-year-old freshman there?

Mr. GOREY: Yes, I am.

SIMON: Nice to meet you. Where you from, Mr. Gorey?

Mr. GOREY: Scotch Plains, New Jersey.

SIMON: And, Mr. Gorey, what was your impression of the debate tonight and do you have a clear choice in mind afterwards?

Mr. GOREY: After watching the debate, I definitely have a choice. I'm voting for Gore. I know you brought the issue up that he was boring and, yes, granted, he's not the most animated character, but in Bill Clinton, a lot of people voted for him because he was animated, and look what happened there. But, anyway, Gore does know his stuff. On the issues, he seemed to know a lot more facts than Bush. Bush also said, which I thought was a complete stupid thing to do--he referred to education as being poor in some areas, especially Hispanic students, which I think is quite amusing, him bringing race into the poll.

SIMON: Mr. Gorey, thank you very much for speaking with us.

Mr. GOREY: All right. No problem.

SIMON: Dan Gorey and Melissa Richie, students at Boston College, and Ameet Paley, a reporter on the scene there who is with Youth Radio.

Conclusion
SCOTT SIMON, host: To recap, we have just brought you National Public Radio's live special coverage of the first presidential debate. Both candidates tonight were dressed a little bit like high school principals at graduation: black suits, white shirts, red ties. Governor Bush did seem to have a small pinstripe in his, we noticed.

Mr. Gore began on the attack in the evening, contending that Mr. Bush's budget plans would spend more money on tax cuts for the wealthiest 1 percent than all the new spending he proposes for education, health care, prescription drugs, national defense all combined. Mr. Gore insisted that he would cover all poor seniors in his plan. Mr. Gore said the Bush plan would cover only 5 percent of the Medicare population and would not do much for middle-class recipients.

On energy costs, the Texas governor said the Clinton-Gore administration had no energy policy and this has invited the recent shortages and price increases in oil. Mr. Bush wants to drill for oil in the Alaskan National Wildlife Refuge to substitute now for oil imported now from Iraq. The vice president said that refuge ought to be preserved from drilling and that demand for oil should be decreased by developing cleaner and more energy-efficient technologies, including low mileage--high mileage cars, forgive me.

Both were asked whether they would seek to reverse the Food and Drug Administration's recent approval of the abortion drug RU-486. Mr. Bush said he did not think that the president--any president would have the authority to do that. He added, though, that he was disappointed in the decision. He said he would not make abortion in any way contingent on who his Supreme Court appointments would be. He did repeat his opposition to partial-birth abortion. Mr. Gore said he supported the approval of the abortion drug after 12 years of testing and consideration and that he would sign the ban on partial-birth abortion if there were exceptions to allow a doctor to protect the life and health of pregnant women. Both candidates said that they would not use abortion as a litmus test in selecting justices for the Supreme Court, but the vice president said that he thinks this issue very much is on the ballot at this particular point.

At one point, Governor Bush said he thought Mr. Gore would select what he called liberal judges who would use their bench to subvert the Legislature, and Mr. Gore shot back, `That's not right.'

We want to thank you for joining our coverage tonight of this debate.

(Credits given)

SIMON: I'm Scott Simon, NPR News.

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