Read the transcript:

Mr. LEHRER: All right. So on guns, somebody wants to--wants to cast a vote based on your differences, where are the differences?

Vice Pres. GORE: Well, I'm not for registration. I am for licensing by states of new handgun purchases.

Mr. LEHRER: What is that--what's that mean?

Vice Pres. GORE: A photo license ID, like--like a driver's license, for new handguns and--and, you know, the--the Los Angeles...

Mr. LEHRER: Excuse me. You would have to get the license--a photo ID to go in and before you could buy the gun?

Vice Pres. GORE: Correct.

Mr. LEHRER: All right.

Vice Pres. GORE: At--at the time.

Mr. LEHRER: And who would issue--who would issue the...

Vice Pres. GORE: The state.

Mr. LEHRER: The state.

Vice Pres. GORE: The state. I think states should--should do that for new handguns because too many criminals are getting guns. There was a recent investigation of the--of the number in Texas who--who got--who were given concealed weapons permits in spite of the fact that they--they had records and the Los Angeles Times has spent a lot of ink going into that. But I am not for doing anything that would affect hunters or sportsmen, rifles, shotguns, existing handguns. I do think that--that sensible gun safety measures are warranted now. Look, this is the year--this is in the aftermath of Columbine and Paducah and--and all of the places around our country where the nation has been shocked by these--these weapons in the hands of the wrong people. The woman who bought the guns for the two boys who did that killing at Columbine said that if she had had to--to--to--to give her name and fill out a form there, she would not have bought those guns. That conceivably could have prevented that tragedy.

Mr. LEHRER: Back to the question about the differences on gun control, what are they, Governor, from your point of view, between you and the vice president?

Gov. BUSH: Well, I'm not for--I'm not for photo licensing. But let me say something about Columbine. And it's--we've got gun laws. He says we ought to have gun-free schools. Everybody believes that. And I'm sure every state in the Union's got them. You can't carry a gun into a school. And there ought to be a consequence when you do carry a gun into a school. But Columbine spoke to a larger issue and it--it's--it's really a matter of culture. It's a culture that somewhere along the line we've begun to disrespect life. If a child can walk in and can have their heart turned dark as a result of being on the Internet and walk in and decide to take somebody else's life--so gun laws are important--no question about it--but so is loving children and, you know, character education classes and faith-based programs being a part of after-school programs. Somebody--some desperate child needs to have somebody put their arm around them and say, `We love you.' And so there's--it's a--a society that--of ours that's got to do a better job of teaching children right from wrong. And we can enforce law. But there seems to be a lot of preoccupation on--not necessarily this debate--but just in general in law, but there's a larger law, love your neighbor like you'd like to be loved yourself and that's where our society must head if we're going to be a peaceful and--and prosperous society.

Vice Pres. GORE: I--I also believe in the golden rule, and I agree with a lot of the other things that the governor has said. We do have a--a serious problem in our culture. Tipper and I have worked on the problem of violence and entertainment ained at--aimed at children. She's worked on it longer than I have, but I feel very strongly about that. And if--if--if I'm elected president, I will do something about that. But I think that we have--I think we have to start with better parenting. Bu--but I don't think that we can ignore the role played by guns. I mean the fact is that there--even though no state wants them, there are guns in some schools, and the reason it's so difficult for schools to control that is because in recent years, there has been a flood of cheap handguns that are so widely available, that kids are finding ways to get ahold of them. And I think that i--if--if you look at the situation as it exists here in the United States, compared to any other country in the world, it seems to me pretty obvious that while we respect the rights of hunters and sportsmen, we do need some commonsense gun safety steps to stem this flood of guns that are getting into the wrong hands.

Mr. LEHRER: Do...

Gov. BUSH: Yeah, no question about that. But there's--also needs to be strong enforcement of the law. Some kid who feels like they c--it doesn't matter where the gun comes from. It could be a cheap gun, expensive gun. What matters is something in this person's head says there's not going to be a consequence. So in my state, we toughen up the juvenile justice laws. We added beds. We are--we're tough. We believe in tough love. We say, `If you get caught carrying a gun, you're automatically detained.' And that's what needs to happen. And we've got laws. If laws need to be strengthened like instant background checks, tha--that--that's important.

Mr. LEHRER: New question.

Gov. BUSH: OK.

Mr. LEHRER: New question, new subject.

Gov. BUSH: As I was saying...

Mr. LEHRER: Both of you--Governor, both of you have talked much about Medicare and health care for seniors. What about the more than 40 million younger Americans who do not have health insurance right now? What would you do about that?

Gov. BUSH: Well, I've got a plan to do something about that. It's to make health care affordable and available this way. First, there's some who should be buying health care who choose not to. There's some healthy...

Mr. LEHRER: Some of the 40 million.

Gov. BUSH: Some of the healthy folks...

Mr. LEHRER: Right.

Gov. BUSH: ...healthy kids say `I'll never get sick, therefore, I'm not going to have--don't need health care right now.' For those, what I think we need to do is to develop a--an investment-type vehicle that would be an incentive for--for them to invest, like medical savings accounts, with rollover cap--capacity. In other words, you say to a youngster, `It will be in your financial interests to start saving for future illness.'

But for the working folks that do want to have health care that can't afford it, a couple of things we need to do. One, we need more community health centers. I've developed--put out money in my budget to expand community health centers all around the country. These are places where people can get primary care.

Secondly, and they're--they're good, they're very important parts of the--of the--the safety net of health care. Secondly, that you get a $2,000 rebate from the government if you're a family, $30,000 or less--it scales down as it gets higher--that you can use to purchase health care in the private markets. It's g--it'll be a huge down payment for a pretty darned good system if you allow--also allow--convince states to allow--allow states to allow the mother to match some of the children's health insurance money with it, to pool purchasing power.

And to make health care more affordable, allow business associations like the National Federation of Independent Business or the Chamber of Commerce or the National Restaurant Association to write association plans across jurisdictional lines so that small businesses have got the capacity of national pooling to drive the cost of insurance down. I think that's the very best way to go. It empowers people. It trusts people. It makes--it--and it's a practical way to--to encourage people to purchase health care insurance.

Mr. LEHRER: Vice President Gore.

Vice Pres. GORE: It's one of my top priorities, Jim, to give every single child in the United States affordable health care within the next four years. I'd like to see, eventually in this country, some form of universal health care, but I'm not for a government-run system. In fact, I'm for shrinking the size of government. I want a smaller and smarter government. I have been in charge of this reinventing government streamlining project that's reduced the size of government by more than 300,000 people in the last several years. And in--the budget plan that I've put out, according to the Los Angeles Times, again, the way these things are typically measured as a percentage of the GDP, will bring government spending down to the lowest level in 50 years. So I want to proceed carefully to cover more people.

But I think that we--we should start by greatly expanding the so-called Child Health Insurance or CHIP program, to--to--to give health insurance to every single child in this country. I think it's intolerable that we have so many millions of children without any health insurance. So it--it's one of my top priorities. Now I know that we have some disagreements on this, and I'm sorry to tell you that there--you know, there is a record here. And Texas ranks 49th out of the 50 states in health care w--in children with health care; 49th for women with health care; and 50th for families with health care. So it is a priority for me, I guarantee you. I'm not aware of any program--well, I'll just--I'll just leave it at that. I think it ought to be a top priority.

Mr. LEHRER: Governor, did vice president--are the vice president's figures correct about Texas?

Gov. BUSH: W--well, first of all, let me says he's not for a government-run health-care system. I thought that's exactly what he and Mrs. Clinton and them fought for in 1993, was a government-run health-care system that was fortunately stopped in its tracks. Secondly, we spent $4.7 billion a year on the uninsured in the state of Texas. Our--our rate of uninsured, the percentage of uninsured in Texas has gone down while the percentage of uninsured in America has gone up. Our CHIPs program got a late start because our government meets only four months out of every two years, Mr. Vice President, may come for a shock for somebody who's been in Washington for so long, but actually limited government can work in the second largest state in the Union. And therefore, Congress passes a bill after our session in 1970--97 ended, we passed enabling legislation in '99. We've signed up over 110,000 children to the CHIPs program for comparable states our size, we're--we're--we're signing them up as fast as any other state. And I--you can quote all the numbers you want, but I'm telling you we care about our people in Texas. We spend a lot of money to make sure people get health care in the state of Texas. And we're doing a better job than they are at the national level for reducing uninsured.

Mr. LEHRER: Is he right?

Vice Pres. GORE: Well, I don't know about the--the--all these percentages that he throws out, but I do know that the re--I speculate that the reason why he didn't answer your question directly as to whether my numbers were right, the facts were right about Texas ranking dead last in families with health insurance, and 49th out of 50 for both children and women, is because those facts are correct.

And a--as for why it happened, I'm no expert on the--the Texas procedures, but what my friends there tell me is that the governor opposed a measure put forward by Democrats in the Legislature to expand the number of children that would be covered. And instead, directed the money toward a tax cut, a significant part of which went to wealthy interests. He declared the need for a new tax cut for the oil companies in Texas, an emergency need. And so the money was taken away from the CHIP program. And there's a--you don't have to take my word for this. There is now a federal judge's opinion about the current management of this program ordering the state of Texas to do so--and you should read that judge's language about this. There are one poi--I believe there are 1.4 million children in Texas who do not have health insurance, 600,000 of whom--and maybe some of those have sense gotten it--but as of a year ago, 600,000 of them were actually eligible for it but they w--they couldn't sign up for it because of the barriers that they had to surmount.

Mr. LEHRER: Let's let the governor respond to that.

Gov. BUSH: Well, I--I--I...

Mr. LEHRER: Are those numbers correct? Is the--is his--are his charges correct?

Gov. BUSH: Look, I--if he's--if he's trying to allege that I'm a hard-hearted person and I don't care about children, he's absolutely wrong. We spend $4.7 billion a year in the state of Texas for uninsured people. And they get health care. Now th--it's not the most efficient way to get people health care but I want to remind you the number of uninsured in America during their watch has increased and--and so...

Mr. LEHRER: So is that...

Gov. BUSH: ...he can make any excuse he wants, but the facts are that we're reducing the number of uninsured percentage of our population and as the percentage of the population is increasing nationally. But somehow the allegation that we don't care and we're going to give money for this interest or that interest and not for children in the state of Texas is just totally absurd.

Mr. LEHRER: And--sure.

Gov. BUSH: And--and I--let me just say who the jury is. The people of Texas. There's only been one governor ever elected to back-to-back four-year terms, and that was me. And I was able to do so with a lot of Democrat votes, nearly 50 percent of the Hispanic vote, about 27 percent of the African-American vote, because people know that I'm a conservative person and a compassionate person. So we can throw all the kinds of numbers around. I'm just telling you our state comes together to do what's right. We come together both Republicans and Democrats.

Mr. LEHRER: Let me put that directly to--to you, Vice President Gore. The reason you brought this up is--is it--are you suggesting that those numbers and that record will reflect the way Go--Governor Bush will operate in this area of health insurance as president?

Vice Pres. GORE: Yes. Yes. But--but it's not a statement about his heart. I don't claim to know his heart. I think--I--I think he's a good person. I make no allegations about that. I--I believe him when he says that--that he has a good heart. I--I know enough about your story to--to admire a lot of the things that you have done as a person.

But I think it's about his priorities. And let me tell you exactly why I think that the choice he made to give a tax cut for the oil companies and others before addressing this--I mean, if--if you were the governor of a state that was dead last in--in health care for families, and all of a sudden you found yourself with the biggest surplus your state had ever had in its history, wouldn't you want to c--maybe use some of it to climb from 50th to say 45 or 40 or something or maybe better? I would. Now--but here's why it's directly relevant, Jim...

Mr. LEHRER: So...

Vice Pres. GORE: ...because by his own budget numbers, his proposals for spending on tax cuts for the wealthiest of the wealthy, are more than the new spending proposals that he has made for health care and education and national defense all combined, according to his own numbers. So it's not a question of his heart, it's--as far as I know. It's a que--it's a question of priorities and values. See, you know, in...

Mr. LEHRER: Mr.--let--let me...

Vice Pres. GORE: OK.

Mr. LEHRER: Let me just ask--let me--let me ask...

Gov. BUSH: First of all, that's simply not true, what he just said of course. And secondly, I repeat to you...

Mr. LEHRER: What i--what is not true, Governor?

Gov. BUSH: That we spent--that top 1 percent received $223 billion as opposed to $445 billion in new spending. The top w--le--let's talk about my tax plan. The top 1 percent pay--will pay one-third of all the federal income taxes, and in return get one-fifth of the benes because--benefits because most of the tax reductions go to the people at the bottom end of the economic ladder. That stands in stark contrast by the way to a man who is going to leave 50 million, 50 million Americans out of tax relief. We just have a different point of view. It's a totally different point of view. He believes only the right people ought to get tax relief. I believe everybody who pays taxes ought to get tax relief.

Let me go back to Texas, for example, for--for a minute. We pay $4.7 billion. I can't emphasize ha--to you how much--I signed a bill that puts CHIPs in place. The bill finally came out at the end of the '99 session. We're working hard to sign up children, we're doing it faster than any other--than any other state our size, comparable state. We're making really good progress. And our state cares a lot about our children. My priority is going to be the health of our citizens. These folks have had eight years to get something done in Washington, DC, on the uninsured. They have not done it. They've had eight years to get something done on Medicare and they have not got it done. And my case to the American people is if you're happy with inactivity, stay with the horse, the horse that's up there now.

Mr. LEHRER: Do...

Gov. BUSH: But if you want change, you need to get somebody who needs to know how to bring Republicans and Democrats together to get positive things done for America.

Mr. LEHRER: New question, new subject. Vice President Gore on the environment, in your 1992 book you said, quote, "We must make the rescue of our environment the central organizing principle for civilization and there must be a wrenching transformation to save the planet." Do you still feel that way?

Vice Pres. GORE: I do. I--I think that in this 21st century we will soon see the consequences of what's called global warming. There was a study just a few weeks ago suggesting that in summertime the north polar icecap will be completely gone in 50 years. Already many people see the strange weather conditions that the old-timers say they've never seen before in their lifetimes. And what's happening is the level of pollution is increasing significantly. Now here's the good news, Jim. If we take the leadership role and build the new technologies, like the new kinds of cars and trucks that Detroit is itching to--to build, then we can create millions of good new jobs by being first into the market with these new kinds of cars and trucks and other kinds of technologies.

You know, the Japanese are breathing down our necks on this. They're moving very rapidly because they know that it is a fast-growing world market. Some of these other countries, particularly in the developing world, their pollution is much worse than--than anywhere else, and their people want higher standards of living. And so they're looking for ways to satisfy their desire for--for a better life and still reduce--reduce pollution at the same time. I think that holding on to the old ways and the old argument that the environment and the economy are in conflict is--is really outdated. We have to be bold. We have to provide leadership. Now it's true that we disagree on this. Governor said that he doesn't think this problem is necessarily caused by people. He's for letting the oil companies into the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Houston's just become the--the smoggiest city in the country and Texas is number one in industrial pollution. We have a very different outlook. And I'll tell you this, I will fight for a clean environment in ways that strengthen our economy.

Mr. LEHRER: Governor.

Gov. BUSH: Well, let me start with Texas. We are a big industrial state. We--we're--reduced our industrial waste by 11 percent, we cleaned up more brown fields than any other administration in my state's history, 450 of them. Our water is cleaner now. We're working...

Mr. LEHRER: Explain what a brown field is for those who don't follow this.

Gov. BUSH: Brown field is an abandoned industrial site that just sits idle in some of our urban centers. And people are willing to invest capital and the brown fields don't want to do so for fear of lawsuit. I think we ought to have federal liability protection depending upon whether or not standards have been met. The book you mentioned that Vice President Gore wrote, he also called for taxing big--big energy taxes in order to clean up the environment and now that the energy prices are high, I guess he's not advocating those big energy taxes right now.

I believe we ought to fully fund the Land and Water Conservation Fund, to--with half the money going to states so states can make the right decisions for environmental quality. I--I think we need to have clean coal technologies. I proposed $2 billion worth. By the way, I just found out the other day, an interesting fact that there's a--there's a National Petroleum Reserve right next to Prudhoe--in Prudhoe Bay that--that your administration opened up for exploration in that pristine area. And it was a smart move because there are gas reserves up there. We need gas pipelines to bring the gas down. Gas is c--is a clean fuel that we can burn to--we need to make sure that if we decontrol our plants that there's mandatory--that the plants must conform to clean air standards.

The grandfather plants--that's what we did in Texas, no excuses. I mean, you must conform. In other words, there are practical things we can do. But it starts to work in a collaborative effort with states and local folks. You know, if you own the land, every day is Earth Day. And people care a lot about their land and care about their environment. Not all--all wisdom is in Washington, DC, on this issue.

Mr. LEHRER: Where do you see the basic difference in very simple terms--in two or three sentences--between you and the governor on--on the environment. If the voter wants to make a choice, what is it?

Vice Pres. GORE: Well, I'm really strongly committed to--to clean water and clean air and cleaning up the--the new kinds of challenges like global warming. I--he's right that I'm not in favor of energy taxes. I am in favor of tax cuts to encourage and give incentives for the quicker development of these new--new kinds of technologies, and--and let me say again, Detroit is--is raring to go on--on that. We differ on the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, as I have said. We differ on whether or not pollution controls ought to be voluntary. I don't think you can--I don't think you can get results that way. We differ on the kinds of appointments that--that we would make.

Mr. LEHRER: But you say it's a fundamental difference?

Vice Pres. GORE: I think it's a fundamental difference, and let me give you an example. He...

Mr. LEHRER: Well, hold on one second.

Vice Pres. GORE: OK. Sure.

Mr. LEHRER: I--we talked about stra--I just want to know, for somebody--'cause we're running almo--we're getting close to the end of the--end of our time here. ...(Unintelligible) somebody wanted to make--wanted to vote on the environment, how would you draw the differences, Governor? It isn't...

Gov. BUSH: Well, I--I--I don't believe in command and control out of Washington, DC. I believe Washington ought to set standards, but I don't--again, I think we ought to be collaborative at the local levels and I think we ought to work with people at the local levels. And--and I--by the way, I just want to make sure we--I can't let him just say something and not correct it.

Mr. LEHRER: All right.

Gov. BUSH: The decon--electric decontrol bill that I fought for and signed in Texas has mandatory emission standards, Mr. Vice President. That's what we ought to do at the federal level when it comes to grandfather plants for utilities.

Mr. LEHRER: Do you--do...

Gov. BUSH: But there's a di--I think there's a difference. I think--I--I think, for example, take the--when they took 40 million acres of land out of circulation without consulting local officials, I thought that was...

Mr. LEHRER: That's out in--out in the West, correct? Right.

Gov. BUSH: Out in the West, yeah. And so ...(unintelligible) on the--on the--on the logging issue. I didn't--that's not the way I would have done it. Perhaps some of that land needs to be set aside, but I certainly would have consulted with governors and elected officials before I would have acted unilaterally.

Mr. LEHRER: W--would you believe the federal government still has some new rules and new regulations and new laws to pass in the environmental area or do you think...

Gov. BUSH: Sure. Absolutely. So long as they're based upon science and they're reasonable, so long as people have input.

Mr. LEHRER: What about global warming?

Gov. BUSH: I think it's an issue that we need to take very seriously, but I don't think we know the solution to global warming yet, and I don't think we've got all the facts before we make decisions. I'll tell you one thing I'm going to do, is I'm not going to let the United States carry the burden for cleaning up the world's air like the Kyoto Treaty would have done. China and India were exempted from that treaty. I think we need to be more evenhanded as evidently 99 senators--I think it was 99 senators--sup--supported that position.

Mr. LEHRER: Global--global warming, the Senate did turn it down...

Vice Pres. GORE: Yeah, I--I think the...

Mr. LEHRER: ...99-to-nothing--99...

Vice Pres. GORE: I think the--well, that vote wasn't exactly...

Mr. LEHRER: It's a resolution.

Vice Pres. GORE: A lot of supporters of the Kyoto Treaty actually ended up voting for that because of the way it was worded. But there's no doubt there's a lot of opposition to it in the Senate. I'm not for command and control techniques either. I'm for working with the--the groups, not just with industry but also with the--the citizens groups and local communities, to control sprawl in ways that the local communities themselves come up with. But I disagree that we don't know the--the cause of global warming. I--I think that we do. W--we--it's pollution, carbon dioxide and other chemicals that are even more potent, but in smaller quantities that--that--that cause this.

Look, the world's temperature is going up, weather patterns are changing. Storms are getting more violent and unpredictable. And what are we going to tell our children? And--I'm a grandfather now. I--I want to be able to tell my grandson, when I'm in--in my later years, that I didn't turn away from--from the evidence that showed that we were--we were doing some serious harm. In--in my--in my faith tradition, it--it is--it's written in the book of Matthew, `Where--where your heart is, there is your treasure also.' And I--I believe that--that we ought to--to recognize the value to our children and grandchildren of taking steps that preserve the environment in a way that's good for them.

Gov. BUSH: Yeah, I agree. I just--I--I think there's been some--some of the scientists, I believe, Mr. Vice President, haven't they been changing their opinion a little bit on global warming. A profound scientist recently made an op--made a different--different...

Mr. LEHRER: Both--both of you now have violate...

Gov. BUSH: But the point...

Mr. LEHRER: Excuse me. Both of you have now violated your own rules. Wait. Hold that thought.

Gov. BUSH: OK.

Vice Pres. GORE: I've been trying so hard not to.

Mr. LEHRER: I know. I know. But about--you're not--under you-all's rules, you are not allowed to ask each other a question. I let you do it a moment ago.

Gov. BUSH: Twice.

Mr. LEHRER: Now you just--twice, sorry.

Gov. BUSH: OK.

Mr. LEHRER: But the one I thought I...

Vice Pres. GORE: That's an interrupt--that's an interruption, by the way.

Mr. LEHRER: That's an interruption. OK. But--and anyhow, you just did it, so now we're not quite...

Gov. BUSH: I'm sorry.

Mr. LEHRER: That's all right. It's OK.

Gov. BUSH: I apologize, Mr. Vice President. But...

Mr. LEHRER: No, you're not allowed to do that either, you see. I know. I mean--I know. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Finish your thought.

Gov. BUSH: I...

Mr. LEHRER: People pare--care about these things I've found out.

Gov. BUSH: Of course, they care about--oh, you mean the rules.

Mr. LEHRER: Right. Exactly right.

Gov. BUSH: Well...

Mr. LEHRER: Go ahead, sir.

Gov. BUSH: What the heck.

Mr. LEHRER: Yeah.

Gov. BUSH: I--of course there's a lot--I mean, look, global warming needs to be taken very seriously and I take it seriously. But science, there's a lot--the pe--there's differing opinions and before we react, I think it's best to have the full accounting, full understanding of what's taking place. And I--I think to answer your question, I think both of us care a lot about the environment. We may have different approaches. We may have different approaches in terms of how we deal with local folks. And I just cited an example of the fe--of the administration just unilaterally acting without any input. And I remember you gave a very good answer in New Hampshire about the White Mountains, about how it was important to keep the collaborative effort in place. I feel very strongly at the same place. It certainly wasn't the attitude that took place out West however.

Mr. LEHRER: New question.

Gov. BUSH: Yes.

Mr. LEHRER: Last question. For you, Governor--and this flows out some--flows somewhat out of the Boston debate. You, your running mate, your campaign officials have charged that Vice President Gore exaggerates, embellishes and stretches the facts, etc. Are you--are y--do you believe these are serious issues? This is a serious issue that the voters should use in deciding which one of you two men to vote for on November 7th?

Gov. BUSH: Well, we all make mistakes. I've been known to mangle a syllable (pronounced sy-LABLE) or two myself, you know. But--if you know what I mean. I think credibility is important. It's going important to be--for the president to be credible with Congress, important for the president to be credible with foreign nations. And yes, I think it's something that people need to consider. This is--this isn't something new. I read a report or a memo from somebody in his 1988 campaign--I forgot the fellow's name--warning then Senator Gore, to be careful about exaggerating claims. And, you know, I thought when--during his debate with Senator Bradley, saying he authored the EITC, when it didn't happen. He--I mentioned the last debate...

Mr. LEHRER: EITC?

Gov. BUSH: The earned income tax credit.

Mr. LEHRER: Right.

Gov. BUSH: Sorry.

Mr. LEHRER: That's all right.

Gov. BUSH: A lot of initials for a guy who's not from Washington, isn't it? Anyway, I--he ma--he co-sponsored McCain-Feingold, and yet he didn't. And so I think this is an issue. I think--I found it to be an issue in trying to defend my tax relief package. I thought there were some exaggerations about the numbers. But the people are going have to make up their mind on this issue. And I--I'm going to continue to defend my record and defend my po--propositions against what I think are exaggerations, exaggerations like, for example, only 5 percent of seniors receive benefits under my Medicare reform package. That's what he said the other day and that's simply not the case. And I have every right in the world to defend my record and my positions. That's what debates are about and that's what campaigns are about.

Mr. LEHRER: Vice President Gore.

Vice Pres. GORE: I got some of the details wrong last week in some of the examples that I used, Jim, and I'm sorry about that. And I--I'm going to try to do better. One of the reasons I regret it is that it--getting a detail wrong interfered several times with the point that I was trying to make. However, many days that young girl in Florida stood in her classroom, however long, even if it was only one day, doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of overcrowded classrooms in America, and we need to do something about that. There are seniors who pay more for their prescriptions than a lot of other people, more than their pets sometimes, more sometimes than people in--in foreign countries. And we need to do something about that. Not with the measure that leaves the majority of them without any real basic help until the next president's term of four years is--is--is over, but right away. And that means doing it under the Medicare program.

I--I--I can't promise that I will never get another detail wrong. I ca--I can promise you that I will try not to, and hard. But I will promise you this with all the confidence in--in--in my heart and in the world, that I will do my best, if I'm elected president, I'll work my heart out to get the big things right for the American people.

Mr. LEHRER: Does that resolve the issue, Governor?

Gov. BUSH: That's going to be up to the people, isn't it?

Mr. LEHRER: Well, it res--does it resolve it for you? I mean...

Gov. BUSH: Depends on--depends on what he says in the future in the campaign.

Mr. LEHRER: But your folks are--are--are saying some awful things, and--and you're--you're...

Gov. BUSH: I hope they're not awful things...

Mr. LEHRER: Well, I mean--excuse me.

Gov. BUSH: I think they may be using the man's own words.

Mr. LEHRER: No, no. I mean--I me--what I mean is, you calling him a serial exaggerator.

Gov. BUSH: I don't believe I've used those words.

Mr. LEHRER: No, but your campaign has.

Gov. BUSH: Maybe they have.

Mr. LEHRER: Your campaign officials have. And your campaign officials, Mr. Vice President, are now calling it's--now calling the governor a bumbler...

Gov. BUSH: Wait a minute.

Mr. LEHRER: I mean, is that--no, my point is, should this--is this...

Vice Pres. GORE: I--I don't--I--I don't use language like that and I don't think that--that we should. I think that...

Mr. LEHRER: It's in your--it's in your commercial.

Vice Pres. GORE: I understand. The--the--the--I haven't seen that.

Gov. BUSH: Yeah.

Vice Pres. GORE: In my commercial?

Mr. LEHRER: Yeah. Yeah.

Vice Pres. GORE: Well, the...

Gov. BUSH: You haven't seen the commercial?

Mr. LEHRER: And your--your...

Vice Pres. GORE: I--I think--I think that what--I--I think the point of that is that anybody would have a hard time trying to make a tax cut plan that's so large that would put us into such big deficits, that gives almost half the benefits to the wealthiest of the wealthy. I think anybody would have a hard time explaining that clearly in a way that makes sense to--to the average person.

Gov. BUSH: That's the kind of exaggeration I was just talking about.

Vice Pres. GORE: Well, I wasn't the one having trouble explaining it.

Mr. LEHRER: Gentlemen. It's time to go to the closing statements and Vice President Gore, you have two minutes.

Vice Pres. GORE: Jim, one of the issues that I would like to close with in my statement, i--is education, because it's an example of the overall approach that I think is--is important. This race is about values. It's about change. It--it's about giving choices to the American people. And education is my number one priority because I think that it's the most important, big, major change that we can bring in our country. I agree with Governor Bush that we should have new accountability, testing of students. I think that we should require states to test all students, test schools and school districts. And I think that we should go further and require teacher testing for new teachers, also.

The difference is that while my plan starts with new accountability and maintains local control, it doesn't stop there, because I want to give new choices to parents to send their kids to college with a $10,000 tax deduction for college tuition per child per year. I want to reduce the size of the classrooms in this country, for one basic reason; so that students can get more one-on-one time with teachers. And the way to do that is, first, to recruit more teachers. I have a plan in my budget to recruit 100,000 new highly qualified teachers, and to help local school districts build new schools. I think that we have to put more emphasis on early learning and pre-school.

Now here is how that connects with all the rest of what we've been talking about. If you have--if you squander the surplus on a huge tax cut that goes mostly to those at the top, then you can't make education the top priority. If the tax cut is your number one, two, three and four priority, you can't do education. You can't do both. You have to choose. I choose education and health care, the environment and retirement security. And I ask for your support.

Mr. LEHRER: Governor Bush two, minutes.

Gov. BUSH: Jim, thank you very much. Mr. Vice President, thank you very much. And I'd like to thank the folks here at Wake Forest. I want to thank you all for listening. I'm running to get some things done for America. There's too many issues left unresolved. There's been too much finger-pointing and too much name-calling in Washington, DC. I'd like to unite this country to get an agenda done that will speak to the hopes and aspirations of the future. I want to have an education system that sets high standards, local control of schools, and strong accountability. No child should be left behind in America.

I want to make sure we rebuild our military to keep the peace. I--I worry about morale in today's military. Warning signs are clear it's time to have a new commander in chief who will rebuild the military, pay our men and women more and make sure they're housed better and have a focused mission for our military.

Once and for all I want to do something about Medicare. The issue's been--been too long on the table because it's been a political issue. It's time to bring folks together to say that all seniors get prescription drug coverage. I want to do something about Social Security. It's an important priority because now is the time to act, and we're going to say to our seniors, our promises we made to you will be promises kept. But younger workers--in order to make sure the system exists tomorrow, younger workers ought to be able to take some of your own money and invest it in safe securities to get a better rate of return on that money. And finally, I do believe in tax relief. I believe we can set our priorities. I don't believe, like the vice president does, in--in huge government. I believe in limited government and by having a limited government and a focused government, we can send some of the money back to the people that pay the bills. I want to have a tax relief for all people who pay the bills in America because I think you can spend your money more wisely than the federal government can. Thank you for listening. I'm asking for your vote. And God bless.

Mr. LEHRER: And we will return next Tuesday night, October 17th, from Washington University in St. Louis, for the third and final debate. Thank you, Vice President Gore, Governor Bush. See you next week.

For now, from Winston-Salem, I'm Jim Lehrer, thank you and good night.

Gov. BUSH: Good night.

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