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Interview: Edyar Ablan, Jeffrey Simpson and Endy Bayuni Discuss How a Potential U.S. Military Strike Against Iraq is Being Covered by the Media in Their Respective Countries
All Things Considered: August 26, 2002
 Call to Strike
JACKI LYDEN, host:
Two possible US military moves on another front now: Iraq and Saddam Hussein. To say that the rest of the world does not see eye to eye with the US is putting it mildly. Russia and China have made clear their opposition to a pre-emptive strike to overthrow Saddam Hussein. So have United States allies Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. In Europe, only Britain may back the US. We wanted to check in with a few countries we haven't heard as much from to get a sense of how the debate is playing out elsewhere.
First up, Venezuela. Oil production is the country's biggest industry. Venezuela's economy would be directly affected by a US attack on Iraq. That's something people there are already planning for, Edymar Ablan told us. She's a reporter for the newspaper El Universal in Caracas, and she says Venezuelans see an attack as inevitable.
Ms. EDYMAR ABLAN (Reporter, El Universal): It's like nobody's questioning whether there's going to be a war or not. It's like everybody feels there is going to be a war, and the question is when.
LYDEN: What do Venezuelans think about this? Venezuela is an oil-producing country. The economy has had problems.
Ms. ABLAN: First of all, I don't think that there is much concern in Venezuela about the coming war because we have a major economic recession here. However, some international analysts think that there is going to be an impact because there is going to be a raise in the oil prices that would benefit Venezuela. But also, they think that if there is actually a rise in the oil prices, it won't be for long. Venezuela has been saying they will maintain the production whether there is an attack or not.
LYDEN: Venezuela, as you say, has been through a major currency devaluation in February, deep economic depression, a concern for pensions. So you're saying that that has really overlaid concern about what seems a far-off war?
Ms. ABLAN: Yes. People here are not concerned about what's happening in other countries when they are worried about putting bread on the table. We also had a political crisis here last April, and they're still talking about that. So there is more worry about the internal situation.
LYDEN: Mm-hmm. And yet, certainly, Edymar, if a war were launched against Iraq and there was more volatility in international markets, I would think this would be of concern to Venezuelans.
Ms. ABLAN: Yes, most likely it would be if it affects the oil prices and Venezuela receives more money in a way that would be positive for Venezuela. But also, the Venezuelan relations with Washington haven't been very good lately, so I thought it may also be good for the Venezuelan relations, and especially since we have our new ambassador, Bernardo Alvarez, who is a specialist in the oil field. So, of course, if there is a war and the US needs additional supplies from Venezuela, I think that would be positive for the relations between both countries.
LYDEN: Edymar Ablan is a reporter for the Venezuelan newspaper El Universal. She joined us from her office in Caracas. Edymar, thanks very much for speaking with us.
Ms. ABLAN: Thank you, Jacki.
LYDEN: To Canada now, a US ally, of course, in the recent fighting in Afghanistan. Canadians would not be so willing, though, to fight alongside Americans in Iraq. That's the view of Jeffrey Simpson, national affairs columnist for the Canadian daily the Globe and Mail.
Mr. JEFFREY SIMPSON (National Affairs Columnist, Globe and Mail): There would be no support militarily from Canada, even were it to be asked, and the Canadian government would be extremely hard-pressed to give political support to an American initiative. Canadian governments don't like, as a matter of policy or practice, to overtly criticize the United States. But I don't think there'd be any political support forthcoming from Canada.
LYDEN: Would there be any move the US government might make that would foster a more receptive attitude amongst the government, for example, consulting the UN?
Mr. SIMPSON: If the United States were to go to the United Nations and say, `Look, we're doing this or contemplating taking military action because Iraq has not fulfilled United Nations resolutions,' then you might see the government of Canada change its position. But if the United States chooses to act unilaterally, which it appears the Bush administration wants to do, then I doubt very much that it would have any political support from Canada or, indeed, from any other significant US ally.
LYDEN: Now as newspaper editors write about this across the spectrum of Canadian papers, do you notice a kind of monolithic opinion or are there some who are more receptive than others?
Mr. SIMPSON: We have an element of the press that is quite conservative. The National Post--Dare I speak of my competitive newspaper?--but the National Post pretty much lines up ready-I-ready(ph) with the United States and runs a whole great string of right-wing American columnists on its editorial pages: Charles Krauthammer, George Will and various people from obscure think tanks on the far right in the United States. So they're ready-I-ready with the United States on this and on all other matters. And there are a few other people with voices in the Canadian written media who espouse the same view. But this administration seems to believe that the right course of action is to determine: What is America's interest, period? And then 'You're either on one side of the line or you're on the other side of the line, and we don't, frankly, much care where you are. We'd like to have you with us, but if you're not, well, c'est la vie.'
LYDEN: Jeffrey Simpson is national affairs columnist with the Toronto Globe and Mail. He joined us from Ottawa, Ontario. Thanks very much, Mr. Simpson.
Mr. SIMPSON: Thank you.
LYDEN: On the other side of the globe, we reached Endy Bayuni, deputy chief editor of the Jakarta Post. Indonesia is home to the world's largest Muslim population, and according to Bayuni, that has greatly influenced the way the Iraq story is playing there.
Mr. ENDY BAYUNI (Deputy Chief Editor, Jakarta Post): Every time there's controversy surrounding the Middle East countries, there will be some reaction or response from Islamic organizations in the country. And therefore, I've seen there's a lot of solidarity among the Muslim organizations in the country towards the brothers and sisters in Iraq.
LYDEN: If the United States should go ahead with this attack, has there been any discussion in your newspapers about what the impact that might be on countries that are Muslim, such as yours?
Mr. BAYUNI: Yes, definitely. I think there will be many anti-American protests outside the embassy, outside large American companies operating in the country. We saw this happen last year when the US started the bombing against Afghanistan. We this about 10 years ago at the start of the first Gulf War.
LYDEN: Have there been any demonstrations thus far against US intentions on Iraq?
Mr. BAYUNI: We have not seen any demonstrations outside the American Embassy, but there have been rallies inside mosques, inside some universities calling on United States not to push ahead with its plan to attack Iraq.
LYDEN: And what have newspaper editorials called for by way of making some kind of appeal to US policy-makers?
Mr. BAYUNI: Well, I think most of the newspapers are opposed to the idea of an attack on Iraq because we don't regard Saddam Hussein as a hero. He's not exactly a role model for an Islamic leader. I think the concern is mostly about the likely casualties among the civilian Iraqis. And I think that was also the same concern that was expressed when the United States began bombing Afghanistan. There was not much sympathy towards the Taliban, but there was a lot of sympathy towards the civilian people in Afghanistan. So the same thing now is being argued here by the media that, you know, United States have to take into account possible heavy casualties among the civilians in Iraq.
LYDEN: And how is the Bush administration itself being viewed now in Indonesia?
Mr. BAYUNI: When Mr. Bush began the war against terror last year, he managed to build a coalition to support his cause, and Indonesia was one of the first countries to join that campaign. But this time on Iraq, it seems that Mr. Bush is planning to go it alone and going to ignore international public opinion. And I think that is very disturbing.
LYDEN: Thank you very much, Mr. Bayuni.
Mr. BAYUNI: Thank you ...(unintelligible).
LYDEN: Endy Bayuni is the deputy chief editor of the Jakarta Post. He joined us on the telephone from his home in Jakarta.
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