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Interview; Andy Kohut Discusses the Results of the Pew Research Center's New 'Views of a Changing World' Poll
All Things Considered: June 3, 2003
Poll: U.S.-Led War in Iraq Widens Rift with Europe
MELISSA BLOCK, host:
A new international poll conducted by the Pew Research Center for The People & The Press finds that the war in Iraq has led to a decidedly less favorable view of the United States, and it's also caused substantial erosion of confidence in the United Nations. The poll of 16,000 people taken in 20 countries, as well as the Palestinian Authority, in May also measures expectations around the world for peace in the Middle East. Joining us now to discuss some of the results is Andy Kohut, director of the Pew Center.
Welcome back to the program.
Mr. ANDY KOHUT (Director, Pew Research Center for The People & The Press): I'm happy to be here.
BLOCK: Opinion of the United States before the war that you measured was also substantially unfavorable. What's new now?
Mr. KOHUT: Well, what's new is, opinions are a little more favorable than they were just before the war when anti-war sentiment had hit a high point. But they're down over a year ago, and over a year ago, they were down over two years ago. The American image is pretty low at this point. I'll give you just a few numbers. In Germany, before 2001, State Department surveys found 78 percent of Germans having a favorable opinion of the United States, 61 percent a year ago, 45 percent in the current poll. In Brazil, 56 percent two years ago, 52 percent last year, 34 percent today. And it goes on and on.
BLOCK: And huge unfavorables off the charts in Jordan and the Palestinian Authority, also in other Muslim countries, Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria. Does that represent a shift?
Mr. KOHUT: The bottom has fallen out of support for the United States in the Muslim world, and hostilities have deepened and they've widened. They've widened in the sense that last year, we mostly found intense dislike of the United States in the Mideast in the region of conflict. Now we find it worldwide among Muslims, so we don't have a regional problem with Muslims. We now have a global problem with Muslims, or they have a problem with us.
BLOCK: Is there a flip side of that coin with our allies, Britain, Israel? Is there more optimism or more favorable view there?
Mr. KOHUT: Well, there's some more support for the United States in Britain. It's gone up to 70 percent. But even in Britain, we're below where we were two years ago, when 83 percent of the Brits had a favorable view of us. And Israel is our strongest backer, and we still get, you know, a good backing from the Kuwaitis. But the Muslim world generally is inflamed and frightened. And the most scary findings in this survey, if I can editorialize, is the large numbers of Muslims who have favorable views of Osama bin Laden, 71 percent of the Palestinians, solid majorities in Indonesia, Morocco and Jordan.
BLOCK: You mentioned Morocco, and we should note that the poll was taken before the most recent terrorist attacks in Morocco that have been attributed to al-Qaeda.
Mr. KOHUT: That's right.
BLOCK: I was curious to see the results of the question on whether people favor or oppose the US war on terrorism, which also seemed to be going down. Less support for the war on terrorism.
Mr. KOHUT: Majorities in most non-Muslim publics still favor the US-led war on terrorism, but they're smaller majorities. They're not at the 75 percent level. They're 50 and 60 percent in most places.
BLOCK: Let's turn to people's outlook on peace in the Middle East. Fairly optimistic view, it looks like, in Europe and the United States and Israel, but not in Muslim countries.
Mr. KOHUT: Well, around the world and outside of the Muslim world, there's the hope that somehow the state of Israel can coexist with the Palestinian people having their needs met and fulfilled, but that's not the case in the Muslim world. Overwhelmingly in every Muslim public except one, we found people saying, `No, Israel can't coexist with Palestinian rights.' The exception were the Arabs who we interviewed in Israel.
BLOCK: You also have a question: Does the United States favor Israel over the Palestinians too much? Nearly all the populations said, `Yes.' And I was struck by the fact that nearly half of Israelis agree with that, that they say the US does favor Israel over the Palestinians.
Mr. KOHUT: I was surprised by that one, too. It's only Americans who think that our policies are fair; however, both Americans and Israelis who think that the United States is a force for stability in the region. Europeans tend to be divided, and Muslims think the opposite.
BLOCK: If you look broadly at the pattern of these various questions that you've asked about the war on terrorism, the war in Iraq, peace in the Middle East, are you seeing a divide between how the United States and most of Europe views what's going on in the world, and the rest of the world, how they see the same situation?
Mr. KOHUT: Well, not only are we seeing a divide when we look at the survey, but when we ask our European allies, they say, `We want a less close relationship in terms of security and diplomacy with the United States.' Seventy-two percent of the French feel that way, majorities of the Germans, and those percentages have been going up. Even in America, though, Americans, now only a half say we should have a close relationship with Europe. It was 62 percent a year ago. So relationships between friends are quite strained. I think that would be the minimum characterization.
BLOCK: Andy Kohut, thanks for coming in.
Mr. KOHUT: You're welcome.
BLOCK: Andy Kohut directs the Pew Research Center for The People & The Press. Their report, "Views of a Changing World," was released today.
ROBERT SIEGEL (Host): And the full results of the Pew poll on global attitudes are on our Web site, npr.org.
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