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INTERVIEW: PROFESSOR RASHID KHALIDI DISCUSSES THE HAMAS TERRORIST ORGANIZATION
All Things Considered: June 13, 2003
Hamas
MICHELE NORRIS, host:
It's been an awful week in the Middle East. A cycle of attacks and counterattacks has left dozens dead. That on the heels of President Bush's summit last week in Jordan, an event many hoped would breathe new life into the peace process. Yesterday, the White House blamed the breakdown in progress squarely on one camp. `The issue is not Israel. The issue is not the Palestinian Authority,' said spokesman Ari Fleischer. `The issue,' he said, `is Hamas.' Hamas is officially labeled a foreign terrorist organization by the State Department, but the group remains popular among many Palestinians who say they rely upon the schools, hospitals and other public works that Hamas runs. To find out more about Hamas, we called on Professor Rashid Khalidi at the University of Chicago.
Professor RASHID KHALIDI (University of Chicago): Hamas was founded in 1987. It is rooted in a group called the Muslim Brotherhood. Its stated goal is the establishment of an Islamic state in the entirety of Palestine, so replacing Israel. And its day-to-day objective is the occupation and settlement process that is engulfing more and more of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
NORRIS: Beyond the hard-core members, how large and how influential is Hamas, and is that influence growing beyond the core group and spreading to Palestinians who may be increasingly frustrated with what seems to be a never-ending cycle of violence in the region?
Prof. KHALIDI: Their support waxes and wanes, and it's very important to realize how fickle Palestinian public opinion is. I would say their core support, if you read the polls very carefully over the past 10 years, is in the range of 8 to 12 percent. But there's a huge swing vote. There are a lot of people who will come to support Hamas out of anger or despair, and whom they are able to appeal to in certain circumstances, when one of their leaders is attacked, for example, or when there's a particularly gruesome series of Israeli operations which kill a particularly large number of civilians.
NORRIS: They're based in an area that's known for poverty and strife, and yet they have what is estimated to be a $30 million annual budget. Where do they get their funding?
Prof. KHALIDI: Well, I wouldn't trust a number like that. It may be true. It may not be. The people who know don't say, and the people who say are saying for reasons that you have to question. But they have clearly considerable resources, as is shown by the range of social welfare programs that they operate. That is really what they need the money for most. The attacks that they carry out can be done on a shoestring in terms of cost. What they really need money for, and what their budget mainly goes on is the network of clinics and day-care centers and rehabilitation centers and so forth, which are one of the key elements in their popularity.
NORRIS: Although they're popular with the Palestinians, what is their relationship like with the leaders of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas and Yasser Arafat?
Prof. KHALIDI: They are now the prime rivals for leadership of the Palestinian people to the traditional Fatah-based PLO-PA leadership of Arafat, Abu Mazen and so forth. That is really their main objective, to take over control of the Palestinian polity from that old Fatah-based PLO-PA leadership.
NORRIS: The suicide bombing this week in particular, I'm wondering if that in some way shows--is a signal of their growing influence. The suicide bomber that was involved in the bus bombing, his family expressed a great deal of surprise at his actions. They said that he wasn't officially a member of Hamas. He didn't play on one of the soccer teams, didn't participate in any of their programs, yet quite obviously embraced their cause.
Prof. KHALIDI: That's hard to say. I would guess that in an environment where so many people are being killed on the Palestinian side, it probably is easier for Hamas to gain recruits and supporters. My sense, in the brief time I was there at the end of May and the beginning of June, was that actually people were beginning to be hopeful, and that they might have been losing a bit of support. These things can change very, very quickly. So I wouldn't lend too, too much credence to that. I think that the basic realities, though, remain the same. As long as occupation continues, and as long as settlement expands, you're going to have resistance in whatever grotesque or unpleasant or barbaric, even, forms that may take.
NORRIS: Rashid Khalidi, professor of history at the University of Chicago, thank you so much for joining us.
Prof. KHALIDI: You're welcome.
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