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Interview: Secretary Colin Powell Discusses The Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Scandal
Morning Edition: May 11, 2004
Powell: Prisoner Abuse Scandal 'Could Get Worse'
RENEE MONTAGNE, host:
Secretary of State Colin Powell was among those who joined President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld at the Pentagon yesterday for the briefing about the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. Afterwards, Secretary Powell spoke with NPR senior correspondent Juan Williams.
JUAN WILLIAMS reporting:
That briefing included a review of a dozen pictures and videotapes not yet made public that reportedly show US troops further abusing Iraqi prisoners. I asked Secretary Powell if he thinks the scandal will get worse.
Secretary COLIN POWELL (State Department): It's a disaster for us to be seen conducting these kinds of terrible acts against people who we were responsible for. We were responsible for their care. But at the same time, we have to put it in context because tens upon tens of thousands of our young men and women over in Iraq and in Afghanistan and elsewhere around the world are building and helping people to a better life and doing all kinds of great work, and it's just a shame that the vividness of these pictures and the heinous nature of these acts have give us such a black eye.
WILLIAMS: Mr. Secretary, but is it going to get worse? Did you see any evidence? Did you hear anything from...
Sec. POWELL: As Secretary Rumsfeld had said there may be more things coming out, and so it could get worse before it gets better, but it will get better. I just don't know what tomorrow will bring. But this is not over yet.
WILLIAMS: The International Red Cross president Jakob Kellenberger said he met with you as well as National Security Adviser Rice and Deputy Defense Secretary Wolfowitz about the prisoner abuse situation as far back as January. Is that true?
Sec. POWELL: Yes. We meet with Mr. Kellenberger every time he comes to town, and as you know, Juan, the way they work is when they do their inquiries, they take what they find directly to the command involved in the field, and then subsequently they will brief up the chain. And I think the Pentagon is now looking at all of the information that the ICRC has provided to us over the last year or so to see which findings they presented we did respond to and which ones have not been responded to yet.
WILLIAMS: In terms of diplomatic efforts, what kind of backlash are you seeing around the world in response to these pictures, especially from Arab diplomats?
Sec. POWELL: They're outraged, and there's a serious backlash. They are outraged. We presented ourselves as a value-based country, and we are, and so when they see this kind of activity taking place, it causes a tremendous response out in the region. I think Americans are as outraged by these pictures as are our friends, and I'm going to be going to the Middle East this weekend to attend a conference in Jordan where I'll have a chance to talk with many, many Arab leaders and try to put this in some context and perspective.
WILLIAMS: Mr. Secretary, specifically, though, who has called you and what have they said?
Sec. POWELL: Well, I would not want to go down the list of who I've spoken to, but I've spoken to the Saudis, I've spoken to the Jordanians, King Abdullah was here the other day, and all of them have made it clear that this is having a very negative impact in their countries. I think what we have to show our friends in the Arab world and show the American people and show the men and women of the armed forces is that when this behavior such as this occurs, which is so inconsistent with our value system, with our moral standards and with what is expected of our men and women in uniform, justice will be served and people will be held to account.
WILLIAMS: Have you spoken with President Bush about whether top officials at the Pentagon should step down?
Sec. POWELL: No, this is not anything we're talking about. This is a difficult situation for the leaders of the Pentagon. Secretary Rumsfeld's got a tough job. He's doing it very, very well. And let him get on with the investigations and let's see where they take us.
WILLIAMS: Mr. Secretary, does the administration still support Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to withdraw from the Gaza Strip?
Sec. POWELL: Yes. We think it's a very innovative idea. He ran into some problems with his own party, the Likud Party, but he is still committed to a Gaza withdrawal, and so are we. It was very controversial when we announced our support of this idea, but we have reinforced to all of our friends since then that the United State remains committed to a two-state solution, Israel and Palestine, and the final status issues with respect to those two states have to be resolved by the two parties, the Palestinians and the Israelis, in negotiations with each other. The end of the day, if you're going to have peace between these two states, which is what we're working for, they must agree on all these final status issues and what the terms of that peace will be.
WILLIAMS: Secretary of State Colin Powell, thank you so much for joining us.
Sec. POWELL: Thank you, Juan.
WILLIAMS: Juan Williams, NPR News, Washington.
MONTAGNE: A longer version of that interview can be found at npr.org.
The time is 19 minutes past the hour.
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