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Analysis: Recommended Reading List on Iraq and the Current Situation There
 Iraq Reading List
NEAL CONAN, host:
This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington.
A lot of people have their minds made up on the crisis with Iraq but a lot more want to know where to turn now for good information on the history, geography, politics and the culture of Iraq and much as we all admire the medium of radio, the printed word offers depth and range and detail; pictures and maps also provide good information. But there are an awful lot of choices in your favorite library or bookstore. So where to start.
Today we've invited people who think and write about the area to recommend a reading list on Iraq and the current situation and we also want to hear from you. What are you reading and what have you read that's given you a better insight into the country of Iraq, the culture and the various factors that have led us to this point in history.
At the end of the hour, we'll have compiled an Iraq reading list which should be available later today on our Web site. You can just go to www.npr.org and click on TALK OF THE NATION. So join the conversation. Our number here in Washington is (800) 989-8255. That's (800) 989-TALK. And our e-mail address is totn@npr.org.
Joining us first is David Fromkin, a professor of history at Boston University. He's the author of "A Peace to End All Peace," which tells the history of the modern Middle East. And he joins us from his home in New York City.
Good to have you back on TALK OF THE NATION, Professor.
Professor DAVID FROMKIN (Boston University; Author, "A Peace to End All Peace"): Thank you.
CONAN: We wanted to start with you because before we can talk about today's situation, it's vital to get information about what's led up to it. If you had to pick one or two historical books or events or facts that would put today's situation into context, what would they be?
Prof. FROMKIN: Well, it sounds egotistical but I'd begin with my own "A Peace to End All Peace," because it tells the story of how the modern Middle East, including Iraq, came into being and why the decisions were made at the time that led to the creation of Iraq and the creation of the Middle East we have today.
CONAN: And while that may sound egotistical, I have to say that a lot of the people we contacted also put your book at the top of their list. So it's there at the top of our list, too.
Prof. FROMKIN: In large part, Iraq was shaped in the early 1920s by a remarkable English woman named Gertrude Bell. There have been a number of biographies of Gertrude Bell. The one I like best is by a man named H.V.F. Winstone--W-I-N-S-T-O-N-E. Then there is a moment...
CONAN: But before you go on to that, tell us a little bit about that book and why you think it's so important.
Prof. FROMKIN: Well, because there are people who learn best by thinking of issues in terms of personality, of a given human being and looking at it through that person's eyes. And Gertrude Bell was a British official who was in large part in charge of shaping the areas which we now call Iraq. She designed this state; others helped of course, but she played a major role. And it seemed to me that many people might enjoy learning about how Iraq came into being in terms of a personality. And that--why, any biography of Gertrude Bell is fine. I picked the one by Winstone because it seemed to me the one that has the most information.
CONAN: Mm-hmm. OK. Well, go on then.
Prof. FROMKIN: There's a marvelous book by a man named J.B. Kelly called "Arabia, the Gulf, and the West." And it's a book from before the Gulf War and yet with all the issues leading up to it. It focuses on all oil-related issues and on the tension between Iraq and Kuwait and the history of why Iraq wanted to come after Kuwait, which is, of course, what started the Gulf War and therefore leads to today. It's a book that--it's a thick book full of facts, but written by a man who had very much firsthand knowledge of everything. A very authentic book.
CONAN: Now both of these books were published more than 20 years ago. Are they still in print, do you know?
Prof. FROMKIN: I don't know. But you can certainly get them at your public library.
CONAN: OK.
Prof. FROMKIN: Two more I'd especially recommend for background. Fouad Ajami--A-J-A-M-I--wrote a book about five years ago called "The Dream Palace of the Arabs" in which he discusses the intellectual world of Arab nationalism out of which such movements as the Ba'ath movement, for example, of Saddam Hussein emerged. The paradoxes, the problems, the difficulties and such of Arab nationalism in the modern world are there and Fouad Ajami writes, as always, beautifully. Another important book that's about to come out, it's scheduled for publication next month, is Bernard Lewis' "The Crisis of Islam," which deals with the clash of Islam in the West, which of course is very much at issue not merely in Iraq but in our war against terrorism. These are all, I think, fascinating books.
CONAN: Have you had a chance to read Professor Lewis' new book?
Prof. FROMKIN: I've had a chance just to look at it. I just received a pre-publication copy.
CONAN: Mm-hmm. And he has written widely on this area and these issues before.
Prof. FROMKIN: Yes, he has. He's a great expert.
CONAN: Our phone number again is (800) 989-8255. That's (800) 989-TALK. Our e-mail address is totn@npr.org.
David Fromkin is with us at the moment. We're going to be joined by others later. His suggestions, yours and theirs will all be compiled on a list that's going to be available later today on our Web site at npr.org. But let's go to a caller and get another suggestion and we'll begin with Alex who's with us from San Francisco.
ALEX (Caller): Yes. I'd like to recommend three books. The first book is by Asad Abukhalil, The spelling of the last name is A-B-U-K-H-A-L-I-L. And the first name is A-S-A-D; Asad Abukhalil. It's "Bin Laden, Islam, and America's New `War on Terrorism'." And the second book I would like to recommend is by the well-known journalist Norman Solomon and it's called "Target Iraq: What The News Media Don't Tell You." And finally, the third book I would like to recommend is Phyllis Bennis--that's B-E-N-N-I-S, "Before & After US"--I'm sorry, "Before & After: US Foreign Policy and the September 11th Crisis."
And I would like to say, you know, the authors just recommended by the gentleman, Fouad Ajami, Thomas Friedman, Bernard Lewis, these are all...
CONAN: He didn't mention...
ALEX: I'm sorry?
CONAN: He didn't mention Thomas Friedman I don't think.
ALEX: Oh, OK. Well, I'll mention Thomas Friedman. You know, Thomas Friedman is practically a general in the Israeli military and Fouad Ajami I consider him an anti-Arab Arab and him along with Bernard Lewis, I really consider these people American nationalist propaganda. And it really shows how political the Pulitzer Prize must be for Thomas Friedman to be able to get one because when he was on "Oprah Winfrey" with Jessica Tuchman Matthews, the Carnegie Endowment, she just really trounced him. And even Oprah had to say to Thomas Friedman, `Thomas, the day before you sounded so pro-war and now you've changed your--you've almost changed your mind. You've backed down so much.' So this shows what happens when Thomas Friedman gets real opposition. Thank you very much.
CONAN: Well, maybe--thanks very much for the call. Any response to those suggestions, David Fromkin?
Prof. FROMKIN: No. None at all.
CONAN: OK.
Prof. FROMKIN: But the more people read the better it is.
CONAN: The more people read the better it is. Well, thank you very much for joining us today. We really appreciate it.
Prof. FROMKIN: Thank you. Bye.
CONAN: David Fromkin is a professor of history at Boston University. He's the author of "A Peace to End All Peace," which tells the history of the modern Middle East.
And joining us now is someone who's read more books on the geopolitics of the region than anyone probably should, Mark Strauss is senior editor of Foreign Policy magazine. He's with us from his office in Washington, DC.
And thanks for joining us on the program.
Mr. MARK STRAUSS (Senior Editor, Foreign Policy): Oh, my pleasure.
CONAN: Let me ask you first, what have you read recently that you thought was particularly insightful?
Mr. STRAUSS: Well, I think something I've read recently which was "The War Over Iraq: Saddam's Tyranny and America's Mission." What makes the book interesting, it's by William Kristol who's the editor of the very conservative magazine New Republic, and by Lawrence Kaplan who is the senior editor at the more liberal--I'm sorry, Kristol is at The Weekly Standard and Kaplan is at The New Republic. I mean, the reason why I just recommend it is that it is perhaps the most concise and clearly written articulation of the argument in favor of war in Iraq. And I think it's even more articulate and directly to the point than a lot--what you hear from the Bush administration itself. And...
CONAN: So if you're looking for a consolidation of the arguments on either side today, that might be as good a place as any?
Mr. STRAUSS: Absolutely. I mean, if you're looking for--whether you agree with war or are against war, if you're looking for a very concise 150-page explanation of all the reasons we should go to war from both a liberal and conservative perspective, you know, I think that's a very good book to start with.
CONAN: OK. Any others?
Mr. STRAUSS: Let's see. Well, I can't, you know, help but, you know, second, you know, Fromkin's own recommendation and that is Fromkin's own book which is "A Peace to End All Peace: The Falldown of an Empire(ph)." In...
CONAN: Humility prevented him from explaining exactly why it was so important. If you would go ahead.
Mr. STRAUSS: Oh, sure. I mean, first of all, I mean, it's one of the best histories of the region I've ever seen. And what he does is he examines in painstaking detail the various personalities and debates that went into redrawing the map of the modern Middle East. And a lot of people to this day, you know, forget that Iraq--you know, it was basically a Frankenstein creation. It was stitched together from various pieces of the old Ottoman empire. It was done so by the British because of their own like empirical interest because they wanted to secure the route to India and control the strategic oil reserves. And now we're stuck, you know, with a country which is basically, you know, divided between Kurds, Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims. And we're dealing with the consequences of, you know, the way the British drew the map of the Middle East today.
And I also think there are a lot of echoes in Fromkin's book, you know, about current events because the one thing which comes out of the book when I read it is the complete hubris--the perils of hubris of the British who had very little knowledge about the region and felt they could impose sort of a new political order. And I think that, you know, we see shades of the hubris today when people talk about remaking the Middle East and creating a new era. And I think that, you know, for those two reasons, both the history and the lesson of history, it's well worth reading.
CONAN: Well, let's go now to Jamie who's on the line with us from Davidson, North Carolina.
JAMIE (Caller): Hey. Well, I was just going to call--I'm in a politics of the Middle East class right now and we are in the middle of Fromkin's book and I would definitely recommend that. We're also reading a book called "The Reckoning" by Sandra Mackey and it's about the legacy of Saddam Hussein. It starts earlier than Saddam, though, and goes into some good general detail about the region, too. A little bit about Nazarists(ph) and things like that and how it tied into Iraq. But I think it's a good brief summary of the last century in Iraq and leading up to the Persian Gulf War.
CONAN: OK. And what do you think you're learning from these books, Jamie?
JAMIE: Well, I'm learning a ton. I went into the course pretty naive about the region. I had no idea, you know, at the end of World War I what went on over there and how the lines and boundaries were really just drawn up in the sand and you see the resentment that must exist toward the Western countries for really imposing people like Faisal and rulers throughout the region. It's pretty fascinating stuff.
CONAN: OK. Well, thanks very much.
JAMIE: Thanks.
CONAN: Let's see if we can get another caller in before the break. Ryan joins us from Denver.
RYAN (Caller): Hi, Neal. How are you?
CONAN: OK.
RYAN: Neal, I just would like to counter what your first caller, I believe, Alex, said about Thomas L. Friedman. I find Mr. Friedman's articles to be a very concise way for people who don't have much time to gain a lot of information and both sides of the debate on the Iraq issue. I was an Islamic studies major in college so originally I thought that Thomas L. Friedman was a little bit, you know, on the other side. But now after reading his latest book, "Longitudes and Attitudes," and every article that he's published in the last few years, I have to say that he's a pretty fair arbiter of a lot of the things that have been happening in the US government in relationship to Iraq.
CONAN: Mark Strauss, I'm sure you've had an opportunity to read Mr. Friedman's work.
Mr. STRAUSS: Yeah. No, I'd agree with that assessment. I think that there's a lot to be gained from Tom Friedman's columns. I don't always agree with them, but I think they're often very insightful.
CONAN: Ryan...
RYAN: Exactly. Thank you.
CONAN: ...thanks very much. Appreciate the phone call.
RYAN: Thank you. Bye.
CONAN: We're compiling an Iraq reading list this hour with the help of our guests and, of course, with you. What have you read that's helped you better understand the country, the politics and the culture of Iraq? We're taking your calls at (800) 989-8255. That's (800) 989-TALK. Or send us e-mail. The address: totn@npr.org.
I'm Neal Conan. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.
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CONAN: This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Neal Conan in Washington.
Later this hour we'll get an update on the diplomatic discussions among the UN Security Council members. But first, we're talking about what to read to better understand Iraq and how that country evolved and how the situation that we're in evolved. What are you reading to inform yourself? Call us with your suggestions at (800) 989-TALK. Our e-mail address is totn@npr.org. You can find the list compiled on our Web site later today. Just go to npr.org and click on TALK OF THE NATION.
Still with us is Mark Strauss, senior editor of Foreign Policy magazine. And we have an e-mail from Sasere Chang(ph) of Minneapolis who writes: `I would recommend Americans read "Black Hawk Down" because even though it isn't about Iraq, it's a great description of what happened the last time American troops tried to take out a strong man entrenched in an urban area. It also hits upon the perils of peacekeeping, the difficulty of maintaining support among a population we think we're helping and the danger of military action when we don't have the full support of our allies.' So that's one of the books that people are talking about.
Joining us now is Mike Edwards who has suggestions on how better to understand geography which can lead to a better understanding of the dynamics of a country. Mike Edwards is a contributing writer for National Geographic. He's been to Iraq, written about it. And his most recent article appeared in the February issue of National Geographic magazine. He's on the phone with us from his home here in Washington.
And it's good of you to join us today.
Mr. MIKE EDWARDS (National Geographic): Hi, Neal.
CONAN: One of the suggestions--one of the questions you say you often get is from people who say: `Where do people live in Iraq?'
Mr. EDWARDS: You know, one of the things that's interesting about Iraq is this is really an urban population. Iraq is about the size of California but people are really clustered in cities. Two-thirds of the people are considered to be urban, mostly along the Tigris and the Euphrates because of the water situation. If you look at a population distribution map of Iraq, the whole western half of the country is virtually empty and yet here's a country with 24 million people, but five million of those people live in Baghdad, 20 percent of the population.
CONAN: What is that western part of the country look like?
Mr. EDWARDS: Desert. Now and then a tree every 10 miles or so. That's my memory of it. Maybe every 15 to 20 miles a camel. Just nothing there. Just nothing there. If you look at the rivers, it's quite a different situation because cities are large, well developed. Mosul at the north is a very interesting old city, has large Christian population. Basra in the south is Shia predominantly, that was once the port for--no, the Persian Gulf still is the port for Iraq. But...
CONAN: Shattered during the Iran-Iraq war...
Mr. EDWARDS: Yes.
CONAN: ...bombed heavily during the first Gulf War as well.
Mr. EDWARDS: Yes.
CONAN: And then, of course, there was a rebellion there.
Mr. EDWARDS: Yes.
CONAN: Destroyed it even further. Now how does geography, climate and that sort of thing affect culture?
Mr. EDWARDS: Well, you know, I think this was probably a desert culture at one time. I don't think of it as being a strong, desert culture today because of this urbanization. You know, one of the good things that happened with Saddam's regime was that schools were built, university was enlarged. I think, you know, Iraq got to be a much more sophisticated country in a short time and I have a feeling that that is meant that the ties to clans and, you know, desert people pretty much have been--maybe not severed but certainly been weakened and the number of nomads, for example, that you might expect to find in this country is really very small today.
CONAN: So what books would you recommend, Mike.
Mr. EDWARDS: Well, I'm going to start out with one that National Geographic just published, an atlas of the Middle East. It's maps of 16 countries and a lot of basic data about, you know, populations, oil, other resources, water, for example. Someone mentioned Sandra Mackey's book a couple of minutes ago, "The Reckoning: Iraq and the Legacy of Saddam Hussein." I think that's a good book.
CONAN: I'm just looking at that National Geographic atlas which I happened to have received a copy, just came out this week. And there's--it's not just maps of the countries but where oil and--there's historical maps as well and all kinds of world heritage sites. Fascinating stuff.
Mr. EDWARDS: Well, you know, one of the curious things to me in the figures on Iraq is the literacy rate is 58 percent. I would have expected it to be higher and I have a feeling that, you know, 15 or 20 years ago perhaps it was a little higher; that maybe there's been such a large out-migration of educated people that the literacy rate has fallen. But it's well below, for example, Iran now.
CONAN: Yeah.
Mark Strauss, I wanted to bring you back in on the conversation. As, you know, resources--water, oil, all those sorts of things--are crucial to understanding this region, are there any good books, other than the ones we just mentioned, about resources that you can think of?
Mr. STRAUSS: Resources beyond the ones that were just mentioned, no. But I always do recommend sort of books that, you know, get into the--sort of the mind of the ideology of the regime and to get a better understanding of sort of what makes, you know, Saddam tick. Because we hear a lot about rhetoric, about that he's sort of undeterrable and irrational. And, you know, one article that comes to mind is actually one that Foreign Policy recently published called An Unnecessary War and that's by John J. Mearsheimer at the University of Chicago and Steve Walt at Harvard University. And it's a very, very good historical overview of, you know, Saddam's history--his personal history. And what they essentially argue is that there's a method to his madness. That he's brutal, that he can be dangerous, but he's not undeterrable. He does respond to threats, and they basically end by arguing that he can be contained. You don't have to resort to war in order to deter him.
CONAN: We also got an e-mail from Deirdre Moore(ph) in San Diego, California, who recommends a Web site, www.lib.utexas.edu/maps. `Whenever I want to see any portion of the world on a map I go to this site,' she says. It's got it all and if you don't want to get the National Geographic atlas, that might be a substitute.
Are you familiar with that, Mike, by the way?
Mr. EDWARDS: I'm not familiar with that one. But the one that I was going to mention that is very good for basic information is the CIA Web site. Maybe someone has mentioned that before. That's www.cia...
CONAN: Dot-gov I would assume.
Mr. EDWARDS: ...gov.
CONAN: Yes.
Mr. EDWARDS: And, you know, just basic information. They're not going to give you any classified stuff there, but just good basic information on that country's--another book that I--on my list that I used a few years ago is called "The Kurds of Iraq." It's by a man named Michael Gunter--G-U-N-T-E-R. It was published in 1992 by St. Martin's Press. Actually, I think that's a reprint of a British edition.
CONAN: Mm-hmm.
Mr. EDWARDS: But just very interesting on the ups and downs of the Kurds and how they have, you know, sided with various countries along the way and, you know, of course at one time with Saddam and everything always turns out bad for them, you know, which I think is going to be a huge factor in what happens in the next few months or few years in Iraq. What are the Kurds going to do? Are they going to try to be independent or what?
CONAN: Mike Edwards, thanks very much.
Mr. EDWARDS: Thank you.
CONAN: Mike Edwards, a contributing writer for National Geographic magazine. He was on the line with us from his home here in...
Mr. EDWARDS: OK. Bye-bye.
CONAN: ...Washington, DC.
Let's go to another caller and David joins us from Wynnewood, Pennsylvania.
DAVID (Caller): Hi. I was struck by the discussion of amenities of life in Iraq. What was failed to be mentioned was that they have national health insurance which I guess pays for glass eyes after the regime gouges out your real eyes. I would like to recommend the works of an Iraqi dissident named Kanan Makiya.
CONAN: Yes.
DAVID: He has written a number of books going back over (technical difficulties) years, I think.
CONAN: "Republic of Fear," is probably the best one.
DAVID: "Republic of Fear" is the most famous one, yes.
CONAN: Yes.
DAVID: And that was a very broad discussion of the totalitarian rule that Saddam imposed on Iraq. He's also written a very interesting book, but he himself is an architect by training and he wrote an analysis of the monstrous monument in Baghdad based on Saddam's forearms, you know, with the two crossed swords celebrating the victory of--well, what Saddam calls the victory over the Iranian army in his war with Iran in the 1980s.
The other name I'd like to mention is the name of a Baghdadi Jew who was born in Baghdad named Elie Kedourie. For many years he was a professor at the University of London and he's now dead, but he wrote very many books on the Middle East. I was privileged to hear a lecture--a series of lectures by him on British policy in Mesopotamia between the wars, in which I really--that opened my eyes to the background of the current situation in Iraq. But these was many years ago that I heard this. I have no titles to give you, but his name is K-E-D-O-U-R-I-E; Elie Kedourie and he is--there would be no problem finding him. He is a beautiful, beautiful--his writing is beautiful and he is an extremely well-informed person.
CONAN: David, thanks very much.
DAVID: You're very welcome.
CONAN: Question for you, Mark Strauss. `Can you recommend'--this an e-mail question from Tom in Park City, Utah. `Can you recommend two highly regarded periodicals--one conservative, the other liberal--that cover US foreign policy?'
Mr. STRAUSS: Let's see. I mean, is he looking for--I mean, I guess if you're looking for simply, you know, from a liberal and a conservative perspective, you know, the standards are, I think--both The Weekly Standard from a conservative perspective has offered some very good coverage and thoughtful essays on US foreign policy in general. New Republic and American Prospect are two magazines from the left that I regard very highly that have also put sort of their spin on it. And, of course, I will shamelessly suggest Foreign Policy magazine, which is just a good neutral source for information on international affairs. And we welcome perspectives on everyone in our magazine from Jeane Kirkpatrick and Noam Chomsky. So you get, you know, across-the-board viewpoints.
CONAN: History, geography and politics explain a lot, but understanding the way people think, eat, talk and play makes them a little bit more real. Joining us now is Arab-American writer Diana Abu-Jaber. She is a professor of literature and writing at Portland State University. Her first novel is called "Arabian Jazz." She has a new novel coming out in a couple of months about an Iraqi-American called "Crescent." And she joins us from her home in Port Lynden.
Well, good of you to join us on TALK OF THE NATION.
Professor DIANA ABU-JABER (Portland State University): Hi, Neal.
CONAN: Just to clarify, you're Jordanian-American, not Iraqi-American?
Prof. ABU-JABER: That's correct.
CONAN: OK. Why did you decide to write about an Iraqi-American?
Prof. ABU-JABER: Well, I think I'm attracted to where there's something interesting going on, and I had been teaching at UCLA and I had a number of students in my class who happened to be Iraqi, and they threw the best parties.
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Prof. ABU-JABER: So, you know, I got to know the culture really well and I became very interested in it. And, of course, this was all before, you know, it was in the news. And so it was really from a more personal perspective. And I just became really entranced with the Iraqi culture.
CONAN: What did you read to get into that side of your character?
Prof. ABU-JABER: Oh, well, that was a bit of a struggle because I really wanted to bring these Iraqi characters alive. And I was writing out of my own generalized experience as an Arab-American, and I interviewed a number of Iraqis. But I struggled to find good representations of contemporary Iraqi fiction translated into English. And I had to broaden my field a little, but one of my favorite books that was really helpful was "Guests of the Sheik," and that's by Elizabeth Warnnock Fernea. And that is just a beautiful account of the author. She's American, and she stayed for two years in a little rural village in southern Iraq.
It's an older book. It was originally published in 1965. But, you know, I think it gives a really very clear sense of the rhythms of life as they were led in that region and carried out for generations, you know. She talks about the strong sorority of women. She talks about their traditions, their crafts, the interesting private forms of power that came up between the women. And I think there's a sense of what's at stake culturally and personally for these people. So it's really a human perspective on life in a little village in Iraq.
CONAN: We're talking with Diana Abu-Jaber, who's a professor of literature at Portland State University and a novelist, and with Mark Strauss of Foreign Policy magazine. We're compiling our reading list on Iraq. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.
And, Diana, we have an e-mail question from Laura Coffman--or, Laura, rather, in Coffman Cove, Alaska. You'll excuse me. `Do you have any recommendations on Iraqi folk tales, traditional culture or Iraqi traditional literature?'
Prof. ABU-JABER: Mm. That's a great question. Actually, I did turn to a number of sources like folk tales and anthologies and poetry. I really liked one book called "Arab Folktales," and that was edited by Inea Bushnaq, B-U-S-H-N-A-Q, I believe. And that gave readers a really nice sense of the ingrained traditions, the ways of seeing, interpreting the world. In fact, there's one story in there, as I recall, which is an early version of the "Cinderella" story from Iraq. So it's a wonderful collection.
There's also a poetry collection that I love called "Nights and Horses and the Desert," and that was edited by Robert Irwin. And it gives a real sense of the great poetic traditions of classical Arabia, you know, and much of that stems from the area that includes contemporary Iraq. And it gives you a real range of that beautiful poetry. When we talk about Iraq, we look at the place where so many of our own narratives originated. So it's wonderful to look at the ancient poets.
CONAN: Well, thanks very much for being with us today.
Prof. ABU-JABER: Oh, my pleasure.
CONAN: Diana Abu-Jaber is a professor of literature and writing at Portland State University, the author of "Arabian Jazz." Her new novel coming out is called "Crescent." And still with us is Mark Strauss of Foreign Policy magazine.
Let's take another call. And joining us on the line is Dave in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.
DAVE (Caller): Yeah, hi. I'd like to recommend--I think you already mentioned a book by Bernard Lewis named "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East."
CONAN: I think we recommended his new book, but that one is an older one, I think.
DAVE: Yes. And also a book called a "History of the Arabs," by Philip Hitti, which is spelled H-I-T-T-I. I took a course in college on the history of the Middle East, and both of these books were excellent. The Philip Hitti book goes all the way back almost to biblical times, and it kind of gives you an overall view of what's been going on there, you know, for the last 5,000 years, but also the fact that there is no really unique Iraqi culture. It's part of the Arab culture. And I think it would be interesting if nationalism were to sweep over this area, that all of those countries that are scattered across the peninsula and all the way up into Syria and Iraq would actually become one country perhaps.
CONAN: Well, thanks very much for the recommendation, Dave.
DAVE: One more thing. One of the things that I think is really fascinating about Iraq is this statistic, and that is that 42 percent of the people of Iraq are under the age of 14.
CONAN: Well, that suggests that they've all come of--spent much of their lives in the present situation in the post-Gulf War period.
DAVE: Yeah.
CONAN: That's an interesting observation, Dave. Thank you.
DAVE: Indeed.
CONAN: Yeah. OK.
I wanted to read an e-mail we got from Brian Clements(ph) in Flagstaff, Arizona. `I don't know if this book has already been mentioned,' he writes, `but I think "The Prize" by Daniel Yergin has an excellent selection for learning about the background of the world's relationship to oil and to the Middle East.'
And, Mark Strauss, we're going to give you the last word. Any final recommendation?
Mr. STRAUSS: Yes. There's one particular--it's not a book, it's not an article, but it's a really, really good policy paper that came out from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace here in Washington. You can get it from their Web site. It's called "Democratic Mirage in the Middle East," and it explores, you know, sort of the aftermath of war in Iraq. A lot of folks are saying that we can use this war as a way to promote democracy through the region, and they cast a very critical and skeptical eye on how and whether that will be doable and, if so, how long it would take to build democracy in Iraq. And I would highly recommend that.
CONAN: Mark Strauss, senior editor of Foreign Policy magazine, thanks very much.
Mr. STRAUSS: Thank you.
CONAN: Mark Strauss was with us from his office here in Washington. Our correspondent Jennifer Ludden, by the way, recommended two books: "Out of the Ashes: The Resurrection of Saddam Hussein," by Andrew and Patrick Cockburn, and "Saddam Hussein: The Politics of Revenge," by Said K. Aburish, and that was published in 1999.
When we come back from a break, the Kabuki at the Security Council. Stay with us. It's TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.
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