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INTERVIEW: WALTER RUSSELL MEAD DISCUSSES THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION'S FOREIGN POLICY STRATEGY
Weekend Edition Sunday: May 4, 2003
 U.S. Foreign Policy
LIANE HANSEN, host:
This past week, as President Bush declared that the major fighting was over in Iraq and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld visited Kabul to say most fighting in Afghanistan had ended, America's top diplomat flew to the Middle East in another effort to end one of the world's most enduring conflicts. Secretary of State Colin Powell met yesterday with Syrian President Bashar Assad to discuss the US-sponsored road map for peace between Israel and the Palestinians, released last week by the Bush administration. The diplomatic effort came as European nations held meetings of their own to talk about mutual defense issues and what role Europe will play in postwar Iraq.
Walter Russell Mead is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and a regular guest on our program, and he's in our New York bureau.
Good morning, Walter.
Mr. WALTER RUSSELL MEAD (Council on foreign Relations): Good morning, Liane.
HANSEN: What do you think the chances are that the road map that was presented this past week is going to work any better than previous peace initiatives?
Mr. MEAD: Well, you know, if it works as well as the Oslo initiative, it would mean 10 years of gradual reconciliation and progress. So I think it may be unrealistic to think we're going to get--you know, pull a solution out of a hat like a rabbit here, but I think we can hope for a shift to a dynamic in which things are getting better and not worse.
HANSEN: So what does Secretary Powell need to do to actually get Arab nations to support a peace settlement between Israel and the Palestinians?
Mr. MEAD: Well, I think he does need to convince the Syrians that they should be supporting peace and not opposing it in the region, and that would be a tremendous plus. It seems as if the Egyptians are already taking a pretty constructive stand. If you think about it, in the big picture, over the long term, we've now got two of three of Israel's principal Arab nations committed to peace with Israel--principal Arab neighbors. If Syria comes on board--and Syria basically controls Lebanon--then for the first time since the 1940s, Israel would not face a militarily hostile state on its frontiers. That would be good.
HANSEN: In another development, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said this past week that most US troops based in Saudi Arabia will be withdrawn by the end of this summer. How important is this decision in the context of the war on terrorism?
Mr. MEAD: It's a terrific decision and a real step forward, and it's--you know, we should understand, this is one of the principal benefits of the victory in Iraq, because the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia was a destabilizing factor. We needed them there to protect Saudi Arabia, and we certainly couldn't withdraw them under the threat of Osama bin Laden while Saddam Hussein was still in power. Now that he's out, we're moving the troops out; that's a signal to Muslims everywhere that the US really doesn't necessarily have imperial designs on that region.
HANSEN: I want to move to Europe, because the leaders of France, Germany, Belgium and Luxembourg agreed this past week to increase their military cooperation. Are these fundamental changes in the security framework that's sort of governed the West since the end of the Second World War?
Mr. MEAD: No, they were talking shop. The problem with Europeans on defense, historically, has been they are not willing to spend enough to be effective either in NATO or outside NATO. That's not changing. I remember once I was talking to some Belgian soldiers, conscripts, and the kids were telling me, `It's terrific now. In the old days, you know, we were loons--the French-speaking Belgians--and they used to just give the orders in Dutch. Now in every platoon in Belgium, the officers give the orders in both languages.' I said, `Well, gee, that's going to be a real mess if you're ever in combat,' and they said, `Oh, we're not going in combat.'
So, you know, there's not a real strong military culture here that we're dealing with.
HANSEN: But if this group of four countries plans to set up its own military planning apparatus in Brussels, separate from NATO, what effect is this going to have on NATO's mission?
Mr. MEAD: Again, I don't think it's going to have much, because I think the Germans really don't want to weaken NATO. There's a US-German rift at the moment, but serious people on both sides are trying to keep the relationship together.
HANSEN: Walter, we have a little less than a minute left, but there was an important development in another part of the world: India's overture to Pakistan, perhaps, to make peace with one another. What do you make of that?
Mr. MEAD: Well, I'm extremely pleased, and many serious people were worried that this summer would see a return to the hostilities between India and Pakistan, and possibly a real threat of nuclear war. It's wonderful that they're going to be talking rather than fighting this summer.
HANSEN: Walter Russell Mead is a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and the author of "Special Providence: American Foreign Policy and How it Changed the World." He joined us from our New York bureau.
As always, thank you very much, Walter.
Mr. MEAD: Great to be here, Liane.
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