The Generic Latino?

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MICHEL MARTIN, host:

As you just heard, we've been speaking with the editors of two magazines targeted to the Latino community about the meaning of Sonia Sotomayor's nomination to the Supreme Court, and now we turn to one writer who takes a very different view.

Los Angeles Times columnist Gregory Rodriguez says what Latino community or rather which: Puerto Ricans, Mexican-Americans? What does a catch-all term like Latino mean anyway? We called him to find out more. Gregory, welcome back. Thank you for joining us.

Mr. GREGORY RODRIGUEZ (Writer, Los Angeles Times): Thanks for having me.

MARTIN: Do you mind if I ask you just your reaction with Sonia Sotomayor's name was announced?

Mr. RODRIGUEZ: I didn't much have one other than sort of pleased that the president had decided on someone, and as any other nominee, I would want to look more and find out more about his or her credentials, etcetera. So I didn't really have a pro or con visceral response.

MARTIN: Now you've spent a great deal of time in recent years writing about what it means to be Latino, the identity, the history and so forth of the term. So what got you thinking about this whole question of what her nomination allegedly means?

Mr. RODRIGUEZ: It was the way that the media and the political elites glided over the rather significant cultural distinctions of the national origins that make up the larger, generic group of Hispanic or Latino. So it was how the media made the broad assumption that all Latinos were somehow thrilled, and I wanted to sort of deconstruct that and look to see if there was any evidence to say whether that would be true or not.

MARTIN: And what is the evidence so far? I mean, we've been searching for some data, and I don't see any so far, broken down by ethnicity per se. I know that there was a new poll out by the Associated Press that says that Americans have a favorable first impression of her overall.

Mr. RODRIGUEZ: Right. I believe Gallup has one, as well, which is generally strong in favor than not. The best data we have is this Pew Hispanic Center 2002 survey, which looked - when asked whether Latinos from different countries have separate and distinct cultures or share one Hispanic or Latino cultures, respondents to the survey overwhelmingly, 85 percent, responded that Latinos from different countries had different cultures. Only 14 percent said Latinos share one Hispanic culture.

When asked what terms they would first use to describe themselves, which is my point exactly, the Hispanic respondents were much more likely to identify themselves as Peruvian-American, Salvadoran-American, Dominican-American, Puerto Rican, by country of origin than as Latino. I think the best data available is that survey.

MARTIN: Now you criticize the media for this, but Sonia Sotomayor has described herself in those very terms. In fact, the phrase from a speech she gave in 2001, which has generated so much commentary about her, particularly on the part of conservatives, who are gearing up to oppose her nomination, is of course - and I'm sure you've got this quote emblazoned in memory because we've all heard it so much - is where she says, quote, I would hope that a wise Latina, with the richness of her experiences, would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life. I mean, she's describing herself that way.

Mr. RODRIGUEZ: Right, I'm not arguing that Latino is an inappropriate word. I'm just arguing that in the constant use of the generic, we lost touch with how important and how even-more-deeply-felt national origin identities.

MARTIN: Sometimes what forges identity is opposition, and I'm wondering what effect you think some of the people who are now opposing or criticizing Sotomayor, calling her a racist, what effect do you think that has on the discussion, and I don't know if it's worthwhile here, but of course Rush Limbaugh has been one of her chief critics, and I could just play a short clip of what he said just so that everybody knows what it is that we're talking about here. Here he is.

(Soundbite of radio program)

Mr. RUSH LIMBAUGH (Radio Host): Obama is the greatest living example of a reverse racist, and now he's appointed one, Sonia Sotomayor, to the U.S. Supreme Court.

MARTIN: Well, he hasn't appointed her yet because she's got to be confirmed, but you take his point. First of all, what do you make of his charge or complaint here, and secondly, what effect do you think this may have on this whole question of identity and whether that kind of opposition in a way reaffirms people in that identity?

Mr. RODRIGUEZ: Number one, I don't give Rush Limbaugh a great deal of cultural power over the creation of identity for 50-million Americans. Secondly, anti-Mexican sentiment is recurrent, and it happens every so often.

MARTIN: So where do you come out? At the end of the day, if one were to say well gee, how do Latinos feel about Sonia Sotomayor's nomination, your answer would be who knows?

Mr. RODRIGUEZ: We don't really know. The point is we don't know, and I'm not, unlike most major media in this country, I'm not going to presume to guess. I'm not going to say they're all thrilled, or this many is angry. I'm just saying that really given the data from the Pew Hispanic Center, given our knowledge of the history of the creation of a political national Latino identity, that it would be safe to assume that the answer to the question is much more complicated than anyone has said.

MARTIN: And at the end of the day, what's your best advice for us struggling hacks out here in media trying to make sense of the world? Should we just dump Latino altogether?

Mr. RODRIGUEZ: The best advice is to use Latino when it's appropriate, when you're speaking of the whole, when you're speaking of the amalgam. Use Latino. It's fine, but the local paper in Los Angeles, they will use Latino shorthand. This is how ridiculous it's getting.

Okay, so they'll describe Huntington Park, California, which is the city in America with the highest percentage of Mexican-born residents. This is a Mexican city. It's an immigrant city, and they will call it a Latino city, and then they'll take Montebello, California, which is a heavily Mexican-American city, third generation, mostly English dominant. It's most - you know, sort of mainstream, middle-America suburban mall but Mexican-American, and the Los Angeles Times will call that city a Latino city.

So my suggestion is not to throw out Latino but to disaggregate whenever possible because that's simply more accurate.

MARTIN: All right. Gregory Rodriguez is a columnist for the Los Angeles Times. He's also director of the California Fellows Program at the New America Foundation, and he was kind enough to join us from his office in Los Angeles, which is a what, polyglot, multicultural city with people from many different parts of the world, correct?

Mr. RODRIGUEZ: And we don't call pasta European food. We call it Italian food.

(Soundbite of laughter)

MARTIN: Okay, point taken. Thank you so much for speaking with us.

Mr. RODRIGUEZ: Thank you.

(Soundbite of music)

MARTIN: Remember at TELL ME MORE, the conversation never ends. We've just had two conversations about the response of the Latino community, if there is such a thing, to the nomination of Sonia Sotomayor to the U.S. Supreme Court.

So we'd like to know what you think, particularly if you consider yourself to be Latino. Do you feel that Sotomayor is being treated fairly by political leaders and the media? Do you think that the issue of her ethnicity is being overplayed or, by her detractors or even her supporters, underplayed, just right?

To tell us more, please call our comment line at 202-842-3522. Once again that's 202-842-3522, or go to the TELL ME MORE page at npr.org and blog it out.

Coming up, award-winning actress Sally Field talks about what she's learned about acting, activism and getting older in Hollywood.

Ms. SALLY FIELD (Actor): If someone says to me, you know, sit down and shut up and look pretty, well too bad because I couldn't do that in 1964, so…

MARTIN: Sally Field is our guest for our Wisdom Watch. That's next on TELL ME MORE from NPR News. I'm Michel Martin.

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