Obama's Speech Protests Examined

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ROBERT SIEGEL, host:

And now back to E.J. Dionne and David Brooks. David, what do you make of this? Overreaching by the White House, overreaction by the parents, what it is?

Mr. DAVID BROOKS (Columnist, The New York Times): It was a mistake to read The Marx-Engels Reader to the students…

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. BROOKS: Now, you know, it's - I - you know, I hope we can a make a distinction between what I think is the death panel right and the sensible right.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. BROOKS: The death panel right is upset about things that are totally unrealistic and insane. And I think there are a lot people who are fine with the president going on and telling kids to go to school and not do drugs and all sorts of nice things.

SIEGEL: E.J.?

Mr. E.J. DIONNE (Columnist, The Washington Post): Oh, I was so glad, David said that, because this is one of the most outrageous stories we've run across in a long time. In a four-page document put out by the Education Department, there was one line that they should've rewritten. President's going to tell kids that they should stay in school, that they shouldn't drop out, that they should work hard, that they should get ahead. If that's socialism, then most American parents are socialists. And people said, well, it would be great. Barack Obama can be a role model to poor kids and African-American kids. He's doing exactly what everybody hoped he would do to tell kids, work hard in school.

SIEGEL: Okay. Let's move on to the speech he's giving to grownups next week…

(Soundbite of laughter)

SIEGEL: …about health care. David, what should the president tell the joint session of Congress on Wednesday?

Mr. BROOKS: Well, it's got to be about incentives. There's been a lot of destruction about the public plan and the not-public plan. The crucial issue: Is the president going to fundamentally change the incentives in the health care system so they're not insane the way they are now?

SIEGEL: You mean, the doctors make more for ordering more tests.

Mr. DIONNE: Right.

Mr. SIEGEL: So, it's - so, we've got a system that provides - they pay for a lot of services. They don't provide for a lot of care. And the president has talked about this as a way to reduce cost. But he hasn't given some meat and potatoes. And I'm led to understand today that he's going to be a lot more specific about that sort of stuff, the cost-control stuff than he's been so far which would be very goodness.

SIEGEL: E.J.?

Mr. DIONNE: I think he's got to remind people what they don't like about the health care system and what he's doing to fix it. There are lot things people don't like about their health care system: that people go bankrupt because their insurance runs out, because they can't get insurance when they have preexisting conditions and because a lot of Americans can't afford insurance. And that's what health care reform was about in the first place. The whole debate in the last month or so has moved from all of those things to dark fears about what government is going to do to the health care system. I agree with David that there have to be systematic reforms.

But the first thing he's got to do is pull Americans back and say, I've specific ideas. These are not threatening and these are actually going to make the system better from your own point of view.

Mr. BROOKS: But he has been losing the debate. His approval ratings are down 20 percent, there's now solid public majorities against health care reform. And I'm not sure it's the reform, it's the sense government's a little - spending too much getting out of control.

SIEGEL: Yes, yeah…

Mr. DIONNE: I think they've been losing the debate because the president took too long to say, here are a specific set of things we're doing to fix the system. In the absence of that specificity, all kinds of things including lies entered the debate. And I think it's as much about the failure to see what this plan will do as it is about dark fears of government - for middle people in the middle ground.

SIEGEL: Has there been a failure somewhere here to effectively brand and market something with an accessible idea or is the health care economy just so complicated that you've got to dive into it like a graduate course in order to just to see what you think about this?

Mr. DIONNE: All of the above.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Mr. BROOKS: Yeah, it is all of the above. But this plan basically takes the current system and expands it. It does not cut costs, it will add to the health care inflation. So, it's not just the messaging. There's problems with the plans.

Mr. DIONNE: I think where Dave and I disagree is that I don't think you're going to have full reform until everybody is inside the system and this is the first step to get everybody inside.

SIEGEL: E.J. Dionne of the Washington Post, David Brooks of the New York Times - thanks to both of you once again.

Mr. BROOKS: Thank you.

Mr. DIONNE: Thank you.

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