A Changing Darfur

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MICHEL MARTIN, host:

I'm Michel Martin, and this is TELL ME MORE from NPR News.

Later in the program, we'll talk about money, money, money, y'all. What to do when those student loans come due, and who's getting those multimillion dollar bonuses on Wall Street and why?

But we begin the program talking about Sudan. The Obama administration unveiled a new diplomatic strategy towards the African nation that has engaged the passionate concern of grassroots activists, and high level negotiators for many years now.

Yesterday's announcement came after what was, by all accounts, a hard fought seven-month review. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton laid out what's at stake.

Secretary HILLARY CLINTON (Department of State): During the past decade, genocide in Darfur, and protracted violence, and conflict between the north and south have claimed more than two million lives, subjected civilians to unspeakable atrocities, and led to mass human suffering.

MARTIN: In making the announcement, Secretary Clinton was joined by the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Susan Rice. Rice said the new strategy would link Darfur and the conflict between north and south together.

Ambassador SUSAN RICE (United Nations): To meet these twin goals, the United States is prepared to work with all sides. We will employ calibrated incentives as appropriate, and exert real pressure as needed on any party that fails to act to improve the lives of the people of Sudan.

MARTIN: Specifically, the U.S. is prepared to work with the government of Omar al-Bashir, a government accused of setting off and supporting genocide, charges that have led to a warrant for Bashir's arrest issued by the International Criminal Court. Administration officials said they would not remove Sudan from a terrorism blacklist without progress on the ground. And Ambassador Rice says there will be milestones that have to be met.

Amb. RICE: There will be no rewards for the status quo. No incentives without concrete and tangible progress. There will be significant consequences for parties that backslide or simply stand still. In a moment we'll speak with the leader of one of the grassroots organizations that's work to keep Darfur in the headlines, and on the agenda of administration officials, Gerry Fowler of the Save Darfur Coalition.

But first, we wanted to get a sense of what the reality is on the ground in Sudan. Stephanie McCrummen covers Eastern and Central Africa for The Washington Post. She was in Sudan recently on a reporting trip, and she joins us here in our Washington, D.C. studio. Welcome, thank you for coming.

Ms. STEPHANIE McCRUMMEN (Correspondent, The Washington Post): Thanks for having me.

MARTIN: We've heard so much about the ongoing situation in Darfur, but what's the situation now? Does the killing continue?

Ms. McCRUMEN: I think it's important to understand that the situation in Darfur has changed quite a bit from 2003 and 2004, which really produced some of the most iconic and infamous images of the conflict. At that time, it was largely a one-sided campaign by government sponsored militias targeting rebels and civilians.

So you had the large scale village burnings and hundreds of thousands of people killed. And I think that's the image that many Americans are most familiar with. But the situation now is quite a bit different. It's much more complex. The rebel groups have fragmented into, you know, by some estimates dozens of groups.

I believe last year, more people were displaced by tribal fighting and intra-rebel fighting than from government bombing campaigns, which do continue. So the government hand is definitely there. But there - it's a much more complicated situation. Even some of the government militias, known as the Janjaweed have become disillusioned with the government. They're no longer being paid, they're mad, and some of them have joined rebel groups themselves.

MARTIN: How does the Obama administration policy that was just announced differ from what the Bush administration had in place?

Ms. McCRUMEN: I think the Obama administration would say that they have very clear benchmarks for when incentives would be applied. That they're not going to go in with incentives, such as taking Sudan off the terrorism list, such as lifting sanctions. That they're going to wait and see until there's verifiable proof on the ground of change in the behavior of the government.

MARTIN: Given that the Obama administration made clear that they're not removing some of the sanctions already in place, the president of Sudan has been indicted by the International Criminal Court. The administration said that the sanctions that are in place will not be removed. What is the expectation of how the government of Khartoum will respond to this? How will they see this as a change?

One incentive, I guess, I'm asking - the administration talked about incentives, and disincentives - what incentives are there really for the government to change?

Ms. McCRUMEN: Well, I think, that - I mean the policy does lay out incentives that would be there if there is change on the ground. The special envoy, General Scott Gration, the Obama special envoy to Sudan has taken a very warm approach towards the ruling party in Sudan, the ruling party of President Omar Bashir. So, I think the ruling party has read that in a way that, you know, this administration is serious about perhaps lifting some sanctions if changes are evident on the ground. And the policy review, I believe, said this, you know, sort of explicitly, that they don't count the signing of agreements. They want to see change on the ground.

MARTIN: And finally, I wanted to ask, you alluded to this, but do you have any sense of how the government of Khartoum is responding.

Ms. McCRUMEN: Well, I mean they definitely had responded quite warmly to General Gration when I was there. And I believe yesterday, Ghazi Salahuddin, who's an adviser to President Bashir and is sort of the main negotiator, said that they welcome the new policy, and they're sort of casting it as a positive development.

MARTIN: Stephanie McCrummen covers Eastern and Central Africa for the Washington Post. She recently returned from a reporting trip to Sudan. If you want to read the articles that we've been talking about in her coverage, we will have links on our Web Site. Just go to npr.org. Go to programs and click on TELL ME MORE.

Stephanie, thank you so much for joining us.

Ms. McCRUMEN: Thanks for having me.

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