Retired Military Leader Says Parts of Iraq Safer

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RENEE MONTAGNE, host:

General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker are giving Congress their assessment of President Bush's troop surge.

For another assessment, we've called Bing West. He's a retired Marine and a former Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Reagan. He has just returned from his most recent trip to Iraq - three weeks with U.S. and Iraqi troops in and around Baghdad and Anbar Province. Good morning.

Mr. BING WEST (U.S. Marine, Retired; Former Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs): Good morning.

MONTAGNE: Let's begin with Anbar because it's being touted as the great success. From what you saw and heard there, is it a success that can outlast a reduction in troops there?

Mr. WEST: Yes. I've been going to Anbar now for four years and I never saw conditions like this before. I walk the streets of Fallujah without my flak jacket and helmet on. And there was no need for them. Anbar has gone absolutely quiet because the tribes - the Sunni tribes, and there are 23 of them - over the last year, all 23 tribes has swung against al-Qaida and they just drove al-Qaida right out of the province.

MONTAGNE: Now Anbar is a Sunni stronghold as you've suggested and since much of the violence in Iraq is a civil war between Sunnis and Shias, Anbar would not seem to be any model of success for the rest of Iraq?

Mr. WEST: It is in one way and that is that it was the Sunnis themselves who had had it with the terror of al-Qaida, that turned against al-Qaida. And now the Americans under General Petraeus are using that same strategy, both north and south of Baghdad, in the Sunni areas. And they have more Sunnis volunteering now to join what they call the concerned citizens - local groups -and they get paid by the American Army $300 a month, which isn't much but it's certainly better than nothing for many of these poor people. And they, too, have turned against al-Qaida.

The Sunnis have accepted, basically, that they cannot get the power they used to have back. They finally, after four years, come to that. And they see the Americans as being their natural ally to help them - almost a shock absorber against the predominantly Shiite-Baghdad government.

MONTAGNE: Well, let's get to Baghdad. General Petraeus emphasized that violence there is down - and that would be from last year's extremely high-level of violence. You were in Baghdad; did you see evidence of that?

Mr. WEST: Well, Baghdad is quiet in terms of fighting. And there are these enormous concrete dividers that have been put up everywhere around the different neighborhoods in order to stop the effects of suicide bombings. But what Baghdad now is, is a series of separate districts - most of them Shiite, some of them Sunni. And in the Shiite districts, the biggest problem is the emergence of the al Mahdi militia as actually having control of the streets. And in the Sunni districts, you're seeing the same thing that you're seeing in Anbar. You're seeing the citizens come forth and say, hey, we want to protect our own neighborhood, we'd like to join the police. So, you're seeing…

MONTAGNE: Right. Expect what it seems like you're seeing then is continued internecine violence.

Mr. WEST: I think, sometimes, mutual assured destruction may be the - a better way of putting it. That is if my neighborhood has a police force and you're neighborhood has a police force then you can get some stability simply because both sides are armed and in their own districts. And that's kind of a strange model but that's what I see emerging.

MONTAGNE: Thank you very much for joining us.

Mr. WEST: Thank you.

MONTAGNE: Bing West was Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs under President Reagan. He's just returned from Iraq.

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