Black Leader Marks Milestone Mayoral Anniversary

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MICHEL MARTIN, host:

I'm Michel Martin, and this is TELL ME MORE from NPR News.

Coming up: more on saggy pants. They make some grown folks crazy, but our commentator asks, might we all have a fashion faux pas in the closet?

But first, today, November 7th, marks the 40th anniversary of the election of Carl Stokes as the first African-American mayor of a major American city, Cleveland. Not to be corny about it, but if you love politics, he was the Jackie Robinson of that sport. He grew up on the projects, then he turned local government on its ear.

Today on our Wisdom Watch, we turn to a man who knows a little bit about what it was like to walk in those shoes. Dennis Archer was a law student when Carl Stokes was first elected. He went on to become mayor of Detroit. He served from 1994 to 2001. He's now a lawyer in private practice.

Mayor Archer, welcome. Thanks for speaking with us.

Mr. DENNIS ARCHER (Attorney; Former Mayor, Detroit): Michel, thank you for having me.

MARTIN: Now when we last spoke, you were talking to us about the Detroit Riots in 1967. And you were a law student at the time, and you talked about, you know, seeing the smoke in the distance. So I want to know - we're talking about Cleveland. In the middle of all of that turmoil that was going on in Detroit, and in other cities, at that time, Newark, how did people react to the election of Carl Stokes?

Mr. ARCHER: I think there was clearly an overall jubilance in the African-American community. And for those who were older, they saw a vision that I could not see at the time - did not fully appreciate this importance other than the fact that an African-American man became mayor of a very large, outstanding city in the United States.

MARTIN: How did he get elected in a city that was only a third African-American? I know people have this image that you need a super majority of African-Americans to achieve that milestone, but he didn't have that. So did he do it?

Mr. ARCHER: I would have to say that his sheer magnetism, along with his preparation and his vision for what he wanted Cleveland to be, he was able to win over sufficient votes of everyone in order to be able to win. You must have a vision, and people must buy into it and be willing to roll-up their sleeves to help whoever they were going to elect to become mayor. So he had to have an awesome agenda, a great vision, readily understandable, that everybody was willing to buy into - at least the majority who elected him mayor of Cleveland.

MARTIN: Was his biography a factor in his popularity? I mean, also the fact that he defeated the - what is it - the grandson of our former U.S. president, for heaven's sake. And here's a guy who's had to quit school because his father died at a young age, and mom worked as a domestic - lived in the projects. Do you think that that made a difference?

Mr. ARCHER: Michel, Americans are willing to look upon a person who was well-educated and trained and a person who had the kind of background that Carl Stokes had as he was growing up. And I would have to suggest that they were willing to give him a flyer - that is to say, given his intellectual capacity, his commitment, his passion for the city and his vision and agenda that included everyone and to move the city of Cleveland forward, that is what I think, at the end of the day, wins it. Because you can have a lot of people with money, and people who have more money loses to the person with a better vision, a better sense of what that city or what that congressional district is like, or, as a matter of fact, if one was running for governor, has a better vision for the state that people can buy into.

MARTIN: Now I know that he and Richard Hatcher are used to kid each other about who is really the first black mayor, and I think that Mayor Stokes used to say, well, you know, Gary's not a real city anyway so it…

(Soundbite of laughter)

MARTIN: Not that I'm trying start any mess, but…

Mr. ARCHER: I just happened to see Richard Hatcher maybe about three or four weeks ago. I went down to speak at Valparaiso University School of Law in Valparaiso, Indiana. And we commiserated about - I don't know if you can recall, but back in the day - using that expression, if I could draw upon that cliche - he hosted a very large meeting in which our mayor, Mayor Coleman Young, went to. And it was quite historic. So I can understand the banter that we go back between Mayor Hatcher and Mayor Stokes. But I would also say right off the top that just as, at the time, when Mayor Stokes was elected and one third of Cleveland's population happened to be African-American, in today's time, Wellington Webb from Denver, Colorado was elected several times. And the combined racial demographics of African-Americans and Hispanics were still considerably less than the entire population of Denver.

So even today, if a person has a good vision and is willing to reach out to people, people will reach back to that person with a good vision that puts the city and everyone who lives in that city ahead of their own self agenda.

MARTIN: Well, I think what you're saying leads into another important point, that after, black mayors were elected in Los Angeles and Detroit and Newark and Denver, of course, as you pointed out. And one of the reasons I brought up Gary is it also marked a time when a lot of people started to see the city's in decline. He achieved that office at that time when, I guess, the deterioration of the urban core started to become very obvious, and the riots, of course, didn't helped. And I wonder if he ever felt - and I know that you knew him. Did he ever feel like, oh, this is some mess. I mean, I'm sort of getting this great position, but at a time when the challenge seemed greater than ever.

Mr. ARCHER: Well, Michel, I can't say that I ever sat down with him after he left the mayor's office - because I didn't meet him until after that time -that he ever shared that sense of feeling. But I will tell you that those of us who run for office, irrespective of where our city happens to be, it's always fraught with challenges.

For example, Mayor Willie Brown in San Francisco - great, beautiful city. It's picturesque, and still voted today in many publications as perhaps one of the best cities to go to to have fun, et cetera. But he was challenged with trying to find housing - affordable housing for his people.

In Detroit, we were challenged with trying to bring jobs and economic prosperity back and create hope and opportunity. And so I would think, given the kind of person that Carl Stokes was - and he was a very personable guy. I mean, if you go back and take a look at any of the film clips and you would see him speak before the U.S. Conference of Mayors, he was a very polished person. And he would say where if I were able to be elected as mayor of Cleveland, this is what I could do, and I'm ready to roll up my sleeves. Don't write my city off. I love my city. I need all of you to work with me. And if we all work together, we can turn Cleveland around.

MARTIN: I wondered if you ever felt that way, though, that in a way, you were climbing a rock of a very steep hill.

Mr. ARCHER: Well, to me, part of being a lawyer is a calling. And in many instances, some of us like my mentor Judge Damon Keith, for example, had a calling to leave private practice, where he could have been substantially wealthy. But it's a calling that you have that you care about whether it's the judicial independence or the rule of law, in the case of judges, or you care about your city - whether you offer yourself as candidate for city council, or in the case of Carl Stokes, the office of mayor. And when you think about it, presidents can't win unless they come through a mayor city, especially a city like Cleveland, Ohio or the city of Detroit or Los Angeles or Denver.

And so to be mayor of one of America's large cities is a very powerful undertaking. And when you see or have a sense of being able to pull together the business community, the foundation community, those who have community organizations and pull us all together and pull all on rope at the same time going forward, there's not a lot we cannot accomplish as a mayor. And I am sure Carl Stokes felt that way.

MARTIN: If you're just joining us, we're marking the 40th anniversary of the election of Carl Stokes as mayor of Cleveland. Dennis Archer, former mayor of Detroit, is with us to remember him.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer marked Mr. Stokes' election with a piece, a look back. And it said, the headline was the new mayor brought hope, but did the dreams die? I wondered if you think that's fair.

Mr. ARCHER: No. I don't really think so, but it sells papers. And I don't mean to denigrate the newspaper, but it does sell papers.

MARTIN: But it says - but I think the point was that, and I understand your point, but that they're still the same - some of the same racial divisions that were present when he was first elected. And they're still some the same issues of trying to maintain an economic base, and all of that.

Mr. ARCHER: Regrettably, we still find the same thing that's been with us for years, but I think we're getting better at it. Cleveland Tomorrow, for example, which is a counterpart to Detroit Renaissance here in the city of Detroit, have been working for a long time to build up the economic stability.

For example, when I was privileged to be mayor from 1994 to 2001 in the city of Detroit, thanks to the business community, thanks to the foundation community, where in 1990, before I took office in '94, Detroit led the nation as having the highest percentage of people living below poverty, 32.2 percent. Factor that out. That meant 46.6 percent of our children live below poverty, and despite the fact that, real or perceived, Detroit was the motor city capital of the world, if not clearly America, 35 percent of the eligible adults could not afford to own a car.

But after seven and a half years, working together with the business community who created jobs - because, you see, jobs don't create jobs. Businesses have to create jobs. And you need to work with businesses to give them motivation and stuff to commit.

So we go in fits and starts. Race is something that we're going to have to deal with. It's going to be with us. And if we could just understand and appreciate the richness of diversity, and to utilize that, America is going to be even stronger than what it is today. We need to get over and work together.

MARTIN: You and he share something else in common, that you both became judges.

Mr. ARCHER: He was a judge before I was.

MARTIN: Yeah.

Mr. ARCHER: He became a judge after leaving office. I was privileged to become - thanks to Governor James Blanchard - a member of the Michigan Supreme Court before I became mayor.

MARTIN: Well, he has you beat, though…

Mr. ARCHER: I left there.

MARTIN: He has you beat in one respect, was that, you know, he became a network anchor, an anchor for a major affiliate in New York for eight years.

Mr. ARCHER: Well, he did, and he was outstanding. Carl Stokes beat everybody. I'm just delighted to have the privilege to stand on his shoulders, as I do to Coleman Young and Tom Bradley and Mayor Hatcher and others who preceded me.

MARTIN: Now, they talk about his charisma, though. But can you describe it for the people who never met him?

Mr. ARCHER: If he walked into a room, he would be a Bill Clinton. He'd be a John F. Kennedy. He had the magnetism and the warmth of, say, a Billy Eckstine. He was just a very personable kind of guy. He - you'd want to go up and introduce yourself to him. You'd want to, and if you knew his history, you would want his autograph because he was walking history.

MARTIN: His last assignment, if you want to call it last, was as U.S. ambassador to the Republic of Seychelles. And as I understand it, that was something he very much wanted. He really wanted to represent his country in Africa, and that was the post in which he was serving when, sadly, he was diagnosed with cancer and he came back for treatment, and unfortunately passed on.

But I wonder, given his skills, if he had been alive today, do you think that he would be - you mentioned that - you put him in the same breath as some of our former presidents. Do you think that he would have been a presidential contender had he been born in a later time?

Mr. ARCHER: I don't think there's any question about it. Carl Stokes was a remarkable human being, a great man, a great mayor. And Louis Stokes is someone that I spent considerable time with, from time to time, when I go to Washington - a congressman, former congressman…

MARTIN: Who was his brother.

Mr. ARCHER: And Chuck Stokes is here on WXYZ-TV Channel 7, which is an ABC affiliate. And he has a show that is on every Sunday called "Spotlight in the News." He is a remarkable guy himself. And so the Stokes family is someone -especially in this area - has a remarkable legacy.

MARTIN: Dennis Archer, former mayor of Detroit, remembering Carl Stokes, the first African-American mayor of Cleveland, considered to be the first African-American mayor of a major American city.

Mayor Archer, thank you so much for speaking with us.

Mr. ARCHER: Thank you.

MARTIN: And now, we would love to hear from you about the people who have influenced your career. Go to our blog and tell us a story, or just a quick blurb. Was your role model a well-known public figure, as it was for Dennis Archer? Maybe it was a teacher, a mentor at work who inspired you to go beyond your comfort zone. Click on npr.org/tellmemore. And then while you're there, you can check out my blog about the show. And don't forget, you can also call our comment line at 202-842-3522.

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