Science: How Baby Protects Mom

Scientists are discovering that mothers get "protective cells" form their children.

Copyright © 2007 NPR. For personal, noncommercial use only. See Terms of Use. For other uses, prior permission required.

LUKE BURBANK, host:

Coming up in a few moments, we're going to get down and dirty with the Stinky Diaper Awards. It's a list of the most parentally-challenged newsmakers of the past years. Baby Talk calls - Bay Talk magazine calls them anti-moms. I'll give you a hint who one of them must be. It rhymes with Unfitney.

If only these people knew that their kids might be saving their lives. That's right. There are some scientists who think when a woman has a baby, she gets not just a son or daughter, she gets an army of a little protective cells -gifts from her children that will stay inside her and defend her for maybe the rest of her life.

NPR's Robert Krulwich explains.

ROBERT KRULWICH: For years, it was thought as soon as a baby is conceived, once it starts to grow inside a mom, it gets its own very private space.

Dr. KIRBY JOHNSON (Tufts University): There is - there's a placenta. Placenta was thought to be a fairly impenetrable barrier.

KRULWICH: So says Dr. Kirby Johnson of Tufts University. The baby and its cells stay on the baby side, the mommy cells stay on the mommy side, and nature keeps them separate until…

(Soundbite of babies crying)

KRULWICH: It's, yeah, time to go. And here's the surprise: When scientists at Tufts took blood from ordinary pregnant moms…

Dr. JOHNSON: We would find, for example, in a teaspoon of blood, dozens, perhaps even hundreds of cells…

KRULWICH: From the baby?

Dr. JOHNSON: From the baby.

KRULWICH: So baby cells were slipping out of the placenta, into the moms. But because babies do have different genes…

Dr. JOHNSON: One would expect them to be attacked fairly rapidly. You would expect them to be cleared within hours, if not days. What we found is that that is not the case - not anywhere near the case.

KRULWICH: It turns out that baby cells stay in their moms, not for days or weeks, but for decades.

Dr. JOHNSON: …four to five decades following the last pregnancy.

KRULWICH: So 40 years after conception, that son or daughter who could now be a middle-aged pharmacist or something - yet, their fetal cells, their baby cells are still floating around inside the mother?

Dr. JOHNSON: Yes.

KRULWICH: Even his 60-year-old mother or 70?

Dr. JOHNSON: Seventy, 80, perhaps 90-year-old women.

KRULWICH: You're sure of this?

Dr. JOHNSON: Absolutely.

Professor CAROL ARTLETT (Thomas Jefferson University): Yeah, these cells last essentially forever.

KRULWICH: In the mom?

Prof. ARTLETT: In the mom.

KRULWICH: And, says Carol Artlett, who studies fetal cell at Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia, even if a woman has a miscarriage or an abortion, even if there is no baby, the cells of an unborn child will stay in the mother for decades. But why? What exactly are they doing in there for years and years and years?

Prof. ARTLETT: That's a good question.

(Soundbite of laughter)

KRULWICH: Well, one early hypothesis - and it's not the nicest idea, says Kirby Johnson - is that certain autoimmune disease…

Dr. JOHNSON: Such as lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, scleroderma are much more common in women than men, and that's one component of the hypothesis is that this prevalence in women is due to fetal cells.

KRULWICH: So later in life, when the mother's joints inflame, maybe it's her fetal cells, her own babies, taking a poke at her. In fact, Kirby's mom did have an autoimmune disease. It was a bad one. And for a while, Kirby thought well, his cells were responsible.

Dr. JOHNSON: So I apologize immediately and said, well, there's nothing much I can do about it.

KRULWICH: Yeah, yeah, but it's, like, stop it, Kirby.

Dr. JOHNSON: But you know what? I was always doing that to my mother - always causing problems, and it was just another on the long line of those kinds of things.

KRULWICH: But happily, the folks at Tufts proposed an alternative, a second theory to explain what fetal cells are doing in the moms.

Dr. JOHNSON: Well, theory number two is the polar opposite of theory number one.

KRULWICH: The good fetal cell hypothesis proposes that the son or daughter cells stay in mom not to hurt her, but to protect, defend and repair her for the rest of her life, whenever she gets seriously ill. And that's a more attractive idea.

Dr. JOHNSON: It's such a person thing, and it does touch the heartstrings of even the most hard-nosed research scientist.

KRULWICH: But they all have mothers.

Dr. JOHNSON: But they all have mothers.

KRULWICH: And happily, they now have evidence. More and more evidence, says Kirby Johnson, that looks like the good hypothesis may be correct. For example, here's a case.

Dr. JOHNSON: Well, this was a woman who came into a neighboring hospital in Boston with symptoms of hepatitis. She was an intravenous drug user.

KRULWICH: And she had had five conceptions. She'd had one child, two miscarriages, two abortions - so that's five in all. She could be carrying, therefore, a lot of fetal cells. And they examined her.

Dr. JOHNSON: And in the process, she had a liver biopsy.

KRULWICH: And the doc said, well, why don't we send her liver to the lab to see if there any fetal cells gathering where she's got trouble? And when they looked…

Dr. JOHNSON: We found hundreds…

KRULWICH: Wow.

Dr. JOHNSON: …and hundreds of fetal cells.

KRULWICH: Normally, they'd expect five or 10 cells.

Dr. JOHNSON: But this was a very large - we saw literally sheets of cells -whole areas that seemed to be normal.

KRULWICH: Meaning that those fetal cells had gathered at the liver and like stem cells, they just turned themselves, in this case, into healthy liver cells.

Dr. JOHNSON: And most interestingly, this woman did not desire to have any further treatment done. In fact, she wanted to get back to her normal life and be left alone.

KRULWICH: And so she left the hospital with hepatitis, but when they checked months later, they learned…

Dr. JOHNSON: That she is completely healthy, no signs of further liver damage.

KRULWICH: So no medical intervention, but just a huge number of her babies' fetal cells. Could that lead you to think the poetic thought that she was saved by her kids?

Dr. JOHNSON: We want to think that.

Prof. ARTLETT: I know you do.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Dr. JOHNSON: There - it's the most likely explanation.

KRULWICH: But in science, there is such a thing as a too dangerously beautiful idea.

Dr. JOHNSON: That's right. Right. If - and we say the same thing to ourselves, because it shows such a basic, wonderful thing, but it has to be right. And we can't be led astray by our own desire for it to be true.

KRULWICH: So they are systematically testing the good hypothesis and the bad hypothesis, all these ideas, on laboratory mice. And when they see mother mice with all kinds of diseases, infectious disease, cancer…

Dr. JOHNSON: Ovarian cancer, endometrial cancer, cervical cancers, we find fetal cells there. We know that fetal cells don't…

KRULWICH: Over and over and over and over?

Dr. JOHNSON: Over and over and over and over.

KRULWICH: Suggesting that fetal cells regularly rush to the places where they're needed in the mom. And, says Carol Artlett…

Prof. ARTLETT: There's a lot of evidence now starting to come out that these cells may actually be repairing tissue.

KRULWICH: That is, protecting the mom. While the other hypothesis that fetal cells hurt the moms - there, the more they look, the less they find.

Dr. JOHNSON: I can't recall a single study that's been truly reproduced to verify the bad fetal cell hypothesis.

KRULWICH: So while no one knows in the end which way it'll go…

Dr. JOHNSON: I think that that's something that we're going to see within the next five years or less.

KRULWICH: So far, a sense is building that fetal cells probably stay in mothers for decades to defend and to protect them, which increasingly is a quiet consolation to Kirby Johnson, because it's now more likely that his cells and his brother's cells were helping their mom, not hurting. And even though his mother did die, Kirby's beginning to feel differently.

Dr. JOHNSON: Well, maybe if it wasn't for my brother and I, she may have passed a few years earlier. Maybe we bought her a couple of extra years of time so she could have a few more birthdays and a few more Mother's Days. And that, if I can just say, that there is some way where I can even have the remotest thought that I contributed to the extension of my mother's life, even if it was a few days, that would make all of the years that I've spent doing this research worthwhile.

STEWART: And that was Robert Krulwich reporting.

Copyright © 2007 NPR. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to NPR. This transcript is provided for personal, noncommercial use only, pursuant to our Terms of Use. Any other use requires NPR's prior permission. Visit our permissions page for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by a contractor for NPR, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of NPR's programming is the audio.

Comments

 

Please keep your community civil. All comments must follow the NPR.org Community rules and terms of use, and will be moderated prior to posting. NPR reserves the right to use the comments we receive, in whole or in part, and to use the commenter's name and location, in any medium. See also the Terms of Use, Privacy Policy and Community FAQ.