Democrats Seek Advantage in GOP Strife

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DEBBIE ELLIOTT, host:

As many commentators have noted, the Republican Party finds itself in a bit of disarray. The House majority leader had to leave his post after being indicted, the Senate majority leader is under investigation for alleged insider stock trading and this past week, the party seemed to splinter over President Bush's nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court. We wanted to know where this puts the Democrats. Here to talk about their strategy are Ed Kilgore, vice president for policy at the Democratic Leadership Council, and Thomas Frank, author of "What's the Matter with Kansas?" a book that examines the rightward shift in his native state.

Hello, gentlemen.

Mr. THOMAS FRANK (Author, "What's the Matter with Kansas?"): How are you doing today?

Mr. ED KILGORE (Vice President for Policy, Democratic Leadership Council): Hello, Debbie.

ELLIOTT: Mr. Kilgore, let's start with you. Just this week, party Chair Howard Dean had said that the party really needs to focus on a streamlined message and that simply capitalizing on these Republican problems is not going to be enough. Why hasn't that happened already?

Mr. KILGORE: There are two reasons. One, we don't control anything. We don't have any one leader. We're also a bit more of a coalition party than the Republican Party, though they're beginning to look like a more fractious coalition than ours at the moment.

In terms of what kind of message Democrats should have, Democrats have to make it clear that they are the party that, above all, defends the economic aspirations of all Americans, particularly middle-class working Americans. But we also have to prove that we're willing to share their values and defend their interests at home and aboard. And if we can't do that, we really deserve to stay in the wilderness.

ELLIOTT: Mr. Frank, what do you think about the overall message? Do you think that people in this country don't perceive what the Democrats are all about?

Mr. FRANK: Absolutely they don't. This is a chronic problem. The sort of historical identity of the Democrats and of liberals is a defender of the economic interests of average people. There was a congressman from Texas back in the day that used to say what liberalism meant was freedom plus groceries. You know, that's who we were. And when you poll--and they do this poll question all the time--about where average voters think the candidates stand on economic issues, and consistently, they believe there's no difference.

ELLIOTT: Well, what kinds of things are happening, say, at the Democratic Leadership Council to make that clearer?

Mr. KILGORE: Well, right now we're working on a pretty large macroeconomic paper on what the country is failing to do and needs to do to keep growing,to maintain its world leadership. It includes things all the way from currency diplomacy with China to strengthening laws enabling unions to organize, that broader narrative about where we are economically, how we can all succeed again, and I think, as Tom would agree with, making it absolutely clear how bogus the populism is of the Bush administration and the Republican Party. Both of those things are essential.

Mr. FRANK: Can I add something to all that? Which is that, you know, in some ways, I welcome the kind of culture--the standard culture war attack that Republicans make. And they do it all the time, I should say. When I'm out there on the road, when I'm on right-wing radio, it's always the same attack: `You're an elitist. Liberals are elitists.' This is part of the sort of cultural magic of the conservative revolution is that when you talk to average--you know, people that voted for Bush on the street, they still perceive in some way that conservatives are, in fact, not in power, that, worse, that conservatives are kind of a persecuted class in American life.

I welcome a national conversation about the problem of elitism, and I think Democrats should, as well. Once they get that word out there, once we start talking about, you know, who runs America and, you know, who doesn't, we will definitely come out as the people who are protecting traditional American middle-class life. That's us.

ELLIOTT: Mr. Kilgore, I'm still a little fuzzy on how you're able to correct that image that the Democratic Party has when it comes to cultural issues without caving in on those fundamental positions like Roe v. Wade.

Mr. KILGORE: We certainly don't advocate at the DLC, you know, moving to the right on cultural issues whatsoever. A lot of this is really earning the trust of people that we live in the same mall universe they are, that we're not delighted about radical changes in the culture that a lot of people find threatening, that we're not happy that unwanted pregnancies occur and that women feel the need to have an abortion. You know, Senator Clinton's been talking a lot recently about, you know, reaching out to right-to-life folks not by changing our position on the right to an abortion, but by working together to reduce unwanted pregnancy to begin with.

That's the kind of approach--it may not persuade people that we agree with them on these issues, but that we live in the same universe, that we have reasonable differences of opinion and that we share the same fundamental values as a country.

ELLIOTT: Mr. Kilgore, do you think that the Democratic Party is offering a clear alternative to the president's strategy in Iraq?

Mr. KILGORE: You know, our plan is to, as quickly as possible, reduce our military footprint in Iraq, where at all possible make Iraqis in charge of their own military destiny, move to a military counterinsurgency strategy that actually begins to secure the country, makes it possible to rebuild it, makes it possible for people to have lives. The shorthand for this in Washington is a withdrawal by benchmark.

ELLIOTT: Although some of the things that you've just talked about I've heard the president say. That's part of what his plan is.

Mr. KILGORE: I don't think so. I think the irony about Iraq, as Democrats agonize about how divided they are on it, is really mostly a matter of detail. I think there are more divisions within the Pentagon about what to do, and certainly within the White House. You got the Pentagon leaking plans to withdraw troops while the president's says, `Nothing's wrong.'

ELLIOTT: I think one of the things from this conversation is that I'm not hearing the sharpness and the clarity, I think, that Republicans seem to have. You know, they have little watchwords, whether it be `smaller government,' `less taxes,' `We're with you on the social issues.' And if somebody were to walk up to you on the street and say, you know, `What is the Democratic Party's rallying cry?' what would you tell them?

Mr. KILGORE: Well, right now I would say, `Throw the bums out, and let's have a government that serves the American people again.' If I had to pick one message right now for Democrats--and I'm resisting that 'cause I don't know--Bill Clinton gave 65-minute speeches that delivered pretty powerful, clear messages without dumbing it down--but I would say, `It's a message of reform, and, you know, here's how we'll do it.'

ELLIOTT: Thomas Frank, do you have a, `One-two-three, this is what the Democratic message needs to be?'

Mr. FRANK: I would just stick with one; I would say security. And by that I don't mean just national security, but security in all the different, you know, aspects of everyday life that we encounter all the time, whether it's, you know, the fear of losing your job or not being able to pay the doctor's bills or your kid not being able to afford college, this is what Democrats are about. They deliver on social security, with a lowercase S; that's who we are.

ELLIOTT: Ed Kilgore is vice president for policy at the Democratic Leadership Council, and Thomas Frank is author of "What's the Matter with Kansas?"

Thanks for being with us, gentlemen.

Mr. FRANK: It was my pleasure.

Mr. KILGORE: My pleasure, too.

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