Women in Prison: Solutions for a Growing Problem

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ED GORDON, host:

Now we'll dig a little deeper into the issue of women in prison. Joining us from our Washington bureau is Ann Jacobs, executive director of the Women's Prison Association. It's a non-profit agency devoted to changing the lives of current and former female inmates. Also with us, Paula Johnson, law professor at Syracuse University. Professor Johnson is also the author of the book "Inner Lives: Voices of African-American Women in Prison."

Good to have you both with us. Appreciate it. Ms. Jacobs, let me start with you. And we'll get into the numbers specifically, but they are staggering. I think many people would be astounded to see the growth in the female population incarcerated, particularly among African-Americans. Why are we seeing this number grow?

Ms. ANN JACOBS (Executive Director, Women's Prison Association): Well, I think it is astounding. And it's particularly astounding when you note that crime is not up and that, in fact, what seems to be happening is that we are incarcerating a larger percentage of people who are arrested and we're incarcerating them for a longer period of time. Nevertheless, only, you know, two-thirds of the women who are in prison are there for non-violent offenses. So it really should cause us to question why this is, you know, such a trend and particularly so devastating for the African-American community.

GORDON: We should note in 2004 women doubled the number in terms of the increase, the growth, of incarceration of men. Paula Johnson, when you look at these numbers--we've heard so much about the strides of African-American women and have applauded on this program the strides taken in higher education, particularly the disproportionate number of black women who attend colleges and universities in comparison to black men--but to juxtapose it to this, to turn the coin over, it's a bit disheartening to see this number.

Professor PAULA JOHNSON (Syracuse University): Yes, it certainly is. And a lot of the reason for that increase is attributed to the very harsh approach that we have to sentencing--to arrest and sentencing in this country. As Ann Jacobs just mentioned, more and more people are being sentenced for a larger number of offenses for longer periods of time. That previously was not the case. And so when you combine the institutional aspects of racism and those things that--and sexism, which affect many black women's lives, then you have a reason for that huge increase, despite the fact that crime itself has gone down.

GORDON: Is it to some degree generational or learned behavior, Ann Jacobs, that many of these women are falling into this pattern?

Ms. JACOBS: I'm not comfortable with that as an explanation. I think that what we see is that certain communities are disproportionately affected by our criminal justice process, and they're overwhelmingly poor and underresourced communities where there's a lot of strain on families, where poverty is the norm; where it's common for people to experience violence, observe violence, be the victims of violence. In fact, the common denominator of most of the clients we see is that they have incredible trauma in their background, and it's untreated trauma. So they self-medicate. So they--you know, they do what they can figure out within their circumstances to take care of themselves and they end up on kind of a collision course that keeps cutting down on their opportunities rather than increasing them.

GORDON: When you look at these numbers in comparison--it's done by per hundred thousand--African-American females incarcerated, 170 per 100,000--that in the comparison rate 75 per 100,000 for Hispanic females and 42 per 100,000 for white females--Paula Johnson, when you did your studies and talked with women in prison, what did you find was a common denominator amongst most of them?

Prof. JOHNSON: Well, one of the common denominators had to do with the reason why women entered into the system, and a lot of that had to do with involvement with substances--and not necessarily substance abuse, but sometimes that was also an underlying factor--so that the war on drugs has greatly affected the increase or has been the basis for the increase in black women's entry into the criminal justice system and into correctional facilities.

GORDON: Ann Jacobs, talk to me about some of the solutions, some of the things that are trying to curb this number, stop this problem, because we should note the tremendous effect it has on children, maternal incarceration.

Ms. JACOBS: Yeah, that's right. I think we have to look in two places. We have to look at the system as well as what can be done, you know, on an individual basis. I mean, part of what contributes to this problem is that our drug enforcement is disproportionately focused on poor communities and on street-level activity, which pulls more people of color into the system. And then our response, rather than treatment and family supports, is to load on harsh penalties. So not only do we have extremely harsh sentencing policy which could be changed, we have these enhancements where if you are arrested within a certain distance of a school, no matter, you know, whether it's summer vacation or 12:00 at night, the penalties just load up. And then you've got the reality of the fact that, you know, these women are overwhelmingly at low levels of drug trade, if they're involved in that at all. Nevertheless, they get stuck with very stiff penalties because they're the girlfriend of someone who may be more complicit. And then very few cases go to trial. They're all, you know, plea bargained out. So you've got women doing much more serious time than men in the situation that might...

GORDON: Yeah.

Ms. JACOBS: ...be more complicit. So a lot of what needs to change is the focus of our system. It should be on creating treatment in the community and supports to having families stay together and work. It does no one any good for the norm to be putting people in prison...

GORDON: No.

Ms. JACOBS: ...separating families and putting kids in foster care.

GORDON: And, Paula Johnson, with about 40 seconds left, it is important to understand the preventative measures that should be taken for young girls before they get in trouble, correct?

Prof. JOHNSON: Yes, absolutely. And I would say that if the society re-prioritized its focus, then we would spend much more of our resources and our time on preventative measures and meeting basic human needs, and we would see a tremendous difference in what happens in our criminal justice system, such as the decline would be as dramatic as the increase has been in the absence of that kind of support.

GORDON: All right. Ann Jacobs, executive director of the Women's Prison Association, and Paula Johnson, law professor at Syracuse University. Ladies, I thank you for being with us today.

Ms. JACOBS: Thank you.

Prof. JOHNSON: Thank you very much.

GORDON: All right. Coming up, Bush's numbers continue to fall, and internal e-mails shed new light on FEMA's poor response to Katrina. All that to come on our Roundtable.

This is NPR News.

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