Roundtable: Pryor's Impact, NABJ Anniversary

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ED GORDON, host:

OK. We're back now. We're going to get the roundtable going. We should note that we are joined now by George Curry, editor in chief of the National Newspaper Publishers Association News Service in Laurel, Maryland. Also with us, Robert George, editorial writer for the New York Post, and Callie Crossley, commentator on the show "Beat the Press," which airs in Boston. She joins us from WGBH in Boston, Massachusetts.

I thank you all for joining us today. It's been a little harried for everyone here, but we wanted to give as much time to a man, Robert George, who clearly we should note was a social and political icon beyond just being a great comedian and that is the late Richard Pryor.

Mr. ROBERT GEORGE (New York Post): Yeah, that's definitely true and if you're--if people are in New York or in DC and they have a chance to see--hear Paul Mooney in concert, you still get an element of some of the things that Richard Pryor was talking about. I think one of the ironies is--that Mr. Stanley Crouch brought this up about how Pryor was able to bring out the social commentary aspect whereas the downside of it was, in Stanley's view and the view of some others, is the sort of devaluation where everybody, a lot of the hip-hop groups are all using the N-word.

But the irony is, if you look at some of the obituaries that are running in the papers, they talk about this great man of comedy. They talk about the movies and this and that, but very rarely do the mainstream papers actually print the names of the albums. You don't--you have to like dig around and you don't actually see "Bicentennial Nigger," which is the name of the album, or "That Nigger's Crazy." They don't mention them. They just talk about, you know, the hard-edged comedy. So it's kind of funny that he opened the door using the word at a time when not too many were using it and now everybody's using it but the papers don't want to use it.

GORDON: Here's the irony, too, George Curry, the idea that after a trip from Africa--or to Africa, when he returned, he denounced using the word and the latter part of his performances and his life, he did not publicly within his stand-up use the word `nigger.'

Mr. GEORGE CURRY (National Newspaper Publishers Association News Service): To his credit, he stopped using it and it was a big growth period for him and I applaud him for that. You know, I think the thing to remember, too, is like, you know, Richard Pryor had really perfected his craft. And you said something earlier that struck me. You said he's `profound and profane,' Ed. I mean, that pretty much describes Richard Pryor. But I've watched young comedians now and I can see it. I see they're basically trying to mimic Richard Pryor, whether it's him having a conversation with a dog or talking about funny situations. You see so much them trying to mimic Richard Pryor and there's too much emphasis on the profane and not enough on the profound. He really did capture a slice of America.

GORDON: Callie, here's the interesting point that I found as I watched the coverage over the weekend, as Robert was talking about, what was written in papers and certainly on television. I was, quite frankly, expecting to see far more than I saw on Richard Pryor. There were a couple of newscasts that he was a 20-second news read and then they went on and then there were some quick salutes to him on some of the programs. But white America had an interesting relationship with Richard Pryor. While they embraced him in the '70s, there was a sense of him making white America face certain things that were not just in this country and almost making them laugh at theirselves as well as their ills in terms of the oppression that African-Americans still felt from this society.

Ms. CALLIE CROSSLEY ("Beat the Press"): I don't think it was so much that as I actually think it was people just are ahistorical and don't really understand--some of the people who are programming their news programs understand the kind, the level of significance that this man brought, not only to the comedic world but also to social commentary. And so that's--I attribute that to some of the lack of understanding and the prominence of his story, though I think you'll see more of it as days progress. And I also think you'll see more of it, frankly, when more of the white comedians step up and remind people of the kind of influence that he had, not only on their own careers and the shaping of their own comedic routes but also what he had to say about social commentary.

And then I look at something like Comedy Central and I see that show "The Mind of Mencia," the guy--the comedian. And he reminds me--he's an Hispanic comedian. He reminds me in some way of that sort of mixing of both that sharp satiric edge that Richard had but very, very funny.

Mr. GEORGE: And if you see it--it's also evident in both the comic strip and the Cartoon Network's "The Boondocks" as well. That's very much--I mean, that's very much keeping within that legacy as well.

GORDON: But, George, doesn't this speak to where African-Americans place within the mainstream media of the importance of our contributions, our lives? I think back to the discussion that we had here and many of the ires that were raised when John Johnson barely got blurbs throughout mainstream newspapers and certainly newscasts. The same can be said, to a great degree, when Luther Vandross died. While he certainly made "Entertainment Tonight," "Access Hollywood" and there were mentions on some of the national newscasts. It was very quick.

With Richard Pryor, perhaps no more comedian--black comedian save Bill Cosby had crossed over in the same way and maybe Godfrey Cambridge, but outside of that, here was a true icon, and again, I go back to just the volume of coverage. Should they have to be reminded what Richard Pryor was? I think if someone--you know, heaven forbid, someone like a Robin Williams or a Jerry Seinfeld were to pass away, we would see far more coverage I would bet.

Mr. CURRY: Well, I mean, he or she who has the gold makes the rule. That's the golden rule. And when it comes to decision making in the media, you don't have a whole lot of African-Americans doing that. You know, I want to go back to something else. I mean, the thing that strikes you about Richard Pryor is that he can have conversation with animals--I remember the deer or the dogs--and make that funny. You know, he said--he had a conversation with a dog. I remember him talking about a dog, `It's been chasing me every day.' And the dog says, `Oh, sorry to hear the bad news but I'll be chasing you again tomorrow.' I mean, he just had the natural wit to make the ordinary seem extraordinary and make us all laugh.

Ms. CROSSLEY: I wonder also, Ed, the fact that a lot of his genius and his reputation was built around albums. It was only in later years when he did--some of his stand-up was televised or filmed. And so, you know, that's not--some of those may not have been transferred to DVD. I don't know where we are in that technology, but that may also speak to some of the disconnect that folks have about understanding where he is in an iconic way.

Mr. GEORGE: I think also, too, actually in the--today you're starting to see a little bit more memorials. CNN this morning was--had a segment devoted to it, so you may see more in the next couple of days.

GORDON: Yeah. I'm sure the argument will be that they were on weekend staff, weekend crew. It's not--but I promise you this, having worked at major news organizations, had it been a major white comedian that they felt was iconic or a social changer, they would have brought people in.

Mr. GEORGE: Yeah, and I think it's also the case, and this is--the tragic aspect of it is that, you know, his illness of the last, you know, 15 or more years also causes people, you know, to forget the fully vitality of what was going on. You know, it's almost this kind of odd aspect that when you have some icons, when they die young, you know, they're immediacy...

GORDON: Yeah.

Mr. GEORGE: ...is perceived so much greater. Like the remembrance of John Lennon, for example.

GORDON: Right.

Mr. GEORGE: And people forget when somebody's dying at this particular age.

GORDON: Let me do this, George. With about a minute left, I'll turn to you since you're the dean here in this aspect. The National Association of Black Journalists celebrates an anniversary here, 30 years. December 12th, 1975, a group of black journalists gathered to talk about the ills, talk about just what we're mentioning even today, the idea of representation in newsrooms across the country. Real quick, with about a minute to go, talk to us about the importance of this.

Mr. CURRY: Quite important. The NABJ has basically held the industry's feet to the fire and we've made a tremendous amount of progress but we have so much more to go. And what has happened basically is there was a goal. By the year 2000, the industry newsrooms were supposed to look like America itself. Well, they didn't come close to reaching that goal. Now they've set it back to 2025. And I doubt if they'll reach it then, but it's had a tremendous impact. And also you see other groups like the Latinos and the Asians patterning themselves after NABJ and it's made a great contribution.

GORDON: Well, we just wanted to salute that. Perhaps later in the week we'll talk more about it. And we'll get to the topics we were going to cover today later on in the week on our roundtable, but we felt it appropriate to talk about Richard Pryor a little bit more in context of the social implications of his comedy and all that he brought forth to us.

Mr. GEORGE: Rightly so.

GORDON: Yes, absolutely. Robert George, Callie Crossley, George Curry, thank you so much for joining us today. Greatly appreciate it.

Ms. CROSSLEY: Thank you.

Mr. CURRY: OK.

GORDON: Coming up, Delphi is the latest automobile industry company that says it must cut salaries to stay competitive, but workers say they'll fight back. And a conversation with Grammy-nominated singer Anthony Hamilton.

(Soundbite of song)

Mr. ANTHONY HAMILTON: (Singing) If you find love, hold on for life. Lord, I know that you are there. I feel a burning in my bones.

GORDON: You're listening to NEWS & NOTES from NPR News.

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