Guys in the Shop Talk Politics, Sean Bell

Copyright © 2009 National Public Radio®. For personal, noncommercial use only. See Terms of Use. For other uses, prior permission required.

MICHEL MARTIN, host:

And now, it's time for our weekly visit to the Barbershop where the guys talk about what's in the news and what's on their minds. Sitting in the chairs for a shape-up this week are freelance writer, Jimi Izrael, civil rights attorney and editor, Arsalan Iftikhar, syndicated columnist, Ruben Navarrette and I'm welcoming him to the shop for his first cut, columnist, Emil Guillermo. I may jump in once or twice, but for now, take it away Jimi.

JIMI IZRAEL: Hey, thanks so much, Michel. Fellas. What's up. Welcome to the shop, how we doing?

ARSALAN IFTIKHAR: Hey, hey, hey.

Mr. EMIL GUILLERMO (Columnist): Good, man.

RUBEN NAVARRETTE: Good.

IZRAEL: You know what, and you know it just keeps on going. After winning Indiana by a narrow margin and losing North Carolina, Senator Hillary Clinton vows to stay in the race, despite growing pressure to quit from all corners. She's even loaning her campaign money. Six point four million dollars out of her own pocket. Yo, Emil, the Real Deal. My man. Why should Hillary stay in the case?

Mr. GUILLERMO: Look in comfort terms, Hillary is just calling. She is not raising right? 6.4. She is not necessarily part committed. So I think we have to ask ourselves who wants her to stay, not who wants her to go. A lot of people are saying go. The media is leading the charge. Ask who wants her to stay, and there's a lot of people who want her to stay. Asian-Americans for example, I think overwhelmingly went for her in California. They want her to stay. Other people want her to stay. Let this play out. I think that's only fair at this point. Don't you think guys?

IZRAEL: You know what, I am inclined to agree with that, Real Deal, but it's like this here. You know, I look at it more like she can stay in the race because if Obama is going to become the choice, we need it to be like an unequivocal success. It can't be like, he is the only choice because Hillary bowed out.

MARTIN: Wait up, hold up. Let me ask you this. Who cares?

IZRAEL: OK. That's just how I feel about it.

MARTIN: I mean, I'm sorry Bill Clinton was elected by a plurality, and he still got to be president and need we go in to the details by which George W. Bush attained office the first time, so, Arsalan.

IFTIKHAR: I think - I mean if we are going to stick to poker analogies here, I think Barack has pocket rockets which is a pair of aces and Hillary has a two-three off suit.

Mr. GUILLERMO: But she is better than that?

IFTIKHAR: No, not with two aces showing on the table. She is mathematically out, and this is just a pure exercise in hubris and arrogance, and even her own former supporters, like Senator George McGovern realized that and are trying to bring the party together. November is not that far away guys. We need a unified Democratic Party in order to challenge and beat Senator John McCain.

IZRAEL: Ruben.

NAVARRETTE: Just a couple of things. Arsalan is right that this doesn't pencil up mathematically for Hillary Clinton anymore This is not what it was two or three months ago. Even Diane Feinstein who was one of the first senators to come out for Hillary Clinton and endorse her says she wants to sit down with Hillary and have Hillary explain to her, Feinstein, how this works. You know, show me how you get to the White House. How you get the nomination. Because there are not enough delegates left on the table, even if you start counting Florida and Michigan for you to make this work, and so that's a fair point. But there is an uglier side to this.

Barack Obama has beaten Hillary Clinton in fund raising, in the number of state victories almost two-to-one in the overall delegate count. The only thing that Hillary has going for her, now listen closely. I will get in trouble for this. I know it. You are going to get letters for this. The only thing she has going for her in the minds of some Clinton operatives is that Barack Obama is black.

MARTIN: Hey guys, earlier we played a clip of Senator Hillary Clinton. In this interview with reporter Kathy Keeley, she explains why her presidential run is important and or necessary for the Democratic Party. She said that there was an AP article posted that found out how Obama support among hard-working white Americans is weakening again and how the whites in both states who have not completed college are supporting her, and she pointed out with the independents she is running even with Obama and doing better with Democratic-leaning independents. She has she has a broader base to build a coalition on. Ruben, you want to weigh in on that?

NAVARRETTE: She's already put it out there. I mean, she flat out said, I'm doing better with white voters. There are some white voters out there that Barack Obama can't win. She flat out said it. So I can't believe she put it out there, but now that she has, you know, she deserves to be hung on her own petard because she said it. But beyond that, I got stuck on one phrase she mentioned. Hard-working, white Americans. OK? Hard-working white Americans. These would be the same hardworking, white Americans who in many cases aren't doing the jobs that Mexican immigrants are doing. These would be the same hard-working Americans - white Americans that aren't doing jobs that black Americans are doing, and have been doing. Black Americans and brown Americans and purple Americans are just as hard working as any other group of Americans. This is outrageous.

IZRAEL: You know what's interesting? Rush Limbaugh has declared his Operation Chaos a success. Now you may recall, Operation Chaos was this call to all Republicans to temporarily cross party lines to short circuit Barack Obama by voting for Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary because it's generally accepted that while Clinton could not win, Obama could stand a good chance. Now, I don't know what his logic on that is. I mean, do we think that he had any kind of effect on this race one way or another? A-train, check in!

IFTIKHAR: If you look at the examples, you know, the Limbaugh effect is minimal at best. But it shows the duplicity and disingenuousness of people like him when on the one hand, before the vote he was saying, you know, that one candidate was the stronger or weaker candidate. And then he flipped when Barack won North Carolina and barely Indiana. He switched sides - I mean, it's Republican, you know, political hanky-panky at its best.

NAVARRETTE: Look, I'm a Rush fan. I've been listening to Rush for a long time. I like Rush most of the time. But I'll tell you what, the biggest effect has been from within the Democratic Party, the mistakes that the Clinton camp have made and all kudos to Barack Obama for running a good campaign.

IZRAEL: I don't think Limbaugh had any effect whatsoever. Real Deal, check in!

Mr. GUILLERMO: Yeah, I don't think Limbaugh had much of an effect. I think it's been shown throughout the campaign that the talk show hosts have been - their impact has been lesser than people have realized. But I think one thing to note this week is that John McCain, at least four people in his camp have floated the name of Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal, an Asian-American as a possible vice-presidential nominee. So they're looking to an Asian-American as a person to combat Barack Obama.

This was reported in the Times, and I think the idea of a Jindal ticket with McCain - Jindal is like practically intravenous Viagra for McCain. I mean, in the sense that you've got an old guy, and you've got this really person of color who's not really a person of color. He's kind of the colorblind right versus Obama who is colorblind left. And I think it's going to be an interesting post-affirmative action kind of presidential race if Obama's the nominee. Who's going to be his vice president?

MARTIN: Ruben, what are you hearing about that?

NAVARRETTE: You know, he's a - Jindal would be a very appealing candidate. You need somebody who - the governor would help, somebody who's younger, somebody who's dynamic. And I think he's a good choice. I think a better choice would be someone like a female governor - Republican governor - somebody to, sort of, really spice up the ticket. McCain could do better than putting up another older, white male, frankly.

Mr. GUILLERMO: But the idea about Jindal is that if people were afraid of Barack Obama as commander-in-chief, they could go with McCain, and Jindal would be the change agent. In an election about change Jindal is, you know, McCain's loose change.

(Soundbite of laughter)

IZRAEL: Maybe Jindal will change McCain's diapers or, you know, anybody with a pulse actually makes McCain look good. Let's keep it moving. Now when the Reverend Al Sharpton was arrested along with several others during a demonstration to protest the acquittal of three police officers in the 50-bullet shooting of an unarmed man named Sean Bell on his wedding day, November 2006. He's trying to raise awareness about this. He had a couple of hundred people there. Two hundred were arrested. Among them were Sharpton, Nicole Bell, his widow, also Sean Bell's parents. Several of those people have since been released. But Emil, what do you think Sharpton can do to help raise awareness about this incident?

Mr. GUILLERMO: Listen, Jimi. I'm down with Sharpton. I met him once in a men's room. Larry Craig was not there. But I did meet him once.

IZRAEL: Ooh TMI!

(Soundbite of laughter)

NAVARRETTE: Let me just say that I am all for whatever Sharpton does in the community. I am a big Sharpton fan. But I only wish he would do more when its not community versus the oppressor, but where he talks to the community about things that the community has done wrong. And that's the only thing that gets me. I'm all for Sharpton. I think that Sharpton could bring a tremendous amount of publicity to a situation and get some people to act, but I only wish he was a little more diverse in his tactics.

IZRAEL: I'm going to have to co-sign that. You know, I'm kind of an on-and-off critic of the good Reverend Al Sharpton. But I think when he's on, he's on. But when he's off, he's completely off. A-train?

IFTIKHAR: Well, I think in this case the Reverend was actually trying to bolster and re-legitimize his street cred by getting arrested. I think he was trying to keep himself relevant, and to be honest, anyone who's willing to get arrested for something that they believe in, you know, you got to respect that whether or not you agree with him on all issues.

IZRAEL: Ruben.

NAVARRETTE: I'm with you, Jimi. I'm sort of on-and-off on Sharpton too. Most of the time off. You know, I've referred to him and Jesse Jackson as professional grievance merchants who very much enhance their bottom line by getting radio shows and speaking engagements off things like this.

IZRAEL: Ch-ching!

NAVARRETTE: However, having said that, given when you have something like this that is egregious or that needs to - or that's a worthwhile cause that needs to be brought to light, I'm all for it. And if he's willing to go to jail for it, you know, I think that's a stand-up thing. I can't fault him on this instance. I think it's a disturbing case with a disturbing outcome. And the question I always come back to is if he doesn't do this, who's going to do it?

MARTIN: I'm sorry, guys. I just have to interrupt for a second. If you're just joining us this is our weekly visit to the Barbershop. We're visiting with Jimi Izrael, Ruben Navarrette, Emil Guillermo and Arsalan Iftikhar. Back to you, Jimi.

IZRAEL: In Philly, cops were caught using excessive force beating and kicking three suspects severely as a news helicopter camera rolls. Kind of shades of Rodney King? A-train, have you seen it?

IFTIKHAR: I'm still speechless by it. I mean, if you go to YouTube and watch the clip, it looks like the royal rumble. It looks, I mean, it is police officers kicking and beating the living life out of three guys who are suspected in a shooting who were not, you know, not convicted of any crime. This was police brutality at its worst. As a civil rights lawyer, these police officers need to be charged criminally. This had nothing to do with police procedure. This was just excessive force. And on another note, very quickly, the police chief - former D.C. Police Chief Ramsey said that a lot of them were dealing with a lot of stress because one of their colleagues was recently shot and killed in the line of duty during a botched armed robbery, but this is no way to take out stress.

IZRAEL: You know what? I'm going to jump in here with a bit of a devils advocate thing now. For the record, you know, my best friend is a cop. And you know, there's the way you behave first of all when the police stop you. You don't run. And I'm not sure, from the sky it looks pretty egregious, and the guys are both kicked, I think, 20 times each, which is - that's...

Mr. GUILLERMO: That's amazing.

IZRAEL: Yeah, that is amazing. But I don't know, I'm always...

MARTIN: You're willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. That's what you're telling us.

IZRAEL: I am. Because these police officers have to get home at the end of the day. And you know, this chasing suspects that they think may be involved in a shooting, you know, I mean, I don't know...

IFTIKHAR: Come on! Dude, there were four blue jerseys for every white jersey there.

NAVARRETTE: Yeah, and they were kicking on and wailing on it. And this was not about subduing somebody. This was about - you know, my own background, obviously on this, my dad was a career cop for 37 years, and I grew up in a family of cops - but I'll tell you what, this was a case obviously of excessive force. And not trying to subdue somebody, but a mixture of adrenaline and the kind of anger that Jimi's talking about because these cops do want to go home at the end of the shift. And when you end up in a chase with cops, you know, you're putting yourself and all those cops in jeopardy. I guess what the cops are thinking are of, how dare you! How dare you, you know, speed to these limits, put my life in jeopardy and risk me not going home to be with my kids. Basically, subjecting my kids to a life without a father so you can get your thrill ride. And then they're laying into this guy. So that doesn't excuse it, but it certainly is the context for it.

MARTIN: I do have to say though that the mayor and the police chief are both African-American in Philadelphia, and they both said, they asked the community to have patience and they also said that this whole situation should play out. So in essence they're saying that they're taking it seriously and that this matter is going to be investigated, which is not always the way it's been in matters like this, right? Does that?

Mr. GUILLERMO: I thought all the cops were white. I thought all the cops were white from the looks of it. And that's a lot of cops, and they were all white.

MARTIN: I don't know. I think it's pretty hard to tell.

IFTIKHAR: It was horrifying.

IZRAEL: The helicopters were you know, a good 30 or 50 feet in the air. I mean, I don't know, I don't think - I don't know that we can call it. And I have to cosign with the city officials and let this thing play out.

Well, let's keep it moving. For some odd reason, like the stars aligned and Kobe Bryant is this year's MVP. I mean, it's almost like LeBron James doesn't exist!

IFTIKHAR: Yeah, or Kevin Garnett.

IZRAEL: Wait! Hold on, hold on, A-train, A-train, A-train! Now let's be honest, does Kobe Bryant really deserve to be MVP?

IFTIKHAR: I don't think so. I think the most valuable player in the NBA for any sports junkie, it's all about the impact that the person has had on the team. Kevin Garnett and the Boston Celtics had a 42-game turnaround to the best record in the NBA at 66 and 16, and he got third place. Chris Paul of the New Orleans Hornets who had a gangsta' year was second place. But I mean, in fairness I thought it was going to be between Kobe and Kevin Garnett. Kobe got it because he's never gotten it before.

Mr. GUILLERMO: No, no. That's not why he got it. He got - Kobe got it because they need to revive his image. And they need to forget about Colorado and his sexual escapades. And this was the NBA saying, hey, we need a star and Kobe is in market number, I don't know, one or two depending on how you count. We need to revive. This is sort of - opens a door to that.

MARTIN: You're saying this is rigged?

IZRAEL: Crush the pearls! The R, get in here, man. Get in here.

NAVARRETTE: I don't know. There may be something to this media market business. The fact that Kobe comes from Los Angeles. This can't be, you know, completely irrelevant in all this unfortunately. Cleveland ain't L.A. in the minds of some of these sports writers unfortunately.

IZRAEL: Hold on, hold on! Ruben, have you seen Kobe's shoe, and have you seen LeBron's shoe? Case closed bro!

NAVARRETTE: My understanding is...

IZRAEL: Case closed! Case closed!

Mr. GUILLERMO: Jimi's going by the kicks.

IZRAEL: Yeah, but have you seen Chris Paul dish?

NAVARRETTE: That's true, that's true.

IFTAKHAR: They're all gangsters. They're all gangsters.

IZRAEL: LeBron's the man. LeBron's the man. But congratulations, Kobe. And to my left coast family, congratulations to you guys. You guys got an MVP. I'm not happy about it, but that's life in the big city. And speaking of life in the big city, gentlemen, I think that's a wrap. I want to thank you so much for joining this session of the Barbershop. And I have to dish it over to our own MVP, the lady of the house, Michel Martin.

MARTIN: You got that right. Jimi Izrael is a freelance writer and contributor to theroot.com. He joined us from WCPN in Cleveland. Ruben Navarrette is a writer for the San Diego Union Tribune and cnn.com. He joined us from KOGO insane Diego. Emil Guillermo is a columnist and blogger for AsianWeek. He joined us from PAXAT (ph) studios in Sacramento. And Arsalan Iftakhar is a civil rights attorney and contributing editor for Islamica Magazine. He joined us in our Washington studio. Guys, thanks so much for joining us in the shop today.

Mr. GUILLERMO: Thanks.

IFTIKHAR: Peace.

NAVARRETTE: See ya.

IZRAEL: Yup yup!

MARTIN: And that's our program for today.

Copyright ©2009 National Public Radio®. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to National Public Radio. This transcript is provided for personal, noncommercial use only, pursuant to our Terms of Use. Any other use requires NPR's prior permission. Visit our permissions page for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by a contractor for NPR, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of NPR's programming is the audio.