Argentinean Jew Makes Israel Home

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MICHEL MARTIN, host:

Moving on now to the international scene. We have talked a lot about the issue of race this year, in part because of the historic facts of the presidential election. It's important to note that the U.S. is not the only country that faces the challenge of creating a nation out of a mosaic of races and cultures. President Bush is in the Middle East this week, and one of his stops is Israel, where he will help celebrate the 60th anniversary of the founding of the state. A state like the U.S., that draws its citizens from around the world.

In a few minutes we will hear from two relatively new immigrants from Ethiopia. A little later in the week we will hear a Palestinian perspective. But first, the South American experience. In the 1960s and '70s, thousands of Jews from Argentina, Chile, and Brazil made a home in Israel. People like Mario Sznajder. He was born in Argentina in 1948, the same year Israel was born. Mario Sznajder is now a professor of political science at the Hebrew University at Jerusalem. He joins us now by phone from Jerusalem. Professor, welcome to the program.

Dr. MARIO SZNAJDER (Political Science, Hebrew University): Thank you for having me.

MARTIN: And I should say happy birthday.

Dr. SZNAJDER: Yes, thank you. Yes, it is - well, actually I was born a bit before the state, in January '48. But yeah, I celebrate together with the state, more or less.

MARTIN: OK. Now as I said you were born in Argentina, I think you were raised in Chile, as I understand it. When you were growing up, what did this new state mean to you?

Dr. SZNAJDER: Well, Israel was a very young country, as you know, and as a young country still had rather high ideological levels and Zionism then. The National Liberation Movement of the Jewish people that wanted to bring every Jew to Israel was still somehow actual then. And people like me who were educated, we got formal normal national education both in Argentina and in Chile, but we also got very strong doses of Jewish and Zionist education. So, yes, as I grew up I thought more and more about Israel because it had already developed as a modern country with a very good academic establishment.

MARTIN: Now as I understand it, you moved to Israel when you were 18?

Dr. SZNAJDER: Yes.

MARTIN: At the time, did you think it would become your permanent home?

Dr. SZNAJDER: At the beginning when I came I thought about studying here, but I can't say that I had a total decision about staying here. And we have to remember another thing. I came in '66, and many dramatic things happened immediately afterwards, in '67 and the years afterwards until '73. So somehow I internalized, or I absorbed, Israel through these rather traumatic, personal and historical experiences.

MARTIN: Well, you know, that's the question though that I had. Because some people confronted with these, as you said, these very dramatic circumstances might say, you know, I don't need this. I don't necessarily want to live in such challenging circumstances. But for other people it's very different. It creates a sense of unity, a sense of wanting to belong to be part of building this new thing. Do you remember what effect all that had on you? There was the '67 war, of course, the Six Day War, and so forth?

Dr. SZNAJDER: Yeah. I think that the results speak by themselves. I stayed here. Finally, I built my own family here. I had a professional career. But when you live through wars, and you see people you know dying for the country, and you see the amount of sacrifice, then I think it's very difficult to avoid feeling part of it.

MARTIN: Sometimes when people immigrate it's what they're going to, but it's also what they're leaving. When you left South America did you feel unwelcome there, as a Jew?

Dr. SZNAJDER: Undoubtedly there were problems. If you remember, in 1960 the Israeli intelligence kidnapped Adolf Eichmann in Buenos Aires. And then he was executed in Israel as an indicted Nazi war criminal, no? But the counterpart in Argentinean society was the extreme right of social anti-Semitism. And I couldn't become a total member of Argentinean society because as a Jew I suffered from social anti-Semitism. And I as a young person thought that within all these dilemmas, perhaps as a Jew I belong more to Israel - where I wanted anyway to study - than where I was living at the time.

MARTIN: And I'm going to ask you about that. When you moved to Israel did you immediately feel a sense of belonging, or did that take time?

Dr. SZNAJDER: It worked both ways because, yes, there was a sense of familiarity. From another side, I was a new immigrant. Doesn't matter how you look at it, you are somehow alien.

MARTIN: You've had the rare experience, as we have said, of living in a country almost since its inception. How has it changed since you first moved there?

Dr. SZNAJDER: Very much, I would say. When I arrived to Israel in 1966 this country was poor country, I would say. With very open people, with a very high level of public trust, and with very, very low levels of crime. Yes, there were probably thieves, but most of the people felt safe enough in order not to lock their homes. And well, this is gone.

MARTIN: Do you miss the early days?

Dr. SZNAJDER: Yes. Yes and no. We like better cars and being able to travel abroad, and having all the comfort that affluence brings with. But the social consequences of affluence and the, perhaps, deterioration of public life in this country are disliked by many here.

MARTIN: Mario Sznajder is a professor of Political Science at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, in Israel. He joined us from his home in Jerusalem. Thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. SZNAJDER: Thank you for calling me.

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