Panel: Should Clinton Drop Out?
MADELEINE BRAND, host:
And for some more political analysis, we're joined now by columnist Gestavo Arellano of askamexican.net, diversity consultant and blogger Carman Van Kerchove, and our comedy duo known as Frangela, Angela Shelton and Francis Callier. Welcome all of you.
Mr. GUSTAVO ARELLANO (Columnist, AskaMexican.net): Hi.
Ms. CARMEN VAN KERCHOVE (Blogger): Hi.
Ms. ANGELA SHELTON (Comedian): Hi.
Ms. FRANCIS CALLIER (Comedian): Hi.
BRAND: OK. Well, let's pick up where John and Alex left off and talk about Hillary. Should she or should she not exit, and let's start with you Angela.
Ms. SHELTON: I guess I've always been confused by this question. Because it's never been a surprise when these primaries were coming, and the Democratic National Committee made these dates including Howard Dean, so every time he acts like she's just refusing to leave the party, like she's the one downstairs refusing to understand that the keg is empty everybody else has left. The reality is, the vote takes place at the convention.
Ms. CALLIER: I think she should go.
BRAND: Francis, you think she should go?
Ms. CALLIER: I think she should go. We need to unite this party. And you know I've said it before, I think she's the better candidate. I think that Barack is a better movement.
BRAND: And Gustavo?
Mr. ARELLANO: This campaign is in tatters. She has to leave. She's what, 31 million dollars in debt, she's increasingly becoming more and more bickering, throwing jabs at anybody who doesn't want to believe in her gospel that she was meant to be president. And I'm tired of Hillary Clinton. And I know nowadays we expect our candidates to be done way before the convention. It's not like the old days. When was the last time the Democrats had to fight over the convention? I think it was 68, and look at what happened there.
BRAND: And Carmen Van Kerchove, what do you think? And I wonder if you could address what Hillary Clinton has been complaining of recently in an article in the Washington Post yesterday, where she says her campaign has been dogged by sexism on the part of some people who attend her rallies, on the part of the media, and of the part of political commentators all over the place.
Ms. VAN KERCHOVE: Whether or not Clinton should or should not go is really up to Clinton. But it just seems like the odds are against her. I mean this Gallup poll that came out yesterday, shows that Obama is sweeping every single demographic, except for women aged 50 and older. The criticisms that sexism exist are valid, but I don't think that sexism has been an orchestrated campaign tactic from the Obama camp.
BRAND: Angela, as our lone Hillary supporter on this panel, what do you say to that?
Ms. SHELTON: It actually has nothing to do with my point. I have to say number one, I keep hearing this comparison to '68, and I just don't think it's accurate or fair. In '68 we were in the middle of the rights movement, there were massive riots all around the country. It's absolutely a completely different situation.
Ms. CALLIER: And we're different people.
Ms. SHELTON: Try to compare the convention then to a convention now? It's an unfair and kind of simplistic comparison. Further, neither of them will reach the number of delegates, they can't mathematically, that would put them at 2,025 which would make them the presumptive nominee. Neither of them will.
Ms. CALLIER: Here we've had for the last seven years, we haven't been able to talk about anything, about what our government was doing about who was in our government. You weren't patriotic, you weren't supporting the troops, it wasn't appropriate. Now we have this opportunity, for yes for a long time, to do that, and people want to shut it up. I want to hear everything up until that convention. And as for the tit for tat insulting each other back and forth, I've heard it from both sides. I've heard the Hillary people say Obama campaign attacks them and it's sexist, I've heard the Obama people say Hillary attacks the affirmative action candidates, and blah blah blah.
The reality is when it comes to issues of isms - racism, not so much homophobia, people tend to be a little more out in the open about that unfortunately, but racism and sexism, people lie, you know. And that's why the polling is so off. When people walk out of a poll they're not going to say oh I didn't vote for the black guy 'cause he's black. Even people in the Klan don't say that. You ask the Klan member if he doesn't like black people, and he's says no, I just love white people. Like they won't even say it so I think there's so many X factors here, it's hard to predict.
BRAND: Gustavo, I heard you wanted to jump in here.
Mr. ARELLANO: Unless you're in West Virginia. It's interesting with Obama. A lot of people have insinuated that Barack's the Manchurian Muslim really, just waiting to assume the position of the White House and then allow al-Qaeda into this country. Even though he has no connection with Islam other than his father, who apparently never really practiced Islam, and he has had more of a challenge to face then Clinton just based on the status, if you want to call it, their isms.
Ms. CALLIER: Yeah, I guess. I feel like that debate is not, you know, people are going to argue that from both sides. What I think is, we as voters we should be offended because we've been attacked by the media. For the first time in one of the pollings this morning, I was reading an article where they actually polled for in Kentucky to see who was a non-college graduate and who they voted for.
Ms. CALLIER: Yeah, I feel like that debate is not - you know people are going to argue both on each side.
BRAND: Yeah, yeah.
Mr. ARELLANO: Yeah.
Ms. CALLIER: For me what I think as voters we should be offended because we've been attacked by the media. For the first time in one of the pollings, after an election this morning, I was reading an article where they actually polled to see who is a non-college graduate and who they voted for.
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: There's a new definition of white working class, the subtle insult that lies behind it...
Ms. CALLIER: Yes.
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: Is that, you know, they're uneducated...
Ms. CALLIER: Yeah, uneducated. They're stupid, they don't know what's good for them and it's wrong. Its classist and I don't appreciate it. What most people should know about the working class, is that most of it thinks it's middle class.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. CALLIER: They have no idea that we're talking about them.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. CALLIER: You know?
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: I think it is interesting how we are sort of seeing white people stereotyped in a way.
Ms. CALLIER: Exactly.
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: Where suddenly we're hearing people talking about the white vote, and the so called white vote seems to divide either into the "hard working Americans" which seems to be the Kentucky...
Ms. CALLIER: Right.
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: Supposedly uneducated crowd that you're talking about. Then there is that sort of lack of surprise that Obama won Oregon because there's this assumption, that well there's all those Portland people who eat, you know, organic vegetables and drink gourmet coffee.
Ms. CALLIER: The intellectually elite.
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: White voters are being stereotyped in some of the same ways I think other groups have been stereotyped in the past.
BRAND: Uh huh.
Ms. CALLIER: Yeah we all have. We talked about at our last round table about the minority vote. All Black people are voting for Obama, and you know Barack can't get Latino support, and I think we've all proven those things not to be true, too.
BRAND: I'd like to close by asking each of you as the primary season winds to a close, and we begin to gear up for the general election and campaign season, an issue each one of you wants to see discussed that perhaps hasn't gotten the attention during this long, long primary season and I'll start with you, Gustavo.
Mr. ARELLANO: Immigration. You know both Barack and Hillary, they have positions on immigration, but if you ask me what they were I wouldn't be able to tell you. The only person who had any specifics was Tom Pancreto and he said deport them all, build a fence...
(Soundbite of laughter)
Mr. ARELLANO: We're done. That's a conversation we need to have.
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: Yeah, I agree with Gustavo. There hasn't really been an in depth conversation about immigration, and it - you know immigration is not just a Hispanic issue. This is an issue that affects people from every single country, and I think it is also very integral to the economic future of America, and to a larger point to define how America sees itself. Is America going to continue to see itself as essentially a white country that's letting in these other people, or is it really going to truly move towards multiracial, multicultural country? I think that's a huge mind shift that needs to still happen.
Ms. CALLIER: I'd like to see Americans start to produce more in this country again.
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: I'd like to get a call center back here.
Ms. CALLIER: Yeah she's had trouble with her computer.
(Soundbite of laughter)
VAN KERCKHOVE: And I'm angry about it you know. But I would like to see those jobs going back to people here in this country. I understand why they've left, but I'd like to see them come back.
Ms. CALLIER: I'm going to say for me, civil rights. None of the candidates are stepping forward on the issue of equality under the law in a way that I need to see them do it, none of them. I need to see marriage not as a religious right. It's really important I think for this nation to move forward, that our lives be more reflective of our goals. I'd love to see somebody be willing to stand out on that issue.
BRAND: Angela Shelton, Francis Callier - Frangela, Gustavo Arellano of askamexican.net, and Carmen Van Kerckhove, who's a diversity consultant and a blogger. Thank you all very much for joining us again.
Ms. CALLIER: Thank you.
Ms. VAN KERCKHOVE: Thank you.