In Bush's Final Days, Are Pardons In The Works?

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ANDREA SEABROOK, host:

President Bush has 58 days left in the White House. In the waning days of a presidency, it's become almost tradition to grant pardons - in some cases a lot of them. Mr. Bush, however, has been quite conservative with his powers of clemency, a little over 150 in eight years. Bill Clinton signed almost that many in his final day in office, including most notably that of Marc Rich, the expatriate commodities trader and the husband of a major Clinton donor. Harold Krent is the dean of the Chicago-Kent College of Law and the author of "Presidential Powers." He's in the studio of WFMT in Chicago. Hello there, Mr. Krent.

Professor HAROLD KRENT (Dean, Chicago-Kent College of Law; Author, "Presidential Powers"): Hello.

SEABROOK: Do you get a sense that Mr. Bush will sign off on this glut of pardons in the same way that Bill Clinton did?

Professor KRENT: I doubt it. I mean, if the past is prologue, he has let his august powers of granting clemency and pardons really go untouched. He doesn't seem to be interested in making any kind of statement through his exercise of the pardon powers. And the one question that we are all watching is whether he views the pardon perhaps as a potential to burnish his legacy.

SEABROOK: How do you mean?

Professor KRENT: Well, many outgoing chief executives view this as if it were the last ability to change history, to make sure that they go down with a favorable view. The most interesting set of potential pardons has to do with two series of events that have in fact not burnished, but I think undermined the historical legacy of Bush. The first, and probably the most important, is the use of torture in interrogations.

And some are of the view that President Bush may exercise the pardon power in a pre-emptive way or in a way to absolve those who were involved with interrogation that may have amounted to torture, in case they would be tried and investigated by a subsequent administration. The same may be true for his close associates - Harriet Miers, Karl Rove, and others - who were involved in allegedly obstructing justice into Congress' investigation to the discharges of the U.S. attorneys.

SEABROOK: What other sorts of political pardons could President Bush give?

Professor KRENT: Well, I mean, I think Ted Stevens comes to mind. It would be an interesting application of the pardon power if the president decided to grant him clemency in light of his long service to the country, in light of his age. Similarly, we have a question of whether Scooter Libby should not just receive the commutation of his sentence, but should be pardoned for his conduct of his office.

SEABROOK: Scooter Libby is Lewis Libby, who was the former chief of staff to Dick Cheney, who got a two-and-a-half-year prison sentence for his role in the Valerie Plame case. Can I ask you, what's the difference between commuting a sentence and pardoning someone?

Professor KRENT: When a chief executive commutes a sentence, he basically gives the individual the key to the jailhouse doors - go free. But the fact of a conviction remains on that person's record, so the individual remains a convicted felon even though they're free to go about their life.

SEABROOK: So who has President Bush pardoned?

Professor KRENT: President Bush has used the pardon, as you mentioned, sparingly, but usually for individuals who had already fulfilled their sentences, usually relatively small minor felonies, and people whose reputations then could be restored.

SEABROOK: I was looking at some of the people that President Bush has pardoned or commuted the sentences of, and President Bush has pardoned six people who were convicted of bootlegging. I just think that's funny.

Professor KRENT: Well, and that actually is sort of typical of what you look at from 19th century presidents who would use it for individuals who somehow caught the ear of a politician with a sad story of, you know, they were just caught bootlegging and drinking some moonshine at home - let them free.

SEABROOK: Harold Krent is the dean of the Chicago-Kent College of Law, and he's the author of the book "Presidential Powers." Mr. Krent, thanks very much for joining us.

Professor KRENT: All right. Thank you.

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