Violence Rattles Nigerian City

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MICHEL MARTIN, host:

I'm Michel Martin, and this is Tell Me More from NPR News. Coming up next, roll over Lil Wayne and Young Jeezy. Kids are looking up to somebody new, and he's got his pants fastened tight around his waist. That would be a certain president-elect. The moms and I talk about how the president-elect is redefining what's cool for kids.

But first, we go overseas, where a nighttime curfew remains in effect, where residents and visitors alike are experiencing an uneasy calm after days of violence. We are not talking about Mumbai in India but the Nigerian city of Jos, where fighting erupted over the weekend between Muslims and Christians, leaving an estimated 400 people dead.

We wanted to talk about why this happened and what it means for Nigeria, so we've called Constance Ikokwu. She's the Washington bureau chief for the Nigerian newspaper, This Day, and Roxanne Lawson, director of Africa policy for a TransAfrica, it's the oldest advocacy organization in Washington focusing on Latin America, Africa, and the Caribbean. They're both here with me in the studio. Welcome to you both. Thank you for joining us.

Ms. CONSTANCE IKOKWU (Washington Bureau Chief, This Day Newspaper): Thank you.

Ms. ROXANNE LAWSON (Director of Africa Policy, TransAfrica): Thank you.

MARTIN: Constance, if we could start. What's the situation in Jos now? What are you hearing?

Ms. IKOKWU: Well, it's calm now. You have soldiers patrolling the streets of Jos, and the curfew is still in place. There's a bit of calm at the moment. The president has also asked the governor of Jos, Jonah Jang, not to inaugurate the new council members that were elected because the problems started when there were rumors that the Christians would win the local government election in that area. And then, you know, the Muslims, which also are part of the population in that area, you know, were not happy. So, there was crisis, and people started killing each other. Hoodlums, of course, and social miscreants took advantage of the situation.

MARTIN: Well, let me just - just to clarify. As I understand it, the governing party, the PDP, is dominated by Christians. Is that about right?

Ms. IKOKWU: No.

MARTIN: Not really?

Ms. IKOKWU: Not really. PDP is a big party in Nigeria. It has roots in every local government in the country, in the 36 states of the federation. We have Muslims and Christians in the People's Democratic Party.

But in the Jos area, the population is divided between Christians and Muslims. And the Muslims, were thinking that they would win the election, and then a Christian candidate was declared the winner, and that was where the crisis started.

MARTIN: That is where the crisis started. I was going to ask Roxanne to give your take on the underlying tensions in this area that contributed to this situation, or, as Constance was suggesting, that there were, what, social miscreants who took advantage of a political dispute. Roxanne, I want to get your take.

Ms. LAWSON: I think that all of that is true. I mean, there definitely is a schism between Muslims and Christian Animists, but as well between pastoralists and farmers, as well as between people who are considered indigenous, like who've been in that city for thousands of years as opposed to 700 years, and non-indigenous people. And so, all of those things are playing out as a backdrop of political tension.

I think at the root of it, though, is the fact that the PNP is - a part of it lots of people see is actually not fulfilling the wishes and interests of the people of Nigeria as a whole and of Jos, in that region in particular. And so, what we see is actually people who are frustrated with the political process, with what they perceive as being corruption, and are using that - they can't take it out on the political parties that are in power.

So, as we see in lots of parts of the world, they're fighting with one another, and I think that we in the United States, we just had a very politically and ethnically divided election, understand some of that, although our election went in a way that people in United States felt happy with. They think that when you are confronted with lack of political choices, some things happen, and some people resort to violence.

MARTIN: Constance, talk about the area, though. I mean, Nigeria overall is split almost evenly, right, between Muslims and Christians? It's a religiously diverse country. Is there something about this particular area that leads or lends to these kinds of conflicts because this is not the first one.

Ms. IKOKWU: Yes. I mean, the problem here is that you have the indigenous Berom people, and then you have the Hausa Muslim settlers. So, this problem dates to the creation of Nigeria as a country by the British. You know, you've always had people who do not feel that they are one country, so we've had these problems over and over and over again.

And then you also have problems like, you know, lack of progress in terms of development. You know, that's also part of the problem in the area. If one people do not feel that they have an ownership in government, when people do not feel that the government influences their lives, I think, in certain times, they will have to be thinking, oh, this is a Muslim; this is Christian. But one day, the economic progress - I think that people might not look as much as whether this is a Christian government or whether this is a Muslim government.

And then you also have the problem of - before, we used to have the eastern region, the northern region, and the western region. In the northern region, you had Christians who felt that they have being oppressed by the Muslims. But with the creation of states over the years, you have Jos now, which has a huge population of Christians who think that finally, we have our own area. Finally, we have our own state. Why should the Muslims take advantage (unintelligible)? So it's complicated, and it's a mixture of several things.

MARTIN: And if I could just clarify one point. The reporting suggested that - and you eluded to the idea that there were gangs shooting, hurting people, hitting - you know, hacking people with machetes, sort of setting fires. Are these gangs as we understand gangs in this country, as an ongoing enterprise where people have some sort of affiliation based on, what, ethnicity, neighborhood, or something like that. Is that what we're talking about here?

Ms. IKOKWU: No, we're not talking about gangs as you see it in the U.S. You just have a bunch of unemployed people who would take advantage of any situation. And then, when you have such situations come up, where you don't have security agencies come to the rescue immediately and where you don't have enough policemen patrolling the area, you know, there will be a breakdown of law and order.

And even when people are arrested, if people are not punished, next time, you have people still take advantage of the same situation. So you have a problem of a lack of security, enough security to take care of the situation. I'm not talking about the soldiers that were deployed. I am talking about policemen that are responsible for day-to-day keeping of peace and order.

MARTIN: If you're just joining us, this is Tell Me More from NPR News. We're speaking about the recent violence in Jos, the middle belt of Nigeria, with Nigerian journalist Constance Ikokwu and Roxanne Lawson of TransAfrica.

Roxanne, we're not unfamiliar with ethnically-related violence in lots of parts of the world - religiously or sectarian violence in lots of part of the world, but there are lots of places in Africa where Muslim and Christian populations do live side by side and relatively free of conflicts.

So again, I want to go back to this question if there's something about this particular area that seems to spark this level of violence. Is it something about proximity or is there something about misgovernance? You think it's specific misgovernance in this state or province that leads to these kinds of conflicts?

Ms. LAWSON: I think it's both. I mean the Plateau State is really at like a fault line in Nigeria between a majority Muslim population and also a foreign population for some people in Nigeria and a majority Christian population.

I think, also, there has been several years of lack of good governance. I mean, the same kind of ethnic violence happened in 2001 after the elections. And so, it sounds as if, in that time, the governor of Jos couldn't have - or of the Plateau State couldn't have stepped in and actually created, as Constance said, programs that actually gave young people and people who were otherwise totally disenfranchised something to do with themselves.

I mean, in the same way that we saw kind of these unofficial gangs of people committing crimes against one another, we also had a very organized, peaceful uprising of young Muslims who demanded for a recount of elections and for the governor to resign. And so it's not just that the people are (unintelligible) in violence, they're using lots of things at their disposal.

What makes the news is the violence, and that's actually what's the hardest for us to deal with because so many people have been displaced, so many people have been killed in what seems to be seemingly an unnecessary kind of rise up. But I think that the people of Jos and of this part of Nigeria have put up with this for almost 20 years. They've put up with this kind of ethnic tension of, like, that their elections were not respected, their voices were not heard at the ballot box, and that creates a powder keg.

MARTIN: Is there a - Constance, is there a concern that the tension will spread throughout the country or beyond this region?

Ms. IKOKWU: No. Well, there were concerns, but it's been effectively contained now. And I also want to add that lack of education in the rural areas is a problem. I'm not talking about the ABC. I'm talking about education of the mind. You know, there has to be a program that will create awareness, you know, among people and educate them that it doesn't matter which religion you are because we have different religions all over the country.

So this lack of education, you know, among - in rural areas particularly makes them vulnerable, and politicians, you know, sometimes manipulate people and, you know, cause conflict when they don't achieve their (unintelligible).

MARTIN: Are there any such efforts being made to create some more sense of a civil society, of a shared stake in civil society?

Ms. IKOKWU: Yeah. I mean, Nigeria is a country with a lot of challenges, and we are 48 now. And in the past, we've had military rule. Now, we have - we went back to democracy in 1999. The problems are huge. The challenges are huge.

But day by day, I think that we're getting there. It will take a very, very long time. It will take a stable government, a credible government because now, the president is still battling his presidency in the court, so all these things takes time, you know, to develop.

MARTIN: Roxanne, final word from you. Is there any way outside players can be helpful here, governments like the United States, which have a relationship with the Nigerian government? Is there anything that other countries can do to be helpful?

Ms. LAWSON: I think that the things that Constance brought up, that the U.S. should be supporting development packages through our foreign policy and foreign aid that support people in rural areas being able to have choices with their lives.

I think also the role of multinational corporations, part of the issues that we see Nigeria because it is such a sweet, crude-oil-rich country. And multinational corporations based in the United States, like Chevron, and based in Europe, like Shell, exploit political tensions, corrupt politicians that they actually will help them in making their profits, in making their money, and I think there needs to be a change in those things.

MARTIN: What do you mean by that? I mean, they're there to...

Ms. LAWSON: Well, for example...

MARTIN: Make money...

Ms. LAWSON: Part of what we're seeing and part of what, you know, we'd look at it as a lack of governance in Nigeria is really a lack of political will from political - from politicians in Nigeria to actually serve the people of Nigeria. And so, they're serving their own pockets, their own political economic interest, which puts them at the bequest of multinational corporations.

There are right now three court cases going on in Nigeria where Chevron and Shell have actually taken up arms against Nigerian citizens who are trying to get their rights. And so, as Nigeria deals with ethnic tensions, at the under (unintelligible) of that is the resources. People have a lack of access to their own resources that they themselves as Nigerians own as their birthright, and that creates tension.

MARTIN: And we're going to have to leave it there for now. It's a very rich and complicated topic, as Constance pointed out to us. Roxanne Lawson is director of Africa policy for TransAfrica. Constance Ikokwu is the Washington bureau chief for This Day newspaper in Nigeria. And they were both kind enough to join us in our Washington D.C. studios. Thank you so much for speaking with us today.

Ms. LAWSON: Thank you for having me.

Ms. IKOKWU: Thank you.

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