Middle East Conflict Highlights Opposing Views On Peace

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MICHEL MARTIN, host:

I'm Michel Martin, and this is Tell Me More from NPR News. Coming up, remembering Helen Suzman, a strong and singular voice against South African apartheid.

But first, the situation in Gaza. On Saturday, Israeli ground forces moved into the territory, a dramatic escalation of some of the worst fighting the area has seen in recent years. Israel began aerial strikes into Gaza more than a week ago. That followed an ongoing series of rocket attacks by Hamas, the Palestinian group that controls Gaza, targeting Israeli territory. So far, more than 500 Palestinians and at least five Israelis have died as a result of the conflict.

Amidst the anger and confusion, there are still voices on both sides urging a peaceful resolution. Today we check in with two of those voices. Abu Sahmi is a peace activist who formerly lived in Gaza. He currently lives at Ramallah. Also joining us is Vivian Silver, the Israeli co-executive director of the Negev Institute for Strategies of Peace and Development. She works in Be'er Sheva but she lives in a kibbutz on the border of the Gaza Strip. Welcome to you both. Thank you so much for speaking with us.

Ms. VIVIAN SILVER (Co-executive Director, Negev Institute for Strategies of Peace and Development): Thank you.

Mr. ABU SAHMI: Thank you.

MARTIN: Vivian, I wanted to ask, have you been affected by the rocket attacks?

Ms. SILVER: Very much so. We've lived under the reality of rockets hitting our whole area for the last seven or eight years, and what has escalated obviously now is the present situation in which Israel has gone in for an air attack and the ground forces have entered, and so now we're in a full-fledged war.

MARTIN: And I want to hear more about this, but I want to hear, Abu Sahmi, tell me about what your circumstances are right now. As I understand it, you're on the way to a hospital to visit a friend who's from Gaza. Tell me more about that.

Mr. SAHMI: Just - we have some children coming in from Gaza. Before what happened in Gaza and the year alone without his family, when I hearing there's somebody from Gaza in the hospital, I come in to be with him.

MARTIN: I wanted to ask each of you how you maintain your argument for peace at a time like this. Vivian, if you would start. I mean, for example, you must have your own feelings of anger to manage.

Ms. SILVER: Well, I have feelings of terrible frustration on both sides. I can talk as an Israeli, my frustration and disappointment in the lack of movement on the part of Israeli governments over the last many, many years for not pursuing peace agreements in a manner which I think has to be done. And of course, the terrible frustration on the Palestinian side that is also not pursuing peace agreements.

And my frustration lies in the fact that violence is just not going to breed anything else other than violence, no matter how justified each side feels about retaliating against the other's violence. It's not going to bring us anywhere other than violent solutions. If we want to live in peace, then we're going to have to put down the rockets and put away the planes and start talking.

MARTIN: Abu Sahmi, what about you? It's the same question to you.

Ms. SAHMI: Yeah. I'm agreeing with what my friend, Vivian, was just, you know, there's many Palestinian in Israel is what position really, really many years involved good relation between these groups. And exactly what's happened in Gaza in the last 10 days, it's put our optimist view to be very, very difficult. And also our work, it's going to be very, very difficult. We don't have explain for the people who we try to sell the (unintelligible) for him, and the people start to calling us and say, who is this you are talking about? So I hope this war will finish up soon as in this(ph) end on weekend, continue to do what we do because really, both the Palestinian and the Israeli people need the peace we work for.

MARTIN: What do you say to people who say that to you? It must be difficult at a time like this when you - you are visible and active and when you see people dying, as they are, how do you respond to people who would say, Abu Sahmi, that you're just naive? What do you say to them?

Mr. SAHMI: Actually, it's what we're doing, that peace meeting, the peace activity what we're doing, just we doing because we need to stop it, because we don't need what happened in Gaza to happen more. There is enough people suffering. Palestinian people and the Israeli people suffering from this war, suffering from this conflict. So the war we doing has got to stop because there is enough people dying from the Palestinian side and the Israeli side from this conflict. This is the answer we give to people.

MARTIN: And Vivian Silver, the same question to you. At a time like this, one would think that people would question your commitment to peace and say, you are naive, that you are not patriotic, that you don't understand the facts. What do you say to that?

Ms. SILVER: That's right. I think the people feel that - yes, I'm naive and that there isn't any other answer. And I say, we'll never know whether there's another way because we're locked into the box of violence and retaliation and violence and retaliation, and that's all we know. Sometimes it feels like we have been programmed not to check out any other possibilities, and until we do, we're on a one-way highway going nowhere. ..TEXT: I believe and I think that we all know what the end solution is in the compromises each side is going to have to make. It's just not clear to me why we're willing to pay such a terribly high price on both sides.

MARTIN: If you're just joining us, this is Tell Me More from NPR News. We're speaking about the situation in Gaza with Abu Sahmi and Vivian Silver. They are both peace activists who've worked extensively in the region.

Ms. Silver, can I just ask the question I asked earlier, is how do you manage your own feelings at a time like this?

Ms. SILVER: Oh, a lot of tears. A lot of tears. It's very lonely sometimes. I actually draw my strength in the work that we do within Israel. I'm a peace activist also within Israel. We're an organization that is made up of both Arabs and Jews within Israel to correct the wrongs within the country as well. And we understand that there is no other way but to talk it out, to talk it out and makes the compromises pay the prices that we have to pay. Give up, perhaps, the ideal dream in order to live side by side here, in which each side is given the respect and full and equal rights that each of us deserves.

MARTIN: Abu Sahmi, can I ask you that question? How do you manage your own feelings? You have to have feelings at a time like this.

Mr. SAHMI: Yes. I think it's really, it's very difficult to talk about the peace in this dark time. But I think what we share for all the world and also for the Palestinian and the Israeli people, every mother in all the world wants their son come back from station. Never mind American mother, Egyptian mother, Israeli mother, the Palestinian mother, so we start to be optimistic. We start looking for tomorrow to be much, much better from this day, and we try to do all the best to try to really - to finish this conflict by dialogue.

MARTIN: Is there anything - I wanted to ask each of you also - is there anything that outside actors could be doing right now that would be helpful?

Ms. SILVER: Well, I think that as long as it is only Israel that is being attacked by the outside world in terms of the UN or other sources, then Israel is going to feel justified in doing whatever it is doing to maintain its survival. And I think that if the European Union and the UN and the United States government would look at this conflict in a more balanced way, in which there are victims on both sides and that the answer here is not a win-lose situation but a win-win situation, both peoples have to survive as a nation and that both peoples have to feel that there is that support for that basic notion of two peoples, two states, then Israel may be willing to be more open in the compromises it's willing to make. I'm hopeful that Obama will not bear-hug Israel to death as I feel the previous administration has done and that we're looking for a better, more balanced time and therefore support for both of our people.

MARTIN: Abu Sahmi, I was asking Vivian if there are things that outsiders could do at a time like this to be helpful. Are there outside - are there things that outside actors like the United States, the United Nations could do to help?

Mr. SAHMI: Yeah. I think the United States must work much, much more. Not just the United States and all the world, the Arabian Union and all the free people in all the world to push the Palestinian and the Israeli people to try to finish this conflict with their (unintelligible).

MARTIN: Do you still have hope for peace, Abu Sahmi?

Mr. SAHMI: (unintelligible) but I think we must still have this hope for our children, for our future.

MARTIN: Vivian, what about you? Do you still have hope for peace?

Ms. SILVER: If I didn't, then I couldn't stay here. I - yes, I think that we have no other choice, and I think we have to do everything in our power to bring that change about here, for each of us to influence our own governments, our own ruling parties to make the moves that it has to make.

MARTIN: Abu Sahmi, do you have any final thoughts? And if you could just tell us, what are you going to do in the days ahead?

Mr. SAHMI: There is many things to do. There is many people in Gaza without houses, without food, without water, without electric. There is so many things we need to do.

MARTIN: Well, I think that's - I think that's all we have time for. We're going to let you get back to your work. We appreciate your time. Abu Sahmi is a peace activist who formerly lived in Gaza. He's living in Ramallah now. We also spoke with Vivian Silver. She's the Israeli co-executive director of the Negev Institute for Strategies of Peace and Development. And I thank you both so much for taking the time to speak to us.

Ms. SILVER: Thank you, Michel.

Mr. SAHMI: Thank you. Bye-bye.

MARTIN: NPR is reporting extensively on the situation in Gaza, reaction throughout the Middle East and international efforts to find a path to peace. Please stay tuned to NPR throughout the day for the latest news on the conflict. You can also find updates on the network's Web site. That's npr.org.

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