STEVE INSKEEP, host:
Let's follow up now on part of this story that became a little more clear this week. A former FBI agent says private contractors were a driving force behind harsh interrogations. There have already been lawsuits against military contractors involved in detainee abuse, but there's not been as much action against contractors who worked for the CIA.
NPR's Ari Shapiro explores why.
ARI SHAPIRO: When the Leon Panetta became the head of the CIA a few months ago, he banned contractors from interrogating detainees. Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, talked about the decision at a round table with reporters.
Mr. DENNIS BLAIR (Director of National Intelligence): Seems to me that those who do these sorts of interrogations of the most important detainees that we have should be government employees, they shouldn't be contractors. They should be highly trained, very supervised.
SHAPIRO: The full significance of that decision was not immediately clear. Then, this week, a Senate subcommittee heard testimony that CIA contractors were the people on the ground who pushed hardest for abusive interrogations. Former FBI interrogator Ali Soufan helped question Abu Zubaydah, the first high-value detainee in American custody.
Mr. ALI SOUFAN (Former FBI Interrogator): The interrogation team was a combination between FBI and CIA, and all of us had the same opinion that contradicted with the contractor.
SHAPIRO: He went on.
Mr. SOUFAN: The contractors had to keep requesting authorization to use harsher and harsher methods.
SHAPIRO: According to Soufan's written testimony, even before the Justice Department provided legal permission in writing, contractors used nudity, sleep deprivation, loud noise, and temperature manipulation against Zubaydah.
Soufan said the contractors did not have any experience in interrogations. They reportedly came from a school where the Army trained American personnel to resist torture. Trainers from the school created a company called Mitchell Jessen. No one from the company has spoken publicly in the last few years and they could not be reached for this story.
Mr. RICHARD FRIEDMAN (President, National Strategy Forum): The issue of oversight is the principle concern.
SHAPIRO: Richard Friedman is president of the National Strategy Forum and an expert on contractors and wartime.
Mr. FRIEDMAN: When we get to oversight, who are the overseers? And secondly, what criteria do the overseers adhere to?
SHAPIRO: We don't know the answer to those questions. ACLU attorney Ben Wisner has brought lawsuits on behalf of torture victims, but none against the CIA contractors who conducted harsh interrogations.
Mr. BEN WISNER (ACLU Attorney): There simply have not been a lot of lawsuits related to the CIA's torture program against either the CIA or its contractors because courts have almost universally been shutting these lawsuits down on the basis of overbroad secrecy claims made by the CIA.
SHAPIRO: This is hugely frustrating for lawyers who represent former CIA detainees.
Mr. BRENT MICKUM (Attorney): My name is Brent Mickum. I represent Abu Zabaydah.
SHAPIRO: What has your client told you about who interrogated him?
Mr. MICKUM: I'm not allowed to divulge that information.
SHAPIRO: Has he told you about the role of contractors?
Mr. MICKUM: Well, I can't tell you that.
SHAPIRO: Has he told you whether he was put in stress positions, deprived of sleep, held in extremely cold or hot places?
Mr. MICKUM: Everything my client says is presumptively top secret and I'm prevented from revealing it.
SHAPIRO: Has he said when the abusive interrogations began?
Mr. MICKUM: I can't tell you that either.
SHAPIRO: You can see why bringing a lawsuit might be difficult.
And the law is murky in this area. In 2006, Congress passed a billed that immunizes contractors from lawsuits. Some lawyers believe it's unconstitutional, but no court has weighed in on the law. The Justice Department torture memos are silent about contractors.
At this week's hearing, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse asked Georgetown law professor David Luban about it.
Professor DAVID LUBAN (Georgetown University): Sir, I don't recall any specific mention of private contractors.
Senator SHELDON WHITEHOUSE (Democrat, Rhode Island): I don't recall it either, and it would seem that that might raise legal issues. It's interesting that that would be a fact in the lengthy, lengthy OLC opinions that never appears to have surfaced.
Prof. LUBAN: Well I - I agree, Senator.
SHAPIRO: President Obama has said CIA agents who followed the Justice Department's legal advice won't be prosecuted, but he has said nothing about contractors. The ACLU says keep an eye out as more information is declassified, attorneys expect to bring more lawsuits including, perhaps, against CIA contractors.
Ari Shapiro, NPR News, Washington.