REBECCA ROBERTS, host:
This is TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Rebecca Roberts in Washington, in today for Neal Conan.
Abigail Pogrebin calls herself many things - writer, mother, wife, New Yorker. But what shapes her sense of self, more than anything else, is her identity as an identical twin. The relationship with her sister, Robin, is intimate and intense, she says. She's got a built-in best friend, a person who shares her most private feelings and secrets, who knows her in ways that no one else can. It's exhilarating, she says, but it also presents a big challenge. How do you figure out your own identity when you're at the identical half of someone else? When you're one and the same?
That's the title of Abigail Pogrebin's new book. She joins us in just a moment. Later, Jazz Trumpeter Terence Blanchard returns to the program. His new CD is called, "Choices." But first, life as a twin. And we want to hear from twins today, identical and fraternal and from parents of twins and siblings of twins. What was your experience like? Tell us your stories. Our number here in Washington is 800-989-8255. Email is email@example.com. And you can join the conversation at our Web site. Go to npr.org and click on TALK OF THE NATION. Abigail Pogrebin is with us from our bureau in New York. Welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.
Ms. ABIGAIL POGREBIN (Journalist; Author, "One and the Same"): Thank you.
ROBERTS: You write that you're still struggling with this sort of fundamental oxymoron that what makes you unique and standout and special, is actually that you're not unique - that there's someone exactly like you.
Ms. POGREBIN: That's so well put and I think it's the conundrum people don't realize when they look at twins. There's an assumption that it's this idyllic relationship. And in many ways it is. I mean, you come into the world with someone and you're never alone, you're never, kind of, floating out there by yourself, making your way. You always have an ally. You always have a backup. You always have a support system. But you're also always compared to someone else, always measured against someone else. And if you're identical as Robin and I are, you're constantly confused with someone else. And over a lifetime, I'm 44, I hate to admit, that can wear you down a little bit in terms of building your own sense of self.
ROBERTS: And, you know, when you think about - to the degree, if you're ever prone to introspection of this sort at all - if you think, well, no one else knows what it's like to be me, right? I mean, they might know my values or know me very well or know what I look like? But they don't know what I think about when I'm falling asleep or they don't know, you know, what it feels like to have the sun on my face. In addition to someone looking exactly like you, do you think identical twins know what it feels like to be each other?
Ms. POGREBIN: I certainly think that we are as in-tune as two people could be. If I'm in a room with Robin, if I'm at a party with her, from across the room I know if she is enjoying it, I know if she is tense, I know if she wants to leave. There's that kind of connection and I also know when something is bothering her. And I also know when I've triggered something or set her off at someway. You're almost hyper attune to someone else. And that's both wonderful and also sometimes difficult because, you know, I talk in a book about how twins feel responsible for each other in a way that I'm not sure that regular siblings do.
You don't feel like you can be happy if your twin is not happy. And if she's down, it's hard to kind of enjoy your own life until she's enjoying hers. There's kind of that constant vicarious reaction to the world and experience of it. And that can be both a boost and a burden. You're living, in a way, for two sometimes.
ROBERTS: What was your sister's reaction to you writing this book?
Ms. POGREBIN: That is sort of the trillion-dollar question.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. POGREBIN: It's not an easy answer, because on one level she has been, I would say, in the larger level, she has been remarkably supportive. But its tricky territory when you decide to write about something very personal to you and it implicates another person, so specifically, so deeply. It's an exposing book. It's a very personal book. It's more personal, frankly, than I intended it to be when I started. I've been a reporter for a long time and I always approached subjects by - as I'm sure you do - you kind of inundate yourself in the material. And I was reading every - all the research on twins, all the experts.
I started interviewing twins and I kind of felt overwhelmed by the material. I said, you know, what do I have to bring to this? And I had a conversation with Robin, when I was at my panic moment, and she was the one who said, Abi, you have to start with yourself. The reason why you're doing this book is because you know that there's a richness and a complexity to this area that hasn't been covered. So, you got to go there, start with yourself.
And in a way, I think that was her tacit way of giving me her blessing, to not just to investigate other twins but to really see them all through the prism of my own life. And to ask the hard questions about why, despite our intense closeness and it remains very intense, it's also been difficult at times. And so, short answer is that it's a little bit hard for her. She's a writer for the New York Times. It's a little bit of hard for her to be exposed, when it wasn't her choice to write the book. But that said she has edited every word, she's read it twice and she - I think her greatest act of love is that, she let me publish it, frankly.
ROBERTS: Well, there's also a recurring message from you to her in this book that you miss the closeness she shared as girls. And that you miss her now, even though you remain close. There's probably an easier way for you to send her that message…
(Soundbite of laughter)
ROBERTS: …than publishing of a big book. But was that one of the things you wanted to do?
Ms. POGREBIN: Yes. You know, I think that's exactly sort of how I ended up in it. It is a clumsy way of doing something. I maybe should have found the courage to do otherwise, but I really hadn't. I think that the two years of writing this book were a sort of love letter to her and a way of saying, I need more of us. I missed the way that we used to be as kids. The sort of, the lack of complication that when we were together as kids there were just - there was no sub-text, there was no issue of identity.
We were just together. We did so many of the things the same way, the same time. You know, we weren't interchangeable, we were definitely different people, but I would say that being together was effortless. And in the last few years, I would say it hasn't been. And I don't want to speak for her, I mean, she speaks for herself in the book. I actually interview her for the book. But she really feels like at a certain point, she was aware of the fact that her own identity was blurred by the fact that we were doubles, in a sense, all our lives.
And that she needed to say, I need my own turf, I need to be to have my own sense that my friends, or the friends that we have in common, are uniquely mine. And that I have my own world that's separate from you. It's something that can happen to twins anytime in their lives, where usually you think about separation from a mother, from a parent happening in adolescence. That's sort of the time we're all used to it - you make your break.
With twins, as I have learned through my research and talking to so many, it can happen very late. It can happen early. But it can happen in your 40s, it can happen in your 50s, where there has to be a time where you say, I'm letting go little bit. And I think I was very resistant to Robin letting go. And this book taught me that it's time.
ROBERTS: You know, I - and I must say I read your book. I'm both - I'm the mother and daughter of fraternal twins…
Ms. POGREBIN: Ah.
ROBERTS: And a lot of what you said is true for fraternal twins too. The sharing rooms, the closet, the sharing friends, they are being compared in school, the never having your parents to yourself.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. POGREBIN: Right.
ROBERTS: What do you think is different about identicals?
Ms. POGREBIN: You know, I think that the thing about looking like someone else is there's - you know, with fraternal twins, too, you have this simultaneity of existence. You really are growing up alongside someone in many ways, and in that sense, the temptation for comparison is almost - it's almost too much to bear for a lot of people. But when you look like someone else, you're a constant kind of side show. And it doesn't mean that everyone's obsessed with you, but there's always the curiosity. It's understandable.
And you started with all these questions that are so - kind of for us, they're so tired, but believe me, I'm asked them to this day over and over again. Or Rob and I will be at a party, and someone puts us together, they kind of squeeze us together and say, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me look at you guys side by side.
Robin hates that. As she says in the book, she just hates the gimmick. It's not what she loves about being a twin. And I also tell this anecdote about how we have this mutual friend who ran into Robin on the street, talked to her, for 20 minutes they had a conversation and then emailed her a few minutes later and said oh my God, the whole time I was talking to you, I thought you were Abby.
You know, that might be a funny story, kind of like what's the big deal? It wears on you, because suddenly that reminds you that maybe you're not singular in the world; that the distinctiveness, there's sort of an anxiety of distinction. Am I really known, not just noticed?
There's someone in the book, an expert named Joan Friedman(ph), who talks about the difference between being noticed and being known. As identical twins, you're really noticed a lot of the time, and that doesn't necessarily happen with fraternals.
ROBERTS: Although I have to tell you, I think sometimes people just aren't paying attention, you know?
Ms. POGREBIN: Yes.
ROBERTS: My dad looks a lot like his brother, but they are fraternal, and people come up to him all the time and say: I took your class when I was in college.
Ms. POGREBIN: Oh, how funny.
ROBERTS: And he'll say: No, you didn't, but I know who you mean.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. POGREBIN: Exactly, and you know, I think twins basically get a sense of humor about it. I mean, I live in New York City. You would think I live in a small town. I am mistaken for Robin probably three or four times a week, literally, and it's the question of how do you handle it?
You have to - you have to be ready for that, because even if you're in a rush just to go somewhere, you're going to offend someone if they think that you're Robin, and you don't respond in some warm, welcoming way.
I've been kissed by strangers, literally.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. POGREBIN: And there's no time to react and say: you don't mean to kiss me. You don't actually know me. Sometimes if I am in a hurry, I'll just kiss them and say it's great to see you and move on.
ROBERTS: Let's hear from Carol(ph) in Elkhart, Indiana. Carol, welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.
CAROL (Caller): Hi. I think you have written my story.
CAROL: I can't wait to read the book. My twin and I, we've - we just turned 54, and as far as identity - I'm going to pull over here. I'm driving.
ROBERTS: Thank you.
CAROL: I have found that I love being a twin, and I didn't find out until we were in our 20s that she really - she was okay with being a twin - she hated dressing alike. But what happened with our identity - I had friends, and I found out as adults that she thought my friends were my friends, that she didn't feel that they were our friends, even though the friends thought they were friends with both of us.
And there was - she had a friend who had twins and wanted to know what it was like to be a twin and had us both fill out a questionnaire. And one of the questions that really sticks in my mind and will forever is: when did you first feel separated as a twin?
For my sister, it was in the first grade. We had the same kindergarten teacher. Back in the '60s, they said separate them. So she had a different teacher than I did.
For me, the separation came when we were 23, and she, with a week's notice, moved 130 miles away. I was devastated. Yet it was the best thing in the world for her. She found her own friends, she found her own niche, and she's doing fantastic.
ROBERTS: Carole, thank you so much for your call. We are talking with Abigail Pogrebin about her life and struggle as an identical twin, and we want to hear from you, as well. Call us at 800-989-8255. Or send us email, firstname.lastname@example.org. I'm Rebecca Roberts. It's TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.
(Soundbite of music)
ROBERTS: It's TALK OF THE NATION. I'm Rebecca Roberts in Washington. My guest is Abigail Pogrebin. Her book is called "One and the Same: My Life as an Identical Twin and What I've Learned About Everyone's Struggle to be Singular."
Abigail Pogrebin, the last caller was talking about this question of separating from your kin, and it turned out that she and her twin felt that it happened at very different times. Does that surprise you?
Ms. POGREBIN: It doesn't. You know, many of the experts that I interviewed for this book said how twins can have a different investment in the intimacy as their life kind of progresses. You can have a twin who's still really holding on and kind of wanting to celebrate the togetherness, and the idea that you're intertwined, and the sense of being kind of in touch all of the time, and the other twin might say you know what? I need a little distance now.
You know, that may sound a little Oprah, you know, I need space, but that's a little more complicated when you've got two people who have not just been in a sort of simple way so intimate for so many years. But the expectation is that twins have this kind of uncomplicated love affair.
It's sort of the ideal relationship for non-twins. You know, you assume - everyone wants to find their other half, their perfect match, to sort of feel understood by someone without saying a word, and that is actually true.
I mean, I don't want to in any way misrepresent how intense and fulfilling this kind of intimacy is, but what it also does with that expectation, is that if you fall short at all, you kind of sweat it. You worry that - and it happened with Robin and me.
I mean, I'll speak personally that I still want us to have that kind of uncomplicated togetherness, and it just doesn't work for Robin anymore.
ROBERTS: We have an email from John(ph) in Gainesville, Florida, who says: I'm an identical twin. When my brother Jeremy and I were growing up, we tended to avoid competition. When he took up an interest such as art, I would take up a very different interest, such as stamp collecting. Is this avoidance of competition common or typical?
Ms. POGREBIN: Absolutely. Many twins talk about the fact that if one of them chose something, then the other one would try to choose something else. I mean, even the Barbers, who I interviewed, Tiki and Ronde Barber, both star football players. You know, you might at first look at them and say they do the same thing. They don't.
Now you're going to see that I'm sports-challenged. I think one's a halfback, one's a fullback, or I know I'm getting that wrong.
ROBERTS: Yeah, one's a running back, one's a corner back.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. POGREBIN: Okay, thank you. But the idea, in their minds, that's very, very clear - they don't do the same thing. And so when they each excelled at what they do, that was very intentional. When they wrestled, they made sure that they didn't wrestle in the same weight. Almost every twin I interviewed, even if it's a tweak, they definitely try to stay out of each other's way because they know as soon as you're head to head, you're in trouble.
ROBERTS: Although it's interesting because then you sort of end up getting defined by your differences, right? I mean, it's like you can't excel at what your twin does.
Ms. POGREBIN: That's a very good point. And the other thing you run into, and this is in the book, our genetics, and especially when you're identical, don't forget you're a genetic blueprint of each other. Your DNA is the same. Your DNA actually isn't just - doesn't inform you just biologically in terms of your traits, it informs your choices. It informs your tastes.
Robin and I like the same foods. We like the same things. We chose the same career. We chose kind of similar men to marry. It's not exactly the same, but it often is very similar because we're informed by the same kind of genetic information. And so it's sort of artificial to say, well, we have to choose different things because our bodies are telling us, kind of, to go in the same direction.
ROBERTS: I remember being with my twin cousins - are you getting a sense of my family genetics here?
(Soundbite of laughter)
Ms. POGREBIN: It's pretty amazing.
ROBERTS: Another set of fraternal twins. And one was going out for a run, and she said to her sister: Goodbye, intellectual twin. And her sister, who was reading a book, said: Goodbye, athletic twin. And they had become so identified by their differences that there was no room for the athletic one to be a reader or the reading twin to be a jock.
Ms. POGREBIN: You know, in fact, I interview the Paul twins, Alexandra and Caroline. Alexandra actually was a regular on "Baywatch," and her twin, Caroline, came out as a lesbian and was a firefighter. So they ended up very different directions. But when they were growing up, they were both exactly that. It was one was athletic, one was the intellectual, and they felt like they had no choice but to kind of embrace those labels.
Later in life, they said that was ridiculous. It was something in a way that was foisted upon them, and then they felt like it had to be self-fulfilling.
Many of the people in my book who have studied twins and who counsel twins, therapists, talk about the danger of labels. And so many parents I talk to, and I even see in my own family, they that - this is the easy twin; this is the cranky twin. This twin is the social one; this is the reticent twin. I think that those labels really, really are problematic because they end up sticking, in a way.
ROBERTS: Let's hear from Dylan(ph) in Loveland, Colorado. Dylan, welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.
DILLON (Caller): Yes, hi, how are you?
DYLAN: I just wanted to call because I am the spouse of an identical twin, and I often say that I did not marry one man, I married one and a half - because I'm not necessarily as tight with my brother-in-law, but he's always around. and there's an intimate relationship that occurS between them that I'm certainly not a part of. and it's very interesting, and I wouldn't say it's difficult, but it certainly isn't for everyone, I don't think.
ROBERTS: You know, I'm glad you asked that question because I really think that spouses of twins really could be a book in of itself. It is such interesting territory. It is - I know you're saying it's not hard, but I know from personal experience it can certainly be tricky - and I cover it a lot in the book. Because just as you're saying, you're kind of getting two for one, and you have to sign on for that.
And many of the people I spoke to said you either get it, or you don't, and a couple twins said if you even think about getting the way of that relationship, watch out.
I happened to - like our host here, I married a man who has identical twin sisters, and that has made things so much easier, because Robin and I have our stuff, and he just gets it. He's used to it. He has sort of the twin-empathy gene, but not every husband or wife does.
ROBERTS: Well, you also talk a lot in the book about twins who find it hard to have a romantic relationship, who haven't found the intimacy they have in their twinship in romance.
Ms. POGREBIN: Exactly. It sort of becomes the paradigm of closeness, and it sets a very high bar. There were really many twins I interviewed who said they thought they'd never get married because there was no one else they'd rather be with. There was no one who they enjoyed as much. And you know, that's in a way a good problem to have.
And some people listening said, you know, I'm sobbing for you, but it does get complicated when, kind of like intimacy can get in the way of other intimacy. And that's what happened with some twins is that in some ways, they're very good at intimacy because they've had it all their lives.
In some ways, they've never developed the other muscle to have romantic relationships or even friendships that are intense or are fulfilling because they were so used to just having it when they woke up every morning or even when they got out of the womb. You know, it's something we never had to learn or do without.
ROBERTS: Did you hear from friends that you interviewed for the book that, they knew they could never compete with your relationship with each other?
Ms. POGREBIN: I did. I mean, there are quite a few friends that we had that said being with Robin and I was kind of a nightmare. Robin and I were also kind of - we didn't just look indistinguishable, but we were performers - and as I say in the book, you know, being identical twins is already a performance. You don't have to even open your mouth. You're already a little bit of a show, especially growing up in the '60s and '70s where there weren't that many - there weren't so many twins as there are now.
We kind of were a phenomenon. And then to perform, it's kind of redundant, and I'm sure we drove everyone out of their minds. But one of the things that we did often on our play dates - they weren't called that then - was that we would have a friend over, and I think it was untenable to be with the two of us because you, kind of, were - it was like you were the odd person out of the club.
ROBERTS: And your younger brother felt that way, too.
Ms. POGREBIN: He did, and he's very honest in the book about it, and I think again, that's a whole other book is siblings of twins. There is no way really to compete with that relationship, and so either you stake your own territory, or you kind of accept it.
My brother did remarkably well, considering that I think we were a formidable pair. And he's obviously very supportive, but he even admitted to me in the book, now - which I had never known - that when he calls one of us, he calls the other; that when he visits one, he visits the other; that he in a way is always tallying in his own mind, almost reflexively, to make sure he's kept things equal.
ROBERTS: And do you think that's because one or the other of you would be insulted if you felt that he was getting closer to the other one?
Ms. POGREBIN: You know, I think if he - if you asked either Robin or I who's closer to my brother, we each might answer that and say I am. He's done a very good job in that regard.
You do have a sense - even though Robin are not competitive in the sense that everyone predicts that twins are - there is a sense that you are glancing to your right or to your left all through your life. You can't help it. And more as a standard to match. You know, the Barbers, the football twins, talk about this, and many others do. If Robin can do, you know, a tripod head stand in yoga, I feel like I should do it, too. And when I hear that she didn't - that she went through natural childbirth and that she didn't get a Caesarian, I was going through very long childbirth. Without going into it, I said to those doctors, if my twin did it, I'm doing it.
(Soundbite of laughter)
FEMALE: And I had almost 10-pound baby, so that probably wasn't a good idea. But the fact - that's how far I took it. If Robin can do this, sure I can do it too.
ROBERTS: Let's hear from Glenn(ph) in Cato, New York. Glenn, welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.
GLENN (Caller): Hi.
GLENN: I just want to bring up the subject of being able to mend fences really well. It's a gift that identical twins are given or they earn it. And most people, you know, they don't go through the misunderstandings that identical twins do - the situations in life where they're mistaken for their double. And then there's the straightening out involved there, you know?
And I found that it was interesting, growing up, you know, going down the hallway and both having girls come up to me and mistaking me for my brother who, you know, some girls who I wouldn't mind getting to know, you know? And on the other hand, you know, some guy coming up to you and slugging you in the lip because your brother laughed at him at lunch time, you know?
So there's this gift of, like you said, always looking around to your left or to your right. What might I have to straighten out?
ROBERTS: And Glenn, did you feel like people just didn't - if they didn't know the differences between you and your brother, they didn't know you very well?
GLENN: Oh, they didn't. They did not at all. We're always referred to as twins, you know? And if anyone didn't know us, you know, by our name, they'd just refer to us as the twins and look at our parents and say, you know, I can't tell them apart. And our parents would almost wink at that, you know? Because of pride, I suggest. I mean, I suggest. And you know, you miss out on a lot until finally you split and you become your own person.
And then you get to see how the other side of the fence is. And it's pretty good, you know, to have your own life. But at the same time, you know, it's no fun having your twin meet your teacher or professor at store, and the professor says hi to him, and he says, yeah, well, get away from me, you weirdo.
(Soundbite of laughter)
GLENN: You know, these are things you've got to straighten out in life. And I suppose some handle it differently, but I was the person that always mended my fences, and still do, you know?
ROBERTS: Glenn, thank you so much for your call. That was - it sounds like it was a similar dynamic to what you have felt, Abigail, when you have been mistaken for your sister.
Ms. POGREBIN: Yes. And you know, he reminds me of that line, I'm not my brother's keeper. You absolutely are when you're an identical twin or your sister's keeper. Whether you like or not, someone else is representing you in the world. When I don't give someone a warm hello in the street, Robin hears about it, and then we have to talk about it. And it's not, you know, we laugh most of the time. You know, when I say, I think I ran into someone, I'm not sure who it was. She'll say, were you nice to them?
It's what he was getting at, you know? You really are represented by someone else and you don't kind of realize what that means. You can't just move through the world as yourself. Someone else is also representing you.
ROBERTS: You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.
Let's hear from Nicole(ph) in Boise, Idaho. Nicole, welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.
NICOLE (Caller): Hi, thank you. I'm a parent of fraternal twins, but also a granddaughter of an identical mirror twin. So, I think having some of that in my background prepared us to have twins. And you had talked about the differences and going to the extreme, we've always made the point to make sure that we don't refer to them as the twins. And they are day and night. Their looks are day and night.
Most people don't even realize they're siblings, now that they are a little order. They are in elementary school. But I laughed when she was talking about these ridiculous questions, because when they were babies, we got that - we got all kind of ridiculousness. But I think that the point that you've made about the closeness, I think with fraternal, it's still there. And there's no other siblings, either, so they really do rely on each other. But they do have such different interest and are such different people.
But again, we have not tried to label them, one is artistic - one is sports minded - because its' not that way for either of them. I just thought it was interesting, hearing the fraternal version to the identical. But with my grandfather being a mirror twin, I think that you'll find this amusing, they did swap classes and they did it, right, to play jokes on people. And it was a different era as well. And the twinship was way more abnormal than now. So, enjoying the conversation.
ROBERTS: Thank you, Nicole. Abigail, your mother mentions in the book, that actually she ultimately wishes she had spent more time with you and your sister separately. And that's the advice you give parents or twins now?
NICOLE: Yes. In fact, she doesn't say I wish I would have spent more time. She says: I wish I would have spent some time.
ROBERTS: Any time.
NICOLE: Any time.
(Soundbite of laughter)
NICOLE: It was really one of the remarkable - you know, it may sound so fundamental to parents now, but it's amazing how many parents of twins miss it. And my parents certainly did. They never spent time with Robin or I, or me, by ourselves. And again, I'm not going to beat my heart and say I suffered, but it took its toll. And I think what it does is, if you don't have that connection to your parents separately, again it doesn't shore up a sense that you are a separate person in the world.
And, you know, it all came to the fore, believe it or not, when I was 18, my parents invited me to join them for a weekend at a bed and breakfast somewhere, because someone they were going with cancelled. And I was the only one who was free and I panicked. I said, I didn't know how to be with them alone.
And that for them was such a wakeup call that they had never - it had never occurred to them. And I should point out that many experts talk about how twins don't want to be separated. It's not like Robin and I were clamoring to do things without each other. You know, often, the twins are the driving engine to be together. They prefer to do things together. And many of the experts I talked to said you almost have to do it against their will. They may bulk at the idea that you're going to take one somewhere and not the other. But over the course of time, that's crucial, really crucial.
ROBERTS: I think we have time for one more quick call. This is Jennifer(ph) in Winona, Minnesota. Jennifer, welcome to TALK OF THE NATION.
JENNIFER (Caller): Hi. I just wanted to say I'm an identical twin. And I never struggled with an identity until we met another set of twins.
MS. POGREBIN: And what changed for you?
JENNIFER: Well, I realized that when - as we got to know this set of twins - we were on a basketball team with them. You know, I wouldn't remember who said what to me. I would - I couldn't remember who did what and I - it's like, I don't really know them. I don't know one from the other. And then I realized that people had that same experience, probably when they first met us.
ROBERTS: Jennifer, thanks for your call. It gives you a little more sympathy for what other people's reactions are you also can't tell identical twins apart.
MS. POGREBIN: Absolutely. It's a familiar experience. And that's the perfect kind of litmus test, I guess.
ROBERTS: Abigail Pogrebin. She's the author of the book "One and the Same: My Life As an Identical Twin and What I've Learned About Everyone's Struggle to Be Singular." She joined us from our bureau in New York.
Thank you so much.
MS. POGREBIN: Thank you.
ROBERTS: If you want to ready an excerpt from the book, all about her trip to Twinsburg, Oho for twins' days, head to our Web site at npr.org and click on TALK OF THE NATION.
Coming up, jazz trumpeter Terence Blanchard is back with us. His new CD continues his exploration of his hometown, New Orleans.
I'm Rebecca Roberts. It's TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.