MICHELE NORRIS, host:
This week, the White House has been lobbying Congress to raise the federal debt ceiling. Doing so would give the government the legal authority to borrow more money - hundreds of billions of dollars more - that it needs to pay its bills. Refusing to raise the debt ceiling would be an almost unprecedented move. But some conservatives argue that it's the only way to get federal spending under control.
NPR's Jim Zarroli reports.
JIM ZARROLI: The Treasury Department says that if the debt ceiling isn't raised by August 2nd, the government will run out of money to operate.
No one can say for sure what would happen at that point. Suddenly, the government would have to pick and choose what to pay. For instance, it could delay interest payments on money it's borrowed in the past, a default.
Mr. BILL GROSS (Managing Director , PIMCO): I think it would be catastrophic.
ZARROLI: Bill Gross, managing director of the bond investing firm PIMCO, says U.S. government debt plays a central role in world finance and trade, and doing anything to undermine that is unthinkable.
Mr. GROSS: It could have systemic importance, which is the same thing as saying we could have a, not a repeat, but certainly a mini episode similar to Lehman Brothers in 2008.
ZARROLI: Like a lot of people, Gross believes the debt ceiling dispute will get resolved and he doesn't think the government would ever let a default happen. Still, it's no longer as unthinkable as it once was.
Billionaire investor Stanley Druckenmiller recently made headlines when he argued that a default might be worth the pain it would cause because it would force the government to tackle its debt problems.
Economist James Ramsey of New York University says there's something to that argument.
Professor JAMES RAMSEY (Economy, New York University): As Johnson said about hanging, it concentrates the mind wonderfully. I would say that if we were in a position of not being able to pay our debts in the short term, it would concentrate the politicians' minds dramatically.
ZARROLI: Ramsey says from the point of view of bond investors, the debt ceiling is pretty much irrelevant anyway.
Mr. RAMSEY: The real issue is how people refer as to our seriousness of purpose in terms of meeting our obligations. That's the issue, not whether or not you've raised the ceiling.
ZARROLI: Still, the possibility of a default is a very scary prospect to most people in the markets. Some Republican senators recently argued in a letter to the White House that just talking about a default amounts to scare tactics on the administration's part. If the debt ceiling isn't raised, they say, Washington would have other options, like not paying federal employees.
Assistant Treasury Secretary Mary Miller.
Assistant Secretary MARY MILLER (Department of Treasury): We would have to stop making payments to a number of constituencies - obviously, people who work for the government, people in the military, retirees, vendors. This would have quite an impact on the economy, I think, in terms of rippling through.
ZARROLI: The trouble, Miller says, is that the United States employs so many people that not paying them, even temporarily, would have a huge impact on the economy. It might well tip the United States back into recession. Then, too, if the stalemate went on long enough, politicians might have to choose between paying Social Security recipients and angering the bond market. And no one can be sure what choice they would make.
Former Federal Reserve member Alan Blinder says a standoff would take a toll on U.S. credibility in the bond market. Blinder says investors around the world could get the impression that threatening a debt default is now part of partisan politics in the United States.
Mr. ALAN BLINDER (Former Member, Federal Reserve): That can't be good. That cannot be good for maintaining our position as the A-plus-plus, number one debtor in the world, a position we've held for a very, very long time.
ZARROLI: Like a lot of people, Blinder believes Congress will ultimately resolve the debt ceiling dispute. The risk is that investors will be left with the nagging suspicion that U.S. government debt isn't quite as safe as they once believed. And that would have an impact not just in the U.S. economy, but around the world.
Jim Zarroli, NPR News.
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