MELISSA BLOCK, host: This is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News. I'm Melissa Block.
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It doesn't sound like a fair fight. New York City is one of the culinary capitals of the world, and Trenton is the capital of New Jersey. But out of Trenton comes a serious new challenge to New York: a new campaign laying claim to the oldest pizzeria in America. It should just be a matter of math, right? Just count the years in operation. But as NPR's Joel Rose reports, it is not that simple.
JOEL ROSE: A Trenton tomato pie starts out like any other pizza - with the dough, which has to be flattened by hand. Then things start to get a little, well, weird.
NICK AZZARO: We put the dough out first, then we put cheese on, then we put the tomatoes on the top because it tastes better. I can tell you a lot of other reasons, but that's the basic.
ROSE: This is Nick Azzaro, the owner of Papa's Tomato Pies. Azzaro is a third-generation pie man, with the thick mustache and frizzy, gray hair to prove it.
AZZARO: Do you want to look at my crooked fingers?
ROSE: Where do you get crooked fingers from?
AZZARO: From pressing out the dough from - for years and years and years. I've been making pies ever since I was 14 years old. And I'm now 64. And I could tell you, unless there's somebody else who's going to pop up, we're the oldest pizza restaurant in the United States.
ROSE: For a while, Azzaro was happy to call himself the country's second-oldest pizzeria, after Lombardi's in New York City, which started selling pies in 1905, seven years before Papa's. But a few months ago, Azzaro's customers told him something he didn't know - that Lombardi's was closed for a decade.
AZZARO: That nullifies their being the oldest because if they're closed for 10 years, they're closed.
ROSE: But try telling that to Lombardi's.
(Soundbite of restaurant workers)
ROSE: Pizzas fly in and out of the coal-burning oven at this landmark pizza joint in Manhattan's Little Italy neighborhood. It's only the middle of the afternoon, but the place is already crowded with foodies and tourists who flock to eat at America's first pizzeria.
JOHN BRESCIO: Gennaro Lombardi was the first to put a pizzeria in America.
ROSE: John Brescio runs Lombardi's. He doesn't deny that the original Lombardi's closed in 1984, or that the current restaurant reopened a few doors down from the original 10 years later. Still, Brescio doesn't seem too worried about his competition, including the man he refers to as the fellow from New Jersey.
BRESCIO: When you call yourself the first, you got to be on target, because there's always a guy that's trying to say he was before you or that somebody else died or somebody or whatever. But my mind is really on making my pizza.
ROSE: Brescio is still making his pizza the way Gennaro Lombardi used to - in a coal-fired oven with fresh mozzarella and crushed tomatoes.
ED LEVINE (Author): Can we just have a large Margherita?
ROSE: Ed Levine wrote the book on pizza. It's called "Pizza: A Slice of Heaven." He says semantic disputes about first and oldest are nothing new.
LEVINE: Pizza lore is filled with internecine warfare and, you know, who did what. And they've been battling over these questions and these issues and claims ever since I've been writing about pizza. And that's part of the fun of pizza.
ROSE: Truth be told, Papa's Tomato Pies in Trenton isn't in its original location, either, and the coal oven is long gone. But Nick Azzaro says if anyone deserves the title of oldest pizzeria, it belongs with him in New Jersey.
AZZARO: I put my time in. I've been here since I was a kid. And I held up my grandfather's recipes and his name, and so maybe I deserve it.
ROSE: Azzaro isn't waiting for anyone to hand him the title. There used to be a sign in the window that said: You've Just Eaten At The Second Oldest Tomato Pie Restaurant In The United States. Now, the sign is back up, with a piece of tape over the word second. Azzaro says the crowds aren't lining up around the block - yet.
Joel Rose, NPR News.