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ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST:
And I'm Robert Siegel. Yoram Hazony speaks of Hebrew scripture as a message in a bottle. In his new book, Hazony opens the bottle and unravels the message and, as he sees it, it is a work of philosophy in narrative form. His book is called "The Philosophy of Hebrew Scripture," and it makes a case for a different reading of those familiar texts which Christians speak of as the Old Testament.
We can't do justice here to the breadth of his thesis, but here's one message of his: Don't think of the five books of Moses as a discrete narrative, think of them together with the books of Judges, Samuel and Kings. All those books together form a history of Israel, from the creation story to the dissolution and dismemberment of a decadent monarchy. It is a cautionary tale, an epic which advocates wariness of great imperial powers and individualism in the face of authority. Yoram Hazony joins us from Jerusalem. Welcome.
YORAM HAZONY: Thank you very much.
SIEGEL: And first, if the history of Israel was composed and edited with that message, what was the context that led its editors to think that message was so important?
HAZONY: Well, I think that the most likely thing is that we're reading something that was composed either by the prophet Jeremiah himself, maybe one of his students, or maybe it was some number of years afterwards, but in any case, the most likely scenario is that they're in exile. We're talking about people who have witnessed the destruction of their own nation, you know, something that's almost unimaginable to us. And, they're sitting in Egypt or in Babylonia, and they're trying to understand what happened and what they can learn from it. And especially, what can they write down to send to future generations?
SIEGEL: And this history, you find laden with both positive and negative examples of how the individual and the state can either thrive or do terribly.
HAZONY: Right. It's quite a long history. It begins with individuals like Abraham and Joseph, and then builds up to a people which goes about trying to live first without a state and then with a kingdom. So it's really a story that gives you almost every kind of political situation.
SIEGEL: One theme that you draw our attention to is the shepherd, the ethics of the shepherd. I want you to describe what that means.
HAZONY: Well, you remember that Cain and Abel, they're the first human beings that we're told have any kind of jobs. Cain is a farmer and Abel is a shepherd. And it turns out that this long, long narrative from Genesis to Kings, over and over again, presents people either as shepherds or as farmers. And in fact there's a whole history of conflict between them. So, all the greatest heroes in the Bible - Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David and many others - they're all shepherds.
And it's not just that they happen to be shepherds, because the Bible emphasizes the time they spend shepherding and what they learned from it. And this is kind of like a code - I mean, not a secret code, but it's a metaphor. The shepherd stands for people who live outside of society, on the hills. They make law for themselves, they seek God for themselves, and they're autonomous. It's almost an anarchical message. The farmer represents the great urban agrarian societies on the huge rivers in Egypt, Babylonia, Syria, Persia.
And the farming societies are what we would recognize today as kind of a totalitarian society. Meaning that the king made the decisions, he spoke for the gods, he paid the priests. And these were societies, of course, that had virtues, but the virtues of farming society, of these great empires, were virtues like piety, submissiveness, obedience, honoring the government, honoring your father and your mother, keeping the system going. The shepherds were people who lived beyond society. And the funny thing is that the Hebrew Bible is one very complicated, sophisticated document which holds up the shepherds as being the heroes.
SIEGEL: But, and you grapple with this problem, as you say, when Adam and Eve are expelled from the Garden of Eden, and people can no longer just live off the fruit on the trees, people are condemned to farm. Cain does as told, Abel does not. And Abel, the victim of the fratricide, he's the good guy. What do you make of the story in which there are divine commandments and the good guy is the one who disobeys them?
HAZONY: Well, I think that that's part of the new approach that I think that we really need to take to Hebrew Bible. Many, many people think that the Hebrew Bible is a book of obedience. You know, like God gives out orders and the whole point is that if you don't obey them then you're in trouble, that's the whole story. But actually, when you look at it more closely, you see that the most significant figures are actually disobedient, and Abel's just the first.
God tells Adam, go out and farm the land. That's what I expect from you. That's the punishment for your sin. And Cain does that. But Abel rebels. Abel says to himself, I don't want to do this. I don't want to spend my life trying to scratch food from soil that's been cursed. I can send sheep and goats and they'll do the eating.
SIEGEL: We should add here that as moderns, we tend to think of cities and agriculture as being opposites, but these early great cities, whether in Egypt or in Babylonia, were built on grain. And therefore, the farm and the city are, in effect, one and the same.
HAZONY: Yeah, in fact, Cain, who is the farmer, he's also obviously the first murderer. He kills his brother, the shepherd, Abel. And he also founds the first city. And the way that the Bible tells stories, that's extremely significant that the first murderer is the first person to found a city. And that means that there is, from the very beginning, a very, very skeptical view of urban life together with farming life. Cain's descendants are the ones who invent metal work, which means that they invent weaponry. But they also invent music. They're the people who create the arts. There's actually quite a bit of admiration for these societies, while at the same time seeing them, as you say, as being decadent.
SIEGEL: And to get back to that message in the bottle. When you distill that message down to its absolute core, it's telling us there is such a thing as right, that we can infer as divine. That trumps what even the people want, or what the king wants certainly. And the position of the outsider is a very virtuous and importantly ethnical position.
HAZONY: I think all of that's right. The bottom line is that the Bible introduces hope into human political affairs. What it does is it takes the individual, empowers the individual and says somewhere above you there is a transcendent God who's not controlled by the king or by the priests or by the military, a power in the world that is able to hear you and that is going to allow you to develop your understanding of what's right and of the way the world should develop. All of human history has proceeded from that first spark of hope that appears in the Hebrew scriptures.
SIEGEL: Well, Yoram Hazony, thank you very much for talking with us about the book today.
HAZONY: You're very welcome. Thank you.
SIEGEL: Yoram Hazony, who spoke to us from Jerusalem, is the author of "The Philosophy of Hebrew Scripture."
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