Copyright ©2012 NPR. For personal, noncommercial use only. See Terms of Use. For other uses, prior permission required.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

You know, some of the biggest comedies on network television have the same producer. Chuck Lorre created both "Two and a Half Men" and "The Big Bang Theory." They're seen constantly in new episodes and reruns.

RENEE MONTAGNE, HOST:

Lorre became more famous when he was publicly attacked by his former star, Charlie Sheen. These days, Sheen is gone, and you can only say Lorre is winning.

INSKEEP: He talked about his craft with NPR's Neda Ulaby.

NEDA ULABY, BYLINE: Chuck Lorre knows what'll make 12 million people laugh on Thursday night when they watch "Two and a Half Men." Then he'll make almost 17 million people laugh during "The Big Bang Theory" immediately after.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE BIG BANG THEORY")

MELISSA RAUCH: (as Bernadette Rostenkowski) So I was taking a shower this morning, and when I got out, I started to dry off with what I thought was a towel. It turned out to be Howard's mom's underwear.

ULABY: "The Big Bang Theory" was last week's top-rated scripted show for adults.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE BIG BANG THEORY")

RAUCH: (as Bernadette Rostenkowski) I had to take another shower.

ULABY: "The Big Bang Theory" is so popular, the cable network TBS built an entire strategy around airing its reruns. So how did Chuck Lorre figure out what so many Americans find funny? Lorre claims to have no idea.

CHUCK LORRE: There's an alchemy to this thing, and to presume you have control over it is arrogant and foolish. It's fraught with error. It's just - it's a mess.

ULABY: Lorre says the only way to pull off the Herculean task of running three top comedies simultaneously is ceding a little control to his writers. For example, he takes no credit for a scene in "The Big Bang Theory" when one character, a socially inept scientist, starts playing the online game "Words with Friends" with Stephen Hawking.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE BIG BANG THEORY")

JIM PARSONS: (as Sheldon) Ooh, my friend Stephen just played the word "act" for 18 points. That's right. I call him Stephen now, because I checked, and he was not OK with Wheels.

ULABY: But when Hawking dropped Sheldon as an opponent, he's comforted by a friend.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE BIG BANG THEORY")

JOHNNY GALECKI: (as Leonard) Here's the problem: You can't beat Hawking like that. He hates to lose. Everyone knows the guy's a big baby. I mean, forget the wheelchair. He should be in a stroller.

LORRE: It was a brilliant scene. I had nothing to do with it, except I laughed. These things have a life without micromanaging them, without clutching them tightly and squeezing them to death because I'm frightened that it's all going to go away.

ULABY: That's the darkness that powers Lorre's light comedy. He grew up in Long Island where he inherited a punishing work ethic from his father.

LORRE: My dad had a luncheonette, an eight, 10-stool little diner where you had hamburgers and scrambled eggs. And we'd get up at 5 o'clock in the morning and go in on the weekends and holidays and summer and stuff. So, yeah, he taught me to work.

ULABY: Lorre intended to be a professional musician, but he married young and ended up selling gifts door-to-door in Los Angeles to support his family. One day, he walked into an animation studio and thought, hey, I'll pitch a script.

LORRE: I had no idea what I was doing.

ULABY: But he sold it.

LORRE: Don't underestimate stupidity as an asset.

(LAUGHTER)

ULABY: Lorre went on to write for, produce and create some powerfully female-centric comedies, including "Roseanne," "Cybill," "Grace Under Fire."

LORRE: These were angry women who were, you know, kind of at war with various parts of their lives. So the idea was: What would happen if we created a woman who was in love with life?

ULABY: So, in 1993, Lorre and a producing partner went in a totally different direction.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "DHARMA AND GREG")

JENNA ELFMAN: (as Dharma) Shower inspector.

THOMAS GIBSON: (as Greg) Dharma, I'm going to be late for work.

ELFMAN: I'm sorry about that, sir, but I have a job to do.

ULABY: At its peak, Lorre's show "Dharma and Greg" drew 20 million viewers. But it never became the pop culture phenom that was "Two and a Half Men."

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "TWO AND A HALF MEN")

JON CRYER: (as Alan) What's going on?

ASHTON KUTCHER: (as Walden) She kneed me in the nuts.

ULABY: Lorre says he's always mindful of what's acceptable, family-friendly fare in primetime. For him, the bottom line is whatever he finds funny. And, sure, that might be a dad who's overly impressed when the mom of one of his son's friends takes off her jacket.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "TWO AND A HALF MEN")

CRYER: (as Alan) Oh, you must be Boober's mom.

ULABY: A studio audience might lose it over boob jokes and wheelchair jokes, but critics remain generally unimpressed. It's Lorre's fault that so much television comedy is low-hanging fruit salad, says TV scholar Myles McNutt.

MYLES MCNUTT: What is sort of the cost of being broad? What is the cost of trying to appeal to large audiences if you're creating these offensive representations?

ULABY: Networks, of course, don't care about that kind of cost as much as massive payoffs. And in a television ecosystem ever more independent on syndication, Chuck Lorre is basically his own food chain. The explosion of Internet and cable means endless outlets for CBS to sell his shows.

MCNUTT: You know, those characters aren't going to change. If you catch an episode of syndication from four years ago, it won't be that different from the show you were to watch on CBS on Thursday night.

ULABY: Which helps explains the magnitude of the problem last year when "Two and a Half Men's" biggest star, Charlie Sheen, started cycling out of control with rants about tiger blood.

LORRE: We were concerned that he was going to die, or someone might get hurt.

ULABY: Sheen was so perfect playing a lecherous bachelor, local stations are paying two million per old episode for reruns through the next eight years.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "TWO AND A HALF MEN")

CHARLIE SHEEN: (as Charlie) I'm a big old, bourbon-soaked cigar-huffing ass, as God in his infinite wisdom meant me to be.

LORRE: Charlie had this elegant, Dean Martin, Teflon ability to be unbelievably raunchy, and it was totally OK. It was totally acceptable. It was not ooky. The wrong actor delivering some of that material - the one-night stands and the bimbo of the week - it would have been - ugh, it would have been awful.

ULABY: Without Charlie Sheen, "Two and a Half Men" is doing fine. And it remains the second-most-watched scripted show in syndication, right after "The Big Bang Theory." Still, Chuck Lorre, a titan of network comedy, does not feel his success.

LORRE: When you go and watch a rehearsal of something you've written and it stinks, the natural feeling is: I stink. I'm a fraud. I need to go and hide. The silence is deafening, and it's a horrible experience. But it's humbling, and it happens every week. It doesn't matter how long you've done it.

ULABY: Still, Chuck Lorre has enough faith and enough ego to make vanity cards his trademark. He recently published a book of the personal musings he shows very briefly after episodes of his shows. Here, he's reading the very first one.

LORRE: (Reading) I believe that everyone thinks they can write. This is not true. It is true, however, that everyone can direct. I believe that the laws of karma do not apply to show business, where good things happen to bad people on a fairly regular basis. I believe that what doesn't kill us makes us bitter. I believe that the obsessive worship of movie, TV and sports figures is less likely to produce spiritual gain than praying to Thor.

ULABY: And, Chuck Lorre believes in moving on to bigger screens. He's recently signed a deal to start making movies. Neda Ulaby, NPR News.

Copyright © 2012 NPR. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to NPR. This transcript is provided for personal, noncommercial use only, pursuant to our Terms of Use. Any other use requires NPR's prior permission. Visit our permissions page for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by a contractor for NPR, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of NPR's programming is the audio.

Comments

 

Please keep your community civil. All comments must follow the NPR.org Community rules and Terms of Use. NPR reserves the right to use the comments we receive, in whole or in part, and to use the commenter's name and location, in any medium. See also the Terms of Use, Privacy Policy and Community FAQ.