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RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Douglas Kearney's new book of poetry isn't necessarily something you might pick up casually. It demands a lot from readers, but the payoff is worth it. The collection is called "Patter." And in it, Kearney takes his readers into a most private struggle, shared with his wife, to conceive a child. Infertility, miscarriage and, finally, fatherhood. Douglas Kearney joined us from our studios at NPR West. Thanks so much for being with us, Douglas.

DOUGLAS KEARNEY: Gosh. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here, Rachel.

MARTIN: So as I mentioned, this the collection about your personal journey to fatherhood, which was a hard one. And in the acknowledgments, you even include a thank you - I'm quoting here - "thank you to the Mrs. Giles Whiting Foundation..."

KEARNEY: (Laughing).

MARTIN: "...Who's generous award paid for the IVF procedure that made much of this book possible."

KEARNEY: (Laughing) Absolutely.

MARTIN: Which is a moment of levity in an otherwise very kind of heavy collection.

KEARNEY: Well, yeah. I mean, you know - we literally paid for the IVF procedure with some of this award money. You know, a lot of prizes and grants that artists and writers can receive - you actually have to produce something with that.

MARTIN: Not necessarily a child.

KEARNEY: Not necessarily child or, in our case, two. You know, but I wanted to acknowledge that here. Not only did I produce a book, but I reproduced, as well.

(LAUGHTER)

MARTIN: And may I ask how long you and your wife were trying to conceive?

KEARNEY: We started - well, let's put it this way. We stopped trying not to conceive around 2001. And finally getting to IVF - that was in 2009. So yeah - so we had been trying for about - what's that? - about eight years.

MARTIN: Yeah. So were you prepared, do you think, for how emotionally complicated the process would be? Had you spoken - did you have friends or family who'd gone through this?

KEARNEY: I had family who had been through a number of miscarriages. So I was expecting that there was going to be a certain level of difficulty. That it was going to be really an emotionally harrowing experience. But nothing actually prepares you for what it feels like to go through this. I mean, the miscarriage - I almost got into a fight at a drugstore the day we find out. It was just - it was just really difficult.

And even when I was writing about it, I kept trying to write something that would feel like it. You know, I tried to make it so I could write a poem that a reader would take in and they would go, oh, my gosh. That's what that feels like. And, of course, all of these things failed, because I ended up either magnifying it so much and, then, second-guessing myself and turning it into this sort of allegorical thing or, you know, just completely underwriting it or - and it was a very difficult process to deal with, just from an emotional psychological processing standpoint. Let alone to try to make some art from it.

MARTIN: So on that note, do you mind giving us a sense of what these works are like and reading a poem in this collection called "The Miscarriage: A Magic Trick"?

KEARNEY: Oh, absolutely. The miscarriage poems each take a kind of modality of performance, whether it's stage patter, magic tricks, silent film or minstrel shows, and attempt to talk about the miscarriage through that. So this is "The Miscarriage: A Magic Trick." (Reading) One, stash scarlet silks in a lady's skirt. Two, plant her among the crowd. Three, call your shill to the deus. Four, lay her on your table. Five, conceal her with your bed sheet. Six, distract the crowd with patter. Seven, apply a slight between her thighs. Eight, take hold the silks loose corner. Nine, pull till it pools on the floor. Presto.

MARTIN: They are - they're powerful poems when you read them. They are more powerful when you hear them. It is such a complicated subject and so private.

KEARNEY: Yeah.

MARTIN: Hardly anyone talks about this. And the male perspective is even more rare to hear.

KEARNEY: Yeah, yeah.

MARTIN: May I ask you to read one more...

KEARNEY: Certainly.

MARTIN: ...Poem from the miscarriage collection actually? This is "The Miscarriage: A Bar Joke."

KEARNEY: Excellent. "The Miscarriage: A Bar Joke." (Reading) Two guys walk into a bar. First guy says, yo, guy, why so down? Second guy replies, my wife just had a miscarriage. First guy says, I know exactly how you feel. I just had my girl get an abortion.

MARTIN: Little different experience.

KEARNEY: Yeah. Variations of that happened to me twice.

MARTIN: Really?

KEARNEY: Yeah, yeah.

MARTIN: Variations how? People said things like that?

KEARNEY: Yeah, yeah. I had two male friends, on two separate occasions, take me out after the miscarriage. And each one of them talked about a girlfriend. One had had his girlfriend get an abortion, and the other had been worried that she might be pregnant, but it hadn't taken. And I mean, at the time, you know, there's this huge mix of feelings of, like, this anger of, like, how dare you compare your not wanting a kid with my wanting a kid.

And so there was that, but there was also this real thing, which is - how are men supposed to talk about this? What are we supposed to say to each other when this happens? And I didn't think of it ultimately as a purely gross miscalculation. It really was this attempt that - you just have to laugh about it later. I mean, this poem, in particular, took a while to get to because there was a lot of anger. And that was what was coming out in those earlier versions of this poem. And I wanted it to be a little less like I was throwing these guys under the bus for really actually trying to help me. But we just didn't have the tools.

MARTIN: You had twins.

KEARNEY: Yes.

MARTIN: But you allude to the possibility of other children in a poem called "New Parents." I wonder if you could read that?

KEARNEY: Absolutely. "New Parents." (Reading) Pick through your blood, but you won't find what must be done with the others. The ones in ice, where you belong. Choosing worries you, in its mounds. Lose them to strange names and houses, board them ever in dear freezers, or let them thaw and spoil. Those you've chosen doze under wool. Think of all the night's cool siblings. Take them hand-in-hand and lead them down the bleak rounds to your judgment. And when their cries rise through night's slab, driving you, beset, against their cribs, do they grieve for those whom they have lost? Or what they must have? Your eyes burnt with love. Your teeth keen on silence.

MARTIN: It is such a strange thing, isn't it? That part of the process and the associated grief. Is that the right word?

KEARNEY: I think so. I mean, with IVF - I mean, if you end up having a lot of eggs, you know, the doctor will fertilize them all - attempt to fertilize them all. And after you've had a success, you suddenly have to have this question of, like, well, what do we do with the other ones? And there's not a rule of what you are supposed to do. And you know these are full siblings. It's not half. It's not potential. They are their siblings. And one day, we're going to have to explain that to them.

MARTIN: And you will do that?

KEARNEY: I think so. I mean, I think that they should know a bit about what it took to bring them here. That they are special, you know. That we wanted them so badly, and here they are.

MARTIN: Well, it's been a pleasure to talk with you. Douglas Kearney - his new poetry collection is called "Patter." Happy Father's Day, Douglas.

KEARNEY: Thank you so much, Rachel.

SCOTT SIMON, HOST:

And we send our love and congratulations to Rachel and her husband, Luke, and their son, Wyatt, on the new addition to their family. And, of course, best wishes to all fathers on this Father's Day. And thanks to Elise Lena.

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