Departing Congressmen Wary of Bipartisan Trend
After decades on opposite sides of the political aisle, retiring Reps. Martin Sabo (D-MN) and Sherwood Boehlert (R-NY) sat side-by-side recently at a Washington Nationals baseball game. They tell Debbie Elliott the atmosphere in Congress has never been so partisan.
DEBBIE ELLIOTT, host:
This is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED from NPR News. I'm Debbie Elliott.
Unidentified Announcer: Good evening and welcome to RFK Stadium, home of your Washington Nationals.
ELLIOTT: RFK Stadium is just two miles from the U.S. Capitol Building, making it a draw for lawmakers, lobbyists and Hill staffers. On a recent spring evening the Nationals are playing the Cincinnati Reds.
(Soundbite of fans)
ELLIOTT: We're here with a couple of congressmen who are baseball fanatics. Minnesota Democrat Martin Sabo and New York Republican Sherwood Boehlert have come straight from the House floor. This is their last season here. They're both retiring at the end of the year. Combined, they've served more than 50 years in Congress. Sabo is a Twins fans. Boehlert loves the Yankees. But tonight, Sherry Boehlert says, they're pulling for the same team.
Representative SHERWOOD BOEHLERT (Republican, New York): Well, here's one thing we thing we can agree on. We're down four to two, and we want to get the Nationals some runs.
Representative MARTIN SABO (Democrat, New York): We want the Nationals to score some runs.
ELLIOTT: So, Congressman Sabo, I understand you're the coach of the House Democrat baseball team.
Rep. SABO: And now retired as coach, too. I've been involved in that baseball game for 27 years.
ELLIOTT: How did the team do?
Rep. SABO: That's a bad question.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Rep. SABO: You know, the problem we have, which we were doing very well in the early '90s. Then you had that Republican Revolution in '94. That meant they brought young legs, young arms, young eye. So we tried to compete with maturity. We have significant more maturity and experience on our team. And we've been able to sneak out a couple of wins since '94, against great odds of all these young arms, and legs, and eyes.
ELLIOTT: What does that say about Democrats?
Rep. SABO: We elect people who know something.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Rep. BOEHLERT: We elect people who know how to make a hit.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Rep. BOEHLERT: That's why we're in the majority. But, you know, as we're saying...
Rep. SABO: And that's why they have trouble governing.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Rep. BOEHLERT: But...
Rep. SABO: Keep trying.
Rep. BOEHLERT: Baseball is a great equalizer, though. There's one thing that Marty and I agree on, one of many things because we're good friends of longstanding. But baseball is a great equalizer.
Rep. SABO: That's right.
ELLIOTT: You know what's interesting is that both of you, having been there, you're 28 years and you're 23, years Congressmen Boehlert.
Rep. BOEHLERT: Twenty-four.
ELLIOTT: Twenty-four years. And you're 28 years, Congressman Sabo? Is that right?
Rep. SABO: Uh-huh.
ELLIOTT: So you started in the majority. Now you're in the minority. And you're the other way around.
Rep. BOEHLERT: Yeah, I've had 12 and 12; 12 in the minority, 12 in the majority. In the minority, it's a lot easier and a lot more fun. In the majority, it's a lot harder and a lot more rewarding.
ELLIOTT: You agree?
Rep. SABO: Yeah. No, I agree with that.
ELLIOTT: Marty Sabo and Sherry Boehlert both talk of the great change they've witnessed in Congress over the years. Republican Boehlert says he's never seen a higher level of partisanship, and a lower level of tolerance.
Rep. BOEHLERT: You know, Marty and I know each other. I mean, and we played golf together. We've done, socialized together. There are young members of both parties, right now, who can't really say they know somebody in the other party. Oh, they know their names and their faces. But they don't know their wife's name, or what makes them tick, or who their favorite team is, or how many kids they've got. But there's something wrong when we move in a direction we have been moving. And I'd like to see it reversed, hopefully after this next election.
Rep. SABO: So many things have changed. The workweek is shorter. Most people are in and out of town quickly. When I came most people moved their families here, and that's rarer now. Rare. And so it's strange. And society has changed. Society is more polarized and that's reflected in Congress.
ELLIOTT: Do you think that's what's driving the increased partisanship in Congress?
Rep. SABO: I think it builds on itself, all of the things.
Rep. BOEHLERT: The advent of special interests, I think, has been a major contributor on all sides to the equation.
ELLIOTT: What do you mean?
Rep. BOEHLERT: Well, when I was a young staff member, and then a junior congressman, and Marty was, too, I mean there were always lobbyists in this town, there are always going to be advocates, and some of them are paid to do their job. But the proliferation, there are thousands of them today. And that tends to have people think in one dimension, and not take a broader view.
Rep. SABO: You've got to be the knight in shining armor and you're going to defeat the devil. Whether you're a group or an individual, and people have got to be, stay pure for whatever it is, or -- and the political process is where you come -- different values and different sense of values. But then you try and find pragmatic solutions to problems with that coalition of values. And I think they answer before they figure out even what the problem is.
(Soundbite of fans)
ELLIOTT: The Cincinnati Reds hits a deep fly to left field and Nats outfielder Alphonzo Soriano misses the catch.
(Soundbite of booing)
Rep. BOEHLERT: Oh, Soriano. That's two big wins he needs. Just one run scored. They both scored?
Rep. SABO: Yeah, they both scored.
Rep. BOEHLERT: I wonder why they don't have him at right, rather than left? Oh, that was -- he looked pathetic on that one. A $10 million man.
Rep. SABO: Yeah, baseball has changed just like Congress over the years. You know, when I was a young kid, the same, you know, a guy like Cal Ripken was the rule, not the exception. Playing one club your entire career. Look at DiMaggio and Williams and Musial. But today, a journeyman player is probably on his fourth team.
ELLIOTT: Money is also a big factor in Major League Baseball today, much like it is in Congress.
Rep. SABO: They make more than we do.
Rep. BOEHLERT: Yeah. You know, the biggest change I've seen is pressure on members to raise money. And it's intensified. And it's not for their own campaigns. It's to contribute to other candidates, to contribute to the caucus. And that has just fundamentally changed. And...
Rep. SABO: More and more, you know, you're expected to meet demands of the party. You get a quota. Both sides have them. You know, you've got to raise like a quarter of a million dollars to give to somebody else. And that's not an easy chore. And so we spend far too much time on that and not enough time on making policy. I've never been one to dial for dollars.
(Soundbite of fans)
Rep. BOEHLERT: A few moments ago, it was boos. Now it's cheers.
Rep. SABO: Yeah, I know.
(Soundbite of laughter)
Rep. BOEHLERT: Same guy.
ELLIOTT: Is this the guy who was out in left there?
Rep. BOEHLERT: Yeah, that's the leftfielder,
ELLIOTT: This was the guy who was out in left field>
Rep. SABO: Alphonzo Siriano.
Rep. BOEHLERT: Yes.
ELLIOTT: Redemption.
Rep. SABO: Yeah, exactly right.
ELLIOTT: Here's one last question and we'll watch baseball. Public trust in Congress is at a low. What do you think needs to happen for public trust to be restored, Congressman Boehlert?
Rep. BOEHLERT: That's a tough because I think it's going to be very hard for the public trust to be restored, because I'll tell you what happens. Every now and then, some guy comes along, like Randy Cunningham, who's in jail where he belongs. But he was a colleague who misused and abused the system to the maximum degree. And unfortunately, I'm afraid there are far too many people say, Well, they're all like that. And my response is no, we're not all like that.
I just think Americans are just cynical as a rule about people in public office. So I don't they're going to do any -- there's no magic formula to change that. I think they're going to retain that cynicism.
Rep. SABO: I really think the Congress is not nearly as good as its individual membership. And the challenge of leadership in the institution, across both parties, is to make the Congress reflect the totality of abilities that exists there.
(Soundbite of baseball crowd)
ELLIOTT: Democrat Martin Sabo will be a regular at Minnesota Twins games after he retires at the end of the year. You'll likely find Republican Sherwood Boehlert at the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York, when he's not watching the Yankees.
And by the way, the Reds beat the Nationals that night six to five.
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