Trial Under Way in Italy in Extraordinary Rendition Case

ALEX CHADWICK, host:

The Los Angeles Times reports that it has identified and located three pilots accused of flying terror suspects for the CIA in the program called extraordinary renditions. It's a key part of President Bush's war on terror. The program captures suspected terrorists and takes them to countries where they may be tortured under interrogation.

Last week in another extraordinary rendition case, an Italian judge indicted 25 suspected CIA agents and a U.S. Air Force officer. They're accused of kidnapping and Egyptian cleric.

Stephen Grey is that author of "Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Torture Program." He's also a regular contributor to the New York Times. He joins us by phone from an airport in Germany.

Stephen Grey, what do you know about these three people named by the Los Angeles Times?

Mr. STEPHEN GREY (Author, "Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Torture Program"): Well, these are all pilots. And they're pilots who worked for a company - or still work for a company - in North Carolina called Aero Contractors.

That has been one of the principal front companies - aviation companies - used by the CIA to carry out its program of extraordinary renditions.

And these pilots appear to be the pilots that actually carried out a rendition of a German citizen from Macedonia in Eastern Europe to Afghanistan. And they're among 13 people that are actually facing arrest. There were arrest warrants issued in their name from magistrates in Germany.

CHADWICK: Would these arrest orders have power here in the United States? Are these people actually likely to be arrested?

Mr. GREY: I think it's pretty unlikely they're likely to be arrested in the United States. The arrest warrant has no legal authority unless it's accepted by the U.S. government.

But obviously, as pilots it would certainly impact on their ability to work and to carry on working for the agency.

It's a significant step, obviously, that such serious charges are being brought. It declares quite a major CIA program to be illegal. And it's some very serious prosecutors and magistrates who are making these allegations on an important U.S. ally.

CHADWICK: Last week, Stephen, the European Union issued a report on this that accuses a number of countries - Britain, Germany and Italy - of ignoring these CIA flights. Is that indeed a practice of these countries, of complicity?

Mr. GREY: Most of the countries involved in Europe deny completely that they were in any way complicit. But the evidence collected by European the parliaments, the evidence that I've collected myself, shows that most intelligence agencies in Europe knew that this practice was going on.

They cooperated quite extensively in the sharing of intelligence, which was used for the rendition program. These planes that were used for renditions were traveling in great numbers through their country. And sometimes agents of those countries went on board those planes.

And in the case in Italy where, as you know, 25 CIA operatives and a military officer have been indicted for kidnap, or a rendition, Italian intelligence officials are also charged with kidnap. And there's evidence there that's quite strong because it involves confessions of some of the Italian officials involved that they took part in at least the preparation for that rendition operation - in other words, that the operation, the kidnappers received political approval in Italy.

CHADWICK: From the Italian government.

Mr. GREY: It certainly appears that way. One of the people indicted is the former head of the Italian military intelligence SISMI. He's called Mr. Pollari.

Now he answers directly to the prime minister. And the prime minister at the time of his operation was Silvio Berlusconi. The fact that the evidence points right up to the top of the intelligence agency does very much suggest that Mr. Berlusconi is likely to be implicated as well.

CHADWICK: Stephen Grey is author of "Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Torture Program," speaking with us from Germany. Stephen Grey, thank you.

Mr. GREY: Thanks a lot.

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