Examining N. Korea's Refugee Network
Laura Ling and Euna Lee, the two journalists who were held by North Korea, have responded in an op-ed to criticism of them from some South Koreans who work with North Korean refugees. Tom O'Neill, a staff writer for National Geographic Magazine, talks about the network of people helping North Korean refugees.
NOAH ADAMS, host:
From NPR News, this is ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I'm Noah Adams.
ROBERT SIEGEL, host:
And I'm Robert Siegel.
The two Current TV journalists, who were held by North Korea, have issued a statement in the form of an L.A. Times op-ed page article. Laura Ling and Euna Lee write that, while they did cross a frozen river from China into North Korea, they were on North Korean soil for less than a minute and they were firmly back inside China when North Korean soldiers apprehended them.
They also respond to criticism of them from some South Koreans who work with North Korean refugees. Ling and Lee were at the China-North Korea border to film a story on North Korean refugees, especially trafficking in North Korean women.
Tom O'Neill of National Geographic has been to the same region. He's reported from there. And he's seen some of the Chinese safe houses that the South Korean critics now claim have been compromised. And he joins us in the studio. Welcome.
Mr. TOM O'NEILL (National Geographic): Hi. Thank you.
SIEGEL: First, what did you make of the statement, the op-ed article by Laura Ling and Euna Lee?
Mr. O'NEILL: Well, I've sympathized with them and it's been such a dangerous job they undertook, an important subject. I think they're trying to keep the story alive, which I agree, not their story, but the story of the defectors.
SIEGEL: These are defectors, very often for economic reasons, people impoverished in North Korea. And for them, the best way out, with the assistance of South Korean activists, who operate very discretely, I gather, is to get out to China.
Mr. O'NEILL: Yes. And I can say from being up there that Laura and Euna were dealing in a very murky world, which is full of smugglers, brokers, missionaries and you don't know who to trust. And I think they just got caught in that web.
SIEGEL: Now, they mention the South Korean minister, the Reverend Chun Ki-won, who was an important contact for them.
Mr. O'NEILL: Yes.
SIEGEL: They write this: We were surprised to learn that Chun spoke with reporters publicly in the immediate aftermath of our arrest. Among other things, Chun claimed that he had warned us not to go to the river, that is, not to the border. In fact, he was well aware of our plans because he had been communicating with us throughout our time in China and he never suggested we shouldn't go. How important a figure is Reverend Chun for journalists who want to work this story?
Mr. O'NEILL: Well, he was big for us - we had spent a year trying to find someone to help us do this story. And only reluctantly did he do it. We had a lot of ground rules, not to show faces, protect names. I will say, from my experience, he was very cautious, even reluctant, don't draw attention to our self and protect the people. And I think Laura and Euna had that same instructions.
SIEGEL: Yeah. There have been complaints in South Korea, I gather, in blogs and elsewhere that after the two Current TV journalists were taken into custody, within days, some safe houses for the Korean defectors, where they had filmed, were shut down. And the accusation was that they'd been careless with their video.
They write this: In the early days after our confinement, before we were taken to Pyongyang, before we were taken to the North Korean capital, we were left for a very brief time with our belongings. With guards right outside the room, we furtively destroyed evidence in our possession by swallowing notes and by damaging videotapes.
Mr. O'NEILL: My feeling, and it was quoted in my story, the Chinese know everyone that's working there. I think there are invisible lines to cross. We lived in fear every day that we would get nailed. And…
SIEGEL: You mean, in some way, if you were not discrete enough, that could lead to the Chinese cracking down on the North Korean defectors in China.
Mr. O'NEILL: Right, and sending them back to North Korea. I have a feeling crossing the river to the border just made all rules off. And, again, from my experience, they could've been betrayed, lured into a trap. Was there just some money deal that they got involved with nasty, black-hearted people? I don't know.
SIEGEL: Were you tempted when you were there to cross the river?
Mr. O'NEILL: Never. I was scared from speaking with defectors, knowing what North Koreans can do. I had spent 10 days in Pyongyang and seen just the kind of culture they have and the xenophobia. It wouldn't have been worth it. The defectors can tell you what it's like. I guess I didn't feel the need to. Of course, you never know. You trust your guide and the guide said, I've arranged it. I can't speak for - who knows if I would've been tempted. But when I was there, no way.
SIEGEL: Tom O'Neill of National Geographic, thank you very much for talking with us.
Mr. O'NEILL: You're welcome. Thank you.
Copyright © 2009 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.
Accuracy and availability of NPR transcripts may vary. Transcript text may be revised to correct errors or match updates to audio. Audio on npr.org may be edited after its original broadcast or publication. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.