In Uganda, a new anti-gay law calls for life in prison for those who are convicted

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Uganda has passed one of the world's most severe anti-gay laws. Under the new law, anyone convicted of engaging in same-sex relations could face life in prison. And if someone is convicted of so-called aggravated homosexuality, they could even get the death penalty. That's defined as same-sex relations involving HIV-positive people. Joining us now to talk about the implications of this new law is Richard Lusimbo, an LGBTQ activist based in Uganda.

RICHARD LUSIMBO: Good morning...

FADEL: Good morning, Richard.

LUSIMBO: ...And thanks for having me on the show.

FADEL: Thanks for being here. I want to get your immediate reaction when you heard that this had been signed into law by the president.

LUSIMBO: It was a moment of distress, but also of utmost shock. I was worried and concerned, the fact that this really takes away from the progress of protection of human rights as a country.

FADEL: What does it mean for the LGBTQ community in Uganda?

LUSIMBO: It now means that it's official to be criminalized, but also to physically be attacked, both physically and online. But also, evictions are now going to be normalized. Also, false claims against the LGBT community members are going to increase, and so is blackmail and arbitrary arrest, given this law.

FADEL: Are you concerned for your own safety?

LUSIMBO: Absolutely. It's a concern. Homophobia has been taken to the grassroot level through the weaponization, especially through religious leaders and politicians who have been pushing the notion that homosexuality is about recruitment of children, which is totally wrong and a misrepresentation.

FADEL: The bill received widespread support in parliament. Does it also have popular support?

LUSIMBO: I would say that that's a big misrepresentation of the Ugandan society because the politicians did not give the whole truth why they were passing or pushing for this bill, because the tagline was to protect our children and to protect African values. But if you look at the law, it has nothing with the protection of children. It has nothing about values. But rather, it pushes for criminalization of consenting adults and LGBT people just because they love differently.

FADEL: Is there outside influence in promoting anti-LGBTQ attitudes in Uganda?

LUSIMBO: Yes, absolutely. There's been a lot of influence from evangelicals from the United States who've been pushing for anti-LGBT notions in the country.

FADEL: Now, experts say the new law threatens Uganda's AIDS response. Do you agree with that?

LUSIMBO: Yeah, no, absolutely, because we have seen the fact that it has a broader and vague language, it puts even businesspeople, even any individual who may be visiting the country under LGBT. And I think that makes a lot of sense for people to be staying away from the country. But also, different countries that are providing aid, they wouldn't be willing to support a government that is criminalizing its own people. But, of course, the taxpayers will also be demanding answers. And I think this is where we find ourselves as a country, in a very tight and peculiar situation because of this legislation.

FADEL: Richard Lusimbo is an LGBTQ activist in Uganda. Thank you so much for your time.

LUSIMBO: Thank you so much for having me.

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