Trump's Jan. 6 pardons have historians concerned about tolerance of political violence

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

People who followed President Trump's campaign were not surprised to see him pardon nearly all of the people convicted of crimes in relation to January 6. For some historians, the move sends a troubling signal about tolerance for political violence over the next four years. NPR's domestic extremism correspondent Odette Yousef has been talking to some of them. Hi there.

ODETTE YOUSEF, BYLINE: Hey, Ari.

SHAPIRO: President Trump repeatedly promised over the last four years to pardon people who were held to account for their roles in January 6. What is the significance of his actually keeping that promise and issuing the pardons?

YOUSEF: So in the run up to the pardons, Ari, I spoke with Ruth Ben-Ghiat. She's a historian at NYU, and she studies strongman leaders. And she said that in the past, pardons like these have been part of an authoritarian playbook.

RUTH BEN-GHIAT: Mussolini and Augusto Pinochet and others have routinely pardoned people before they start new phases of a crackdown. And that frees up adjudicated criminals for service in the party and service in government or to be the foot soldiers of the future.

YOUSEF: So I'm not saying, you know, here that the U.S. is 20th century fascist Italy or Chile, Ari, but historians do see this as a warning light. And during a Q&A this week, a reporter asked Trump if leaders of the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers have a place now in the country's political conversation, and his response was, quote, "we'll have to see."

SHAPIRO: Monday's inauguration was a peaceful transfer of power. Have you spoken to people who think concerns about political violence may be overblown?

YOUSEF: Well, you know, it was peaceful. But, you know, nobody that I've spoken with, you know, leading to the election expected to see another January 6. You know, the concern about political violence now is different from what it was before. You know, now it's a much more localized and regular feature of daily life in America. You know, we see these periodic surveys that are showing that in the last few years, intimidation, threats and worse against teachers, librarians, election officers, you know, all of that has been elevated.

SHAPIRO: And how are organized extremist groups responding to these pardons and commutations?

YOUSEF: Well, Enrique Tario of the Proud Boys said today on a far-right news interview that success during this administration will be, quote, "retribution." And the former Oath Keepers leader, Stewart Rhodes, also said he's expecting the administration to exact, quote, "payback" for his and others' prosecutions. Now, those two groups, you know, they've both changed a lot in the last four years. They're weaker. They're less centralized. But now they're experiencing a boost, and even other groups are emboldened. You know, there are reports of KKK chapters dropping anti-immigrant flyers in Kentucky this week. So there's lots of energy around the alignment of extremist group agenda items with Trump administration priorities, and perhaps none more so than on the topic of immigration. We're even seeing some of these groups voicing hope that they will be deputized to carry out removal operations.

SHAPIRO: That's NPR domestic extremism correspondent Odette Yousef. Thanks a lot.

YOUSEF: Thank you.

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