Are Zimbabwe's Gems 'Blood Diamonds?'
MARY LOUISE KELLY, Host:
ANNIE DUNNEBACKE: Hello.
LOUISE KELLY: So let me start, Annie Dunnebacke, by asking if you could paint a little bit of a picture of Zimbabwe's diamond riches.
DUNNEBACKE: So we've been very concerned about the human rights situation there. And, of course, about what that means for these diamonds reaching international markets.
LOUISE KELLY: And I know that Mugabe's government would argue that any action it's taken is to protect its interest and stop illegal mining. Do they have a point there?
DUNNEBACKE: That does tend to be the argument used. You have to question it. You have to wonder whether the way to deal with informal minors is by killing them. Obviously, the answer for us would be that it's not. The other ironic bit of information in this whole story is that a couple of years ago when these diamond fields were discovered, the government took them over from another foreign company that held the rights to the fields initially, and the government essentially invited citizens in to come and pan for diamonds because they knew that that was the only way they could have the capacity to get the diamonds out of the ground. So, you have the government inviting people in a few years ago, and now cracking down on minors.
LOUISE KELLY: Zimbabwe, of course, would like to be able to sell these diamonds and profit from them. There is the Kimberley Process. This is the international process for certifying diamonds as being conflict free, and that's the meeting that you were at recently where government officials, human rights group, diamond producers all participate. What happened at that recent meeting?
DUNNEBACKE: We had an impasse. We had a situation where consensus was not reached to allow Zimbabwe to export diamonds from Marange. So the outcome of that is that Zimbabwe is not allowed to export.
LOUISE KELLY: Now I understand Zimbabwe is threatening to go ahead and sell its diamonds whether or not it gets approval from the Kimberley Process. Can it go ahead and just do that?
DUNNEBACKE: Zimbabwe did threaten at the meeting in Tel Aviv to reinterpret the decision of the meeting and decide that the Kimberley Process had allowed it to export diamonds. They haven't yet started exporting. We don't know whether they will or not, and we very much hope that the government of Zimbabwe will respect the decision taken by the Kimberley Process and will not defy it.
LOUISE KELLY: Well, because I suppose at stake here is what happens in Zimbabwe, but also the fate of the Kimberley Process itself. If it's setting rules that can't be enforced for its members, does that weaken the process overall?
DUNNEBACKE: Absolutely. It calls into question the integrity of the Kimberley Process, its credibility in the eyes of consumers, and it sends a terrible message to all the other countries that are trying to implement the minimum requirements and the rules. It basically sends the message that if you don't follow the rules, that's okay.
LOUISE KELLY: The key issue here, or one of the key issues would be: How do you define what counts as a conflict diamond or a blood diamond, as they're sometimes known? Under the current definition, as I understand it, Zimbabwe would not be counted.
DUNNEBACKE: There is a debate around definition. The definition used by the United Nations and, by extension, the Kimberley Process, is very narrow and points to conflict diamonds being diamonds mined and sold by rebel groups, so, you know, non-state, armed actors. This very much goes against the principle of why and how the scheme was set up which is to prevent the worst types of human rights abuses and violence funded by diamonds.
LOUISE KELLY: Annie Dunnebacke, thanks so much.
DUNNEBACKE: Thank you.
LOUISE KELLY: Annie Dunnebacke is with the human rights group Global Witness. And the Kimberley Process will meet again tomorrow to decide if Zimbabwe's diamonds should be classified as blood diamonds.
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